When we had the fuel protests in the UK a few years ago the Government was shaken by the effects and the strength of feeling and sympathy the fuel protesters were shown, but things have moved on over the last week, the fight now is not only about the extortionate amount of tax we are forced to pay on our fuel, it is about our right to be able to drive and own our cars at all.

This spineless lot of politicians we are cursed with all seem to have caved in to the scaremongering bleatings of the green lobby and their latest hysteria about so called climate change, note that it used to be global cooling with a second ice age imminent, then it was global warming , then they covered al the angles and called it climate change just to make sure any of their crackpot theories fitted the latest buzzword.
Sad to say that all the mainstream political parties seem to have been suckered in by these snake oil salesmen who for the main live in London and never NEEDED to own a car because they never get out of the London underground area, their anti car crusade has naturally been seized upon as the next big revenue raiser for tax crazy Labour under the excuse of environmental protection.

We will (UNLESS we start to make a bigger noise than the greenies) see road pricing, higher fuel costs and all except the wealthy few will be priced out of their cars and back to queueing for a bus in the rain!. Just think about it for a minute, you will not be able to nip out for that item you forgot,you will be tied to bus timetables to get around , many would not be able to get to work (remember we live in a 24 hour society now) not everyone starts at 9 and finishes at 5, many of us live many miles from where we work.

The idea of being robbed of our RIGHTS to mobility is too awful to contemplate, yet this is what is going to happen IF the greenies get their way. We are sleepwalking into a way of life that died out over 50 years ago, IF global warming does take place nothing we do in our Island will make the slightest difference to the outcome.

We are supposed to be responsible for 2% (and falling) of the world CO2 output and transport is responsible for a small percentage of that 2%, and that is transport as a whole! (cars, aircraft, trains busses, ships) so our cars in fact have next to no impact on worldwide CO2 levels, yet the greenies try and make out if we were all forced out of our cars in the UK everything would be ok! what a pack of lies!!.

The truth is that these greenies have always been anti car and now they think they have found an excuse to bully us out of our hard won and hard worked for freedoms. The media is awash with these people and their propoganda, we are being softened up and brainwashed by their constant bleating, there are many scientists and experts who disagree with the greenies but they are not given the same oppotunities and TV and radio airtime to tell us their theories because the government does not want us to know the truth, (that would not be as good for revenue raising).

The only way to stop this threat to our freedoms is by convincing the politicians that it will not be in their interests to support these anti car measures, and the best way to convince a politicin is to let Him/Her know what the price of backing anti car policies will be at election time!.

Turkeys DO NOT vote for Christmas , if they think they will be voted out they might just have the common sense to realise that it will not be in their interests to tax us out of cars, BUT we cannot afford to leave this until the next general election we need to start right now, BOMBARD your MP with e mails and letters telling them not to back any more anti car measures get all you families and friends to do the same, let them know the strength of feeling in the country about these disgraceful proposals warn them they will be looking for a job after the next election if they do not start to take notice and defend our rights to mobility.

If we all make a big enough noise we can still defeat the threat that is looming, after all a few hundred thousand yobs defeated the poll tax (which was a whole lot fairer tax than the anti car taxes we now face) so imagine what we could acheive when MILLIONS realise the impact that these measures would have on their liberties,freedom to travel and way of life if WE allow them to be implemented.

WE can fight and stop this, but we ALL need to act before things go too far down the pan
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Edited for punctuation (to satisfy the pedantic among us).

Ooo Oooo....you just fell one short of a 200 word sentence:}

Dunno, I like buses, trains and trams.

Almost as much as I like paragraphs.

A few more paragraphs in there would make it much easier to look at and encourage people to actually read what you've written. It's obviously very important to you but people are going to take one look at that solid block of writing and just hit the "back" button because your post looks like a lot of hard work to get through.

It's an interesting subject so put a few spaces in there and encourage folk to read it. :ok:

or maybe just one big space :}

I saw not in there somewhere.;)

If the buses ran at convenient times, and to convenient points then I would have,
However I live 12 Kilometers from where I worked - normally about 8 minutes in the car - by public transport at least two hours with a 1 k walk at either end. Thats if there even was a bus service at the time I wanted to go to work e.g. 0600 on a Sunday morning.
Chicken and egg situation. Nobody uses the bus because the schedule is inconvenient and the schedule is inconvenient because nobody uses the bus.

so our cars in fact have next to no impact on worldwide CO2 levels
Of all the guff above, I managed to select this as a good quote to focus on.

Overlooking the air pollution aspect of driving, what about the congestion aspect? Our road network only has finite capacity which in many areas has been reached.

The complaint, if anything, should be about the lack of a suitable alternative. Buses and trains are improving slowly, yet the quality and capacity of the services are not. And as for the cost, if I and my wife wanted to travel the 230 miles to visit my parents tomorrow, we'd drive becasue it is far and away the most cost effective method.

It is not all about the green issues, it is also about common sense. Sadly, the politicians focus on trying to make the car problem go away without providing a decent alternative.

All this cack comes from a government which drives it's ministers round in
4.2L Jags and 4.6L V8 Range Rovers. The old 'do as I say, not as I do' method, mmm interesting. Maybe I should trade in my cancer causing diesel Disco for a petrol Rangie and I can be like a Westminster politician, hurrah!:rolleyes:

Well lets start by reducing the amount of unnecessary people first rather than cars.

Out go all the asylum seekers and other freeloaders.

Should reduce the population by a few million overnight.

Wouldnt hurt to get rid of a few other useless freeloaders who are here legally either so out with the politicians too.

We ought to work on making public transport an attractive proposition, rather than seeking to coerce people to use it; i.e clean ,efficient, comfortable and affordable would be a good start.

We would all do well to remember that the environmentalsts have more than one "Anti Christ", if they had their way, many of us in the aviation world would not need a car to get to work because we would not have jobs to go to!!:sad:

i.e clean ,efficient, comfortable and affordable would be a good start.

I'd settle for a route that get's me where I want to go at the time I need it to. But alas, no bus company will run it.

Oooh, just had a thought, couldn't we burn the environmentalists in our power stations? Think of the pollution we'd prevent by not burning coal!:E

I drive just under 45 miles each way to work. I live here because of my previous military service, I was posted here, to a place where the government could not provide housing so I had to buy my own. I have tried to sell my house in the past. Despite reducing the price drastically the sale fell through. I now travel because there are no civilian jobs closer to where I live. To move to a similar sized house closer to work would cost me £1,000 per mile, according to the government's own housing cost statistics (borne out by practical research on my part).

I would love to use public transport, however it must be available at all hours of the day and get me to and from work and back again in order to allow me a reasonable rest period. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist.

So I need my car in order to work, I don't see it as a luxury item.

Unfortunately it already costs me a huge amount of money, most of which goes to the government coffers. Why should I be taxed ever more heavily on it, so they can claim to be "green", in a further attempt to earn votes and keep themselves in a job so they themselves can use transport far less environmentally friendly than my own? Who are they kidding?

A few months ago, the local bus operator drivers went on a one day strike.
The papers were predicting gridlock and chaos. Guess what? The opposite happened, and the roads were busy but kept moving. When you see these bendy-buses or mega long single deckers blocking junctions, stopping every 400 yards and forcing all traffic behind to wait for them to start again, cutting 50% of the usable roadspace on key commuter routes for bus only lanes, spewing particulates into your lungs as you sit behind them, and to add insult to injury finding that most of them have only a handful of passengers outside the rush hour.

Buses are the single biggest impediment to urban traffic flow.
We have a choice, go back to the austerity days of public transport, or adapt our personal mobility to maximise efficency. The uneasy halfway house as exists today is clearly wrong. Big one-up 4x4's and MPVs mixing with under utilised buses and the rest.

I would far rather see buses trimmed right down to minibus size for the infirm or elderly to have priority use.

For the rest, encourage cycling, ban large vehicles completely from town centres. Instead of Park & Ride, how about Park & Cycle?

Think about your average provincial town, if everyone drove little Smart type vehicles, and many switched to bikes. Buses were cut back to minibus size, bus lanes abolished, and commercial vehicles were banned from urban areas in rush hours. Flexible working time were made more widespread, Kids were compelled to walk or cycle to school etc etc.

Big urban areas have complex issues beyond this simplistic thinking, but the likes of my little home town applying blinkered me-too 'car bad, bus good' thinking is typical lemming-like jobsworth council policy in action.

Maybe one good lesson we could learn from buses is that we could try putting that 'Sorry I'm full please try another' sign up at immigration, and cut down on the number of ants crawling over the already crowded landscape.

Anybody travelling on a 'bus over the age of 30 has been a failure in life. Some dispute over who originally said it .... but it wasn't me!

'bus over the age of 30
Now why would I be a failure in life because I travel on a 'bus over the age of 30?
I am quite happy to pilot a 'plane that is over the age of 30 :rolleyes:

Sell your car and buy a double decker bus, then at least you can say you take the bus to work.:p
Parking might be a pain, but you can blame it on the polititans, they told me to use the bus.

Time to use the politicians words against themselves as they do.

M.

Another demo in London yesterday a reported(probably a lot less 25,000 noisy greenies "demanding" action. You will be able to multiply that figure by a factor of 10 with the majority of the population demanding a stop to the anti car / anti flying, tax it all bullsh*t these clowns preach when people wake up to the fact that these greenies want us all off the roads ,out of the skies and back into the dark ages

Despite the fact that, I would dearly like to use public transport wherever possible, frankly sometimes it simply isn't feasible and never will be.

A recent report by MP's finally came to the staggering conclusion that bus deregulation has, er, failed. It's only taken them 20 years to come to this conclusion however---showing how perceptive and in touch with reality they are :rolleyes:

If you want a classical example of how it all goes for a can of worms, have a look at the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_deregulation

Would public transport work to alleviate congestion ? Only if the operators were compelled to provide a genuine service with quality vehicles, not the wrecks you see spewing fumes out as is the usual case---and faced severe financial penalties for not doing so----and the chances of any enforced regulation to ensure this are about the same as hell freezing over of course.

Planestupid environmental protests going on today (5th) and tomorrow, possibly targetting Luton, Stansted and City.

This idiotic minority are accelerating their agenda at a frightning pace, power station invasions, rallys and disruption at airports all in less than 7 days, these anarchists need clamping down on, hard and quickly!!. We must defend our rights and freedoms from these naive, foolish Luddites

want us all off the roads ,out of the skies and back into the dark agesNot really, I just want you and your selfish me me me attitude off the road and skes. As for the dark ages it's your selfish me me me attitude that will rush us headlong there.

[paragraph break]

You don't have a right to drive your loud smoky fumebox in the ten square miles where ten million other people live any more than you understand how to use paragraphs.

[paragraph break]

I'll tell you what. Come and cry on here when they issue a compulsory purchase order of your house because they need the land to build another congested road or a useless car park :yuk:

This relates to the global warming thread. The unfortunate thing is that most of the people who own cars and take loCo flights are also the same people who believe 'something must be done about global warming'. Sheeplike they will accept any restriction on their lives to 'save the planet'.

There is strong move afoot within certains circles to push things back to the time when only the rich could travel abroad. Everyone else made do with two weeks by the seaside in a B&B if they were lucky. Flying was for the privliged and the businessman. Bring back Imperial Airways and PanAm! Cars were also the province of the well off. The rest of us made do with bicycles and the omnibus. Food was mostly local and seasonal.

All of this is to be enforced by taxation. Low cost airlines, cars, imported food etc etc. Naturally enough taxation is the worst vehicle for social change but do politicians ever learn. I doubt it.

What you fail to realise is that my loud smoky fumebox (busses are a whole load smokier ban them??) pays for your benefits and handouts (and the many others like you) who are too busy interfereing with progress and trying to impede taxpayers mobility to actually go out and work for an honest living.

Motorists already pay extortionate amounts of tax which is not reinvested in the road network. Air passengers alrady pay tax on flights.

We should not pay another penny in tax to fund a fiscally incompetent government who are jumping on the bandwagon of dubious science as an excuse to bail themselves out!

Not this one (http://www.legrandchalon.fr/6/vie-pratique/195/le-plan-pouce)


and it's free I tell you. Free

First bus past my place - 09.35

Last bus - 16.35

I live on a remote "A" classification road eight whole miles from Manchester town hall

The council where I work has just outsourced the department where I assist on an agency contract, and they are going to move to an industrial estate three miles away from the other council departments.

Please will someone tell me how to square this with using public transport and cutting the need for road space, as I am becoming somewhat bemused.

Tried to go to Leeds last night to see Barclay James Harvest at the City Varieties - had to drive to Huddersfield as the line was closed over the hill during the day, and when we came out the train had turned into a coach. Makes you glad to travel by rail I tell you!

But BJH were exceedingly good - just like thirty three years ago!

Tried to go to Leeds last night to see Barclay James Harvest Buses don't travel back in time you know.

Buses don't travel back in time you know.

They don't? I swear to God the last time I took a bus it did.:p

Public transport will never work outside of London well enough to get people out of their cars, and thats the problem. Most of the environmentalists want to force a London solution on the rest of the country and it just will not work.

The private car has brought freedom and mobility to the masses just as cheap flights allow the masses to travel to places they previously could only dream of going to.

The current hype about CC is a heaven sent opportunity for the government to hide behind dodgy science and biased opinion in order to hike taxes and make us think it is for our own good, and that is exactly what is happening

I do not want to be taxed to the point where I cannot afford to drive or fly and for that reason alone I am truly worried about the impact that this current hysteria over CC is causing

I suggest a few more of us should worry too and maybe start to act to defend our freedoms before this goes too far

There are 4 buses a day where I live. A good solid 35 minutes walk to the nearest bus stop, and I'd need two buses to get to work. Mrs radeng could not even get to work on public transport......
What has not been recognised is that if people aren't to live on top of their job (and many can't, because we no longer have either an agricultural or industrial economic system that will allow that for the majority), public transport is not available or is at the wrong time or will take such an excessive amount of time that it isn't practical.
About 20 or 30 years ago, the problem was supposed to be another ice age because of particulates in the atmosphere reducing the amount of solar radaition reaching the earth. Maybe we've cleaned up too much.....Or is the science wrong?
Of course, we can always cut back on industry and travel. This means that we'll also have cut back on the available money, so we'll not have the cash for health care or education (and definitely not for overseas aid)....and the country will close down.
I still question the effects of the sun spot cycles....

The problem is that by not challenging the biased assertions of the Greens sooner we have allowed them to gain a much louder voice than their numbers actually represent, and in this era of stealth tax the government will encourage their hype in order to tax us more.

Ah, one of my pet peeves. I live 2 miles fom the nearest bus stop. There is one bus in each direction that goes into my nearest city, to the city at about 7.30 a.m. and from the city at about 7.00 p.m. (last time I looked). From the city I need to then take an underground train and then a regular bus service to cover the last 8 miles or so. That means it would take me about 2 hours to get to work and 2 hours to get back using public transport and my own little, fat legs. I can use my car and be there direct in 25 minutes. Who's kidding who?

Now for my parents. A mile and a half from their nearest bus stop, on bus every 2 hours, they are in their 60s, one has diabetes and poor eyesight and the other has arthritis in the knee. So let 'em walk to the bus stop and back (when it's dark at 4 p.m.) down winding country lanes, stand in the peeing rain, or snow, or sleet, or ice. And get on a bus that passes occasionally.
I repeat. Who's kidding who?

While ever you have rural communities that are catered for so poorly, forget it.

40 years ago, there was a train service every 30 minutes and a shuttle bus to meet it at the station. Now THAT was service. THAT was acceptable. THAT was easy and convenient to use. (oh but trains used to pollute, too, didn't they?)

We've taken such a backwards step in the last half century that it is, quite frankly, unbelievable.

The greenies are quite simply jealous and somehow want to take it out on society for the time daddy didn't buy them a pony when they were younger :}

They can't stand that everyone's ignored their 'artwork' on the wall of the main school corridor and why they're still the victims in life and somehow we're all nasty. Oh dear I feel it's just a case of growing up into the real world rather than being a life long hippy/student/eco-whatever....

Only last night some moron on the London news who was part of the 3rd eco-loony regiment chained themselves to Easyjet's office in a bid to oppose Heathrow expansion (though the fools didn't realise that (i) EasyJet don't fly from LHR and (ii) it wasn't Easyjet's head office). Regardless the point is that when interviewed the pratt was asked when he last used an aeroplane and he said 18months to go to his brother's wedding! Of course his brother had to have the wedding in India and of course that was crucial for him to attend ... moron :confused: He further went on to say I looked into other methods of travel but there wern't any that were affordable of course not, does he know how long a camel takes to travel that far!

We got rid of our second car as it wasn't worth replacing. I do tours and most of the time I catch the bus to Heathrow from Luton. It's not ideal but it's cheaper than a second car. Checkers uses the car every day he goes to work as there aren't any buses etc to the airport.

I also have a motorbike (400cc) for fun and planning on getting another. :E

I fly for a living too. :ok:

We generally take the train into London and our neighbour does too. She commutes but it does make for a long day for her.

Pollution does need to be dealt with. Global warming? Just another scare to keep us all in line and pay more tax. Just like the war on terror.

Buses are the single biggest impediment to urban traffic flow.


I have an idea - since the driver has to collect the fares, the buses have to stop far too long thus hindering efficient traffic flow. How about putting another person on the bus to collect the fares? Then the bus would stop for the minimum amount of time at each stop. Anyone else reckon it might work?

Alternatively do away with fares.

Alternatively do away with fares.
Today 18:50


Actually for intents and purposes in London I think they have G-C.

Lately when I have gotten on a bus in London nobody and mean nobody checks to see if I have a ticket.

I overheard some rather scruffy looking kids talking about how they never buy tickets.

I remember from my days as a youngster the ticket takers that stood on the back of the good old double decker's. Trust me, if you didn't have the fare they would box you around the ears. They didn't care if you were a confused young US kid.

Now in the country they were a bit more tolerant of of young confused Yank kids. Actually very nice and went out of their way to help.

When I was 12 through 14 between the tube and busses there was not a lot of London I did not explore. Don't know if one would let a youngster do that today, anywhere, not just London.

Sad really.

Wanna get people off the roads? Easy

Make the alternatives convenient, frequent and cheaper and people will make it their choice. Take me as an example if I wished to travel via say bike and public transport from Rimmer towers to work… It is possible… but it will take around twice as long and cost two and a half times as much…. so guess what?

I take the car.

Even if the fuel and other taxes were increased to bring the relative costs to parity – it’d still take twice as long and involve changing train twice

…so nope still with the car….

What if there were a faster, frequent more direct rail service with say only one change for the travel time was about the same (reopen a few of the lines Dr Beeching closed and it might be possible) and further this service only cost what I’m currently paying for the car?

Look out its train time…

To recap, make it convenient, make it frequent make it cheap and people will use it


Not rocket science is it?

For my next trick, I’ve got a plan for easing the water crisis in the south east….

Everyone complains on a message board, but nobody writes letters to the PM. I find that baffling amongst everything...

:hmm:

I doubt Tony has time to read letters, he's too busy saving the world.

I do, however, write to my MP.

The more people that do, the more chance that these "representatives"of the people might listen and stop these idiotic proposals:ok:

I could write to my MP but given that he's Francis Maude I don't imagine Tone will listen to him either.....:ugh:

Someone a way back said "Buy your own bus"

We did - twenty six years ago - and the day after I brought it home Mme Lexxity made her appearance

Next year - once I get it repaired after the fire, her sprog - young Leo will be getting in on the act - yours truly driving by the way

http://www.sharpos-world.co.uk/coppermine/albums/myfolders/Road/terallies/onslow2005/bus/Can38090.jpg

heaven forbid that we are compelled to use the bus more... my recent experience was dreadful;

Landed in LHR from Miami at 0615h last saturday... I needed to get to Strawberry Hill; After a reasonable trot to the central bus station I thought I might enquire about how to do this; so I asked the chappie sitting at the information desk; "sorry mate, can't help, this is National bus only". So I went outside (1°C mind you!) and worked it out for myself. Bus #285 to Hatton Cross and then #490 to Teddington ought to do it:)

25 freezing minutes later up turns a #285 bus and on gets your truly with a crisp tenner in hand; "Sorry mate, exact money only" says the driver... "but you have lots of change" say I, "I've just seen lots of people give you GBP1.50, do you take cards?"... you can prolly guess the response!, so off I get and go to WH Smug to see if they'll break a tenner for me... you can prolly guess the response there too. Turns out the cheapest thing they sell is a pack of chewing gum (49p, thanks for asking), followed by another 15 min wait.

Eventually I get to Hatton Cross, and go the the undergroung station to change another pound coin into 2 x 50p; and when i come out the #490 was just pulling away from the stop. Fortunately (so I thought) he stopped 20' later at a red light,, so I trotted up and tapped on the door - "no chance" says the bloke behind the wheel... a few anglo saxon words later and another 15 minutes I eventually got another bus and walked the remainder of the way. Oh, and another thing... why is it that all bus drivers seem to have two modes of driving? Hard on the throttle and hard on the brake...

It's fecking unbelieveable :ugh: and what on earth a non-native would make of the whole process on a first visit to Blighty would make of it I shudder to think. A classic example of putting the customer last iI think!

If you really want to see how controlled and benefical--:yuk: public transport is up here in "Right on, PC Manchester"----have a look at the latest little spat.


http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/227/227771_bus_wars_warning_as_rivals_facing_fines_over_gridlock.html

And sod all will happen of course.

Few years ago we lived in a village and needed find public transport for our kids to school, twelve miles away. They could get into town, to meet another bus which would take them to the town where the school was. Timetables seemed quite compatible and they only had to cross the market place to get the second bus. No problem? WRONG!

Even when the first bus was on time, the second bus often left early, leaving the kids stranded five miles from home and late for school. On other occasions the driver refused to let the kids on the bus, saying it wasn't a school bus (there was no school bus), despite them having an advance weekly ticket. We complained to the bus company but they denied this ever happened.....

We tried the train instead. The village has a branch line railway station. We could get the kids to school but not home again at a reasonable time because the trains didn't stop. We asked the railway company if they could arrange for ONE train to stop at a suitable time. They said it wasn't possible, for timetable reasons. I pointed out that it actually made no difference to the time at the next stops - it was there in print on their timetable! The answer? "Sorry, stopping the trains to pick up passengers upsets the train set"

I was totally stumped by that answer, especially as the company claimed not to be making enough profit. I asked if they were playing trainsets or providing a service..... I got no answer! I wasn't very surprised to hear that Arriva North (but not stopping at a station near you) lost the line franchise not too long after that.

I avoid public transport whenever possible because it's become a bad joke in this country, especially if trying to get somewhere on time. The UK has become little better than third world in this respect, in addition to the other so-called "public services" we now suffer. :(

The UK has become little better than third world in this respect

My experience of travel in the 3rd world is that public transport is very good at getting you from A to B (OK, maybe a bit noisy & smelly), since most people don't have an alternative.....

The third world at least has lots of public transport and it will stop at each and every point. It's reasonably reliable in terms of the timetable so if you want to leave A to get to C via B then no problem, it is possible somehow. We can't accomplish this in the UK simply because the current regime isn't actually governing just turning up to work and warming the seats in Parliament. All these services such as the buses and trains have descended into a farce and it really didn't have to be that way. Scheduling and efficient running of buses is no harder than the operational problems faced in other industries. Induce lax management that probably don't deserve to be there (i.e. promoted to fulfill some kind of quota in terms of 'diverse' employment or X numbers of social/academic loosers getting a job, etc) along with equally arrogant bus drivers and you get the detrimental effect.

Labour the culprit again.

Labour the culprit again.

I agree entirely, but the problem now is that all the mainstream politcians of all the main parties have been conned and seduced by the Greens into believing that taxing drivers off the road and travellers out of the air is a vote winner!.
We must convince our MPs that they will be voted out of office if they persist in trying to take away our mobility by road pricing/taxing, and legislating us off the roads and out of the skies.

Just wonderin'

What your story demonstrates is that you were unprepared for and unfamiliar with London Transport. That's not unsurprising as it can be extremely complex first time even to people who live inside the UK but outside of London.

For instance next time you should take a tube to Hatton Cross and not a bus. Turn up with the correct change, as you need to in Miami, because they don't give change there either.

Not that Miami has a decent public transport system in the first place to compare with London, I am sure when you travelled to Miami airport it was not on a bus. The 490 you complained about runs many times an hour and it's not a big deal to wait 10 minutes, though I do realise waiting patiently is not a very American thing :)

It's a lot easier to knock London transport than make it better. On the whole it works very well indeed. It's in the provinces where public transport needs to be vastly improved in order to get people out of their cars.

Slim,

you are correct, I was unprepared and unfamiliar with the bus system, but I did follow the instructions gioven to me by the airport information people in T3. Having said that I commuted into London for 12 years before moving to Brussels.

However, I'm not sure that is a particularly good excuse for the poor customer experience. If exact change is required then why is that not clearly spelled out at the stop (where I could have prepared for it) and why are there no change machines located in the vicinity of the bus terminal? Notwithstanding that, I know that the fecker driving the first bus had change as I saw a bag full of pound coins and 50p's that previous passengers had given him. There are rules and there is stupidly obstructive bureaucracy, this was an outstanding example of the latter.

As it happens I am a UK native, even if I don't live there presently and it was a fecking trial for me to comprehend the situation... my experience was at one of the world's busiest International airports no less. Goodness knows what a newcomer without good language skills would make of the situation.

I'm sorry, it is not an excuse to say that someone unfamiliar with the system should be penalised... the system may work well for those who have an oyster card, or those that use the system regularly and know what to do, but it was well nigh impenetrable for a native who was unfamiliar with the system and the level of 'service' was positively prehistoric.

As for Miami, you are correct (partly). I took a rental car from the airport, but the bus driver who took me from the terminal to the rental depot was courteous and polite, stopped at the nearest safe place to pick me up (even if it was not a 'proper' bus stop) and drove the vehicle in a smooth and comfortable fashion. Getting out of and back into Miami was a 'mare on the other hand.

I think the main message from my experience has already been made; if you want to coax people out of their cars the alternitives have to be;
- practical
- cost effective
- easy to use
and, to a lesser extent, comfortable (as a long term commuter I understand that this is not necessarily always possible).

Next time I won't take the bus (or a tube and a bus). I'll pre-book a minicab; it was more expensive (20 quid to the airport), but far quicker, much more comfortable and, overall a more pleasant experience.

That's what public transport has to overcome... I'm prepared to spend 7x as much to reduce the agony, so it is not just an economic argument, it's the package.

Ah yes, the perils of pubic transport!

Let me see now, a few years ago I worked in the terminal at MAN. Anyone from the green lobby care to tell me how I get there for a 04.30 start by public transport when I live 10 miles away??

Today I work in the middle of a large industrial estate. I start at 07.30 and clock off at 17.00 (Anytime now in fact). By bus I would need to take 2 of the things at about £2.50 per leg in each direction. Total price £10 per day. It costs me that a week for petrol in my car, and oh yes, by bus I would have to leave at 06.00 and would not get home before 18.30, how then oh green pratts do I collect my daughter from a kids club that closes at 18.00?

We are already excessviely taxed in this country, I flew MAN - LHR rtn with BMI last year, ticket price £18, taxes £42!!!!!!!!!!

To go shopping in my local town centre that is only 1.5 miles away would cost over £5 on the bus return, it costs a teaspoon of petrol and £1.50 for a car park.

The maths is easy for everyone to comprehend. I would like to use public transport, but I have little choice whilst it is dirty, unsafe, unreliable and grossly overpriced. Because there is always the delight of being mugged on the top deck. Again this is an issue where the government look at the effects and not the cause. Yes the effects of our public transport system, for what it is, do put more people in cars and that perhaps does need to be addressed. However, the answer is not upping taxes to drive people onto the buses and trains, the answer is to ensure that those providing the service do so properly, at a fair price and servce those that don't happen to live along side a "transport corridor". MAKE PT available to all, then a tax rise on cars is justifiable as there is a real alternative, but at the moment there isn't.

As a thought I was recently in Edinburgh on business and got talking to a taxi driver, who was telling me that they don't have a lot of cars about there, as the buses are frequent and well priced, by order of the council. Result, everyone takes the bus. He was shocked when I told him that it costs £2.50 to travel into my town centre, and suggested that in that fair city an equivalent journey would be about 10pence. At 10p I would take the bus all day long. This government have again lost the plot, and come the glorious day brother I will pay good money to see this shower tied to the back of a bus naked and pelted with rotten fruit!

MAKE PT available to all, then a tax rise on cars is justifiable as there is a real alternative, but at the moment there isn't.

But why any tax rises on cars??
If PT was a viable alternative and more available then more people would use it and therefore less would use a car ,there is no need to raise anyones taxes unless the the truth of the govts latest anti car scam is about revenue raising and not climate change as they are trying to make out.
The British taxpayers must be the softest bunch in the world to put up with the never ending tide of government thievery we are subjected to!

Could it be that when a government has no real answer to the problem, they increase taxes on the symptoms?

I can sympathise with Just wonderin'.
Some years ago now (although post de-regulation) I arrived at Nottingham Railway Station to attend a meeting in the suburbs (too far to walk). I entered the bus-station adjacent to the train station and enquired which bus service would take me to my destination. There was no central information office, but several independent 'stands' with buses of varying livery lurking. Approaching each in turn revealed that their franchise didn't service my destination, nor were they able (or willing?) to suggest which did, or where their stops might be located. :ugh:
Eventually, I set off to walk and waited at successive bus stops until a bus arrived and then quizzed the driver until I eventually happed upon one which would take me to where I wanted to go.
Competition is all very well, but visitors don't stand a chance of operating the system. :{

Every time you see an irritating greenie on the tele, or hear of protests of the kind that closed East Midlands airport, get your own back:
Leave your television/cdplayer/playstation on standby permanently.
Change all your energy saving light bulbs back to the full fat ones.
Boil a full kettle for one cup of coffee.
Use a hosepipe where a watering can or bucket would do.
Run a nice hot bath instead of a quick shower.
The possibilities are endless!
It will only cost you a few pence but think of the satisfaction.:E

The trouble is that these irritating :mad: greenies are starting to call the shots,which is why we all need to start getting on to our MPs, before the greenies become unstoppable

The third world at least has lots of public transport.......if you don't mind riding on the roof. :uhoh:

Looks like Red Kens crusade to get everyone herded like cattle onto disgusting public transport has moved up a gear with his disgraceful plan to up the congestion scam (sorry charge) for some vehicles to £25 a day.

This is just the start, when he and his bunch of non driving greenie sidekicks manage to price bigger cars off the road, they will start on the smaller ones, and they will not rest until we are all using public transport just like the 1940s

The rest of the Greedy Lefty councils countrywide will try and do the same, and an opportunist government will rub their greedy hands together at the thought of all that lovely extra tax

Public transport is probably the best example of where an unregulated service reigns supreme. I endorse previous posters in that third world countries have "take you where you want" infrastructures that we in the "developed" world could learn from.

Rules, Signs & Uniforms... our downfall. :sad:

Public transport - a tale of woe.

Last Saturday the family Lexx arrived into Southampton from New York. To get from the Port to Central station we had to take a cab. There is no alternative. Upon arriving at the station along with several hundred other passengers and their luggage we discovered that the lift to the bridge across the tracks was out of order. The Southern Railways employee just shrugged his shoulders when we asked how we were supposed to carry one baby in buggy and six bags across? Luckily a very nice Southern Railways employee turned up and helped us get our bags up the stairs. We then waited in the shabbiest waiting room I have seen and watched other trains come and go.

The first train was for Waterloo, which had a lot of passengers waiting for it. As you can imagine a lot of our fellow passengers were taking this service. Oh, except they weren't because it was already "full and standing". Why don't they lay an extra service on when the biggest liner in the world docks?

I then needed to change Leo, the changing room was locked and I was supposed to go and find an employee to open it. No one around. Not even in the "Duty Station Mangers" (sic) office. So I had to change him on my knee.

Our train wasn't until 1:15pm so we saw several services late or cancelled due to varying excuses, at least two of thes were due to staff shortages. Our Virgin Voyager turned up on time and nice and clean. We decided to pay the weekend upgrade to 1st. Glad I'm did because the 5 car set was full by Birmingham where a sea of humanity was waiting to get on an already overcrowed train.

Will I use the train again? No. Next time we are driving back.

Guess how much the bus into my local town centre costs? £1.20 for about a mile and a half and then the driver tells you off for bringing a baby on and not walking! And they have put the fares up twice in under a year!

I once took the bus to work (Manchester airport) it took TWO hours. It takes 15-20mins in the car.

I do try and use publice transport but the cost and incovienience isn't worth it.

Looks like the silent majority have just been given a voice, they will get my vote!!www.thecarparty.org.uk/index.html

Mrs p-k-b and I are wanting to get from Reading to Nottingham for the day in January - we're flexible on the day but not the month. The cheapest fare so far found is 110 quid each!

The station in Reading is not convenent but we thought we'd do our bit for the environment plus "let the train take the strain" so we can have a drink or two whilst we're there.

But at that price, it's just not feasible! It's absolutley barmy. So back to the polluting car we go, then!

Ms. Lex,

Looks like Southampton hasn't improved since I arrived at Central Station thirty-eight (eeek!) years ago as a new undergraduate.

Get off train, only an hour late, find bus stop, see bus, ask conductoress (remember them?) 'Does this bus go to Shirley?'

got the response 'itgorrabluddysixonnafrontainit?'

'Yes, but does it go to Shirley?'

'CorsitgosetabluddyShirley, sgorrsbluddysixonafrontainit?'

To be sure the bus did eventually get to Shirley, but it went the pretty way, all round the town in some great circle, later I used to catch it, or the 4 which went the other way, just to while away some time!.

VnV...

These are just revenue streams for a near bankrupt government. The green agenda has no proof of their so called 'cause'.

Like one of my fellow ppruners mentioned earlier once they've taxed and shafted one set of cars off the road then they'll begin with the next. I've said it before and I'll say it again they're jealous of people who have something in life and want to regulate us all to the same level in their perverted sociliast utopia.

Has anyone even asked where this tax revenue is going to go and what it's going to be used for. The UK is rapidly becoming a laughing stock of the global community and soon they'll be benefit concerts overseas for the "good people of the UK"

Probably need a few £ billion to fund the overspend on the 2012 olympics:ugh:

I love travelling by train. But - last trip into London with family:

Train: £77, could not travel before 10am approx 1hr journey plus walk and changing onto tube. Oh yes, plus £8 bus fare to get to the station and back, so that makes £85.
Car: £30 including 6 hrs parking 100yds from destination, petrol, wear & tear, convenience and comfort of travelling door to door.

Not a big incentive to use public transport.

I also have a 50 mile round trip to work. No public transport at the right times from my village, and I work on a call-out rota. Not many buses about at 3am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogie-nicey
The third world at least has lots of public transport....

...if you don't mind riding on the roof.

OK, the third world at least has lots of air-conditioned public transport.....

I also have a 50 mile round trip to work. No public transport at the right times from my village, and I work on a call-out rota. Not many buses about at 3am.
The problem is that these idiot greenies think that public transport is an acceptable alternative.They have no comprehension of how many people work some sort of shift pattern, if you live outside London you are b*ggered for transport late at night or in the wee small hours.

The government have gleefully pounced on an opportunity to hike taxes yet again, only this time they will really screw the country and its all based on dodgy theory and anti car hysteria

This petition is trying to get the government to drop the road pricing idea scam I don`t suppose they will listen, but if you care about your freedom and right to travel when and where you want to without being taxed to death, then every extra name might help :ok: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

One is off to watch the Ulstermen demolish London Irish in two weeks at Reading and managed to get train tickets from Temple Meads to Reading for 33 sovs return (and that's for two of us). One is most delighted, for it would cost one a bit more in the Disco and one can spend the difference on some Nigerian lager at the ground. And no, it won't become a habit.