The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

[scroggs]

The original (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144926), 75-page*, 1515-post CTC Wings thread was getting a bit unwieldy, so I've closed it. The signal-to-noise ratio was not good either, with far too many people posting social trivia and making it difficult for others to extract useful information from the thread. For those searching now, you'll probably find all you need in the first 10 pages of the original thread. After that, it becomes a never-ending succession of 'I'm on XX intake, anyone gonna meet me in the bar?' type posts. Useless.

So, hard rules from now on. If your post does not give useful information, it will be deleted.

Scroggs

*depending on browser and screen settings.

[Flik Roll]

Start a CTC social thread?

[scroggs]

No. This forum is for the exchange of aviation-related information, not for social trivia. PM, e-mail, instant messaging, even the bloody phone can be used for social chit-chat. It will not be allowed here.

Scroggs

[swisspilatus]

Hello mates,

Will be at CTC end of November for stage 2, I believe I roughly know what tests to expect but how does it work exactly ?
What do you start with & how do they incorporate additional tests ?
By the way, how many tasks do u have to manage in the end ? (other than joystick ?) How long does it last for ?

Thx for kind replies, cheers & let me know if you are in the area !!
Pilatus

[scroggs]

I take it you chose not to refer to the original 75-page, 1515-post thread on the subject that was linked to in the first post on this thread?

Some days are harder than others. :ugh: :rolleyes: :hmm:

Scroggs

[Streety]

Seeing as there are so many people who can't be bothered to make the effort, I thought I'd trawl through the old thread and pull out some gems. The following links are full of useful tips and advice. If the answer isn't in there, then it probably isn't that important.

Stage 2 - Pilapt (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2733121&postcount=950)

Stage 2 - General (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2708650&postcount=904)

Stage 3 - General (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2793026&postcount=1155)

Stage 4 - General (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2769376&postcount=1080)

You will notice that there is no link for any Stage 1 info, because if you haven't got the initiative to fill out an application form without someone holding your hand, then you're probably not what CTC are looking for.

Good luck to all who apply.

Streety.

[MonarchA330]

Scroggs,

Is this thread for the CTC Wings Cadet Scheme (for those with next to no flying experience) or the CTC Wings ATP scheme (for those with a CPL/IR)?

The selection and requirements are quite different so maybe an idea to differentiate between the 2.

M330

[Sagey]

The selection for the Wings course for stage 1,2,3 is the same regardless of whether it is cadet or ATP. Some of the links posted above are relevant to anyone thinking of applying to CTC.

Everyone has to take pilapt and everyone has to do, if successful with the pilapt, an interview and group exercises. Of course questions in the interview will be directed at your flying experience and own life experiences.

Where things differ is stage 4. Cadets get a sim ride. The ATP stage 4 is the Airline Qualification Course.

[scroggs]

Scroggs,
Is this thread for the CTC Wings Cadet Scheme (for those with next to no flying experience) or the CTC Wings ATP scheme (for those with a CPL/IR)?

M330

CTC Wings Scheme (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144926&page=102&pp=15&highlight=ctc) the original, 1500+ post thread

The CTC ATP Scheme Thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94832)

The CTC Holdpool (ATPers) (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239054)

CTC AQC (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207453)

Is that all clear for you? Any more searches you'd like me to do on your behalf?

Scroggs

[bjkeates]

Scroggs, ignoring your rather biting sarcasm for a minute, the reason I believe MonarchA330 brought up that point is because CTC Wings encompasses both the Cadets and the ATP schemes; i.e. ATP is also a part of Wings.

The point being made was that the title of the thread is a little misleading (yes, I know it's always had that name but the point might as well be raised now). If this particular thread is to be assumed to only apply to the Cadet scheme then it should be named "The CTC Wings Cadets scheme thread" - that way people interested in the Wings ATP course will know not to post there because it doesn't apply to them. Calling it the "Wings" thread doesn't make that distinction.

[scroggs]

OK, fair enough. As the original thread seemed not to cause any confusion, I was happy to leave it as it was. However, I'm happy to change it if you feel it's necessary. As for 'biting sarcasm', I'm just a pussycat today. Try me when I'm p+ssed off and tired!

Scroggs

[farfadet]

Hello, i'm new in this forum, and first i want to say an HELLO to everybody!
I've already read the CTC scheme thread.
But, i'd like to know if i fail in the CTC cadet selection, could i apply (sure after pass my CPL) for the ATP selection?

Thanks

[Rj111]

Word of advice to anyone going to stage 2. Don't go to bed too early!!!!

I've just got back from my phase 2 but i haven't got a yay or nay yet. However, the day before yesterday i went to bed at 11:30 and got up at 7:00 alert and ready, perfect. Last night i went to bed at ten, when did i get to sleep? Probably about 2:30. Up at 7:30 that's 5 hours sleep. I was absolutely knackered! Basically i wasn't tired when i went to bed at 10 and as i was lying in bed my tiredness didn't increase. So i lay there all night growing more anxious by the minute. And the more anxious i got the harder it was to sleep.

As the pilapt test came around and my brain felt heavy. I dunno how i've done but if i failed it will be dissapointing, as i'll never know whether i could have passed had i done my best. Fingers crossed, but i'm preparing for the worst.

It was a great day though and the best of luck to everyone else who was there today.

Edit: I'm delighted to say that i've passed. What a relief! I really thought i had funked it.

[Rj111]

Sat down to think about what to do to prepare for stage 3 for next month, which began by trawling through the part 1 thread again. So i've started reading the ins and outs of the partner airlines to a very detailed level, and ordered an interview book specifically for piloting jobs. I've also applied for a few jobs just to try and get some interviews as i've never really had a proper one.

I have had no flying experince, just a worrying obseseeion with the industry. Would it be worth my while getting one lesson before i go to the interview?

[Flik Roll]

I guess it would be - It would give you an insight into flying for a start and also what the basic function of the controls are. You might even find you hate it :} Good Luck

[captain_murray]

Hi,

Does anyone ahve any experince of stage 3 for the second time?? I have it next week and was just wondering if anyone know if there is any difference between this and the first attempt e.g is it run with stage 3 first timers or is it all second attempt applicatnts? any ideas of the success rate?. Any advice would be much appreciated

Thanks

Murray

[rusty_y2k2]

I have had no flying experince, just a worrying obseseeion with the industry. Would it be worth my while getting one lesson before i go to the interview?


I know they say no flying experience is necessary but when you are sat around the table at the start of phase 3 and they ask you to introduce yourselves and say how many hours you have you might feel like a bit of a plonker if you haven't even set foot in a plane for a lesson!

I would really, really recommend getting at least a couple/few hours - First of all, you know you like the idea of flying but what if you actually don't particularly enjoy the physical flying itself? You'll either find that it ignites your passion for flying, which will show in your interviews, or that maybe flying isn't everything you thought - either way it's something worth finding out!

It'll give you a bit of first hand knowledge to answer questions with, and who looks more committed and motivated - the guy who turns up with 0 hours or the guy who turns up having paid off his own back to try and at least get a taste of flying?

[Rj111]

Iyou might feel like a bit of a plonker if you haven't even set foot in a plane for a lesson!


Personally I'd be proud I'd made it to phase 3 without ever stepping foot in a plane for a lesson.

Thanks for the advice though, i may well take a trial lesson beforehand. Even though it's really not compatible with my current financial structure.

[ezy_3]

RJ111

It might not be within the scope of your present situation to have a lesson, however all it takes is an extra few hours here and there at work to afford it. However, having had financial troubles get in the way of my flight training, I know what it can be like!
After my first trial flight, I couldn't afford any lessons but kept going and hanging out at the flying school watching the aircraft/talking with instructors on the observation deck - as a result I was able to take a number of 'ad-hoc' back seat trips... (caution it becomes dangerously addictive!)


Good Luck!

:ok: ezy_3

[rusty_y2k2]

Thanks for the advice though, i may well take a trial lesson beforehand. Even though it's really not compatible with my current financial structure.

I really would recommend it, even if it's in an ultralight aircraft like a eurostar EV...

If I remember correctly you can get an hour long introductory lesson for under £90-£100 in one of those - and they are quite fun too!

If however you can go the full £130-40 ish then I can wholeheartedly recommend White Waltham which is within reach of you (it's just off junction 8/9 of the M4) - great instructors, atmosphere, and lovely Piper PA-28 Warriors.

[Rj111]

Alright, alright you've twisted my arm. Bloody hell! :}




















:)

[gliding777]

Personally I'd be proud I'd made it to phase 3 without ever stepping foot in a plane for a lesson.

Thanks for the advice though, i may well take a trial lesson beforehand. Even though it's really not compatible with my current financial structure.

To add further thoughts:
On our course, some 'short' ie had PPLs, some of us were 'long' ie no PPLs. Of the latter, two had a couple of hours' experience flights. I had no powered experience to my name, just gliding. One had done a degree in aerospace engineering.
Long and short of it is, you do not need flying experience, nor do I think it will gain you a massive advantage (though it will do absolutely no harm whatsoever) in the selection stage. All you need is to prove your motivation, be it through getting a PPL, working in the industry, gliding/UAS, or maybe family connection. Yes, if you go for a trial lesson you will get a feel for flying. But what if the weather's bad (will put you in good stead for NZ mind!;)) and you don't enjoy it? Remember too that you won't be in a light aircraft forever, the 757/737/Airbus handles a bit different to a Katana!
To summarise, my feelings are that if you can prove a motivation to the job, commitment to study and determination to succeed that will stand you in good stead for the interview. Just my tuppence worth, use or discard as you feel appropriate!

[rusty_y2k2]

While I agree that it isn't something that passing all the phases is contingent on, would you not consider it almost "necessary" to at least have had a single trial lesson before embarking down a career that requires you to take substantial financial risk and investment of time? I wanted to be a lawyer for quite some time, and as far as I knew I absolutely wanted to do it... a month or two of work experience in various firms showed me that I absolutely did not.


Anyway, just to give this post a bit more value, would it not be safe to say that if it is at all within your means a minimum of a single trial lesson would be recommended? I personally believe that beyond giving you a tiny taste of flying it also lends everything you say in the interview about why you want to fly that little bit more authority. Rather than saying "I think" you can say "I know"....

But hey, that's just one guy's view. Feel free to take or leave my advice!


As an aside regarding the weather comment, my first flight was in some seriously turbulent weather (for a light aircraft) and I stepped out of the aircraft grinning from ear to ear, it was great fun getting chucked all over the place - like alton towers but better :}!

[flyhiguy28]

Is anyone going to Phase 3 on 22 Nov?

They've changed the venue and I just wondered if anyone else has booked into the hotel it's being held in. If you have (or going to), message me - it would be nice to meet up for a beer the night before phase 3!

Cheers.

P.S. Sorry if this falls outside the strict remit of the new and improved CTC forum...

[newbie008]

has anyone reapplied after being unsuccessful and managed to get back on the application process, as I know it says you cant reapply unless selected?

[ramshorn]

Evening all!!

Does anyone have any idea of the marks that are required to pass the CTC Pilot aptitude tests?
I think that they are marked in the form of hits and misses.
Any ideas would be appreciated as I am preparing for the tests on Friday.

Thankyou;)

[flyhiguy28]

Hi Newbie,

From reading previous threads I don't think that you can re-apply. However if I were you I wouldn't let it stop you, what's the worse that can happen?

In fact whilst having the presentation from Capt Steve Billet in Phase 2 he said something along the lines of if you are unsuccessful then don't allow it to put you off re-applying.

Go for it! And good luck...

[planecrazy.eu]

Not to sure what your asking, i have been working on an essay all day so my eyes have had it...

I took Pilapt, and it goes on Marks out of ten, I got a fair few 9's but no 10's. I think 10's are for cool and slick people who are bang on with everything and dead correct...

When i took it, an Avrg of 7 was needed, may have changed now as it was more or less a year ago, well 8 months...

They have a nice colorful print out at the end, and the raw marks, cant really say much more about Pilapt as it was pretty easy...

The only things that cause minor problems was the suitecase man, and Number, Colors and Crosshair at the end, two are not a problem, all three are or was to me...

[The flying nut]

I had done the CTC pilapt test about six months ago. As you said i had found the final stage of the test very demanding. however the easiest part i found to be was the flying through boxes scoring 10/10 on all occasions.

How i got my results were in the form of an e-mail saying that i was ranked in the high 30% of european pilots.

[Johnny1981]

Had my phase 4 on the 9th November but didn't manage to pass the stage.....I was absolutely gutted!! I wasn't 100% myself on the day and feel I could have done alot better. They haven't put me up for reselection but has anyone else been in this situation and later down the line been asked to come back to repeat stage 4?

I had my heart set on being part of the CTC course so as you can imagine its not a good feeling not getting through. I have planned out what I want to do with regards to other training schemes but first I am going to get at least 5hrs of flying experience which I have already enquired about. It will cost about £585 (Including membership) but well worth the money for the experience and to show determination to become a pilot!!

Anyone going to stage 4 good luck!! hope you are more successful!! :ok:

[squawkident.]

Ramshorn-I storngly advisse you research the exisiting numerous CTC threads as this subject has been discussed so many times before.

I passed my CTC selection back in July and all i can say about my Pilapt was that my scores were not actually all that great.

I think its a case of being able to improve on each attempt rather than get top marks each time (i could well be wrong here).

In fact in one of tests, i got a 7, 6 then a 7 . Dont let the scores phase you as it can be very disheartening. Remember they are there for a reason and I suppsoe part of being a good pilot is being able to distance yourself from personal problems and focus under pressure, in a professional manner.

Good luck anyway

SIdent.

[Mooney12]

Last time I asked, about 6 months ago, pass mark was 6/10.

Doubt this would have gone up as CTC now need 10 cadets a month or something and are struggling to fill the places.

[ramshorn]

Thanks guys for your assistance!:ok:

[Flying_Mech]

has anyone reapplied after being unsuccessful and managed to get back on the application process, as I know it says you cant reapply unless selected?

Hi.
I was unsuccessful on my phase 2, and i got a mail from them saying that Since i was so close to passing i would be able to reapply after 6 months.:ugh:
But still it's a long wait and if i don't get anything else I'll do it, but if i get a job see ya CTC. :O

FM

[Johnny1981]

Hi.
I was unsuccessful on my phase 2, and i got a mail from them saying that Since i was so close to passing i would be able to reapply after 6 months.:ugh:
But still it's a long wait and if i don't get anything else I'll do it, but if i get a job see ya CTC. :O

FM

The other person on my phase 4 originally failed stage 2 got a retake and is now flying out to New Zealand in the next couple of months!! 6months is a long time to wait just depends if you want to get on a course sooner....at the end of the day there are plenty of other ways to skin a cat you just have to find the one that suits you.

[BobbyK]

I have no idea where you got those figures for the pass mark as they certainly didnt let anyhting on when i ewnt. All i know is I got 4,6,7 for that first test and 4,5,8 for the flying through boxes and i passed. Just go and do your best and if oyure good enough youll get through...what difference does knowing that you need a 6 make anyway? Probably make you perform worse if anything

[Rj111]

On the deviator indicator i got 2, 3 then 5. But i somehow managed to pass. I really was quite tired at this point and was making silly errors like not noticing you had 30 seconds to play around with the controls and get used to the inverted up and down and the joystick. It was only when i got to the last multi-thing that i figured this. I was all over the shop on the first two rounds. It's a miracle that 5 turned up.

Morals: Don't worry about the score, just try your best. Read insructions. Good nights sleep.

Question....

What aircraft types do CTC train you up in? It was mentioned in the talk but i've forgotten and i'm not too hot on my non-airliner aircraft. :)

[bjkeates]

Rj111,

It's a bit of a mixed bag at the moment - we have Diamond DA-20 Katanas, Cessna 172s and Robin 2160s/Alpha 160As for the single-engine phases. Eventually, I believe the intention is to phase out the C172s and Katanas and have a uniform fleet of Alpha 160As. These are being built at the Alpha hangar literally right across the road from CTC. The twin-engine phase is taught on Diamond DA-42 Twin Stars.

[Mindie]

hey guys and gals

Any idea how long does it take for CTC to give you feedback in the application life cycle...i.e....

(1) After you send the intial application
(2) After phase 1 and all the other phases

Every second of my waiting time seems an eternity...
thanks

[scroggs]

Well, during that eternity please look through the original thread - where your questions have been answered several times.

Scroggs

[Rj111]

Cheers for that info bjkeates :ok:
Mindie

(1) varies, i got mine the next day but others have waited weeks. I think there's just a day every month or so when they have a look at them all. So it could vary dramatically depending on when you handed your's in relative to that day.

(2) Phase 2 you'll get an e-mail within hours. The other phases supposedly the next day, so relatively quickly. They said they'd tell you as soon as they knew themselves.

Good luck.

[Potential]

No. This forum is for the exchange of aviation-related information, not for social trivia. PM, e-mail, instant messaging, even the bloody phone can be used for social chit-chat. It will not be allowed here.


I totally agree that the social trivia aspect of the previous ctc wings thread was getting out of hand, but surely it is acceptable to make the initial social contact on the forum? Thereafter social contacts can be carried on privately out with the public discussion.

I faxed my Wings Cadet application a couple of days ago (I’m desperate to hear back from them) and, assuming I get accepted, I would like to try to make contact with others going to their stage 2 with me. It would not be possible to contact people by PM or email though, without first identifying them through the forum.

[scroggs]

All social exchanges can be by PM or e-mail. Posting such trivia here interrupts the flow of useful information on the thread, and leads inevitably and invariably way off-topic, totally devaluing the thread as a source of useful information for those trying to research CTC's Wings scheme. The policy will not change.

Scroggs

[Potential]

Are there any current or former Wings Cadets out there who could tell all us wannabes what life as a Wings Cadet is really like? What is the flying and workload like? What about the social aspect and accommodation? In your opinion, what would you say are the biggest positive and negative points, plus anything else you would like to add?

[farfadet]

Hello, i sent my application for the Cadet CTC programme, but i received a bad new. :uhoh:
Indeed, i recently obtained my theoretical ATPL, therefore they answered me that i'm ineligible to apply for the Cadets, but that i could apply for the ATP programme when it will be re-opened.

I don't understand, i thought i could apply for the Cadets even if i hold an theoretical ATPL.
May be, they thought i have a frozen ATPL, and it's a mistake from their...??? :confused:

Is someone able to help me ? :sad:
Thanks

[TCX_757]

Hi ,
I'm currently considering which A-levels to take. I will be taking Phyics Maths, but stuck on a third. I am unsure which of the folowing to take: Geography, Law, French or Business. All of which interest me. I want to apply to CTC but obviously want to keep my options open.
Any advice?

[SA242]

Hi ,
I'm currently considering which A-levels to take. I will be taking Phyics Maths, but stuck on a third. I am unsure which of the folowing to take: Geography, Law, French or Business. All of which interest me. I want to apply to CTC but obviously want to keep my options open.
Any advice?


Well I found geography to be fairly interesting and partially applicable to what I learnt when studying navigation for my SA Com. Hope that helps...

good luck there:ok:

[luigi_m_]

I have heard a few things about a programme called the CTC programme from various people, but I don't know too much about it. I read in Airliner World (UK mag) about a female pilot who flies for easyJet who went through the CTC programme to ger employed as a first officer. Anyway, can someone tell me what it's about, in terms of the training and how it is connected with the airlines, eg, do they pay a percentage of the training?
I am 19 with a PPL-A and worked in aviation (just a flying school) until I got to University (doing European Business), and was hoping to work in the admin side of aviation in a big firm when I graduate in 4 years time. However, I have been flying a lot of Jets on FS2004 recently (I know it's not the same thing...), and have become a lot more interested in the actual flying side of an airline. I'm in the first year of uni', but if I was able to get myself onto a sponsorship scheme, I would probably drop Uni' and try to go for a career as a commercial pilot, but I don't want to end up like hundreds of other pilots with the ATPL, CPL and a type rating and no job... Your advice please?
Also, are there any other companies at the moment which are offering full sponsorship for young persons such as myself?

[cparker]

Use the search function. There is huge amounts of information on the scheme here my friend.
Also www.ctcaviation.com.

[newbie008]

Does anyone know any good ways of practising hand eye co-ordination, preferably something similar to the cross hairs? Any websites or games etc...

[Rj111]

I'd suggest playing a game that uses a joystick. It took me a few rounds to get used to it in the test.

[Ralphtidy]

How was stage 3 then FlyHiGuy28? Any news?

Tidyboy

[aircockroaches]

I faxed my Wings Cadet application a couple of days ago (I’m desperate to hear back from them).


Did you hear anything yet? I'm gonna fax it to them tomorrow.

Cheers.


And, another question,

How should one wear for the stage 2, 3, etc etc... does it have to be a suit?

Thanks!

[Reverand Lovejoy]

AIrcockroaches,

Stage 2 is smart dress but not always a suit. I didn't wear a suit (because I didn't own one at the time) and passed. The idea is smart, clean and presentable. To be exact I wore dress trousers and shoes a clean pressed polo shirt and a thin plain jumper.

Stage 3 is a huge emphasis on presentation. A suit is a must, but dont go and sell your granny for the newest cut of silk. Again, it has to be clean, pressed and ready for action. Likewise for yourself, clean and ready is more important than a £1500. I got mine from next on the discount rail and paid about £100 for the lot, tie inc. £23 for the dry cleaners to get it ready for me and that was it. Cant stress it enough though, clean and ready beats the guy who is ill prepared wearing a sharp suit. This company are a little deeper than the clothes although an effort must be shown.

Thats not the original reason for posting though. I just thought I'd answer that one quickly. I thought I'd give some feedback for you guys who are coming out here soon or are in the latter stages of selection. For those that dont know me my name is Robert Woodmore and I am on the CTC Wings course and make up part of the CP42 group. I came out here a little later than everyone else in my group because I am on the short course as opposed to the long course. Anywho, I arrived yesturday morning (local time).

AS mentioned I had to travel alone out here which isn't the norm for CTC. I think the average through flow for cadets coming out is 10-12 per month but this isn't fixed. I'm sure your aware that some months alot of people pass and some months no one passes. I had to travel from leeds to Heathrow and was under the impression that my luggage allowance was 30kg with my flightbag as the main carry on and a laptop as a second piece of carry on. This isn't the case now however. So after a 5 hour car journey I am informed that the laptop has to go into the flight bag which means all the manuals and chunky bits have to go into the hold. After messing about my carry on weighed in at 11.7kg and my main bags weighed in at a massive 43kg. What was I thinking???????!! This total will get you a nice bill of £430 sterling and this wasn't an option. Back off up to the car park for a little trimming of the cases. Squeezed everything in and then off to check-in again where the guys were moe than happy to rush me through and see me off. A quick pint with my brothers, mum and fiancee and off to the gate. Very emotional experience at the gate where everyone says goodbye's and I am in pieces at leaving my fiancee back in the UK but it is a day of very mixed emotions. Security was no problem providing you jump through all the hoops they put in front of you and keep cool. Another pint in the airside bar as the flight is delayed till 11pm.

I flew with Singapore Airlines on the 747-400 and due to the guy at checking helping me there was 2 people over 4 seats so space wasn't a problem. Leg room was surprisingly vast and the inflight service was possibly the best I've experienced....ever. The crew genuinely want to help and seemed very friendly. The entertainment was awesome with 80 on-demand movies and a bunch of documentaries and music channels. Meals and drinks are all thrown in so no need to get your wallet out just yet. A light snack, another beer and then settled into the flight. Didn't get too much sleep as Mario Brothers made up one of the seat back games and meant I ended up with a sore thumb from all the jumping and fighting off mushroom men! Roughly 13 hours later I was at singapore. Singapore is a mental airport. It's more like a city with gyms, supermarket, hotels, pools and all i naddition to anything you'd witness in a UK airport. I quickly got off and took myself to the airports transit hotel where for $8.40 (£3.50) you can get a shower with all the towels and shampoos, hairgels, lotions ect provided. Before doing this though I stopped off to buy a clean shirt for the next leg as I forgot to pack a spare. Whatever you do, you dont want to be the guy that smells on the next 9.5hr leg!! All cleaned up, shaved and fresh and off to the checkin for Aukland. All relatively painless and the service again was good. I did have a kid behind me who didn't feel the need to stop screaming until the plane landed in Aukland. This was a real test of my patience and those around me with one or two outbursts from some of the passengers. I was on my own but ended up sitting next to a guy who holds his NZ CPL so that was the 9hrs done. Spoke about all sorts of nonesense and had a beer with him which helped the flight go by. A pretty stiff crosswind into Aukland which lead to a positive (read spinebreakingly firm) touchdown and then the games started with NZ immigration. I was stopped no less than three time by these sadists and also referred to the immigration board which meant I had to sit around for 20 mins whilst they sorted out my papers and quadruple checked I was here for the right reasons. Time consuming and not what I needed after all the traveling, but still refreshing to know that I'm here now and only a short drive to my accomodation. I was picked up in a minibus, and given a quick tour whilst bringing me to Clearways at hamilton airport. The journey is about 1hr 45min and as soon as I arrived I was greeted by lynne who showed me around the new complex. It is awesome. I have my own hotel type room with ensuite, a little kitchen area with microwave, cooker, kettle, fridge. I've got a t.v and internet connection, desk space and plenty of storage. Oh yeah and damn comfy bed too. There is also a £35M alarm clock in the form a Freedom Air Airbus that departs at 6.20am!! I was shown the communal areas and the saw the huge tv that receives sattelite which is cool. A gym and transport are also provided so I met up with some friends that I had made through selection and from Uni and we took a minibus into town to grab some food and take a look around the airport. I have only been here 5 minutes and I have already seen most of the complex and the training facilities. I took a seat in the katana that I will start to fly and met some of the ops staff. I have my induction on Monday but until then I've got to get settled and sort out some bits. My friend has a CPL qualifier today so we may end up popping out tonight for a beer to celebrate.

All in all I'm the happiest person alive right now. It's a huge emotional rollercoaster but one that I'm very pleased to be on.

After failing my 3rd stage of selection to getting out here has been awesome and I guess now the hard work starts. I hope those of you reading can say the same thing. I look forward to seeing you soon. I hope this inspires you!

The Reverand :ok:

[Tiger_ Moth]

Good post Reverand.

I am flying out in a little over a month and really can't wait to get out there. All my bits and pieces over here are sorted now and I am just desperate to get on with it. See you out there.

[pre3mhjt]

I second that, Good post Rob! I know its not been easy leaving everyone behind (oh the joys of being young, free and single eh!). Don't worry though because me and Tiger Moth'll be out there soon enough to soak up some of that winter sunshine, until then keep us posted, I know theres plenty of people on here that want to hear part 2.

Happy Days,

Mike

[concordski]

What an essay Rev,

Next time save yourself the $£ at Singapore and just douse in EDT samples.

Though agree with you on immigration at AKL, last time, I and about 700 other unlucky souls had four customs officials to see us all. I was asked if I had juggling balls (apparently they can contain hemp or other biosecurity contraband) so not only are we expected to continue the cattle-class existence after leaving the plane but entertain each other too.

c

[Infje]

Nice post Rev!

Flying out in a week and its good to read up on what is to be expected. Last month has certainly flown (pun intended) by with all the things that need sorting, but its good to get going now!

I'm going through Dubai, flying with Emirates. Never flow with 'm before, lets hope the experience is as good as yours (-screaming child).

[aircockroaches]

Does anyone of you know how many chaps get selected for the programme every month... or say the Ratio of applicants : selected?

Thanks.

[Captain_Hook]

I've done stage 3 last week and during the briefing they told us that they currently select about 12 cadets per month. If you read around the news on the CTC website you'll notice that this number is gonna grow soon because of the needs of the market.
I cannot tell the final percentage of successful applicants. Somebody says 3%, somebodys says 4%... I'll tell you what I've been told at stage 2:

"If you are here, consider yourself lucky cause 2/3 of the applicant are rejected at the first stage". Another 2/3 of the remaining applicants are rejected at stage 2. Pass rate for stage 3 is about 45% and pass rate for stage 4 is about 85%. I hope this make things clear.

Got stage 4 soon... I just can't wait :p

[BobbyK]

Are there any current/past CTC students reading this who wouldnt mind me pming them with a few questions? Ive got my stage 4 on thursday and before I sign my life away (assuming I pass) I'd quite like to check a few things about the transition from passing stage 4 to the end of the basic training!

Despite all the reading of the CTC website ive done I still find ive got a large number of blanks as to the step in between

-Thanks to MonarchA330 for ansewring my questions! No one else needs to pm me :)

[his3dmw]

a couple of things.
1) Thanks for the advice last month, I'm now ready to fly out on 10th Jan, so I'll c u there.

2) nice post, gave me a good indication of what to expect.

3) this is an open question. Does the accomodation in NZ have Sky sports?????

[spaceman18]

Back in the good old days of Peachgrove there was sky, including sky sports on some huge widescreen tvs... from what i understand the big tvs have gone across to clearways... and i assume theyve set up sky too. Enjoy NZ....:ok:

[bjkeates]

We do have Sky Sports (it's a different company to the UK version but still called Sky, and I think probably owned by the same people) so don't worry, you'll get your weekly helping of Premiership football; in fact, it's normal for them to show about 5 live games every weekend if that's what you're interested in. The only problem is because of the time difference, you have to either stay up all night or get up very, very early to watch it!

[dragonfly6]

Bobby,

Theres not much else to know really about basic training. You come to NZ and do your basic training the same as you would anywhere else. When your done you go back to the UK. Feel free to PM if you want.

[his3dmw]

Thats magic! Cheers for the responses. C u there

[concordski]

premiership football?! coming all this way and who cares? get a proper hobby

[newbie008]

nothing wrong with football! rugby - now thats a different matter!

[Rj111]

Trouble at BOH today

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/6197744.stm


I wonder if this effected any CTCers?

[aircockroaches]

I've been wondering if I should post this or not but anyway, I decided I'll post it! Consider this...

At 17, you get your PPL.

When 18 yrs old, you enter your first year university studying course X, only to realise that, working a bit harder, will get you into course Y which is more demanding, gets you far better salary at the end, and also you'll become someone in a profession which is not related to aviation.

So you leave University a few weeks after you enter course X, and re-take your A levels next year (possibly achieving better grades than the ones you already have), keeping in mind the aim to join the better, more demanding (etc etc) course you plan to join.

The reasons for doing this is due to realisation that you have the potential to join Course Y and will surely find it more interesting than course X, and finally that you will earn a better salary (to fund the pilot course should CTC scheme does not work out for you, or to repay any loans of pilot training, in addition to any other family loans).

During this time, you apply to CTC, and get selected for the interview part.

How do you think this would go down to the interviewers at CTC? Would they think that you want profession Y rather than pilot? I know it ultimately depends on how you present the facts, but is there something I'm missing?

Any opinions GREATLY appreciated.:ok: (either PM or here)

[NT42]

aircockroaches - I'd be very interested to see the reply to this, as I'm in a fairly similar situation.

I'm currently only in my first year of university but hope to become a commercial pilot. I'm about to complete the written section of the application form but was wondering if being a current student will hinder the application at all?

Obviously CTC is a great scheme and I will do my best to get in – but I hope being a current student won’t put them off me? Having said that, somebody from CTC is to give a ‘talk’ to my peers and myself soon, it may be a good idea to chat with him/her!

[concordski]

cockroaches/foreman

you're perfectly entitled to backup career(s) A1, A2, A3 (...!) to fund the dream of plan B - plain common sense and an insurance against career suicide. it's evidence that you're pro-active about your career choices.

as long as you can back up why you jumped x for y. and lets face it, quitting the course for a bigger, better one after only a few weeks (rather than a few years as does happen) is no biggie if you've thought about it properly. CTC themselves were advocating to some guy on the old thread that he try a few months of uni then re-apply and drop out to fly.

you can prove to them you're sufficiently motivated for pilot above Y by knowing the course, industry, partners and company inside out for the interview. remember, you have a PPL and this is a good sign of your commitment to flying.

as for being a student right now, do ask them but i doubt it matters, see the perma-debate on 'uni vs flying training'

c

[BobbyK]

Thanks for the offer Dragon but I think most of my questions have been answered for now! I passed Stage 4 on Thursday so I'm now waiting for the all important next step emails :D :D :D Hopefully starting some time around February. Really cant wait!

Aircockroaches - I personally think that if you explain your reasoning behind your choice clearly they will be impressed by your drive to work towards your ambitions. The only thing they may worry is that you cant commit to something but if you say how its a one off and possibly have examples of good committment in other things im sure theyll not be worried at all.

[aircockroaches]

Many thanks for your replies!

It's a question of bringing the positive sides of it rather than just telling them the facts, i.e. you tell them the facts, in a positive way!

[Captain_Hook]

Is there any current cadet who's reading the thread and wouldnt mind me messaging him as I have stage 4 comin soon and I would like to understand a bit more about the daily routine and life in NZ?
Thanks for your time and best of luck with your training.
Hook

[wobblyrock]

I passed through selection for CTC Wings, and i just wondered if anyone can suggest a good company to get all the insurance i need? Protection for the bond if i lose a limb or go blind or something?

Thanks

[akindofmagic]

After I'd passed phase IV, one of the many emails that CTC sent me was the contact details of an insurance broker who sort out the loss of medical category etc. insurance. If you haven't received the email with the details, maybe contact CTC and ask?

[his3dmw]

Aliright son, wind your beak in!

What would you suggest as a better hobby?

Do Sky sports show live trainspotting?

[concordski]

his3dmw since you're about to venture out it's a light starter of maori for you, with a main of crosswind landings, eau de PR2/3 and tectonic processes to finish. consider concorde's beak shut. enjoy.

[his3dmw]

And how I look forward to sampling those delicacies.
Nevertheless I shall be up at 3am every saturday watching the football. If that in anyway means that I am uncultured or weak minded, then so be it.

For now though, enough of the niceties, this is neither the time or the place. Shall we just say each to his own?

Seriously, I got a fair bit of use from here during selection so If I can be of use just give us a buzz.

[his3dmw]

Just a further question to anyone. It's just occurred to me that way back in march when I first applied for the wings scheme, I applied through the Thomas Cook Website, just because I happened to be browsing at the time. I've heard nothing in relation to Thomas cook since. I was just wondering if anyone else had done the same thing and has it had any bearing on their airline placement?

[Sagey]

His, not completely sure what you are asking but I can try and have a go at answering. You can access CTC application via the Thomas Cook website, it is the same application but the background around it is in Thomas Cook website colours. When the scheme was orginally launched you were allocated an airline, Thomas Cook or EasyJet. As more airlines have come on board, all cadets are white tailed and allocated airlines as per each individual airline requirement. Thomas Cook remain a partner airline and take CTC cadets when they require them.

[his3dmw]

Cheers,

thats the kind of answer I was wanting. I was just slightly intrigued as I looked at TC's website today and there is an option to "apply for Thomas cooks Sponsored cadet scheme" then the link takes you to ctc. Just wanted to check whether applying through this link could have any effect on placement.

[hollywood1983]

Hiya all!

I met someone that has just gone out to NZ and she is saying that their course are not starting flying until Feb due to all the delays they are having out there!

Anyone else know anymore?

J

[cnevster]

Hi,

I have just been going through the original wings thread and i have a question regarding the recruitment of cadets in the older age group.

I am currently 27 and have been considering applying to the CTC scheme. I read on the previous thread that EasyJet and Thompson have a maximum age limit that was/is around 26 years old. These posting were back from the end of 2004 i believe.

Does anyone know what the current situation is with regard to older cadets?? Would you automatically be excluded from entry at cadet level and go into the pool and (hopefully) get a job as direct entry??

[akindofmagic]

AFAIK, there is no restriction on the airlines that you can join if you're at the top end of the age scale. All cadets can be placed with any airline; who you end up with is dependent on the requirements of the various partner airlines when you come to the type rating stage of your training.

Regarding delays in training; it's impossible to say how soon after arriving in New Zealand you'll start flying. It's dependent on weather, instructor and aircraft availability etc. The first few weeks are very busy; in addition to induction you have the six NZ PPL exams to study for, as well as a type rating exam (Essential Knowledge Quiz) to sit for the aircraft that you will be flying. Therefore, you can expect your flying to pick up after this initial period.

[GWidgery]

I was just reading through the CTC FAQs, (again) (for about the 5th time!:rolleyes: )

This jumped out at me:

Cadets also have some expenses, including:
• Accommodation and living costs in the UK on leave and during Basic Training (where not provided in the course fees)

Where is it not provided in the course fees. As far as I can tell, basic training is 11 months, for how much is accommodation paid for?

[Rj111]

Well i'm out at stage 3 but i may as well offer some advice to people who are thinking of applying to CTC or are already going through the process.

To be successful at CTC from my observations you will need the following traits.....

Good Apptitude - People will argue that yiou either have this or you don't but i honestly think you can improve over a perios of time. To do this play some computer game (use a joystick), practise some IQ test, improve your multitasking skills. Try pilapt prep.... http://www.cockpitweb.com/pilottest.html ... if you're really god awful at these things.

Good Maths ability - Maths is a very easy one to improve on if you have enough time. Practise long subtraction, addition, multiplication and divsion. Everyone can so this give time regardless of how rubbish you are at maths. Also learn your square numbers, currency conversions and fractions. Try this website for some practise. http://www.thatquiz.com/

Demonstrate Teamworking and Reasoning Skills - This will be easier for people who have worked full time. So if you haven't join some teams - sports teams is a good example. Also forums can be a good way of improving your reasoning and debating skills. Don't be dominant or shy, the key word is "participation", you aim is to do what's best for the team, not yourself.

Have a History of Some Leadership and Demonstrate Them - May come with teamwork and once again may be easier for people who've worked full time. But there's plenty of opportunities for people who haven't. Join a sports team like a five a side football team. Show initiative in some way get people to follow you. Take control of situations.

Show a History of Responsiblity - Lots of things you can do here too but asking to do more responsible things at your workplace is the obvious choice. Generally just being conscious of being in responsible in your life will put you on the right path.

Show a History of Determination and Hard Working - Work hard at school and university, do extra curricular activities and succeed in them. Show them you can focus and hit targets and if you had to overcome unforseen obstacles on the way....well they love that!

Demonstrate that you've Pursued a Career as an Airline Pilot - This can be done via simply getting flight hours, joining air cadets, working in the airfield bar and getting to know some pilots. Use your initiative.

Demonstrate a knowledge of the industry - Subscribe to magazines, read the aviation forum, look at airlines websites (In particular the partner airlines), routes structures and fleets, watch documentaries. There's plenty to do here.

Some Experience at Interviews So You Can Sell Yourself - A lot of young people applying may not have ever had an interview. So get yourself a few throwaway interviews at jobs which you don't necessarily want but are challenging jobs. Also read some websites on good interview skills, i recommend here..... http://www.businessballs.com/interviews.htm . Be calm, relaxed but confident on the day.

If you don't have the majority of these i would seriously consider delaying you application up to about a year and working on these skill - you may possess these skills but might have trouble demonstrating them. CTC really do take only the best of the best for obvious reasons - they're investing a lot into you - the pass rate from application to acceptance is something like 4%. They don't allow reapplications so even though at a later point in life you may make a great student you will never get a chance (unless you're asked for a resit) to get on this great scheme.

I've learnt a lot of lessons through CTC and i'm glad i went through with it. It really was the first step for me and i kind of regret that one of the best opportunities for pilots out there was the unsuccessful learning curve for me. But it has certainly opened my eyes and given me the hunger to become an airline pilot one day. Thankfully, time is on my side.


Cheers and Good Luck,
Rj111

[SA242]

Rj111, sorry to hear that you're out. Many thanks for an excellent post though - hope you are successful elsewhere!

[farfadet]

Hello!
Could someone tell me about the age limit requirement, about each compagny (easyjet, monarch,...), for a Cadet who has succeeded the CTC Wings training ?

Thanks ! :ok:

[k8tyl123]

Just a quick question, has anyone had problems get the money side of things sorted with the bank etc? As in, have they just said no?? Thanks K

[newbie008]

can anyone give me any info on stage 2 revision. Obviously adding subtracting division, time/distance euro conversion. Anything else like fractions or algebra??thanks

[Reverand Lovejoy]

k8tyl123,
I have the worst credit history ever due to never being in one place for longer than 2 yrs. This didn't cause me any problems though. Walked into HSBC and 40 minutes later walked out with the unsecured loan in my bank. A very painless experience as it is handeled by one person in one branch only. Good Luck
Rev:ok:

[newbie008]

wheres the old ctc thread for reference??

[SA242]

wheres the old ctc thread for reference??

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144926

Here you go...this should work. enjoy the read!

[Rj111]

How long did it take to get the apptitude test results after failing stage 3 anyone?

It's been about a month now. I think i'm going to have to start hassling them.

[BobbyK]

They dont give you any feedback unless youre succesful in passing as far as I know rj111. So I wouldnt expect scores any time soon...

[2close]

Farfadet,

Whilst we are all aware that, in France EU law has very little effect if the French government doesn't want to do something ;) , in the UK the government tends to bend over backwards to appease their masters in Brussels.

Hence, we have Age Discrimination legislation which prevents any employer or provider of vocational training from treating any person any different by virtue of their age. It also applies to qualification bodies vis-a-vis issuing of any professional qualfication.

I notice that CTC no longer publish age restrictions, although whether this is in response to the introduction of the legislation or just a commercial move I do not know.

So the answer should be that age does not matter.....but in reality, who knows?

2close

[BR40737]

Does anybody know how many applicants are usually selected to re-apply after failing stages 2 or 3? Also, is it neccesary to re submit stage 1 etc first?

Regards.

[pre3mhjt]

BR40737, You do not need to re-submit stage one at any point after initial application. There are no longer any re-sits if you fail stage two. I dont know exact figures, but there are plenty of people out here who gained a place after failing stage three first time round. Hope this helps, Good Luck

[BR40737]

Thanks for the info, (although I can say they ARE still offering phase 2 re-sits)

Regards.

BR40737, You do not need to re-submit stage one at any point after initial application. There are no longer any re-sits if you fail stage two. I dont know exact figures, but there are plenty of people out here who gained a place after failing stage three first time round. Hope this helps, Good Luck

[newbie008]

yes to confirm they are still doing resits for stage 2. Does anyone know any good websites for maths revision esp currency conversion?

[bjkeates]

If you can do division and multiplication, you'll be able to do currency conversion... that's all currency conversion is. There's nothing special or different about it, other than the fact the numbers have got a pound or dollar sign in front of them!

[swisspilatus]

hello,

i've been invited for the stage 3 at the beginning of february and was just wondering how long does the day last approx. (for travel arrangements purpose).
Otherwise, how technical can the aviation questions be ? (i thought you could apply without any flying experience so what is the point of these questions ? :confused: )

thanks & ciao ciao

pilatus
(best wishes from GVA)

[BobbyK]

The group work is all in the morning so its down to when youre scheduled for your afternoon interview. Mine was the last of the day finishing around 5.30 but the first lot were done by around 1. If you need to get off early it might be worth asking if its possible to have an earlier slot.

As for the techinical side I think they want to see more of an ability to figure things out and reason rather than an all out knowledge. If you have no flying experience make sure you read up on the principles of flight and the partner airlines. Its no more difficult than that

[farfadet]

Ok Thank you 2close for your answer ! :ok:

[dragonfly6]

|Gwidgery:

The only time in the course you dont get accomodation is during your weeks off either side of the two exam periods. you are in the uk at this time so it shouldnt be a problem. You are provided with vehicles in NZ at all times but not in the UK. Your expenses as far as living goes will be food, beer and petrol. All travell is paid for out to Newzealand and back to the UK as far as London Heathrow.

2close,

about the age limits im not sure. I am told it is a very gray area, i think even CTC and the airlines are a little unsure on this one. Obviously the massive cost and huge risk of sposoring somone from 0hrs to First officer means airlines and ctc will want some "mileage" out of thier pilots. I think the airlines are looking for pilots to progress through to training captains and run thier fleet as opposed to just filling an immediate gap in the roster. The oldest people out here are somwhere around 29/30. As far as which airline you would then go to im not sure but you will get sent to one if you complete the course.

[2close]

Hi Dragonfly,

I think you will find the clarity needed to move from the grey area into the black and white in The Employment Equality (Age) Regulations 2006 - Age Discrimination.

Did I actually make that claim - 'UK law' and 'black and white' in the same sentence?

Regulation 7 makes it unlawful for employers to implement any conditions on employment in relation to age and that includes the arrangements made for determining to whom employment shold be offered. This could make it difficult for potential employers to utilise 'middle-men' to impose conditions that would filter the employee stream

Regulation 20 is quite explicit regarding vocational training:

"20.—(1) It is unlawful, in relation to a person seeking or undergoing training, for any training provider to discriminate against him—"

and it goes on with the various parameters but I think you get the gist.

What I find really interesting is Regulation 19, regarding Qualifications Bodies, e.g. Aviation Authorities which offer professional licences. This time the discrimination is flip-flopped and youth becomes the issue. OK, feet on the ground, there aren't going to be many people younger than 18 wanting a CPL or younger than 21 wanting an ATPL but it is interesting that no exemptions have been introduced within the legislation.

Saying all the above, nevertheless, this is new legislation and it will be a while before it settles - there have been amendments already. I am interested to see which way the bed will be made on this occasion.

Cheers,

2close

[2close]

Sounds like an auto-generated invoice, created by a computerised accounting system.

All phases of selection are entered separately into the system and a £0.00 charge is entered against that particular item. However, the system still chucks out the invoice and if you have an automated mailing system or an accounts assistant who isn't paying particular attention the invoices get sent out.

I used to have a similar problem with my accounting software but I wasn't so advanced to have things automatically posted so I simply binned those invoices.

My favourite cheque was from the Social Security for £ 0.01. I should have framed it but just for the hell of it I paid it into my bank account.

I wouldn't worry but if you're concerned give them a call.

2close

[Linzi]

Hey, I was worried about the same thing, but I soon got an email saying they received my payment for the booking...which did confuse me at the time because I didn't send anything, but I think the website just hasn't been updated yet.

Linzi

[Captain Spam Can]

Im due to go to stage2 reassesment and after looking through the threads i was wondering if there are group exercises at stage 2 like there were 4 years ago when i did it? The email only states aptitude tests.
Thanks

[Craig B]

Hey,

I did phase 2 in December and I can confirm it is just 15 maths questions and the PILAPT test.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Wouldn't be much of a test if they let you use a calculator;)

Good luck with selection

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Fair enough! Well it was a few years ago that I did CTC maths tests so I'm not much use to you. I'd be very suprised if you got a calculator, they don't usually give much away for free :}

[GWidgery]

Thanks for the answer to my previous question.... i've now got another!

How long (ish) does it take from when you send off your initial application form, until they contact you about Stage 2?

CTC say on their website it takes a few months from the very beginning to the very end, but not until S2.

Thanks

[Captain Spam Can]

GWidgery it took around 7 weeks from faxing the answers to CTC for stage 1 to getting a date for stage 2. Bearing in mind as well it was over the Christmas/New year period so it could well take less time normally.

Question

I have looked at amazon for books to brush up on my maths for the test but there are so many of them. Which ONE have most people found the most useful? i.e had the most relevant type of maths in when they went for there test. I have already ordered the Cockpit web program for the aptitude test just now looking for a relevant maths book.

Cheers:ok:

[THRILLSEEKER]

Thanks CraigB,

Do they let you use a calculator or is it mental arithmetic?


No you may not use a calculator... 15 MENTAL arithmatic questions... and it is possible to get 15/15 ;) :p

[Dolley]

cpt spam can

7 weeks??? Are you serious? I was starting getting worried because I sent mine off on 23/12/06 and only had two identical emails (1st on 27/12/06, 2nd on 2/1/07) to let me know that they've recieved it. And I haven't heard anything since. But I guess I can calm down if it took them 7 weeks with you!

About your question, I purchased 'Speed Mathematics' by Bill Handley because somebody recommended it somewhere here on either this or the old ctc threat and I think it's brilliant. I could imagine it's not everybody's piece of cake but I'm finding very helpful indeed.

[SA242]

cpt spam can
7 weeks??? Are you serious? I was starting getting worried because I sent mine off on 23/12/06 and only had two identical emails (1st on 27/12/06, 2nd on 2/1/07) to let me know that they've recieved it. And I haven't heard anything since. But I guess I can calm down if it took them 7 weeks with you!
About your question, I purchased 'Speed Mathematics' by Bill Handley because somebody recommended it somewhere here on either this or the old ctc threat and I think it's brilliant. I could imagine it's not everybody's piece of cake but I'm finding very helpful indeed.

Yes, CTC seem to take varying degrees of time processing the initial applications so I wouldn't be worried at all. I also got the 'Speed Mathematics' book by Bill Handley. Very good for sharpening up your mental arithmetic! Definitely recommended.

[newbie008]

what have people done who have failed stage 2 of CTC? Have you gone elsewhere like oxford or cabair and passed? I thought I would have passed as my scores on the hand eye coordination were high, must be the multi tasking i failed on! Bit stuck on what to do next ie get my ppl and try elsewhere..

[SA242]

what have people done who have failed stage 2 of CTC? Have you gone elsewhere like oxford or cabair and passed? I thought I would have passed as my scores on the hand eye coordination were high, must be the multi tasking i failed on! Bit stuck on what to do next ie get my ppl and try elsewhere..

Hi Newbie008, check your PM's....

[Captain Spam Can]

Ive ordered the Speed mathematics book. Thanks for the replys.

[Captain Spam Can]

I bought the Cockpitweb test software (£50) not realising that there is another company PilotPrep who do the same type of tests for half the price (and they actually make referance to CTC,FTE Cabair). Does anyone know which one bears the most resemblance to the tests at CTC (might purchase the Pilotprep one as well)

Thanks

[Tamesy1]

Spam,

Where can i find this Pilotprep software? Nowhere to be found on google...

[Captain Spam Can]

Tamesy1

http://www.pilapt-prep.co.uk/

http://www.cockpitweb.com/

[SA242]

I bought the Cockpitweb test software (£50) not realising that there is another company PilotPrep who do the same type of tests for half the price (and they actually make referance to CTC,FTE Cabair). Does anyone know which one bears the most resemblance to the tests at CTC (might purchase the Pilotprep one as well)

Thanks

From what I know, the Cockpitweb software is much closer to what you will find at CTC than Pilotprep. I have the Cockpit web software and its very good.

[newbie008]

given that CTC use pilapt I think you'll be wrong on that one lol!

[Dolley]

Well, I didn't have to wait 7 weeks but I just got the email telling me that they won't take my application any further.

Obviously I'm very disapointed...and I just would love to know where I went wrong. But like we all know they don't give feedback.

Well, it's a shame but at least my math is ****-hot now thanks to Bill Handley.

And I guess now it's looking into alternative ways. Any suggestions pm me :-)

[dragonfly6]

Gwidgery:

The amount of time varies, from sending off phase one to being in newzealand didnt take me much longer than 7 weeks but others were in selection for almost a year, id like to think its because im amazing but sadly i dont think thats the case. Chasing them up pays off. Hassle them, i know they managed to loose a few peoples applications. One guy got a call six months later after he'd moved to america!

[SoreTooth]

Hi,

Just wondering about the minimum age you can be to apply for the CTC scheme. Reading through some previous post's it seems hard to tell what the minimum age is, does anyone know of people aged 18 being accepted on the scheme?

Thanks.

[Captain Spam Can]

Just to clarify, the 7 weeks i stated to Dolley was from faxing phase 1 questions to receiving the email to attend Phase 2.

[Dolley]

Hi everybody,

I've got the following situation:

The reply for my faxed application (phase 1) was that ctc doesn't want to take my application any further. Obviously they didn't give me any feedback.

After thinking about it for a couple of days I started to wonder if they might think that I don't meet the minimum requirements to apply. The reason why I think this is that I stated all my school grades and qualifications in german. Whenever I applied to jobs before (in the UK) I stated the english equivalent but ctc sort of asks you to state your qualification as exact as possible so I did. But now I'm worried that they might not realize what it all means and assume that I don't have A-levels (Well, I don't. But I do have the equivalent!).

Does anybody know if it's worth a shot to send them an email (or a fax) stating this worry? Something in the line of 'I appreciate you can't give any feedback and I don't expect any but I would like to make sure that you know that I meet all the minimum requirements'?

It's just that it would be such a stupid thing to happen that I want to be as certain as possible that it's not even an option...just tell me if I'm just a bad looser! I decided to re-apply one way or another in six month time anyway so I know that already ;-)

Bring on your thoughts!
Thanks for any advice!

[NickS]

Dolley =>
You have nothing to lose by asking for feedback. The worst they can do is say no. They are pretty friendly folk though and if you ask nicely, they probably will reply.

I would have thought though that if they didn't feel that you met the education requirements, they wouldn't have given you the four additional questions to fax back.

Asking them is the only way to find out for certain.

[SA242]

Hi Dolly,

I was in a similar situation to you as I did all my schooling in South Africa so my grades where quoted in the South African system. I think if they sent you the written questions after your initial online application then it won't be a problem with your school marks. Always worth asking though.



Hi everybody,
I've got the following situation:
The reply for my faxed application (phase 1) was that ctc doesn't want to take my application any further. Obviously they didn't give me any feedback.
After thinking about it for a couple of days I started to wonder if they might think that I don't meet the minimum requirements to apply. The reason why I think this is that I stated all my school grades and qualifications in german. Whenever I applied to jobs before (in the UK) I stated the english equivalent but ctc sort of asks you to state your qualification as exact as possible so I did. But now I'm worried that they might not realize what it all means and assume that I don't have A-levels (Well, I don't. But I do have the equivalent!).
Does anybody know if it's worth a shot to send them an email (or a fax) stating this worry? Something in the line of 'I appreciate you can't give any feedback and I don't expect any but I would like to make sure that you know that I meet all the minimum requirements'?
It's just that it would be such a stupid thing to happen that I want to be as certain as possible that it's not even an option...just tell me if I'm just a bad looser! I decided to re-apply one way or another in six month time anyway so I know that already ;-)
Bring on your thoughts!
Thanks for any advice!

[Dolley]

Hi guys,

thanks for your replys!

I believe they must have changed the system because as soon as I sent of my online application I got the fax-questions. And I mean instandly, I pressed the button, next thing on screen was: 'Thanks for your filling out your first part of the application. Here are some questions that we want you to print out and fax them once answerd.'.

So I had the feeling it was automated and nobody ever checked the first part of my application before I got the second (how could they, within seconds?).
Does that make any sense?

Can anybody confirm that or had a similar experience?

[PPL152]

I do not have any A-Level passes under any UK examining boards. They are from an EU country, but not UK, and they recognised them.

As previously stated, if they sent you the fax questions, I guess they did accept your basic qualifications. If this is an automated response or not - I don't know.

Best of luck.

[d02473]

Hi Guys

Im not sure if this has come up before but thought it might be helpful.

If you need accomodation for your phase at Bournemouth and you have 2 weeks to a month before your up and are driving there, forget the B&B for £40+. Book in at the Ringwood services, A31 Travellodge, if you book a month in advance its £15, 2 weeks in advance £26, BARGAIN.

Im up for Phase 2 reassesment on 5th Feb, good luck to everyone and if there is anyone on the same day as me see you there.

Tom

[Dolley]

My guess is that they didn't like the way you answered the questions. But if you're concerned, contact them and ask!

I do believe you are absolutly right about both parts here mate.

Thanks everybody for your thoughts!

[Barcelona cadet]

Tamesy1

http://www.pilapt-prep.co.uk/

http://www.cockpitweb.com/


Hi,
Does anyone have any idea if with the cheap one is enough or the expensive one is better?

Thanks
( I'm going to Stage 2 this friday!)

[JulietEchoZulu-Mondo]

Hi guys,

Ive recently commenced training on the CTC wings course out in NZ and have started writing a blog. The aim is to document all the good and bad points of training as im actually doing it. At this stage, I dont actually know where i'll end up in 18 months, and so have decided to keep a journal to record my progress.

If anybody's interested, visit http://flyingtraining.********.com .

JMOndo

[apocraphe]

Hi guys,

Ive recently commenced training on the CTC wings course out in NZ and have started writing a blog. The aim is to document all the good and bad points of training as im actually doing it. At this stage, I dont actually know where i'll end up in 18 months, and so have decided to keep a journal to record my progress.

If anybody's interested, visit http://flyingtraining.********.com .

JMOndo

This is really interesting - i've added it to my favourites and i'll be keeping a close eye.

Couple of quick questions:
1) You mentioned a gym - is it close by/CTC based, is it free for CTC people and does it have a swimming pool?
2) How much flying (once it's all settled) do you expect to be doing a week, and how much studying, both in class and afterwards at home?
3) Do you have wireless broadband or any broadband in the accomodation?

Just a couple of thoughts i've had in my mind as my Stage 2 assessment date (26th January) gets closer - any info'd be greatfully recieved and i look forward to reading more about what you've been up to!

Cheers mate,

Apoc

[SA242]

Hi guys,
Ive recently commenced training on the CTC wings course out in NZ and have started writing a blog. The aim is to document all the good and bad points of training as im actually doing it. At this stage, I dont actually know where i'll end up in 18 months, and so have decided to keep a journal to record my progress.
If anybody's interested, visit http://flyingtraining.********.com .
JMOndo

Nice blog there - keep it up!

Hi,
Does anyone have any idea if with the cheap one is enough or the expensive one is better?
Thanks
( I'm going to Stage 2 this friday!)

Barcelona cadet,

I have the more expensive cockpitweb pilapt tests and they are very good. Cant speak for the other product since I haven't seen it but the cockpit web product seems to give you a fairly good basis for the pilapt tests.

Good luck for stage 2 :ok:

[Zouzi]

Would like to start preparing myself for the aptitude & psychometric testing at CTC. Could someone explain the difference inbetween these two tests? Also, can anyone recommend books for theses types of testing, please.

[d02473]

Hi,
Does anyone have any idea if with the cheap one is enough or the expensive one is better?

Thanks
( I'm going to Stage 2 this friday!)


I have both, as iv been to the phase 2 before (retake on 5th Feb) i know what their test is and its a mixture of both of the software mentioned. The Cockpit web one is very good and contains alot of that you will do at CTC, however the pilotprep one has three different ones out of its five which also come up at CTC. Therefore if you pnly want to get one get the Cockpitweb and practice them all as they do help, but if you can get both to cover nearly all bases.

Hope this helps

Good luck

Tom

[BR40737]

Does anybody know how/when CTC let you know that it's time to re-apply for a phase if you have been invited back?

Regards

[d02473]

AS FOR REINVITATION

You Call them up and ask them to reactivate your login on their website and that enables you to book your phase again.

AS FOR THE SOFTWARE.

I have both the Cockpitweb and PilotPrep software. Iv done the Phase 2 before and i can assure you both programs cover the pilotapt at CTC. If you only want one program get the cockpitweb as there are more tests and they all put you in good practice for your phase 2 assessment. The Pilotprep program does however have 3 out of the 5 programs which is in the CTC pilotapt so to have this as well is useful.

But basically if your going to buy one get the Cockpitweb

Tom

[d02473]

Have read through the following thread, pacificallt eh last few pages

The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

[Dolley]

BR:

six months!

Good luck :-)

[rusty_y2k2]

If anybody's interested, visit http://flyingtraining.********.com .

JMOndo


Bit of a short arse aren't you...



Dolley - not necessarily, I have a friend who just failed at phase 3 and he was told 12 months... equally there's another guy out here who failed phase 3 the first time but only had to wait 6 months. Not sure what determines how soon you can re-apply, but it certainly doesn't appear to be fixed.

I'm not sure that there is any checking of qualifications before they review the whole "phase 1" shebang, as an automated system would be a tad... unwieldy... when considering non-standard qualifications. It seems infinitely more likely to me that they just collate both sections of the phase 1 application and review it in one go. Anyway, as mentioned above, it can't hurt to ask politely!

[Dolley]

Thanks rusky,

I thought in the same lines... that it would have to be a pretty damn smart computer to understand it all, especially if it's non-standard stuff.
However, I still assume it was the answers to the questions they didn't like but I will ask them about my qualifications. It can't hurt, can it?!

And BR,

sorry, if I gave the wrong information with the six months. I was under the impression it was a fixed amount of time but I stand corrected.

[rusty_y2k2]

This is really interesting - i've added it to my favourites and i'll be keeping a close eye.

Couple of quick questions:
1) You mentioned a gym - is it close by/CTC based, is it free for CTC people and does it have a swimming pool?

Yes, it's in one of the blocks at clearways. Yes, it's "free". No, not unless you count the paddling pool someone has... There is a pool somewhere not a million miles away, but i'm not sure exactly where personally.

2) How much flying (once it's all settled) do you expect to be doing a week, and how much studying, both in class and afterwards at home?

Seems to be totally variable, both from week to week and from foundation course to wings course. Self study time is pretty much basically down to you - obviously though if you don't do enough then you'll struggle.

3) Do you have wireless broadband or any broadband in the accomodation?

Yes - wired broadband, not sure what happened to the wireless that was supposed to be in clearways from my hazy recollections of reading about it before I flew out here.


Good luck with your selection.

[Dolley]

Thanks pilot recruit and rusty (again),

I did contact them and I recieved an email today saying exactly that, that they have problems with my english qualification.
Wow, I didn't expect that!

Now I will obviously contact them again and see what can be done about it!
It's all a bit silly really as I've been living and working in english speaking countries for the past five years...

Whatever comes out of it now, I'm very glad I contaced them. Feel much less dumb now ;-)

Thanks again everybody for thoughts and support!

[PPL152]

Any statistics fan knows how many applications do CTC receive per month? I know that roughly 12 cadets a month get selected.

[aircockroaches]

Ay Mates

I have achieved my A levels last year (i.e. qualified for university) and applied to CTC this year, being selected for stage 2.

The grades I achieved in my A Levels (B and C) make me eligible to join any course at University, except Medicine and Dentistry. I only like those two from all the courses at university, so I decided to repeat the year and study to get straight B's to get to the course I want, should I fail CTC.

How do you think this goes down with the CTC people at the interview stage (phase 3), in a sense that, is it a "sin" that I am not going to university, and that I chose those subjects which are not an inch close to a pilot's career?

Thanks.
A.C.

[Tamesy1]

A.C

I'm currently in second year at uni studying Anatomy And Physiology after getting ABB in my A-levels. Obviously not the most relevant degree for a wannabe pilot...

I would definitely recommend going to uni, for obvious fun reasons, and the fact that it MAY possibly give you an edge later in life,

As for CTC, the type of degree you do doesn't matter, as they don't specify anything in particular, but the skills you learn from it are..i.e teamwork, interpersonal skills and possibly leadership. The fact that its not related may show that you are a more "three dimensional" person, with other facets to your personality that may make you a more employable person in future.

However, a good idea would be to show continued dedication to aviation (like UAS, flying lessons and summer jobs at airport etc).

Good luck

[dragonfly6]

Cant say i concur there.

I went to uni and had a blast.

There are however people training with CTC who didnt go to uni and they love it. They are also very good pilots.

Why try dissuade somone from applying to an awsome job?

No mate you dont need to go to uni, it is not a "sin" not to, and ctc seem happy to take people form all walks of life. Uni or not.

[bjkeates]

My opinion is that it may help - I found that going to University gave me a lot to talk about in my interview which, had I not gone, I wouldn't have otherwise been able to. Of course it's not necessary; if CTC considered it "a sin", as you put it, to not go to university then I think they'd probably list a degree as a minimum requirement rather than just A-levels, and save you wasting your time applying if you haven't got one. I'm in full agreement with Dragonfly; I had a cracking time at university and made some brilliant friends, however there are people training who have never been to university and they're just as good pilots as the ones that have.

Do bear in mind that the minimum requirements as listed here (http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings/040201.html) are just that - a minimum. Of course it might help if you've been to university and you've shown you've got the ability to study and learn and work hard, but if university isn't for you then slogging through it for three or four years, doing a degree you're not interested in and making your life a misery in the process is probably going to leave you fed up, unmotivated and probably worse off than if you hadn't gone (and with another 10 grand to pay off further down the road.)

To answer the last point on choosing subjects "an inch close to a pilot's career"... that really isn't an issue. There are people out here with degrees in law, psychology, chemistry, engineering... you don't need a maths or physics degree to be a pilot! (Incidentally I did a maths degree, and although it has helped me think quicker mathematically, not once have I used ANYTHING I learned during my three year degree during training so far. The most complicated I think I've used is early A-level stuff on vectors, but even if you haven't come across them before you'll be taught all you need to know once you're on the course.)

[Tamesy1]

I did not say that he "needs" to go to uni, and nor did i attempt to dissuade him from applying.

My point was that as a young man with time on his side, why not go to uni and enjoy the benefits that it brings, and then apply to CTC as a 21 year old?

If he decides that its not for him or doesn't enjoy uni life, then he should apply and he may make a fantastic applicant, but hat least he gave uni a chance

[aircockroaches]

Thanks for your replies.

As you may notice, I'm not from UK. Here we get paid to go to University, and the course I'm interested in is 5 yrs, i.e. I'll graduate at 24.

I had an experience at Uni as I got in a course I don't like, and got out of it after a couple of weeks. Didn't impress me much though.

I prefer to obtain a pilot's licence earlier in life than, should my pilot's career fail (not finding a job etc), I go back to uni. I just want to see how this goes with CTC. Seems it doesn't really matter but.

Regards.

[aircockroaches]

Great. So you can apply to CTC after 5 yrs even if you get rejected.

Convinced.

Now next is stage 2 then we'll see what happens after that.


Thanks mates
AC

[rusty_y2k2]

Well, there are no guarantees of course... but if you failed on lack of life experience then I wouldn't imagine it would be hard to convince them to give you another go in 5 years time.

If that was your only reason for failing I'd imagine you'd be one of the ones they'd ask back after 6 or 12 months anyway.

Like I said, no guarantees but if you don't think Uni is for you I wouldn't go through it for the sake of another box ticked. Ultimately if you succeed at CTC (remember it's not just selection you have to pass... you have to actually make it through the course too ;)) I'd imagine the few thousand hours you rack up in the years you would have spent at uni would be of equal or indeed more value than a degree.

All in my humble opinion of course, take it as you will.

[aircockroaches]

Thanks for the replies.

As previously said, the worse that could happen is get rejected (I'm not intending to do so...). First I must pass stage 2, then will worry more on stage 3.

I'd prefer however to leave University as a second option, second only to CTC.

[farfadet]

Hello, i came back from Bournemouth where i passed the Phase 2.
I'm invited to attend the phase 3 :) :) :)

Was someone at the phase 2 this Friday?

[PPL152]

farfadet

well done for getting through

when is your phase 3 going to be held and how many people where you for phase 2 roughly?

[aircockroaches]

Very useful information here from what it seems, different people from different backgrounds.

As CU PA, I'm not from the UK. Here, the courses I can get to are basically Medicine, Dentistry, Pharmacy or BSc, which are all massive 5 year courses. After all the struggling (and my country is known for my university and how rigorous the system is), you get to work 60 hours a week (that's the current situation for doctors), or 40 the minimum, to get paid something between £600 - £1000 monthly, that is at the age of 24. Then family loans? House, etc etc....

I did not see it worth it.

I decided to give a try to CTC first, if that doesn't succeed then I'm off to University, then do all the licences after my degree on my own.

If I succeed at CTC, then, knowing that the Wings programme is very well recognised by airlines etc etc, you will be in safe hands, unless you lose your medical - but then, I'm sure you will find some kind of job provided you have good grades at A level, apart from the medical insurance the airline might give you if you're lucky.

I don't know how this may sound but that's how I'm looking at it. I do believe that stage 2, group exercises at stage 3, and stage 4 are really up to the individual, but all I'm worried about is how to convince them about my plans in the interview part of stage 3.

NB: Please do consider that I'm not from the UK (even though I have British descendants) and that the system here is different.

[Sagey]

I think I am going to sound like a grumpy old man in this post, so please excuse me now.

The topic of whether to go to University or not has been covered extensively on Pprune - use the search function!!!.

Does having a degree help to get you on the CTC Wings scheme - which after all is the topic of conversation - then the answer is not necessarily.

It is true that the majority of CTC cadets have at least an undergraduate degree and the average age is over 20. Look at the CTC website and it clearly states what the academic qualifications required are, and a degree is not essential.

Aptitude to be a pilot is important, regardless of whether you have a PhD in Nuclear Physics or left school with the lowest required A levels. Can you guess what CTC do? - yup - they test aptitude. This apparently is the stage with the highest rejection rate - so you can guarantee that quite a few graduate and non graduates have been told adios, thank you for applying but we will not be taking your application further.

So you have met the required aptitude level, so what are the important factors that CTC believe that an airline pilot should have. I very much doubt that the word degree is first on the list here.

So, have a think.... Team work is that important? Well CTC test you on it, it says so on the website. Motivation - says it is important on the website too. So what else could they ask me about in an interview?. Not really the hardest question to answer is it - Why do you want to be an airline pilot, a bit about general life experiences, knowledge of the airline industry, decision making etc etc, give an example of when you worked in a team - it says on the website that team work is important and so on.

If you didn't go to University, would you expect a question - Why didn't you want to go to University. If you did go to University perhaps - Did you enjoy University and what did you gain from the experience - blah de blah. Why do you want to be an airline pilot despite having a degree in Flower arranging?

One of the fascinating things about life is that everyone is different. Everyone has had different life experiences and has made different choices. Ultimately a selection team will decide yay or nay and you can bet that they have considerable experience in finding and knowing what they are looking for.

[scroggs]

The university discussion has been moved here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=211899&highlight=degree).

I would remind you that this thread is specifically about applying for, attending interviews for, and information about the CTC Wings (Cadets) scheme. In the hope that this thread will continue to be useful to those considering CTC, please restrict yourselves to those constraints. Off-topic conversations dilute the thread and make it less likely that people will bother to use it to research their choices.

Scroggs

[UAU242]

Sagey forgot to mention Leadership skills, they are very keen on that! No problems if you were cricket captain for 4 years,but if not then have as many examples ready as you can think of!

[farfadet]

farfadet

well done for getting through

when is your phase 3 going to be held and how many people where you for phase 2 roughly?

Thanks PPL152.
I planned my phase 3 at the end of January.
We were 10 candidates. I'd like to know how many of them have passed this phase...

[GWidgery]

On a completely different train of thought....

What does CTC actually stand for? I've been meaning to find this out for a while. Is it Crew Training Centre, or have I just made that up?

Thanks
GWidgery

[dragonfly6]

stands for chief training captain.

They used to supply training captains to airlines that needed them on a consultancy basis before they started the wings programme.

The business in now mostly concerned with selling pilots (wings programme) and command courses, although they still do some consultancy and cabin crew training i think.

The name stayed the same.

As far as leadership skills, uni requirements, an "what CTC look for" go... I dont think CTC are of the box ticking persuasion. Yes leadership experience is a good quality, and university can be an important life experience. Yet there are plenty here without degrees and when asked what leadership experience i had in my intreview, i replied "none". They still let me in. Like sagey grumpy chops said, firstly they test aptitude. If the aptitude is up to standard they go on to look at the whole person. If the sum of all the qualities that person posseses makes for a promising proffesional you should have no worries. People have different qualities learned though different life experiences. I would hesistate to say CTC want a, b and, c. I found them more open minded than that. The only solid prerequisite is good aptitude and the ability to do some quick mental arithmatic.

[Sagey]

It is a jolly good job that you don't have to be able to spell professional as well!!.

However, Dragonfly is correct in saying there is no set formula, so be yourself and don't fall into the trap of trying to be what you think they want and what you are not.

I found the CTC interview to be the fairest interview that I have ever had. It was an enjoyable experience not one to be dreaded.

Sagey - aka "grumpy chops"

[SA242]

Anyone who was already in phase 2, remember what kind of questions did you have? complicated, easy, hard, under common sense?
If you can pls write some examples...
Thanks
Airgus...

Airgus, if your looking for answers like this go back and read the previous forum found here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144926

This topic has been discussed many a time.

[KindolFaret]

Airgus, maths test is just a matter of know how to convert currencies, units and simple mental square roots... normally you have enough time to finish everything and to have a look at it at the end. I recommend you to read carefully the questions.

[aircockroaches]

Guys

If you pass the CTC selection successfully, how can you finance the course? In the sense, if I have £0.00 in the bank, would that present a problem?

Thanks,
AC

[MonarchA330]

roaches,
I suggest you actually read the CTC site before applying.

http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings/040203.html

M330

[aircockroaches]

Monarch, from your link

"If you do not have access to the money required for this bond, an arrangement with a high street bank is available to lend you up to the full amount required (unsecured) at a competitive interest rate"

That means, YES, I can....

[Fly Navy, Sail Army]

Hate to kick off the selection babble again, but can anyone compare the Pilapt/Psychometrics for CTC with, say, those at OASC for RAF/RN? Plus, who knows when the next selection process gets underway?

Cheers, FNSA

[Sagey]

Fly Navy, different programme testing similiar skills. Just remember that CTC arn't looking for fast jet pilots though!

S

[aircockroaches]

Hi guys, I'm still worried and not convinced, so sorry to bother anyone with the questions!

I'm currently deciding whether to attend stage 2 or not as I have the following options

1) Go to university (last priority - not interested and 5 yr course to become a dentist or doctor is way too much)
2) Go to CTC

Now, I WANT to go to CTC if selected, BUT, there's a financial problem. I don't have much money saved up (used in PPL, travel etc) - very little.

A) If I get selected, what are the criteria needed for the loan, as I asked before, would I still get a loan if I have nothing saved up?

B) How much do the insurances cost all in all?


The info on the website doesn't specify exactly, so any additional info from present / past students or anyone would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the help.

[Dolley]

aircockroaches:

I wish I had your problems Dude!

Why don't you go ahead with phase 2 and ask them all your questions there?

As far as I understood it you get a loan that pretty much covers everything. And then you pay it of for at least seven years afterwards, straight away from your salary (as long as you stay with the same company) and taxfree which is a bonus.
So if you don't have any money for the insurance you have to add to the loan...and so on.

But you have to made up your own mind if you really want to or not. Nobody can help you with that.
If you decide not to go to phase 2 can I have your place please??? ;-)

Best of luck!

[Fly Navy, Sail Army]

Fly Navy, different programme testing similiar skills.

I'm not sure, but having looked at PILAPT those exercises are all part of the Cranwell Battery in some form or another. Seeing as I passed those Im hoping I should stand a fair chance at stage 2, whenever that might be...?

[CptFuture]

cockroaches,

No matter which of your choices you ultimately decide - you will need money. Go the university route you will no doubt get an overdraft and be be tied to your student loan. Go CTC and the you get the bond.

If the money worries you and you don't want to go to uni, think about taking time out to earn some, then approach CTC with a little tucked away. I see you're only 18 - there's no rush, and it may give you time to develop yourself to make you more attractive to CTC, demonstrate interest by working in the industry perhaps?

Good to see a young'un considering finances though....:p

All the best,

[Sagey]

Just remember that student loans do not need to be paid off until you are earning a set amount of salary, which is decided by Parliament. I have forgotten the current figure.

Another thing for the young uns to consider is that whilst you are training you do not earn any money and hence do not pay National Insurance contributions. You do get a buffer given to you, but Uni uses some of that and whilst it is not mandatory that you pay NI for the years that you wern't working, it can effect the state pension that you receive on retirement if you do not do so. Some may want to opt for making that extra payment (it is about 350 quid per year of short fall), and the tax office will notify you in writing of any short falls.

I guess the main advantage of the loan is that it is unsecured, I believe that it is the only unsecured career development loan out there for pilots. OAT, Cabair, FTE cadets can obtain secured loans via HSBC. All loans are getting relatively more expensive at the moment, with the Bank of England increasing interest rates.

[Fly Navy, Sail Army]

One more question.

Having taken care of stage one form-filling/faxing etc. Any clues as to when I might expect to hear from CTC selection if they choose to put me forward for phase two? Are they constantly reviewing applications on a rolling basis, or do they clump them for specific application periods.

If you couldn't already tell, I'm itching to prove my worth, how long am I going to have to sit on my hands trying not to meddle?!

[dragonfly6]

The money issue is all taken care of for you with CTC. If you pass selection it is a case of signing a few forms. Accomodation and training is provided, as well as travel. HSBC will throw in living expenses if you want them (400/month). You do not have to worry about paying anything back untill you are sitting in a big shiney aeroplane that goes whoosh. The course is a kind of semi-sponsored blur of money going in all sorts of directions. The repayements for the loans are even given back to you by the airline whilst you work for them so in a way you dont even have to worry about that. You will be on reduced salary for 7 years. They will explain all this at stage 2, its quite convoluted but makes sense in the end. They have structured the course as such that it holds minimal financial worry. The airlines get cheap pilots, CTC make money and pilots get jobs, its a good deal all round.

Like 1818 says unless your planning on being a doctor or a lawyer, or going straight into investment banking, when the financial processes have taken thier place and HSBC have all thier money back, CTC have taken thier share, and the airlines have thier pilot, your no worse off financially than if youd gone to uni and got a job. If like me you went to uni, didnt get a job, then came to CTC your debt would be astronomical, but hey.... who cares?

[Sagey]

Flyboy, I am afraid that the 4 year figure that you quote is totally wrong.

You need to have 44 years of qualifying payments to get the full state pension, you have 5 years of grace ie 5 years you can miss payments on and there are circumstances where you do not have to pay the short fall - looking after children is one.

It is a minor thing to do with CTC anyway, but it is relevant to anyone going through flight training whilst not working.

S

From the Inland Revenue

What is a qualifying year?

The amount of basic State Pension you will receive when
you reach State Pension age depends on the number of
years you have paid, or been treated as paying, National
Insurance contributions. These are called ’qualifying years’.
Sometimes you can be credited with National Insurance
contributions when you are unable to do paid work.

You need to have paid, been treated as having paid or
been credited with, enough National Insurance
contributions to get a qualifying year.

The number of qualifying years you have determines the
amount of your basic State Pension. At the moment, there
are different requirements for men and women. State
Pension age for women will change between 2010 and
2020. So, the number of qualifying years for a full basic
State Pension a woman needs will gradually increase
to 44 years, the same as a man.

Some people do not get a full basic State Pension because
they do not have enough qualifying years. If you retire
with less than a quarter (25%) of the qualifying years for
a full basic State Pension (currently 11 years for a man and
10 for a woman), you won’t get any basic State Pension
based on your own record, although you could on your
spouse’s record.

[aircockroaches]

Thanks for all the replies! Very helpful.

I think now it's enough asking questions! I think I have enough advice and information to make a good decision.


Seems that people have stopped posting the traditional "i passed to stage 2, and 3 etc etc).... are CTC on a kinda hold or what?

[SA242]

Thanks for all the replies! Very helpful.
I think now it's enough asking questions! I think I have enough advice and information to make a good decision.
Seems that people have stopped posting the traditional "i passed to stage 2, and 3 etc etc).... are CTC on a kinda hold or what?
Aircockroaches, the posts for people going to the CTC selection phases has moved to the CTC social thread found here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=252747&page=3
Good luck with your application :ok:

[concordski]

sagey - bang on mate, was worried about this when I started my training (not that many could understand the problem) though now I hear the upper age limit has been pushed back. Although you get a grace period for 'education' an ATPL does not qualify - only the bare minimum needed to get you into the workplace (any!) is allowed.

flyboy - i'd vote for you to be PM with only 4yrs of NI contributions! could be the shortest stay in office though.

c-ski

[Captain Spam Can]

Does anyone have any latest info on stage 3 selection? I.E. the building blocks exercises and in particular the questions/format in the interview. Are there many industry questions and if so are you expected to know the in's and out's of each one of there partner airlines? or is just normal interview questions? Are there any technical q's if you already have flight experiance? Info greatly appreciated, PM me if you want.

Thanks

[Rod Eddington]

Sagey,

The 44 years rule is changing soon to 30 years (according to the letter the inland revenue just sent me advising me not to pay the top-up amount). So NI contributions aren't really anything to worry yourself about.

Flyboy 1818,

Cadet FO salary (after the line training 6 month slave labour thingy has finished) is £24445 plus sector pay, which works out at £30k or a little more. This is after deduction of the loan repayments (12k).

Cheers

[Air Kojak]

TOP TIP!!

This may be jumping the gun a bit for the focus of most of these posts, but none the less usefull.

I've just returned from Gatwick today after sitting (and thankfully passing) the Class 1 Medical. If you are having to fly to Gatwick (or even travel by train for that matter), heres a small tip for getting to the CAA building. My initial instinct was to get an airport taxi the short ride, purely because I didn't know where to go exactly and if it was walkable. To my horror, it cost me £8.50 for what on a good day I reckon I could have hit with a good stones throw. Needles to say I enquired about alternative methods of travel upon leaving the CAA.

I was informed that there is a local bus service that stops just round the corner from the CAA (outside the BT building to be more precise). This service is FREE within the airport vicinity. Its only 2 stops to Gatwick South terminal and it tells you on the LCD display what stop is next

My advice, if your having to get from airport to CAA building, just ask someone where the local bus stop is and read the timetables there. There are only 2 services that run service 10 and service 20.

Hope this is useful info for someone and prevents them from the 10 minutes spent in a 1 way system with a moaning cockney taxi driver. And £17 better off.

Good Luck

[mustflywillfly]

Dear All,

Just about to embark on the application for the CTC Wings Cadet scheme. As a 31 year old Naval Officer it is a little scary jacking it all in and being called a cadet again!!

I am interested to know if there any bods out there who have passed CTC (WINGS CADET) / OAT and have not yet found employment. Or who were taken on for line training and then dropped (thus being liable to re-pay the loan to CTC as they did keep their side of the bargain but the airline said thanks but no thanks).

I love flying, always have done, used to fly in the Navy have a PPL etc but are these schemes as good as the clever marketing makes them out to be??

Many thanks for any input.

MFWF:ok:

[PlaneHomerS]

Go for it m8'ty! So many wannabes would kill to be at CTC :p

Personally i am going to do a 0-atpl course at a different modular school (saving thousands) then i will come back and apply for the ATP scheme, much cheaper! (also leaves me the money to pay for a type rating if it comes down to it)

Best of luck :)

[Air Kojak]

Congrats for making it this far, you've obviously got the bones of what their looking for. I sat and pased my stage 4 oh 25th Jan 2007. I was fortunate enough to speak to a recently qualified First Officer who has done sim checks at CTC who was able to give me a few tips on how to approach it.

Firstly, as I've already mentioned, to reach this far you've already shown you've got the aptitude and the motivation to make and they are know really looking to confirm what they've already seen.

In my opinion, and I appreciate others may think otherwise, but there are a few key areas they are really focussing on at this stage.

1. Trainability - if you demonstrate the ability to learn and be tought then implement flying techniques

2. Attitude - if your approach to the flight deck is a healthy one with a view to a career.

3. Self awareness - debriefing yourself on what you did wrong and looking to improve it

4. Personality - would the assesor want to spend the Manchester - Alicante run with you or would he rather sandpaper his eyeballs......?

6. And obviously, raw flying talent.

This list is by no means exclusive and as I said is only what I picked up through my experience. My Assesor was Lee Woodrow (the head of the wings program). I honestly could not have asked for a nicer, and more genuine guy to ases me and this made a huge difference in settling my nerves. I'm sure all the assesors havethe same ethos in their approach to this phase.

I hope this is of some help to you, and my final tip to you would be relax and enjoy this experience. Afterall, this could potentially be your future career and no mater how good an actor you are, once your working in the sim, your true colours shine through.

Good luck

Air Kojak

P.S. If your on the early sim, try going the night before to sainsbury's just up the road and picking up some stuff for breakfast for the morning. The morning slots start at 06.45 and I know the Premiere Travel Inn doesn't starts beakie til 7am.

[SA242]

Are they usually using the king air simulator for stage 4s now? I'm sure a couple of guys did their stage 4s in a 737 sim a while ago?

[pre3mhjt]

I can confirm that a couple of guys out here that did their stage four in the 73, but mostly all in the King; You will be able to tell which it is by the location of the final stage (Nursling = 737/(320)?, Bournemouth = King Air). Nothing too serious involved, if you get to stage four you'd have to have a pretty bad day not to be joining us out here. Relax; fly like you would in any other lesson and listen to instructions. Good luck.

[SA242]

Great, thanks for the reply. Hope the training is going well down there:ok:

[ribena]

Hi all,


Could anybody please tell my the course structure in terms of how long each part of the course will take and where ie UK or NZ. I have read the threads but I couldn’t see the answer anywhere.


Many thanks in advance

Ribena

[Captain Spam Can]

Can anyone confirm what pre3mhjt speculates, that if your phase 4 is at Dibden then its a 737 and if its at BOH its a King Air?

Thanks

[lovezzin]

Hey guys,

Before I post just wanna say that this thread is really informative and the guides you guys have given to the CTC process are priceless.

I have had my application form with CTC for around 1.5 years now:P I been really hesitant to submit it as one of the questions is:

''Do you hold a full UK driving License?''

If its not important, why would they ask? and besides in 99% sure you need one to potentially be an airline pilot (travelling from home to work etc). Well, i am about to start a 1 week intensive Pass course (at the cost of £750 cringe!).

I am 21 and i never got the chance to learn because i basically went straight from boarding school to University. During the dosser 1st year, i guess i should have done it.

Furthermore, I was just wondering what everyone else backgrounds are for getting through to Stage 2. cos from the nature of everyones posts, you all seem really intelligent, on the ball, and all nice chaps, so fo thos who dont get to phase 2, what must have been wrong? Im a little worried that i wont make is and an airline pilot (as wioth everyone else) is all i have ever wanted to be!

My Specs are as follows:

Male 21
BEng Aeronautical Engineering @ Loughborough Uni.
(finalist, due to graduate this summer)
A-Levels: Maths (A), Physics (A), DT (B)
AS-Level: geography (C)
GCSE: 8 (A-B), 1 (C - French - yuk)

obviously, qualifications dont make up for personality, but i was just wondering if i am on par with the rest of you?

My only empolyments were various barstaff @ bars/Clubs.

[rusty_y2k2]

''Do you hold a full UK driving License?''

If its not important, why would they ask? and besides in 99% sure you need one to potentially be an airline pilot (travelling from home to work etc). Well, i am about to start a 1 week intensive Pass course (at the cost of £750 cringe!).

Least of your worries for now, it is certainly not a pre-requisite - It would be good to have though just so that you can drive in NZ otherwise you'll be dependant upon others to ship you to the airport and to town etc.

As for not being intelligent enough to pass phase 2, I wouldn't worry about it... the maths test is really simple and they even let you re-attempt it at phase 3 if you only just fail it (no, I didn't fail it before you ask ;)) - can't say fairer than that! The rest is just down to aptitude and I wouldn't really correlate that with intelligence. If you require a bib every time you eat and have a nasty habit of walking into lamposts then maybe you won't do so well, but I really wouldn't spend much time worrying about this phase. I'm not sure of specific pass rates but I think it's something around half get through...

Phase 3 is, in my opinion, the make or break phase and by far the most challenging - after that you're more or less a shoe in unless you insult the phase 4 instructor's mother/have the flying ability of a penguin.

Captain Spam Can - he is correct...

[lovezzin]

hahaha - thanks for the reply!! like ur style! :P Hope you are successful!

[pre3mhjt]

Captain Spam, I wasn't speculating I was confirming, and if you get to stage 4 it won't be at Dibden, it will be Nursling or BOH.
Lovezzin, as my good man Rusty says, a driving licence is by no means a requirement, in fact I could name 3 people out here who will have a fATPL before being legally allowed to drive!
Ribena, I don't have the information to hand but I will try and find out for you as soon as I can.

Good luck everyone

Pre3

[rusty_y2k2]

You've got me beaten then... I can only think of two out here!

Still, point stands - it's certainly not something to hold off your application form for, they are after pilots not limosine drivers. If you have the wherewithall and the capability of attaining your fATPL, and getting through the course in general, I think it's more or less assumed you will be able to convince the DVLA's finest that you are capable of driving a car should the need arise due to basing upon employment etc. If not, I find bribery works a treat.

And yes... I hope I am successful too... otherwise that loan was a big mistake. :sad:

[flyhiguy28]

Hi there MFWF,

I just read your comment with interest - I too am an ex Naval Officer who applied for CTC but failed miserably at Satge 3!

I would be glad to offer any advice / assistance if you like.

Are you an ex aviator? I was chopped at 702 sadly and then left the mob.

You'll have loads of examples to give them on the application from when you did SMAC etc, so that will be fine.

Stage 2 was just like the aptitudes at OASC only about 10 times easier - no problem there then! I really had to brush up on my maths though, a waek point of mine.

Stage 3 I came a cropper. And this is where ex military people find it weird. It's all about team building / role play stuff but they don't want you to take charge of a situation. And they don't want you to be quiet either. It's all very fluffy - unfortunately the team I was with were quiet as a mouse and I ended up steering them through the excercise.

Phase 4 - well it's a sim check so you'll be fine!

Another ex Navy chap is out in NZ, he was chopped on 824 and is getting a bit frustrated with the whole course out there. He doesn't have a PPL so is having to go through all of the basics.

I've got a PPL and that's about it. I'm considering re-appplying to CTC (even though they said not to) but am also looking at other FTO's out there too.

Good luck and let me know how you get on!

Smudge

[d02473]

HI

Can anybody offer any experience of phase 3, I.E the sort of activites in the morning, iv read all through these threads and there is plenty of info on the Interview, hence im after more info on the first part of the day. Any more interview advice is welcome though.

Many Thanks and good luck to all

Tom

[rusty_y2k2]

Another ex Navy chap is out in NZ, he was chopped on 824 and is getting a bit frustrated with the whole course out there. He doesn't have a PPL so is having to go through all of the basics.

Would that be a certain Scottish chap?



Stage 3 I came a cropper. And this is where ex military people find it weird. It's all about team building / role play stuff but they don't want you to take charge of a situation. And they don't want you to be quiet either. It's all very fluffy - unfortunately the team I was with were quiet as a mouse and I ended up steering them through the excercise.


Yeah it's a tricky one... It's not that they don't want to see you take charge of the situation, it's that they want to see that although you have the ability to lead they also want to see that you are not over-dominating and give everyone else the chance to have the lime light for a bit. So if you are a strong leader character (like most ex mil officers are) and are surrounded by the quiet retiring types during your group activities you have your work cut out for you for sure.

[french frog]

Hello,

I will pass CTC and NJE selection in few months and I would like
to prepare phase3 interviews.

It there anybody interested to chat with me on skype to prepare
the phase3?

Best regards,
MD

[french frog]

Hi again,

the chat subject could be : the future of the commercial aviation, we could plan a debate on this subject. If you interested, please let me know by sending me a MP.

MD

[rusty_y2k2]

If you interested, please let me know by sending me a MP


Any particular one? Boris Johnson is always good for a laugh.... Although I'm not sure I have any boxes big enough at the moment.

[capt.]

hey, i was just wondering if any one remembers on phase 2 if the deviation indicatior reacts to the same force or opposite force to center it.

e.g. if the vertical line moves left, do you move the joystick left or right to move it to the middle?

i really want to pass and trying to get as much information as possible :)

thanks.

capt x

[capt.]

That helps loads, thanks airgus xx

[flyhiguy28]

Guys,

As has been said a million times before it really doesn't help to get stressed out about the aptitudes.

The thing about aptitude is you either have it or you don't. It's like medical, there's nothing you can do about it! So the BEST thing to do is to forget practicing PILAPT and worrying about which way the bar moves and get a bloody good nights sleep and RELAX and ENJOY the tests! They are actually good fun!

As far as I am aware the tests are designed to measure improvement. So if you've spent 6 months practicing PILAPT and are an aptitude ninja, you're not really going to improve much on the day are you?

And in case you're wondering i've passed the military ones 3 times and the CTC ones too. And I didn't do any rehearsing other than revise my mental arithmetic.

Hope this helps you guys sitting aptitudes for the first time. Cheers.

[Captain Spam Can]

The £5000 a year in living costs which HSBC are prepared to lend you, is it enough to live off? As i dont have access to large amounts of cash.:{

[french frog]

I have still no receivedprivate message. Does it mean nobody is interested to chat on skype to prepare phase3? :-(

May my previous post wasn't very clear but If you are interested to have group talk on skype, please, send me a private message.

bye
Med

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Lovezzin

The other chaps are correct that you don't need a driving license prior to starting the course but you are doing the right thing getting one now. I wouldn't recommend anyone start the scheme without one. You don't want to be dealing with Bournemouth and learning to drive at the same time - you are busy enough. Similar with the later stages of the course. If you arrive at your airline without a driving license you are going to have fun making that 0430 report using public transport!

Good luck guys

[Captain Spam Can]

Hi, im looking for any additional info (aside from whats in this thread and the original) on Phase 4 sim ride. Not been able to find much relating to stage 4, im especially interested in what your expected to do if you do have some hours under your belt? or is it still just a case of climbing, turning etc? Also if your asked maths questions or any such questions whilst on the sim check?

Thanks
CSC

[PPL152]

I would like to know what your views are on going through the first few years of your career with a huge 60+K debt! Can one sleep with such a big noose around your neck?! Anyone been there? Anyone wishes to share their views of how they would cope with it? And also, anyone know how much the whole training REALLY adds up to (adding insurances, foundation course, etc, etc.)......any unexpected surprise expences?


If you make a more thorough search you will find some answers, however, just to sum up the cost of training after flying for 7 years with the partner airline will exceed £100,000 (including interests etc). However, there is plenty of information in previous posts in this very thread and the original thread.

Regarding stage 4, it is a simulator check and yes you will be asked strange questions, including mental mathematics. A common question cadets are asked is "What is your date of birth?" followed by "Express your age as months". Mathematics questions are not too complex but they're not easy. You can be asked for the square root of an odd number, for example while executing a descending turn in a 737 simulator.

If you passed to stage 4, it means you've got what it takes. Just relax and enjoy every part of it, and last but not least, go with your brain's learning devices turned on!

[Captain Myers]

Hi everyone,

I would be grateful if anyone already on the CTC Wings Scheme could provide me with some advice about insurance. I need to get cover for loss of life and loss of Class 1 Medical category. Does anyone know of any insurance companies they can recommend to me please?

Thanks and regards,

Sarah :)

[bjkeates]

Sarah,

If you've passed selection and are provisionally on the course, CTC will be sending you details shortly. I'll PM you some more info.

[bodyflier]

Hi all,

Just thought I'd share with you some of my thoughts on the PILAPT prep software that is available for practicing PILAPT tests.

In short, it's a low cost piece of software and it shows.

Each of the tests is a separate application and can therefore be run simultaneously. However, this isn't as good as it sounds. The software uses the built in Windows speech synthesizer, which can only say one thing at a time, so if there's a timing conflict between Hands saying "Negative Left Hand Square" and Countdown saying "Two two five", it will screw up the timings of the countdown i.e. you won't get chance to click if you need to.

The Countdown application is buggy - it doesn't keep score properly if you click the restart button.

None of the other applications give you a score, so if you're screwing it up and you don't realise, it won't tell you.

A cheap and useful tool to some extent, but can be frustrating and very unsophisticated.

[oates76]

Hi all, can anyone advise a place to stay in nursling? I am coming over from Canada, and have phase 3 (provided i pass 2) and 4 on two consecutive days (Wed and Thurs). Phase 3 is in Bournemouth and Phase 4 is in Nursling. Is it worth changing accomodation after phase 3, and moving up to Nursling, or are they close enough that I can stay in Bournemouth for two nights, and take a taxi to Nursling the next morning for phase 4?

Thanks for any help.

[babolat]

check PM's oates

[Murray_NN]

CTC website has the following note for the CTC ATP programme:

Latest News.....
Thank you for your interest in applying for the CTC Wings ATP programme. Due to the large volume of applications that have recently been received, we have temporarily closed the website to new CTC Wings ATP applicants. We are therefore not currently accepting applications for the CTC Wings ATP programme at this time, but please monitor the website, as we will be accepting applications in the near future.
Lee Woodward
Head of CTC Wings

Are they still taking applications for the above programme? I am wondering if they are, because this post seems very busy.:confused:

Thanks for any info.

[Tripster_747]

Hi ya'll!

Just a quick question regarding CTC's provisional course allocation letter (which you receive after passing phase 4):

One of the conditions stated on the letter for you to be "fully" accepted on the course (on which you have been "provisionally" allocated) is:

"Success at interview or other selection that may be required by sponsoring airlines"

I though that sponsorship wouldn't happen until on the course.....Anyone know what the likelihood is that such an interview or selection may be requested before going to NZ? And (this one worries me more), are we talking about a FULL interview (i.e. another phase 3)?!?!?!:uhoh: Is it a make it or break it interview or more of an informal matter?

All comments will be greatly appreciated!

Good luck to you all!! :ok:

[iamtheone]

Hey, having passed phase 3 you will be fine taking any interview thrown at you by one of CTC's partner airlines. When i got through the selection process i got a little worried about that sentance too but its seriously no big deal. I believe these interviews range from visiting easyland at Luton for a look around the crew area and being told this is where we will see you shortly for type rating... to a base meeting a TCX with a chat about how training with CTC has gone etc. I think BA still have a fairly comprehensive selection procedure post CTC wings, but like i said dont worry about it at all, well done for getting on the scheme! Its a big achievement!!! We will see you out here soon.

[Tripster_747]

Thanks for the info iamtheone! Hope to see you guys soon!

Regards

[ali84]

Hey every1
Ive just booked my stage 2 for the 5th march and was planning to get to bournemouth the day b4 hand, since its a 12 hours coach ride frm Newcastle (no planes fly there frm here). Can anyone reccommend and hotels and if the airport is far from it or not. Any advice for the day will also be appreciated.

Cheers

Ali

[oneip01]

Hi,

Can anyone recall their maths test at stage 2 to confirm if you are required to know conversion factors or are you provided with the conversions as part of the question? Obviously things like miles to Km etc are pretty easy but things like Gallons to Litres, grams to lbs etc etc.

Also if anyone can give an insight into the type/standard of questions (an example perhaps) that would be great. I have read that's it's just standard long division, multiplication, decimals but I'm assuming they dress these up in certain styles?

Cheers

[oneip01]

Cheer for the info Airgus.

[Captain Myers]

Hi everyone,

I am pretty certain I'm not going to be able to fit all the things I'll need for spending 11 months in New Zealand in my one suitcase of 20kg when I fly out.
Has anyone else had this problem? If so, did you organise the extra luggage with Singapore Airlines or did you get it sent to you by another company?

Thanks a lot,

Sarah :)

[Linzi]

I'm having the same problem! The 30kg is great...but the only problem is that if you're flying to Heathrow to catch the flight to NZ, you have to pay the 10kg excess baggage with the other airline :uhoh: Not always affordable! Need to learn how to pack light...unless someone knows where to find Mary Poppins' bag.

[Fat A1bert]

Hi Sarah, Linzi

Only pack one pair of flying shoes, and one or two pairs of other shoes ;)

Good to see some ladies heading out to NZ - when are you guys off?

FA

[rusty_y2k2]

Remember that contrary to popular opinion, New Zealand does actually feature a basic form of civilisation which brings with it the almighty capitalist tool - the shop.

Leave out the little things that are easily bought out here instead, and if you end up having to leave out some clothes etc then it's not the end of the world... just go shopping if you find you need them! Just to add my experience however my bag was 31.5kg (it did have a whole xbox 360 in it!) and that got checked through without a problem. I'm not sure whether that was normal or due to my fellow colleague giving the Check in lady a cheesy grin.

[Linzi]

ooooh FA I can assure you 2 pairs of shoes will be just fine and dandy! - if you were trying to insinuate that we will automatically fill the suitcases that is ;) I'm heading out next Wednesday 7th. Been a busy week!

[oates76]

Hi, I've got a quickie for those of you who did Phase 4 @ the Nursling crew training centre. I've got phase 3 in Bournemouth, then phase 4 (as long as I pass) the very next morning in Nursling, so I'd like to move up there after phase 3 is complete. Can anyone recommend a nice place to stay in Nursling that is not too far from the crew training centre?

Thanks in advance. Feel free to PM me.

Oates

[Captain Myers]

A limit of 30kg is much better. Thanks for letting me know.

Unfortunately, I won't be heading out till July as I'm finishing my degree. But I look forward to meeting you all if you're still there when I arrive. Nice to know there'll be at least one other lady there too :)

[iamtheone]

I brought one suitcase with emirates of 35kg, that is (or was) their limit, and i also brought a second smaller suitcase which was about 20kg maybe a tad under. Man did i overpack. I didnt have to pay for it, i doubt you are limited to the one bag, its just more to go missing at the end of the flight though.. i was lucky!!!

[oneip01]

I have one specific question regarding the pilapt tests. I've had a look on the website to see images of what the tests look like. With regards to the 'identifying a shape' amongst a clutter of lines from your experience is the shape sometimes rotated upside down or flipped over in the pictures rather than always being the same way up as shown?


Cheers

[Stall-turn-Go]

I have to disagree with Pilot Chris, i seem to remember the shapes being in all kinds of orientation, my memory may be wrong though.

[rusty_y2k2]

I have to disagree with you both - I can't remember it at all...


Why are you worrying about this? Relax and get a good nights sleep before hand, it will benefit you far more than worrying about which way around the shapes might be or whether the chap holding circles and squares in different hands has the features of a cro-magnon or a neanderthal...

The fact that the two fine debt-riddled persons above have contradicting memories, and that my poor brain has absolutely no recollection whatsoever, should probably reassure you that it's something of a non-issue.

[pcoltas]

i took my stage 2 yesterday, the shape is always the same size and orientation as shown.

well done to all the other guys that passed yesterday, hope to see some of you again at stage 3

anyone got any info on what sorta things they ask at the interview at stage 3, and what the group exercises consist of?

cheers

[tommyketch]

Although I've often read this thread, I've never bothered to post. But today, I felt like a change. I just wanted to add a few thoughts about stage 2 as reassurance to peeps going through it. I did mine ages ago, but I still remember it quite vividly, mainly for the emotional high I got from getting through it. For me, that day was a great day, full of different emotions. Not to mention the build up to it, which was a mini-rollercoaster in itself for a variety of reasons!

I won't repeat what's been said about S2 elsewhere if I can avoid it, as what I've read on here turned out to be accurate. Thanks to those who took the time to provide support to us all, it's greatly appreciated and helped me get where I am today.

Overall, the S2 maths test was easier than I thought it was going to be. The difficulty of the test is the time constraint you are under. 15 questions in 15 minutes suggests 1 min per question, but the reality, as with most tests, isn't that straightforward (or bad). The early questions are easy, and can be done in seconds. The later questions are harder and need a bit more time. However, provided you are good enough at maths to do simple arithmetic in your head or on the paper to arrive at an answer close enough to the correct muli-choice answer, you can still pass the test. Listen to whatever advice you are given on the day, it's good advice.

That's not to say that you shouldn't bother doing any practice. A pilot needs to handle numbers, so if you can't or you have trouble, practise, practise, practise. This will alleviate your nerves, improve your performance on the day and set you in good stead should you be successful. Passing selection is the beginning, not the end of the process. The end of the process is becoming gainfully employed by an airline, and anything you can do to improve your chances now is an investment in your future.

Numeracy test workbooks are good sources of general maths practice that have relevance to the real world. The Bill Handley Speed Mathematics book is good too, if you have enough time to absorb and practice the techniques. Don't be fooled though. That book requires as much learning of a new technique as it confers a benefit having done so. If you don't have time to properly learn the techniques, you could work against yourself. Stick to the maths techniques you know and concentrate on improving those if you are short of prep time. If you have no technique or are dire at a particular aspect e.g. division, research and practice a technique that you can get comfy with. I only came across the book well after I did S2, and it's a real insight into mathematical calculations. In many ways, it illustrated in black and white what many of us do in our heads but have never bothered to express to ourselves. There are many techniques in there, and a lot to remember, but time with the techniques is time well spent if you don't have successful calculation strategies already.

The PILAPT test can be a daunting prospect. I understand why. Stage 2 is a totally quantitative pass/fail situation, and there's a fear of the unknown. If you can't do the maths, or you can't meet the PILAPT grade, you are out (maths test resit allowed). That's a frightening prospect, but it's no reason to not try.

Some people on here have stated that it's not possible to train for PILAPT. That's simply not true. Sure, there are some people in the population who would just be rubbish at the tests regardless, but such people probably won't be entertaining thoughts of a career in flying anyway, and probably don't meet the academic standards of CTC. The idea that the ability to fly a plane is something that one is born with is utterly arrogant and seriously ill informed. The idea that we are born with the ability to do something totally un-natural is flawed. This is borne out by the fact that pilots go through extensive training, period! Of course, your background will influence your performance or ability in the tests, but anyone can improve their chances in any test by direct or indirect training. These tests are not about flying per sé. They are about the skills we have developed throughout our life and will continue to use. It's possible to acquire and develop them all, without ever setting foot in a plane.

To me, PILAPT is more than the test itself. Sure, it's about hand-eye co-ordination, concentration, visual acuity, visual and audible alertness and mental and physical muti-tasking. But, it's also about intelligence and the strategic mindset you take towards the test. You can train for this test by either using the software mentioned elsewhere in this and the other thread, and also by doing things in everyday life. Play flight simulators of some description. Practice manual landings on whatever flight sim you have (doesn't have to be MS FS, you could get Falcon 6, USAF Navy fighters and do carrier approaches etc). Play more complex video games requiring stick control (Rogue Leader et al). Whatever gets you into the mindframe and the practice along these lines. You don't have to cane it day in, day out, just some here, some there, in order to develop your touch and the ability think about a few things at once and get your plane safely on the deck. Personally, I always loved playing flight sims and particularly pulling off carrier landings. Incredibly satisfying and quite demanding.

Another thing to be sure to check for yourself is your ability to handle audio, visual and physical stimuli at once. Can you hold a reasonable conversation while driving, particularly when doing 60 on a winding country road, holding accurate speeds at the same time? If not, have a practise. How much of the radio 4 news can you remember 5 minutes after it was on when you are driving in heavy motorway traffic? The alternative to this is using the practice software. I had a go with PILAPT Prep. It's not a replica of the PILAPT test, but it sure helps and it's cheap. It's not without its niggles though. If you want more, check out the cockpitweb thingy, but you need time for it to come through.

When it comes to PILAPT itself, the test is incredibly clear about what you need to do. Take all the time you need to read and understand the tests. As mentioned, it's about meeting baseline performance criteria and showing the ability to get better, even if you start off badly. There is no upper time limit to the overall PILAPT test. It ends when you get to the end.

Deviation is one thing that is performed multiple times. You get another chance.

Take all the opportunities in the test to use the practice time.

Where you have a max time within which to provide a decision, use it if you need to. Get the answer right, as quick as you can. Don't get it wrong as quick as you can! Use your head - consider when in real life you'd see a scenario that relates to this test.

Self-induced stress in this environment will hamper your ability. That's mental or physical stress. Mental stress induces a lock up in your brain. Physical stress can do the same and reduces your ability to, say, use a joystick smoothly, or hit the right keys. Take time between tests to rest and relax. During tests, keep breathing. Don't grip the joystick really tight, there's no need. And so on.

Go to the S2 day without too much emotion. Accept that by the time you get there, you can only do what you can do. Stay calm, be switched on and have faith in yourself. Sleep & breakfast are important, as is good hydration throughout the day.

One more thing. Don't even bother trying to compare yourself with other candidates. It's a total waste of time. Everyone's different in background and personality. Ignore the temptation to feel superior, inferior or in competition with these people. You are competing with CTC Standards, not the other candidates. If you meet that standard, you are going through. Arrogance is a killer in any selection process. Eliminate it from your own mind and be extremely wary of those who openly display such a trait, be it during selection or during training.

I hope this is of some value to someone. The best of luck to you all, I hope you are successful.

Trust me, it's all worthwhile.

[Fat A1bert]

Hi Linzi

I wouldn't dare suggest such a thing ;)! Value my life far too much to get caught up in a 'lady and her shoes' scrap! Learned that the hard way many years ago.

Good luck with the last bits - see you out there in a couple months.

FA

[stuartcameron82]

Tommyketch,

Best piece of advice i've read since looking through just about every note on Stage 2!
I have mine this friday and bricking it, to say the least...

I suppose after reading your post its good to be aprehensive but at the same time and most important, relaxed! My ex-flatmate flies out to NZ in a little over a week and he swears by this - relaxation and being "quietly confident" (yes rossco - you can explain this one to all us wannabes out there) and just to be yourself.

On another note, I very much agree with you on the Bill Handley Speed Mathematics book. Its an excellent book which opens your mind up to many new ways of calculation however if your going to learn them, then definitely take your time and try to get out of the habitual methods most of us were tought in school; use them in every day life and practise on even the most minor of situations.
I have been studying this book for a few weeks now and have also tried to exercise the methods by practising on timed pyschometric tests. At times, I found myself sometimes taking longer to do the "simple" calculations using his methods than ways i would normally have done, so be smart and if you choose to study his methods, just remember that whatever method you think is easiest will probably often be the quickest.


If anyone else is going to be there for the 9.30 "fun house grilling" this friday then i look forward to meeting you... i 'm looking forward to it!
And best of luck to anyone else who is about to undertake the second stage (or any other stage) for that matter

Stuart

The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Douglas Adams

[tommyketch]

Hi Stuart,

Cheers for the comment, glad you found the post useful! :)

The very best of luck to you on Friday.

Remember to have fun on the day! You will be fine, I'm sure.

TK

[SA242]

Agree with Stuart. Great post TK - thanks for the advice.

rgds

SA242

[babolat]

I have applied to the wings programme and have stage 2 coming up in a few months, and in the mean time, I'd like to get to know more about the programme.

Exactly, what makes the CTC programme unique, and how does a CTC Wings student differ from say, an integrated student at OAT or FTE, or from a modular student?

Another thing I'd like some of you guys to confirm is the following. CTC have the so called "Partner Airlines". Does this mean that CTC and the partner airlines agreed (by signing a CONTRACT) so that CTC trains pilots and the partner airlines employ the CTC pilots? Or is there some other form of agreement?