Other Events

[transwede]

737-300, en-route NCL-PMI, headlines bit extreme!

can't insert the link, but check out "terror at 33,00ft" (http://tinyurl.com/yl6flw)

[spannersatcx]

If it had cracked at 38,000ft, you dread to think what would have happened

Answer = nothing.

[fmgc]

Good God quite the most sensationalist article I have ever ever seen:

Terrified holidaymakers clung to their seats as a plane was forced to the ground when its windscreen shattered in mid-air.

I have had this happen to me, complete non event, that was in a 320 which is double layered, isn't a 737 triple layered so even more of a non event?

[Elixir]

"jolted to the left" - surely not a result of the windscreen cracking!!! possibly the most exaggerated article I've ever read.

[hobie]

In these cases where the Media clearly take over the story and turn the incident into a major drama why on earth do we give such Journalists and their articles "Airtime" on PPRuNe ..... :confused:

I sometimes wonder if PPRuNe are giving them a larger Internet readership than their own Newspaper/journal .... :(

[130.4]

Hi,

I'm not a professional pilot (only a recreational one) so I'm talking out of ignorance, but...

Why did the flight crew decide to make an unscheduled landing in France (or an "emergency landing" as the newspaper put it) in such case?

Announcing to the passengers that the windscreen has cracked can cause some of them to panic and do stupid (and very dangerous) things. Doesn't such danger from passengers outweigh the danger of carrying on to the final destination without telling anyone?

[fmgc]

I can not speak for the Boeing but in the Airbus the checks tell you to decend to (I think) FL230. In which case you might not have enough fuel to continue. Once on the ground though you are probably in a "no despatch" situation.

[BOAC]

The 737-300 can require an altitude as low as 13,000 feet, depending on which window and how it has cracked. Almost certainly a landing asap is a good idea and of course you might not be able to see very well as well!

I think this one can go to Spectators':)

[spannersatcx]

Once on the ground though you are probably in a "no despatch" situation.

Don't know about the 737/320 but the 330/340 can go for upto 10 flts with a crack in the outer layer, 747-200/400 1 flt only. Upto the Capt of course, I have dispatched about 3 or 4 in 20+ years with a cracked windscreen.

[Piltdown Man]

130.4 - Here's rough guess. You get a problem with the window, you read the checklist and probably find out that you get a speed restriction and have to avoid icing conditions. The more knowledgable Boeing drivers will, I'm sure, put me right. Then, as you have no imminent danger, consider other any operational aspects and then ask the company what they would prefer. Thomson, being a fairly nifty operator, determined that Bordeaux would be a good place for a rescue, the crew agreed and diverted there, "tuit suite".

Of course, I could be totally wrong. Maybe they were about to tailspin or something and the mobile childerens school, church, hospital and old people's home were all on their way to the scene of the impending crash.

PM

[fmgc]

This is the Code Of Conduct as set out by the Press Complaints Commission (http://www.pcc.org.uk/cop/practice.html).

This article breaks the code of conduct a number of times.

Do you think that the press get away with it all the time because nobody ever complains and that if we all complained more then we would get more accurate reporting as a matter of course?

[FlightDetent]

130.4:

You've been given all the answers but I have to say that your question is a very good one and I like it very much. I wonder if your thoughts are an example of "lateral thinking" (a term I still fail to grasp) but I very much think so.

In a pressurised commercial aeroplane, on an outbound leg, the crew probably did only have one choice. Then perhaps to please the passangers, they may have chosen to lie to them about the cause but it would not have worked anyway. Prooved.

Gliding makes you a different operator, but not a different pilot!

Welcome,

FD
(the un-real)

[G-BABG]

Can anyone throw any light on this one ? On Sat 28th a fellow pilot was listening in to Bristol Radar. He picked up references to a Dash 8 making 'a glide approach from 20 miles'. The a/c landed safely, and vacated the runway to taxiway Foxtrot(steering okay then) but was unable to taxi, and had to be towed to the stand. We believe the flight was Air South West WOW320, Manchester-Bristol. .

[Strepsils]

a glide approach

Double eng out?:bored: :\ :{ :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

Hopefully not as described but if so, bloody well done to the crew!:ok:

[AcroChik]

I can't find any additional information about this, but would be most interested in learning more if there is any more to be learned.

The most recent thing I can find regarding a Dash 8 emergency is at Manchester and is dated September 26, and is about the loss of an exhaust baffle from #2 and vibration due to prop-shaft bearing wear.

The same article refers to the airframe as a "passenger jet," and then goes on to describe its propellers. So, who can say that a single word is accurate? Oh, the media and aviation, where will it all end?

If there was a double engine out aboard that flight ~ 20 miles out ~ that was some nifty flyin'.

[Nov71]

What glide slope / altitude from 20 miles out would be reqd for this? in optimum conditions

I echo Strepsils sentiments

[Stone Cold II]

I just landed when the Air Southwest came in with a problem. Could not work out what the problem was other than they said they were not able to taxi and they requested a tug to pull them on to stand but I think that was not required after, didn't see a tug attached to them and both engines were working. Possible faulty indication.

[WindSheer]

Working at Bristol I would have heard of anything anywhere as near as serious as an engine failure..but nothing. Probably something that has been escalated....:ok:

[adverse-bump]

i believe it has a hyd problem, leak from no2 engine area. not sure abt the glide app. maybe a slip on the rt under high work load. ie "on the glide for 27r" could mean on the glide slope for 27r, or oh **** both engines are out and we're gliding for 27r.

[Silverspoonaviator]

if the normal power on is 300ft per nautical mile, and in my toy jet I can make a dead stick landing from double the normal approach profile, lets assume 600ft per nautical mile.

SO: 20 miles is about 12000 ft. This is sublect to the actual speed at the 20 mile point, if above the best L/D speed, then less altitude needed.

SilverS

[BOAC]

I suspect Post #7 has it, and I'm not sure EGGD has a 27R?:confused: . I do not fly turboprops but I suspect also that windmilling props may require a touch more than double the height?

[Strepsils]

BOAC - But the props shouldn't be windmilling, should they?;) Once you've run the checks they'll be feathered and causing minimal drag.

Never done it (thankfully) but was told to expect 1000ft/min ROD, and it wouldn't be that far off the usual 2-3 miles per 1000ft alt.

[BOAC]

Agreed - as I said, I don't know. What about EGGD 27R?:)

[Digby-dude]

Hi All,

Was on the 460 service from LHR to MAD today and after boarding we were told that due to a UG Door problem reported by the inbound crew we would be delayed for a while as it was being checked out by an Engineer.
Then a little later on the captain informed us that in fact the said UG door would not have closed after takeoff and that the plane was to be taken out of service. They promptly moved us to another 757 (ED) and got us to Madrid only 55 mins late.. Well done BA !!

Does anyone know what was up with the UG Door on ET? I saw when leaving the aircraft via steps at the rear door seeing the R/H Main UG door open so I guess that was the one in question??

Again, well done to BA, we were very impressed at the speedy recovery...

A.

[Bus429]

What is an "UG" door?

[Rainboe]

I think the problem was 'it wouldn't close after ATO' (that's 'after take-off' to those of us in the industry). No sir, you don't want to be up there with an UG door open! Whatever it is.
Could this be the first positive thread about BA this year?

[h73kr]

L.G. Door? U/C Door? No matter, couold have been several reasons, actuation, linkage, sensing, positioning......

[Digby-dude]

Apologies, I see now that it should have been in the spotters corner forum.

I am not in the industry and don't pretend to be either, was simply asking if anyone knew what exactly was wrong at the time. Just interested thats all. I fly with BA all the time at this was the first time that I was caught up in a minor technical issue.... just wanted to learn more about it....

I am still fairly new to PPrune, so please forgive us newbies if we post in the wrong forum at times....

Thanks.

A.

A=Adam

[hobie]

I am not in the industry and don't pretend to be either, was simply asking if anyone knew what exactly was wrong at the time. Just interested thats all. I fly with BA all the time at this was the first time that I was caught up in a minor technical issue.... just wanted to learn more about it....

I am still fairly new to PPrune, so please forgive us newbies if we post in the wrong forum at times....



As a valuable contributor to salaries in the aviation world (he who pays for the tickets) you have every right to ask a question ...... let's hope you don't run into anymore snags though ..... :ok:

[damagecontrol]

Hi all, I am new here and observed something yesterday that puzzled me, so I had to ask about this.
Yesterday at 18H28 pm a Airbus A340 took off from runway 21r at O.T. International and the landing gear never retracted for as far as I could see. I ran to my car and grabbed the camera, but it was so far, the photos are very bad. If anyone knows why the gear was out for so long, please let us know. I couldn't see what airline it was.:sad:

[lukeylad]

Im thinking it could have been just to let the brakes cool.

LL

[damagecontrol]

I also had that thought, but was unsure if they would do that when taking off from standing at the terminals??
Maybe another reason? Could they have forgotten to retract??

[Zeke]

The wheels are rotating at about 900 rpm on takeoff, normally on retraction brakes are automatically applied to stop the wheels from spinning.

If they have a brake unserviceable, the procedure is to keep the gear down for 2 minutes so the wheels can have a chance to stop spinning before retraction.

[damagecontrol]

You see, I don't know these things.
That's why I joined here. Learn something everyday!

[llondel]

I had the fun of flying out of Cork this evening. I thought it was a short runway (but it seems to be 6000') for a near-full 738 because the engines were wound right up with the aircraft shaking before the brakes got released with a thunk (and something clattering in the galley) and there wasn't much runway left as we got airborne. An interesting takeoff, anyway, is this normal for Cork?

Oh, and several minus points to whoever thought up the silly fanfare played to celebrate the on-time arrival of yet another flight, especially as we then sat on the taxiway at STN for a few minutes while an outbound aircraft cleared the gate area.

[llondel]

It probably wasn't full power, but it was certainly more than other recent flights I've been on,which is why I noticed it.

As for the delay at the end, I suspect we just brought Murphy along with us and he applied his law because we'd just had the daft fanfare when we stopped and waited a few minutes. In compensation, we did get the gate closest to the terminal so there was less walking to do. It was the new shed at north end of STN, so it's fairly recent investment. We obviously arrived about the time someone else pushed back and had to be disconnected from the tug and run his engines up before getting out of the way.

[barit1]

Safe touchdown & rollout - http://wbztv.com/

[Phil Space]

From the Eastern Daily Press
Plane made emergency stop in Norwich
30 August 2007 19:09
A KLM flight to Rotterdam had to make an emergency landing at Norwich Airport after its crew reported an engine failure.
The plane took off from Heathrow shortly before 6pm on Wednesday with 32 passengers and four crew on board.
When the captain realised there was a problem he was told to divert to Norwich International for an unscheduled stop.
Bart Koster, KLM spokesman, said: “It landed normally and the passengers and crew disembarked and were rebooked on flights to their destination. The plane remains at Norwich where ground crew have been sent to inspect it and discover what the problem was.
“It is rare but not so rare that we don't know what to do when it does happen. Although there was a failure in the engine it did not mean the plane would not have made it to Rotterdam but the captain took the decision to make a stop and get it checked out.”

[Avman]

Hmm, not entirely sure it was a KLM flight. Isn't VLM flying the route (with some flights operating as KLM codeshare flights)?

When the captain realised there was a problem he was told to divert to Norwich International for an unscheduled stop.

Presumably, it was suggested to him by ops to divert to NWI where FK50 maintenance facilities are available.

[niknak]

It was a KLM flight, KLM flight number (KLM1338), KLM aeroplane, KLM colour scheme, flown by KLM crews.

How much more evidence do you need?

[gofer]

It was a KLM flight, KLM flight number (KLM1338), KLM colour scheme,

The above is correct but....

With a cityhopper colour scheme - the aircraft is a VLM F50 that has a VLM crew who operate "on behalf of KLM"

Go here and then select find flight and search for LHR/RTM - on KL1338 click the F50 link (http://www.rotterdam-airport.nl/en/Homepage/)

[Delta Wun-Wun]

I think you`ll find that the Fokker 50 tab on the search shows you who flys F50`s into Rotterdam and where they go not who they code share with.:rolleyes:

[gofer]

:sad::= Stand corrected ... apologies all round :uhoh:

[Avman]

It was a KLM flight, KLM flight number (KLM1338), KLM aeroplane, KLM colour scheme, flown by KLM crews.

How much more evidence do you need?


Stay cool niknak or you might burst a blood vessel or three :} :)

[Routair]

Hello all

I just see that a BA (not sure on a/c type e.t.c..) has returned to LHR today due to a bird strike on the left wing. Caused some problems with the flaps when they were extended. A big old seagull was the victim.

Once again thats all ive been told, so if im wrong in anyway then im sorry:)

Rgds

[hotplane]

A bmi A320 turned back due to a bird strike, could it be this one?

[EGHI_or_bust]

From the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6981199.stm

[Localiser Green]

Only 50 passengers on a 757? :eek:

[londonmet]

End of holiday season. You'll probably find 235 passengers in Faro wondering why their flight is delayed though...

[haughtney1]

Heard the whole thing on Freq this morning.....no stress or hassle, they stopped climb at fl150, then descended to fl100..before getting vectors back to MAN.

[CherokeeDriver]

Daily Mail - Friday 7th September

Over 500 terrified passengers, seconds from suffocation, were forced to land at Manchester Airport early this morning after thier Boing holiday jet developed a lethal and unrecoverable fault. With the airport on full alert - fire engines and everything - the pilots grappled with the controls of the stricken aircraft to bring in the rogue jet to a stop on the runway, narrowly missing the approach roads to the airport.

Chardonney Smith, a terrified passenger on the jet, said that they had just started to get stuck into some Vodkas and WKDs on the 05:45am flight when the Captain - his voice quivering in terror - said they must return to Manchester or else they were doomed.

Once safely on the ground hoards of unqualified Eastern European illegal immigrant boffins boarded the stricken plane and, using cellotape and a paperclip, fixed the problem. After a prolonged delay the passengers - now hysterical with fear - boarded the jet and went on their way.

A spokesman for the aircraft operator said that there had been a minor problem with with a computer on board the aircraft, and engineers on the ground had advised the captain to return to base as a precaution.

This journalist has since discovered that computational machines are very unreliable on aircraft and very suceptible to lightening strikes and stray pidgeons. There have been at least 1 other case since 1934 of a Boeing 757 aircraft almost suffocating its helpless passengers because of computational failures.

[BOAC]

Thank you Cherokee - I enjoyed that.:ok:

[The Listener]

Has got 3 greens but indicates stuck nose wheel door...making his second approach now with request for services "just in case".

Listening out!

[RingwaySam]

So is this nose fully up or is it just a warning in the cockpit? Good luck to them...

[B777FD]

I didn't know Flybe operated to the USA. Hope it was uneventful though.

[The Listener]

Did a GA about 4 miles out and nose wheel "seemed to stay down. Went to the hold over GOW at 6000' for checks and has now reported indicating all gear down but has a stuck nose wheel door indication. Seems he is happy to continue to land on 23 but has reported PAN for services to be in attendance.

[gci2]

Nordic 5905 (An MD 82?)declared an emergency over LGKF at 16:30 GMT yesterday 19th Sept. This followed a very early 'go around' to Runway 32 and a similar approach to 14. They declared a Mayday and asked for an immediate routing to Athens due to low fuel. The flight was heading westerly at this time and took 5-10 mins to turn towards the Greek mainland. I got the impression they were eventually routed to Preveza. A TUI flight got into LGKF on 32 about 15 mins before the Nordic approach. Anyone have further info? Was Nordic 5905 originally destined for Kefalonia?

[Porrohman]

Some interesting photos here of an engine fire incident involving a Belgian Air Force A310 landing at Edinburgh on 9th September;
http://www.taxiwayalpha.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4294&st=0&#entry26865
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1262868&size=L
I think it's still at EDI awaiting repairs - maybe an engine change?

[Pull Up Whoop Whoop]

Heard a PAN call late morning from a BA aircraft in the London TMA, anyone know anything about it?

[Hotel Mode]

If you're referring to the BA154 it was a medical emergency.