A question about 'The Flag'.

[Dan Winterland]

I'm going to a German organised Oktoberfest on Friday with some German friends. (OK, I know it's technically in November, but this is in China). Would my renowned baritone rendition of 'The flag flies high from the masthead' be appropriate?

PS. Don't mention the war.

[alex_holbrook]

I think you mean 'Don't mention zer vor!!!'.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Probably better than my rendition of the Panzerlied!

[antipodean alligator]

I'm an avid singer of the Flag and have attempted to translate it back into German. On more than a few occasions I've asked current Luftwaffe lads to help me out in that department with no luck.

Anyone have the German lyrics? Or any other decent song auf Deutsch?

[The Swinging Monkey]

Does anyone have a set of the 'correct' lyrics ? (in English please)
Regards
TSM

[spectre150]

I only ever knew 2 verses. Are there more? I could type the words but the internet police would probably arrest me for typing 'Si*g He*l'. Alternatively I could ask the 2 German guys I work with for a translation but I am not very keen on hospital food so I will get my coat, call a taxi and leave.

[GPMG]

Perhaps this may raise a few eyebrows.

Horst Wessel Lied
Die Fahne hoch die Reihen fest geschlossen
S. A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit

Die Strasse frei den braunen Batallionen
Die Strasse frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann
Es schau'n auf's Hackenkreuz voll Hoffung schon Millionen
Der Tag fur Freiheit und fur Brot bricht an

Zum letzen Mal wird nun Appell geblasen
Zum Kampfe steh'n wir alle schon bereit
Bald flattern Hitler-fahnen Uber allen Strassen
Die Knechtschaft dauert nur mehr kurze Zeit

Die Fahne hoch die Reihen fest geschlossen
S. A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit

Translation
Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the red front and reaction
march in spirit with us in our ranks.

The street free for the brown battalions,
The street free for the Storm Troopers.
Millions, full of hope, look up at the swastika;
The day breaks for freedom and for bread.

For the last time the call will now be blown;
For the struggle now we all stand ready.
Soon will fly Hitler-flags over every street;
Slavery will last only a short time longer.

Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the red front and reaction
march in spirit with us in our ranks.

[antipodean alligator]

GPMG - If the Luftwaffe 'Flag' was a possibility of raising eyebrows then I guess the Horst Wessel Lied is a Cert!

[Zoom]

Hmmm. Looks nothing like the one I used to enjoy singing, especially outside Smoky Joe's (?) in East Berlin in the good old days. But whatever the words, I wouldn't embarrass my German friends by singing it at an Oktoberfest if I was you, Dan.

[Dave Roome]

The Flag flies high on the masthead,
We'll drink to the glory of the Reich.
No longer will we tremble,
At England's military might.

Chorus:
So give to me your hand, Fraulein.
Your lily-white hand, Fraulein
For tonight we march against England,
England's island shores, island shores, island shores,
Sieg Heil!

And if I fall in battle
And sink to the bottom of the sea (Big splash!)
Remember this, my Fraulein,
My blood was spilt for thee!

So give to me, your hand, Fraulein
etc etc

[GengisKhant]

Dan Winterland

Don't do anything until an hour or so into the celebrations, and if the party is any good at all, no-one will notice what you are singing or probably hear you above the general din....., but every ten minutes or so, in the best British tradition...., get up on the table....., drop your lederhosen and give them Oggy... Oggy... Oggy and see what transpires.....!!! The Chinese will probably think its a well practised Western custom and join in....

By the way, this years Munich Oktober BeerFest was the last week in September..., managed Monday and Tuesday evenings and good time was had by all....., so nothing new in this festivity falling outside the month of October...!!!

Anyway..., the most imprtant thing is to have a good time....,

GengisK :ok:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Have a look at http://www.germaniainternational.com/luft3.html. Providing you talk it over with your German friends first, I don't see a problem with this. If you pick the song carefully, no offence should be taken (famous last words!) A traditional Unit song is still that, no matter which war it was sung in. Best to avoid Wir Fliegen Gegen England, though.

DISCLAIMER.

All adverts seen here are nothing to do with me.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

When on TTTE at Cottesmore, I was invited to a BBQ at one of my German friends house, and performed the Flag quite late on in the evening.

It was received in stunned silence, apart from the quiet sobbing of my host's wife. It may have been my John Cleese goose step that clinched it.

I was given a lift home shortly after.

So, I'd say it would be a bad idea.

[Red Line Entry]

I'd previously found this site: http://ingeb.org/Lieder/heutewow.html
which has these lyrics:

1. Heute wollen wir ein Liedlein singen,
Trinken wollen wir den kühlen Wein
Und die Gläser sollen dazu klingen,
Denn es muß, es muß geschieden sein.
Refrain:
Gib' mir deine Hand, deine weiße Hand,
Leb' wohl, mein Schatz, leb' wohl mein Schatz,
Leb' wohl, lebe wohl
Denn wir fahren, denn wir fahren,
Denn wir fahren gegen Engeland, Engeland.
2. Unsre Flagge und die wehet auf dem Maste,
Sie verkündet unsres Reiches Macht,
Denn wir wollen es nicht länger leiden,
Daß der Englischmann darüber lacht.
Refrain:
3. Kommt die Kunde, daß ich bin gefallen,
Daß ich schlafe in der Meeresflut,
Weine nicht um mich, mein Schatz, und denke:
Für das Vaterland da floß sein Blut.
Refrain:

It's not exactly the same as the English version (well, it's in German for a start), but it's close enough.
But to be honest, I think you're best NOT singing it or any other WW2 song. If you really want to do something of that ilk, then the least offensive is probably Lili Marleen:

1. Vor der Kaserne
Vor dem großen Tor
Stand eine Laterne
Und steht sie noch davor
So woll'n wir uns da wieder seh'n
Bei der Laterne wollen wir steh'n
|: Wie einst Lili Marleen. :|

2. Unsere beide Schatten
Sah'n wie einer aus
Daß wir so lieb uns hatten
Das sah man gleich daraus
Und alle Leute soll'n es seh'n
Wenn wir bei der Laterne steh'n
|: Wie einst Lili Marleen. :|

3. Schon rief der Posten,
Sie blasen Zapfenstreich
Das kann drei Tage kosten
Kam'rad, ich komm sogleich
Da sagten wir auf Wiedersehen
Wie gerne wollt ich mit dir geh'n
|: Mit dir Lili Marleen. :|

4. Deine Schritte kennt sie,
Deinen zieren Gang
Alle Abend brennt sie,
Doch mich vergaß sie lang
Und sollte mir ein Leids gescheh'n
Wer wird bei der Laterne stehen
|: Mit dir Lili Marleen? :|

5. Aus dem stillen Raume,
Aus der Erde Grund
Hebt mich wie im Traume
Dein verliebter Mund
Wenn sich die späten Nebel drehn
Werd' ich bei der Laterne steh'n
|: Wie einst Lili Marleen. :|

fairly literal tr. by Frank, 1998

At the barracks compound,
By the entry way
There a lantern I found
And if it stands today
Then we'll see each other again
Near that old lantern we'll remain
As once Lili Marleen.

Both our shadows meeting,
Melding into one
Our love was not fleeting
And plain to everyone,
Then all the people shall behold
When we stand by that lantern old
As once Lili Marleen.

Then the guard to me says:
"There's tap call, let's go.
This could cost you three days."
"Be there in half a mo'."
So that was when we said farewell,
Tho' with you I would rather dwell,
With you, Lili Marleen.

4. Well she knows your foot steps,
Your own determined gait.
Ev'ry evening waiting,
Me? A mem'ry of late.
Should something e'er happen to me,
Who will under the lantern be,
With you Lili Marleen?

5. From my quiet existence,
And from this earthly pale,
Like a dream you free me,
With your lips so hale.
When the night mists swirl and churn,
Then to that lantern I'll return,
As once Lili Marleen.


The WW2 English Version (c/o Vera Lynn and a bit more cheerful!)


Underneath the lantern,
By the barrack gate
Darling I remember
The way you used to wait
T'was there that you whispered tenderly,
That you loved me,
You'd always be,
My Lilli of the Lamplight,
My own Lilli Marlene

Time would come for roll call,
Time for us to part,
Darling I'd caress you
And press you to my heart,
And there 'neath that far-off lantern light,
I'd hold you tight ,
We'd kiss good night,
My Lilli of the Lamplight,
My own Lilli Marlene

Orders came for sailing,
Somewhere over there
All confined to barracks
was more than I could bear
I knew you were waiting in the street
I heard your feet,
But could not meet,
My Lilly of the Lamplight,
my own Lilly Marlene

Resting in our billets,
Just behind the lines
Even tho' we're parted,
Your lips are close to mine
You wait where that lantern softly gleams,
Your sweet face seems
To haunt my dreams
My Lilly of the Lamplight,
My own Lilly Marlene

[BEagle]

Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqlE9eNWYj4

Ob's stürmt oder schneit,
Ob die Sonne uns lacht,
Der Tag glühend heiß
Oder eiskalt die Nacht.
Bestaubt sind die Gesichter,
Doch froh ist unser Sinn,
Ist unser Sinn;
Es braust unser Panzer
Im Sturmwind dahin.

Mit donnernden Motoren,
Geschwind wie der Blitz,
Dem Feinde entgegen,
Im Panzer geschützt.
Voraus den Kameraden,
Im Kampf steh'n wir allein,
Steh'n wir allein,
So stoßen wir tief
In die feindlichen Reihn.

Wenn vor uns ein feindliches
Heer dann erscheint,
Wird Vollgas gegeben
Und ran an den Feind!
Was gilt denn unser Leben
Für unsres Reiches Heer?
Ja Reiches Heer?
Für Deutschland zu sterben
Ist uns höchste Ehr.

Mit Sperren und Minen
Hält der Gegner uns auf,
Wir lachen darüber
Und fahren nicht drauf.
Und droh'n vor uns Geschütze,
Versteckt im gelben Sand,
Im gelben Sand,
Wir suchen uns Wege,
Die keiner sonst fand.

Und läßt uns im Stich
Einst das treulose Glück,
Und kehren wir nicht mehr
Zur Heimat zurück,
Trifft uns die Todeskugel,
Ruft uns das Schicksal ab,
Ja Schicksal ab,
Dann wird uns der Panzer
Ein ehernes Grab.

Also at http://www.rctankcombat.com/audio/obssturb.mp3

[k3k3]

Apart from Lili Marleen, I wouldn't touch any of those songs with a barge pole if you don't want your German friends to become your German ex-friends.

I can't think of anything more obnoxious in modern German society than to equate todays Germany to anything that came out the "National Socialist Terror Regime" as the period 1933-1945 is now referred to.

[QFIhawkman]

Apart from Lili Marleen, I wouldn't touch any of those songs with a barge pole if you don't want your German friends to become your German ex-friends.

I can't think of anything more obnoxious in modern German society than to equate todays Germany to anything that came out the "National Socialist Terror Regime" as the period 1933-1945 is now referred to.

I couldn't agree more.

The whole idea of singing the Flag is a pretty stupid one if I may say so. PC rubbish aside, if you have German colleagues, the last thing they want to hear is your badly pronounced rendition of an old Nazi song.

What came over you for God's sake?

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Before we get carried away, lads, let's remember that not every German military song "came out the "National Socialist Terror Regime"". Many of them date from before Germany was unified and from Imperial Austria. If he wants to sing one that his German friends are happy with, then what's the problem? Is starting a war that you lose a disqualification to having a military history and culture? The Treaty of Versailles robbed the Germans of their dignity and it seems odd that nothing has been learned from that. Apart from a couple of megalomaniac inspired aberrations, they have a proud and honourable history. It's little wonder that they are reluctant to put combat Units in the field with this continuing over sensitivity.

[k3k3]

I suggest you look at the origins of the miltary songs quoted, I think you'll find they all came from the time of the "aberrations". The Imperial German and Austro-Hungarian Empires didn't have panzers or Brownshirts, nor did they march against England,

You are right, there are plenty of good German military songs, but none of those above are in that category.

[Specaircrew]

I'd forget the singing and stick to the Morris Dancing :)

[The B Word]

Dragging this one up from the depths (pun intended), “The Flag” is actually a b@st@rdised version of “Engelandlied” which is a Kaiserliche Marine (German Imperial Navy) song. You can see the similarities in the song (give it a chance as it takes a wee while to get going!).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5nMr-rjRoZM

Now what is the connection to the RAF? Well, in 1940 the Nazi propaganda machine re-recorded the song and made postcards for the Luftwaffe, Weirmacht and Kriegsmarine for their service personnel to use - the song was “Engelandlied” or otherwise known as wir fahren gegen Engeland. The song was also constantly played on the radio and the RAF Aircrew picked up on it and made their up their own version (suitably embellished to take the p!ss out of their enemies). Here is a postcard example:

https://static2.akpool.de/images/cards/1016/10162808.jpg

Here is the Stuka version:

https://static1.akpool.de/images/cards/214/2140473.jpg

This is the later version, which is very similar, but is slowed down to something many of us might recognise:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hrQCgDdw3uQ

So it is an RAF Aircrew tradition that goes back to 1940, the Battle of Britain and The Few. We should ensure that the story is remembered for future generations to realise the debt we all owe to The Few and how the started the very beginning of the end.

[ORAC]

The Imperial German and Austro-Hungarian Empires didn't have panzers nor did they march against England, I believe WWI applies, both panzers and the Imperial German (Zeppelins, Gotha etc) and Austro-Hungarian Empire parts - in fact the latter sort of started the whole thing off....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/German-Panzers-1914-18-New-Vanguard/dp/1841769452

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_Aviation_Troops

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_strategic_bombing_during_World_War_I

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2005688564/

[BEagle]

An F-4 nav once told me that, back in Cold War times, he'd been on a detachment which was visiting a Luftwaffe base. During the evening, some of them thought that it would be fun to sing "The Flag" - so they did. Much tutting and muttering from their hosts, most of whom promptly left the bar.

The RAF boss was mentally composing his speech for the Axminster Shuffle which he thought would inevitably be coming his way once back in Blighty, when the door crashed open. In marched the Luftwaffe mates, loudly singing the original version. Once they'd finished, their Boss said "If you Brits must sing that song, at least get the words right!". Much beer and bonhomie then flowed!

[Wander00]

Well, that all cheered an otherwise fairly dull morning

[hunterboy]

I would suspect that the subtlety of a pre Nazi song would be lost on the German hosts and taken as an insult, whether intentional or not , as a reference to the Nazi regime.
Why not bring something new to the party and sing an English drinking song?

[ORAC]

The problem, I suspect, is that as with uniforms, they had better ones than we did. Tipperary and White Cliffs of Dover just don't make the cut.

[pettinger93]

A few years ago, at a rather drunken wedding event in Hamburg, ( with military connections) my wife and I were the only English in a large hall of Germans (and few Danes). We had obviously not been noticed, as WW2 songs were sung freely by many Germans. During one speech by an older man, my Danish friends went very quiet, and refused to translate what was said, though we got the gist of it, which was unpleasantly Nazi and anti British in tone and which got much applause. We didn't stay long. So I would recommend avoiding ANY nationalist songs, of either country, at least until everyone is too drunk to notice.

[hunterboy]

I don’t doubt that if you went somewhere similar in Northern England and said much the same about certain minorities/ethnic origins, that you wouldn’t get a similar reaction.
Incidently, I’d have been tempted to break the habit of a lifetime in the above situation and remind them of the war. Then again, discretion is always the better part of valour.

[Dougie M]

After a mostly European Flying Exercise the R.A.F. crew including myself were asked to perform a national song. We found that a rendition of "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" with the silent verse and the actions was universally well received.