Helo Rollover/Blow over at Scatsta

[cyclic gal]

Witness reports Helo on its side with Emerg. Services in attendance at Scatsta, Shetland. Any news anyone

[simfly]

It was being towed, rotors were not turning. All the offshore flights were on hold as weather offshore bad. Wind was not that great at the time, around 35 knots, but nasty squalls around shetland / north scotland at the moment. Just to confirm, nobody hurt and all, and the flights from Scatsta have been cancelled due to offshore weather, not because of the incident.

[cyclic gal]

Thanks for that. Brother flying East Shetland basin (somewhere).

[Sailor Vee]

In another life as a Type Tech Pilot on 332s, I issued an edict that the machines had to have both doors open when being towed in wind speeds above 30 kts. If you didn't they were likely to fall over in the turns! Sounds as if this could have been the problem!

[Pat Gerard]

SIMFLY

Where did you get your facts ? Where you in Scatsta at the time ?

[simfly]

Pat, if it is incorrect then apologies, but that is what a few of your colleagues have told me directly, (and what their clients were told), and the purpose of my post was to quell any rumours of a non-existant major incident, and stop any press starting to exaggerate what actually happend and getting people worried (like the topic starter may have been....) As you were there do you want to shed more light?

What I know are facts are 1. The flights were on held due to winds / seas offshore 2. The actual at the time was giving around 30-35 knots 3.It was under tow without any moving parts on the helicopter 4. There were no injuries, that's the main thing!

link to bbc report:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/6102566.stm

[rab-k]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/uk_enl_1162313143/img/1.jpg

SCATSTA - EGPM 1150z 35032G43KT 9999 VCSH SCT015 O7/01 Q1002 NOSIG

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/6102566.stm

http://www.bristowgroup.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetland_Islands

[Dude~]

Doh! I guess they weren't expecting the wind - there was no mention of impending gales like there were last week, although the TAF for Lossie this morning did mention 60kt gusts. Surprised the MetOffice hadn't issued a severe weather warning.

[bravo 4 golf]

they were caught by surprise ! aircraft out for a while !
all fixed wing flights from abz to scs canx by lunch time due to the gusting wind.

[EGAC]

I heard the the Met Office shipping forecast at 12-45 am before turning in and it said "severe gale - force 9, rising to violent storm - force 11, possibly hurricane - force 12".

I don't what actually materialised but that's the first time I've heard such a forecast for these waters.

[tascats]

http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/450011190/6.jpg

[Loose rivets]

Anyone know the long term average W/V at Shetland?

[212man]

EGAC, you obviously haven't seen too many Northern North Sea winters!

[Oggy]

Aircraft turns over but fails to start?:)

[ppheli]

see also http://www.shetlandtoday.co.uk/shetlandtimes/content_details.asp?ContentID=20592

[StraightLevel]

Wx statistics are available from the Met Office website.

Log onto the secure avaition section and goto Climate Statistics.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/index.html

[UKpaxman]

I heard the the Met Office shipping forecast at 12-45 am before turning in and it said "severe gale - force 9, rising to violent storm - force 11, possibly hurricane - force 12".
I don't what actually materialised but that's the first time I've heard such a forecast for these waters.

Through the winter there will be on average 2-3 occassions when the storms over Shetland are force 12 - you just batten down the hatches. Most things are built with these conditions in mind. Twice in the last 15 years I experienced winds just over 100 mph, first time was early 90's where the gusts in the far north of the isles were measured at 168 mph. Two birdwatchers were killed when their chalet was blown clean over a cliff.

Back on aircraft stuff - I do remember BA landing an ATP at Sumburgh on a day when they were experiencing hurricane force winds, don't know what the conditions were like when they landed but they did measure 105 mph at the airfield on the day. The wind was straight up and down the runway and I was amazed that they were even trying to land on the day.

[ChristiaanJ]

Sorry, but the BBC news link no longer works.

Was it blown over becoz not tied down, or did it roll over during landing or T/O?

[Eff Oh]

As the blades are still attatched and intact, then it would be safe to say the engines were shut down. ie Blown over whilst parked.

[pumaboy]

Any one with better pictures?

It must have been a roll-over week!!

[ChristiaanJ]

Thanks Eff Oh, I should have seen that myself.

[bravo 4 golf]

the aircraft was being towed out of the hangar and was blown over . No pax or crew onboard !

[mazakari]

the aircraft was being towed out of the hangar and was blown over . No pax or crew onboard !

If the aircraft was being towed, shouldn't someone have been inside covering the brakes ?? Not that it would have helped but procedures are procedures ............

Glad there were no injuries though.

maz

[ChristiaanJ]

B4G,
Thanks!
I worked with Bristow a very long time back, hence my interest.

Looks repairable, although the bill will clearly include a few new rotor blades. And if I was responsible, I'd have a very long and hard look at the main transmission gearbox, too... I'm sure they will.

[IronHen]

Anyone know the long term average W/V at Shetland?
... I seem to remember it was 12 kts average throughout the year.
There was once a storm that registered 160 kts or 176 kts in Unst but confirmation of an official record was denied as the met station was destroyed - it blew away!!

[Encyclo]

At least the tug/tractor stayed upright:}

[Mister Geezer]

Shame it was one of the helis in the new livery!!!

[Impress to inflate]

Spent 4-5 years in the shetlands and reguly saw gale force 11 to 12. I worked in the Brent field for 6 years and saw a gust of 167 knots. We were given plenty of warning to batten down the hatches and secure the boat.

[Mister Geezer]

I am sure a similar incident happened in the days of when British World operated their ATR72s to Sumburgh. Think one suffered the effect of the wind and was blown over slightly so that it came to rest leaning on a wing tip?

[UKpaxman]

I am sure a similar incident happened in the days of when British World operated their ATR72s to Sumburgh. Think one suffered the effect of the wind and was blown over slightly so that it came to rest leaning on a wing tip?

Yep, I remember that. The ATR used to arrive first thing with a load of pax and the return to ABZ empty for the next load. I think it was just setting off from the terminal building and did a turn at very low speed and was caught by a gust. I did a few trips on the empty plane from Sumburgh and it's take off and climb rate into a strong headwind was very impressive for a turboprop.

p.s. don't forget the poor old Shorts 330 that was blown over at Scatsta on it's stopover one night - very indignant.

[rotorspeed]

So anyone like to guess how much the repair bill will be? And what should have been done to avoid this happening?

[ChristiaanJ]

...And what should have been done to avoid this happening?Maybe they shouldn't have towed it out of the hangar in a howling gale in the first place?

[Overt Auk]

CJ

good idea. Don't let the helicopters out of the hangar on Shetland when the wind is over 30 knots.

That should give us all a good long winter break.

OA

[ChristiaanJ]

Overt Auk,
It would also reduce the bill for new rotor blades.....

Must have been gusting a lot more than 30 kts, though, for that to happen. Unless something went screwy...

[HOGE]

Ahh, takes me back to those halcyon days approaching Unst in the back of a Dash 7, the gusts, the buffeting, the screaming.:eek:

[pumaboy]

CJ

good idea. Don't let the helicopters out of the hangar on Shetland when the wind is over 30 knots.

That should give us all a good long winter break.

OA

How much ballast was on the machine when it rolled over and were the cabin doors opened.

This is not the first time a Puma has rolled over in windy condition's and seem's like it won't be the last.

[shetlander]

Hello

Ok i feel the need to get involved since Scatsta is only 20 miles north of my house.

As Puma-Boy say's; Its not the first time that a helicopter has rolled in and around Shetland in windy conditions.

Here is What happens when it rolls on a Heli-Deck on a Ship just off the coast of Shetland.

http://shetlandcoastguard.co.uk/sitepictures/navion42efe5fc346.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1650000/images/_1652970_copter300.jpg

Quotes from that incident "the crew were very lucky to escape more serious injuries" - this was said after it was revealed that the co-pilot suffered a broken leg after being hit with debris from the rotors.
Cheers,
Shetlander:cool:

[ChristiaanJ]

Ahh, takes me back to those halcyon days approaching Unst in the back of a Dash 7, the gusts, the buffeting, the screaming.:eek:How prudish....
That should have read: "the gusts, the buffeting, the screaming, the barfbags..."

[OffshoreHeli]

There was a ATP that scrapped a wing on take and had to divert to Lossiemouth to do a flaps up landing.
The aircraft on the West Navion was not wind related but due to the ships autopilot going offline and nobody noticed until it had gone through **degrees. at this point the autopilot was re-engaged and the thrusters came on full power. This with the Pitching/Roll moment of the ship was enough to tip the aircraft over. The co-pilot was seriously injured and nearly lost his leg but for the prompt action of the ships crew.
35 page accident report at the following link http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/sites/aaib/cms_resources/dft_avsafety_pdf_029265.pdf

[HeliComparator]

Sorry OffshoreHeli you are not correct in asserting that wind was not the causal factor in the West Navion accident. Have a look at page 25 of the report you link to - the primary factor causing rollover is cited to be wind. There was no detectable lateral acceleration caused by the thrusters - this was hearsay at the time but is incorrect.

Contributory factors were the motion of the vessel due to the sea state, its list and the fact that the aircraft was not parrallel to the deck (on this type, the parking brake can hold the wheels so that the aircraft is not level to the deck)

HC

[OffshoreHeli]

Yes you are right I should have read it myself. Did not realise they had not activated the Thrusters.

In attempting to analyse the dynamics of the accident by numerical methods, it became apparent that the various agencies involved came up with differing 'solutions', despite the fact that all were working from a common set of input data.

I was never good at maths myself.