6 weeks enough for PPL

[cityjet]

Hi Eveyone,

I'm finally going to be finishing my PPL next year. I really am just an amateur i only have 5 flying hours under my belt at the moment. I am going to take 6 weeks off in the month of May / June and complete my PPL. Is that enough time? Im not sure how many more flying hours i might do before now and then. My schedule is very hectic, i assume it would make sense to do the theory before i leave???
Is the weather in Florida ok during the month of May / June?
One final question, where would you recommend to do the training. Everyone gives such different options of training methods and approaches and of for sure which school you should go to.
A constructive option would be great!

Thanks all


Frank

[Mercenary Pilot]

Six weeks should be fine but I recommend getting the exams done before going.

Do a search on U.S. flight schools and have a look at the sticky at the top of this forum for more information. There is alot of information on PPRuNE about all these topics.

Have fun and good luck.

:ok:

[BigGrecian]

Some schools offer a Fast Track PPL - 3 weeks - it's very tough going but for an above average student who did the ground studying and some/all exams before arriving - achievable - it has been done.

[Egnatia Instructor]

Ive found six weeks to be enough time to get the PPL and enjoy it at the same time, but as said, get the exams done first, that way once the flyings done, you can enjoy what's left of the day.

Enjoy
EI

[Hour Builder]

I agree with whats mentioned above. It took me 4 weeks having done no studying before I went. I would again, recommend doing all the exams before going.

In 6 weeks I bet you could go from 0--->FAA CPL at a push :ok:

[wheelyman]

I trained in Florida - Orlando Flight training in Kissimmee. I was out there for 3 weeks in March April 2003 and was pretty unlucky with the weather. Only did 43 Hours, with no time for Test. Also did all my exams out there in this space.

I came back (to Teesside) to complete, and had to do a further 4 hours to get used to UK weather/RT etc

I, personaly, would recommend doing about 40 Hous in florida (or wherever ) and completing in the UK.

I recently started som IMC groud school and quickly realised that there was a lot that those guys out there did not teach me.

But.. six weeks would be ample time, you are only talking about an hour per day!!

[tangovictor]

Frank, why spend your money in the US ? May / June / July the weather here in the UK should be just as good, infact not as hot as Florida, read all the previous threads re this, It would appear, its not as "cheap " as first thought in the US

[Hour Builder]

my not be as cheap as 1st thought, but i'd say its about 1/2 the price then the UK. Some schools quote a fee and include, accomodation, airport transfers, tsa/visa/sevis fees, £250 worth of study material....

[tangovictor]

they do, there was a thread similar to this some time back, all that glitters is not gold ! and, I can recall someone saying, upon returning from the US it took hours of UK flying to get up to speed here,
It doesn't bother me one way or the other, I just feel, if your going to fly here, learn here.

[Hour Builder]

ya i would agree to some point, but my thinking is...and this is based on what i did.

get ppl in usa for £2700..a few yrs back, has gone up since.
then do a few dual hours here when you get back. 5 hours will still cost less in the long run. I know the ppl in usa costs more then £2700 eg flights, food etc etc, but it still worked out cheaper.

HB

[IO540]

Yes, countless threads here on this subject...

The cost differential UK v. USA is a lot less than it used to be. Renting in the UK has been in the region of £100/hour (plus instructor time) since I started flying 5-6 years ago, and back then you could rent the same spamcan over there for £30/hour, but when I was in Arizona earlier this year it was about double that.

Factor into that your time, the hassle with TSA and Visa issues (allow 2 months of paper pushing to get that lot done; email me if you need a step by step guide), food, accommodation.... even if you are young single unemployed and nobody loves you, the only thing which the USA has going for it is the good weather (in Arizona or S. California).

However, if you are a professional/business type, with a decent flying budget and you are doing this for real, to eventually buy a plane and go places, then you should be be looking at doing a standalone FAA PPL and IR, and you can't do an ab initio FAA PPL in the UK (can't fly here on the US Student Pilot Certificate, not to mention other issues). Then you are better off doing the lot, or the FAA PPL initially, in the USA.

For everybody else, you would achieve the same rapid learning if you pick a decent school and shack up next door to it in a B&B and live there for a few weeks, in the summer.

[tangovictor]

I totally agree with I0540's comments, Im taking my nppl rather than ppl
and its working out much less than your going to pay in the US,
and no out of country expense's

[englishal]

If you have the time:

Flight to LA: £350
Hotel for 6 weeks: £1000
50 hours PPL package (all in): £4,051

(example taken from one well known outfit which includes everything you need, including ground exam, medical and flight test fee)

Total: £5,401 for everything......guaranteed not nuch weather standby time.

In the UK:

50 hour PPL course £6,500 including ground exams for a similar aeroplane
Landing fees ~£250
Club membership (?) £?

In reality not many people complete a PPL in under 50 hours.

Not knocking learning in the UK. However, the USA IS cheaper, and if you have the time can be a brilliant holiday. You may even learn to lean properly if you go to the west coast :p ;)

[tangovictor]

If you have the time:
Flight to LA: £350
Hotel for 6 weeks: £1000
50 hours PPL package (all in): £4,051
(example taken from one well known outfit which includes everything you need, including ground exam, medical and flight test fee)
Total: £5,401 for everything......guaranteed not nuch weather standby time.
In the UK:
50 hour PPL course £6,500 including ground exams for a similar aeroplane
Landing fees ~£250
Club membership (?) £?
In reality not many people complete a PPL in under 50 hours.
Not knocking learning in the UK. However, the USA IS cheaper, and if you have the time can be a brilliant holiday. You may even learn to lean properly if you go to the west coast :p ;)

if your going to make comparisons, please do it fairly
I just looked at one school via the loop website, UK ppl £5500 inc g/school
landing fee's are usually included in the fee
the 50 hours would be the same UK or US
the original poster said May/June/July so the weather in the UK should be fine
the big worry, to me anyway, would be, not finishing your ppl in the US before
you have to return home, without completing it.
also £350 isn't a return flight
£1000 hotel fee, + when your away, every single thing you do, costs

[Leezyjet]

Try South Africa. No visa hassles, and still good weather. The exchange rate is pretty good too at the moment.

Granted it won't be a JAA PPL, but you can still fly here just fine on an ICAO PPL with no restrictions providing you stay within the UK. It gets a bit more complicated if you want to go over the channel, not impossible just more complicated.

I did my PPL 0-42 hours in 19 days. 15 flying days and 4 days ground school, although I did have a good understanding of the groundschool stuff and had flown powered gliders when I was younger so knew all the basic straight and level and what the controls do malarky.

Cost £3300 including accomodation and all the bits and bobs I needed.

:ok:

[englishal]

if your going to make comparisons, please do it fairly
I just looked at one school via the loop website, UK ppl £5500 inc g/school
landing fee's are usually included in the fee
the 50 hours would be the same UK or US
the original poster said May/June/July so the weather in the UK should be fine
the big worry, to me anyway, would be, not finishing your ppl in the US before
you have to return home, without completing it.
also £350 isn't a return flight
£1000 hotel fee, + when your away, every single thing you do, costs
I did. I used a "well known flight school" which quoted as you say around £5500 + VAT which when pro-rated to 50 hours (The US course includes 50 hours, theirs is a 45 hour course) actually gives more like £7,000. Plus landing fees at £20 per pop which are not included, reduced to 33% for a "touch and go". Away landings are charged at cost.

6 weeks is plenty for a PPL. £350 could be a return flight depending on exact dates, I have just bought a BA return to LAX (in November) for £250 return. The Long Beach Guest House Hotel costs $40 per night on the special deal many of the flight schools at the airport have with them (significantly discounted rate) which equals ~$1700 which is less than £1000 at todays rate. As the rate is per room, the room can be shared (normally have 2 double beds in each room) and you still pay the same price. Transport is free, so no hire car needed. I haven't bothered to include food, as you have to eat whatever country you are in......though food may well be cheaper in the USA anyway.

[Kangaroo89]

You'll be able to do the theory quickly enough. I only started reading the PPL theory book on Tuesday, fitting that study around my Year 12 work, and I managed to pass the test on Saturday no worries.

If time is more of an issue than money, then I'd pay more attention to where good weather is, than the cost. Then again, no one can predict the weather...

[ChrisVJ]

Better still get together with a couple of other people from the flight school and rent an apartment. Most have nice pools. May June is cheaper than July August too. You can cook but it is also easy to get take out food cheap around Kissimmee so save on meals.

Makes a great holiday too. If you have not been before treat yourself to a pass for Disney,

The very worst kind of American glitz and I love the place!

[Monocock]

Most have nice pools
treat yourself to a pass for Disney

Six weeks in the USA to do a PPL and I think it's unlikely that "cityjet" will have time to laze by the pool and go off cuddling Mickey.

My view on this echoes tangovictor's. If your weighing up the differences between the the US and the UK I do believe the benefit of cost has gradually eroded away over time in the US. The UK's clubs are offering some great deals in certain places and you will be doing it at the time of year with the most daylight hours and the likeliest chance of some good weather.

Does it HAVE to be done in six weeks. If it crept into seven or eight would that be a disaster?

[IO540]

A comparison will always be difficult because people that go to the USA have set aside 6 weeks or whatever, whereas people doing it in the UK are trying to slot it into their lives.

Sure the USA will be cheaper than the UK; the question is whether it's worth the extra trouble, and that has to be an individual decision. Some people will go to any hassle to save 10%. I would be suprised if it was more than 20%, by the time one has allowed for food (most American food is absolute trash and they are ahead of even the UK for obesity; for a 6wk stay you probably will have to go shopping and buy your own stuff; self catering).

The average PPL in the UK is probably about £8000 nowadays. This is based on the average time of about 60 hours. Younger people will do it in less (few, very few, do it in 45); older (50+) people often take 80 and I have met loads of 100+ hour students, mostly people in their 60s and over. I've met some £20,000 PPLs although I suspect a crooked school/instructor in those cases. Mine took 66 (early 40s and probably average natural flying ability) and cost £8500.

In the USA, this will definitely cost less, but then you can't mess around out there because your airline tickets and the Visa will expire :) You have to get your head down and get on with it. It will not be a holiday. One cannot take the risk of taking it easy and not completing; if that happens you will probably never come back. If I had failed my IR I would not have gone back and done it again (too hard and too much peripheral hassle).

A South African PPL is indeed an ICAO PPL but unless you just want a plain PPL it is a dead end. Once not doing a UK/JAA one, the FAA one is the only one worth doing because you can find FAA CFIs for the BFR relatively easily, etc. And the route to the IR is also well defined. Let's say one day you do the IR - are you going to be flying a SA-reg plane in the UK, to get the privileges of the IR? In flying, one needs to think ahead.

The real challenge if doing a rapid PPL, UK or USA, is to find a well organised school. It will have to be a bigger school with plenty of instructors and planes, so there is always a way to fly that day. My experience is obviously limited but I bet it's a lot easier to find such a school in the USA. The UK flight training business is for most part pretty dis-organised.

I would also go to Arizona or S California - guaranteed weather.

[scooter boy]

My dad did UK PPL 20 years or so ago and it took him over a year flying out of a muddy field in the North UK. Weather, lesson scheduling, his job and aircraft downtime were all to blame but he persevered and finished his license.

At 76 he still flies and enjoys every second of it, now on NPPL rather than PPL due to less stringent medical requirements.

In 1994 I had 2 weeks free between jobs and travelled to Van Nuys CA to do the FAA ASEL the intensive way.
I had done the ground stuff in 2 weekends prior to going at Bristol Airport with the excellent Rory O'Carrol of American Aviation Services and got the theory test out of the way the day I arrived.
Accomodation (nice condo with pool which I didn't see much of), airport transfers and exam costs were thrown in to the package.
Took me 50 or so hours (day and night) some hours flying 6-9 hrs per day in a little C150 to get up to speed.
Soloed day 5, license in hand day 14, back to blighty day 15. Job done.
I have only vague recollections of how much it cost - but it was approx 50% of what my dad paid (including all the extras).

Of course at that time 9/11 had not happened and the immigration/visa side was more straightforward.

Was I safe when I returned?
IMHO as safe as any person who had spent the same amount of time flying in the UK. In addition to this I had had to cross the Sierra Nevada in a C150 in turbulence and strong winds at 10,500 ft on my solo cross country, show me a UK PPL student who has ever had to lean the engine? Also the 5 hrs of night was excellent fun and great experience, popping the lights on at some far flung airport by clicking 7 times on the PCL frequency and then landing was such a hoot.
Is intensive training better?
For me, yes without a doubt, I didn't get a chance to forget anything I had learned the day before!

The biggest downer on returning to the UK (other than the bloody awful weather) was my new FAA license being met with patronising glances and raised eyebrows by individuals whose (rustbucket) club aircraft I attempted to rent. The general attitude was "How dare I be so young and have an American ticket - surely I must be a worse pilot for not having learned in the UK?" I visited several flying clubs prior to settling on doing a conversion to PA-28 at modern air in Fowlmere with the excellent Kevin Ambrose-Hunt.

Since that time I have added an FAA IR (2000), CAA PPL(H) and owned (outright) a total of 4 aircraft (2 fixed wing and 2 helicopters).

I have now accrued almost 1000hrs fixed wing and 600hrs rotary.
I fly on an almost daily basis throughout the year and use aviation to commute to the places I work (weather permitting).

I have no regrets about going the FAA fixed wing route.

It was far cheaper back then and most importantly (for me) allowed me to get the license (which like any other license is just a license to learn) in a convenient way.

It doesn't matter one iota where you do your basic training - which all has to be done in VMC anyway. Clouds in the US are just the same as clouds in the UK (although somewhat less endemic) and entering them is not allowed if you are a student pilot in either jurisdiction.

Where you learn to fly is an individual choice - you could be lining up after a departing citation jet or 737 (having had to get the ATIS then speak to clearance delivery, ground and tower) at one of the busiest airports in the world or walking across a muddy field with soggy shoes and damp socks to climb into an aircraft that is so damp that the avionics are dodgy even in the summer. (The former scenario will ensure far better radio patter when you do eventuall fly into somewhere big)

The most important thing is recognising that just like a driving license having a pilot's license does not necessarily confer good judgement skills. These come with experience which can only be gained with time.

Here endeth the sermon according to Scooter Boy.;)

[IO540]

Excellent post, SB :ok:

Of course you (like me) are one of those who went "all the way" afterwards.

[LH2]

I'll just throw my usual twopence in and mention the place where I did my training (http://www.fly-in-spain.com/). Got through it all in less than three weeks, including theory, cheaper than the UK, no visas, and only a Ryanair flight away from Britain. Oh, and not only I've got me a licence... I can actually fly :}

I don't have anything to do with the guys above btw, other than being a satisfied customer. Hope this helped.

/LH2

[englishal]

Good post ScooterBoy.....

I would tend to slightly disagree with IO for once ;) All my tickets and ratings were done as a holiday (PPL 5 weeks, IR 5 weeks, CPL 10 weeks - I took it easy). During the IR we toured right around California, Nevada and Arizona as at the time we were short of XC time. Had a ball.

My CPL QXC was to Sedona, followed by Laughlin in Nevada for some over night gambling (I lost :O ) then into Big Bear for some snowball fights in shorts and again had a great time. It was never a drag "having" to go out there :) I used to carry out the CPL VFR manouvres over Catalina Island, and then land for a buffalo burger afterwards. I Lazy-8'd all the way back one day ;)

So it is personnal choice, it IS cheaper in the USA, and a different way of training but IMO just as good as the UK. I returned to the UK and had no problem adjusting and now own a G reg plane and enjoy flying there just as much, but in a different way.

[IO540]

At 20 weeks, Englishal, I should jolly well hope you had a holiday :)

The Spanish option is definitely worth looking at. Good weather, hopefully.

But I would still ensure I really never want to do the FAA stuff...

[englishal]

Ah but you know me, lounging around for half the year :-)

I could have done them quicker but at the time I was working towards my CFI/II/MEI tickets..so decided to have a few adventures. I didn't do the FI tickets in the end, I thought I better leave something for the future, along with the G V type rating ;)

[cityjet]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your comments, i am trying to do it in 6 weeks as i can not have unpaid leave, if i want any chance at trying to get leave granted 6 weeks could be feasible without taking the mick. I just dont know whether to do the initial PPL in the USA or somewhere in southern europe. For example the flying club FLY-IN-SPAIN in Jerez.
I will try to do my theory before i leave, seen as im living in France i may need to complete it in French. I already go to a flying school and i have 5hrs of flight which all counts.
I just need to fully complete it next year around April / May so i can go on the distance learning ATPL course so i can stay in employment before i do the CPL.
Also, Needing to get my Class 1 medial, i already have my Class 2 from the French authorities. So now i want to get my Class 1, to make sure that i am medically fit to even persue this career. I guess if i want to do this in english i need to get myself over to either the UK or Ireland.

Anymore help would be great, thanks for the support all.

Frank

[foxmoth]

Granted it won't be a JAA PPL, but you can still fly here just fine on an ICAO PPL with no restrictions providing you stay within the UK.

Not quite true about no restrictions from what I understand - SA licence is type specific, so if you learn on a C150 then want to fly on a PA28 or something else then you need to be signed off for it by a SA approved instructor (I believe Irv Lee can do this).

[Julian]

6 weeks should be more than enought to get your PPL done. I got through mine in 4 wks (even though I had to split into 2 x 2wk stints due to work refusing to give me a block of 4 wks off!).

My one thing, which I have said before, is make sure that you have all the written exams complete before you go. I was flying approx 4 hours a day and being able to relax at night was great, other locked themselves in their rooms and were cramming hard. Its a big bonus card to hold.

I have noticed the cost steadily rising since I completed my PPL about 5 or so years ago however I still think that the cost are cheaper. The other big plus I have found is that schools over there, at least in my experience, tend to have newer and better equpipied and not to mention more aircraft for students to use. My experience of the UK flying school scene has been offputting to say the least.

I, for one, am a fan of the intensive training regime. Constant exposure to the flying environment day in day out improves your skills rather than letting them fester whilst you wait weeks since your last lesson for a break in the weather. This was certainly a big help when I completed my IR which again took about 2 wks and I think about 60hrs flying.

As IO and EA say, the places to visit whilst underatking your PPL are fantastic and you dont have to spend all day flying in circles round your airfield - make something of your trip!

J.

[3bars]

Hi,

I did mine in 2 weeks at Anglo American in California, but it was very tough and not overly enjoyable. Means doing exams every second day, early starts and late finishes. Anglo gave gr8 access to the aircraft though, and gave me my own instructor at no extra charge.
Would recommend the PA28. Four weeks would be more than enough.

Hope this helps

www.flyaaa.com (http://www.flyaaa.com)

[Seagull61]

Echo the comments above. I did mine in 3 weeks at Anglo, although I had 6 or the exams done beforehand. There were peole there who had 0 hrs and 0 exams and although they still managed it within the 4 weeks, they did put themselves under pressure to get those exams done.

[airborne_artist]

I think it could be done in the UK in four weeks if needed, with exams out of the way beforehand. Checking my logbook I see that I flew 44 hours of the 80 hour RN Elementary course in Bulldogs out of Leeming/Topcliffe in June of 1979. Of these 7 were solo.

I flew on 19 days, and never on weekends or after 1700, except on Fridays, when we stacked at 1500....add on weekends and light evenings and you could quite easily get another 25% time I'd suggest. We also spent most of one week on nights flying only once each night.

[Whiteflyer]

IO540

At the age of 58 it took me 49.1 hrs to get my PPL and cost £7,000 and I did it last year over a period of nine months, Feb to Oct at a school to the west of London.

Age may have some bearing, but I also beleive it is so much down to one's natural ability.

I was advised that when I started to learn, be consistant and fly at least two or three times a week, and always with the same instructor.

I did and it worked for me.

To return to the original thread, I too considered the US, and although I intend to use my licence purely for pleasure, I felt the additional cost was worth it as I flew in all types of weather some on the margins, which I doubt I would have done in the US.

Just to be able do fly in the UK's changeable weather and the busy airspace of the UK with confidence, has to worth the extra cost.

WF

[tangovictor]

well done whiteflyer, excellent sense

[mcgoo]

I felt the additional cost was worth it as I flew in all types of weather some on the margins, which I doubt I would have done in the US.

Just to be able do fly in the UK's changeable weather and the busy airspace of the UK with confidence, has to worth the extra cost.

WF

I unfortunately didn't feel the extra 3 grand was worth it. I don't know what weather in the UK you had was on the margins but in the US we regulary had 20-25 kt crosswinds, storms etc and Daytonas airspace is pretty busy, even some of the local airfields where they run left and right circuits simultaneously in busy times, I've been in Coventrys circuit where they wouldn't allow more than 2 at a time in, everyone else had to orbit some distance out.

[Julian]

If the USA is your chosen route then its worth pointing out that you be careful where you do do you your PPL as regards weather.

I felt the additional cost was worth it as I flew in all types of weather some on the margins, which I doubt I would have done in the US.

Just to be able do fly in the UK's changeable weather and the busy airspace of the UK with confidence, has to worth the extra cost.

Despite popular conception, such as Whiteflyer, it is not all 30'c 356 day sun on the other side of the pond. This seems to be Florida weather, I did my IR in California and a vast majority of it was done in actual IMC. PPLs were grounded due to conditions and unable to fly, I would say they lost approx 4 days flying whilst I was there over 4 wks and also flights that were done in marginal weather.

I dare say if you moved inland towarsd Arizona/Nevada then weather would not be an issue again however not sure of which, if any, JAA schools lurk in these areas. The best known ones seem to be on the East coast with the odd one on the West.

J.

[Irv]

I'm often consulted on this sort of question, and wouldn't dream of saying 'do this' or 'do that' as a general answer as I've found every one asking has in some way individual circumstances. A number of questions need 'asking back' before answering, demonstrated in this post alone. At the start it appears to be a question about just getting a PPL, later more information comes in about living in France and also wanting to go 'ATPL', all of which may be relevant and mean some of the well intentioned answers earlier might have been different given the new facts - for example, the intention is probably not to fly UK based N reg aircraft so any foreign I/R could easily cut the cost to a JAA I/R.
If consulted about getting to the commercial flight deck via foreign or UK routes, I usually just lay out the basic routes either 'direct' or via JAA PPL or ICAO PPL, if the latter, do you then go into JAA CPL or foreign CPL/IR first then convert? I wrote a document for people wanting to know the options to Euro airline interviews via S Africa and conversion and it is equally valid for routes FAA, NZ or anywhere. There's no 'advertising' in it, just information on various licence routes to end at the same point. I'll send citylink a link to it.
It's a difficult subject sometimes and it really comes down to personal choice with sometimes surprising results- the last person to ask me was going for just a PPL, was considering all countries, and eventually knowingly chose the (in my opinion) most risky path to getting what he wanted in the time he wanted. It seemed obvious in his paticular circumstances (which were not standard) that the Jerez route mentioned above was almost perfect with all the best safety nets, but given all the information, he eventually knowingly chose a SA school with no known track record with UK students. I'll be interested to hear the 'result' when he gets back. If he gets a SA PPL then he will be type rated, but he's gone into it knowing that. He knows what he wants to fly when he gets back and it was no doubt built in to his decision.
On that topic, SA PPLs are not confined to the UK. The automatic validation in the ANO is not 'UK airspace' limited, so I checked with the French CAA (which is where most want to go) and they confirmed if an ICAO licence is acceptable to the UK CAA in G reg aircraft (ie: 'validated'), and there are no home country rules preventing its use, then it's welcome in France in the G reg. In the same way, they would expect any foreign ICAO pilot that they had 'validated' in F aircraft to be welcome in one anywhere. This is how validations work worldwide.

[Tiger Bob]

Not quite true about no restrictions from what I understand - SA licence is type specific, so if you learn on a C150 then want to fly on a PA28 or something else then you need to be signed off for it by a SA approved instructor (I believe Irv Lee can do this).

SA CAA has just released the final draft of their Part 61 regulating pilots licensing. This is out for final comment before being promulgated. In term of the new Part 61 there will be a single licence for single engined aircraft under 5700kg.
We are really looking forward to these changes.

[jakerr]

Did my PPL in summer 2005 over a 26 day period flying two srties a day. Did the ground exams in the UK before I flew out.

Thoroughly enjoyed my self. Went solo after 10 days, 220 mile solo x-country on day 20 then did my skills test on day 26. All done in a 4 week holiday to sunny California.:O

Managed to accumulate 55 hours flying in total. Highly recomended:ok:

JK