Tornado down in the wash, crew safe [Archive]

hobie

24th Oct 2006, 11:27

more info from BBC news ..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/6080376.stm

A Tornado aircraft has crashed into The Wash close to a practice bombing range in Lincolnshire.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) said the incident happened just after 1100 BST at Holbeach Range.
It is thought the GR4 Tornado was using the range. A spokesperson for the MoD said the crew ejected and two parachutes were seen. The RAF has launched a rescue operation. An air sea rescue helicopter is also at the scene.

and now SKY News saying both Pilots taken to Hospital ......

WhiteOvies

24th Oct 2006, 11:31

Latest report states both crew picked up, fingers crossed they're both ok.

ORAC

24th Oct 2006, 12:59

Press Association:

.....Both crew members on board ejected safely and were rescued by Sea King helicopters from RAF Wattisham and Leconfield. They were taken to a hospital in Kings Lynn, Norfolk, with spinal injuries which were not thought to be life-threatening.

mutleyfour

24th Oct 2006, 13:02

Get well soon guys.

London Mil

24th Oct 2006, 13:17

Plug for the CHF here. The first helo on scene was a Junglie Sea King who happened to be in Lincolnshire with the yellow helicopters boys arriving about 15 mins later (no disrespect implied). Spartan 2 (GR4) stayed on task for the best part of an hour with Rocket also loitering as 'top cover'.

From looking at the radar, it would appear that Chap took a very well considered turn into the range before jumping out. The feeling we got from our end was that the injuries were nothing more than could be expected after a premeditated ejection.

TMJ

24th Oct 2006, 13:18

I've heard through official channels that the crew ejected safely; it was of personal interest as my lads serviced the seats. Beyond that no word has got here.

tonkabloke

24th Oct 2006, 13:24

Was it a Marham jet definately?

Hope crew are ok, and a well done to the rescue services:ok:

JagRigger

24th Oct 2006, 13:36

Local radio in Norfolk has had the Station Commander giving a brief statement, so yes it was a Marham GR4

tonkabloke

24th Oct 2006, 13:40

Any Sqn been discussed?

tonkatechie

24th Oct 2006, 13:49

BBC news 24 just interviewed Stash at Marham who says he has spoken to both crew, who are both well.
Still no news of which sqn, but at least they're ok - get well soon guys.

Edited to add: Saw off a junglie Sea King from EGXW today, wonder if they were involved (in the rescue)

QFIhawkman

24th Oct 2006, 13:55

Two more candidates for a free tie then!

spectre150

24th Oct 2006, 14:03

4 hrs since the jet crashed and already over 1500 views of this thread. Must be a lot of ex fin mates on Prune. Must admit that the first thing I did when someone came in the office and said a GR4 had crashed was to log on to Pprune.

Good to see the BBC trying to get the crew composition right ie pilot and navigator (wonder if it was a pilot check in the trainer :} ) rather than the usual pilot and co-pilot tosh.

Sensible Garage

24th Oct 2006, 14:15

callsign Spartan should be GR4 or GR4A with 2 Squadron, assuming Spartan2 was same flight as Tonka in the drink

glad to hear crew ok

JagRigger

24th Oct 2006, 15:08

According to the radio the local lifeboat crew could "see the fin sticking out of the water" so a look at Anglia TV tonight may show some Sqn markings if they got anywhere near enough to film.

peppermint_jam

24th Oct 2006, 15:27

Glad to hear both got out and wish them a speedy recovery.

Pontius Navigator

24th Oct 2006, 15:31

Sky, and on their interactive, have footage of the intact aircraft sitting erect on the marsh.

modtinbasher

24th Oct 2006, 15:35

Just heard on Classic Gold that our boys have now been moved to St Georges (never heard of it and I originate not far away) hospital in Nottingham as it's a better place for spinal injuries. Do hope these chaps are ok....

lightningmate

24th Oct 2006, 15:48

MostlyHarmless

24th Oct 2006, 15:48

St Georges? Thought Queens was still the destination for ejectees?

FJJP

24th Oct 2006, 15:49

The Notts hosp is the specialist unit for spinal injuries. The then OC Ops at Cottesmore was choppered there immediately after his crash a few years ago. They patched him up with spinal scaffolding (it now sits mounted on his desk) and he was flying again within a year.

Glad to hear the guys are ok...

London Mil

24th Oct 2006, 16:27

LS, .... and they were most certainly outside of the range for a significant amount of time during the emergency. :) :) :)

PS. Not really worth arguing over.

tonkatechie

24th Oct 2006, 16:34

...from Yeovilton which I saw off was the first on scene. Just got back now covered in mud and said the guys were ok with the exception of the usual post-ejection type stuff (sore back and feeling mighty shocked). I took the liberty to say thank-you and well done on behalf of the guys involved. :ok:
They gave details of the crew and possible cause (having chatted to them whilst waiting for the yellow cab), but I don't think it's my place to tell, it's good enough that they're ok.

London Mil

24th Oct 2006, 17:01

LS, I have PM'd you.

Sensible Garage

24th Oct 2006, 17:50

latest: 31sq crew but 2sq bird, reportedly multiple birdstrike at low level

cwatters

24th Oct 2006, 17:55

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-10-24T120814Z_01_L2417779_RTRUKOC_0_UK-CRASH-BRITAIN-PLANE.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsLanding-C1-Headline-5

LONDON (Reuters) - Two Royal Air Force air crew parachuted to safety after their Tornado fighter jet crashed in Lincolnshire on Tuesday, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) said.

"We can confirm that a Tornado has crashed on the Holbeach range near the Wash," an MoD spokeswoman said.

Both crew members in the two-seat plane were rescued by helicopter after safely ejecting and were taken to hospital for checks.

Reports on the BBC suggest they are being treated for spinal injuries, presumably as a result of the kick up the bum they recieved when ejecting.

Which got me thinking... I know the eject motor need to produce high g when the plane is going fast but what about when it's going slower? Do modern ejector seats have variable power to minimise spinal injury or is it an all or nothing shot? Are most of the ejections these days low speed peacetime events?

Vasco XV

24th Oct 2006, 18:09

They gave details of the crew and possible cause (having chatted to them whilst waiting for the yellow cab), but I don't think it's my place to tell, it's good enough that they're ok.

Knowledge is power...

JagRigger

24th Oct 2006, 18:25

Local paper has story with a picture at:

http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=edponline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED24%20Oct%202006%2012%3A24%3A20%3A993

So it was a 2 Sqn jet

modtinbasher

24th Oct 2006, 18:33

modtinbasher,

Standard practice for all ejectees. Nottingham and Haslar are the 2 nominated locations with specialist facilities and clinicians having expert knowledge of spinal injury due to ejection.

lm

Brill. Thanks for that, I thought it was duff reporting. I'm glad they are in safe hands anyway!

I've heard through official channels that the crew ejected safely; it was of personal interest as my lads serviced the seats. Beyond that no word has got here.

TMJ... often wonder where the work went to after the great boys in 7 Sqn Saints lost the task, perhaps you'd PM me and bring me up to date would you? I spent many a happy hour down in the seat bay.

Safeware

24th Oct 2006, 18:36

Mr Mulford said it had been "very much a routine practice day".

Right up to the point when the CWP lit up :)

sw

tonkatechie

24th Oct 2006, 18:56

Knowledge is power...
:suspect: Indeed...:}
Didn't want to appear aloof/snotty, just have learned from previous threads how people don't always respect the privacy of those involved and their families. In order to continue the one-upmanship (is that how you spell it??), it would appear that earlier avian;) comments are true...

Touchin' Down

24th Oct 2006, 19:20

Which got me thinking... I know the eject motor need to produce high g when the plane is going fast but what about when it's going slower? Do modern ejector seats have variable power to minimise spinal injury or is it an all or nothing shot? Are most of the ejections these days low speed peacetime events?

Unfortunately not! It's not so much the speed in a straight line that is the killer, it's high rates of descent close to the ground where the ejection process doesn't have time to complete fully (.ie shute doesn't deploy). Would be nice to be able to turn a dial for a premeditated ejection (not saying this one was) to a leisurely 10G! In the case of the Tornado however, you do have an enormous Fin to clear! Modern seats are much more 'spine friendly' and accelerate the seat in stages as oppossed to the mighy 25G bang seats of old which was instant! In terms of what types of ejections are most common they vary hugely. Most emergencies that are internal to the aircraft will provide an amount of time to slow the aircraft down or gain some extra height. Some emergences however, such as control problems may require an instant ejection. External factors such as mid-air collisions/bird or wire strikes vary widely but you may only have a split second to decide if the aircraft is still controlable. So really....how long is a piece of string.........

Pontius Navigator

24th Oct 2006, 19:52

I believe the Royal Artillery has trialled the mud life jacket and made a mud-extraction training film to boot.:}

WhiteOvies

24th Oct 2006, 19:56

RileyDove

24th Oct 2006, 20:01

Cwatters- The Harrier seat has two pitots which flick out into the airflow post mdc detonation . They sense the forward airspeed and decide on a 'fast' or 'slow' ejection depending on what they find. Obviously speed is far more critical in the case of a Harrier ejection in terms of what the seat has to do compared to most fast jets having almost exclusively reasonable forward airspeed .
Modern seats are far more gentle on the occupants due to the rocket pack . However posture is still a major factor in reducing spinal injuries.

Severance

24th Oct 2006, 21:07

Totally off thread and making light of a serious accident but here is the film made of the trials that PN mentions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5SQiHrDN0U

Seriously though, hope the chaps involved make a swift recovery.:)

Firstly, glad the two of them got out in one piece and I wish them a speedy recovery.

Secondly, I've not laughed so hard in a while; funny vid.:D

Sev

alfie C

24th Oct 2006, 22:21

the lot of you. turn your computers off and get a girlfriend. Go join your Wife in bed. It is some years since I first logged onto this site, and was so stunned by the lack of professionalism I promptly logged off promising never to return. Finding nothing on Sky this eve I decided to break my promise. What a mistake. How utterly disappointing. 'I saw him turn into the range' from London Mil! it beggars belief, who let a spotter on the console? 'i know who picked him up but I cant tell you about it' - give me strength. I see you lot wont let the poor Chinook crew rest in peace either without STILL dragging your case forward in glaring public view for the sake of your own vanity.
I am utterly ashamed at myself for joining this torrid train, and promise to forgo it another 10 years before my optimism in the human race results in an another visit to see if Darwin was right and you have all disappeared.

My Wife is calling.

microlight AV8R

24th Oct 2006, 22:31

Wrong time of the month ?

TheInquisitor

24th Oct 2006, 22:48

and promise to forgo it another 10 years

Thank fcuk for that, then...

Brat

24th Oct 2006, 22:53

couple of Lympstone mud runs might cure the hilarity of the lamentable performance in the vid. Glad the guys are safe. Get well soon.

spectre150

25th Oct 2006, 05:36

Alfie c, I bet your post #1 was a bundle of laughs too. You are free to contribute the same as anyone else but if pprune doesnt rock your boat remember it isnt compulsory.\

Meanwhile... someone just beat me to it with the inevitable comment about the importance of posture when ejecting. True the more modern seat dont have such a big punch as the old telescopic riails we had on Canberras and similar, but it does have to big powerful enough to clear the fin. Navs always used to be told that having the seat motored right the way to the top so that the top of your bone done was virtually touching the canopy was bad. In other words, if time allowed, there were a few things you could do to minimise the risk of injusry on ejection.

Sqn markings are not necessarily an indication of who was flying the jet these days, especially at Marham where the sqns are paired up.

Best wishes to the 2 guys involved.

Sensible Garage

25th Oct 2006, 06:20

ZG711/O Tornado GR4A 820/BT178/3394 2sq
f/f 07nov89, del 26apr90, 13sq/E (dec91/oct94), 13sq/P (oct94/jul98), 2sq/O (dec98/feb99), St.Athan (jun99/12nov99), to BAe Warton for conversion to GR4A (12nov99/20jul00), St.Athan (20jul00/30aug00), 2sq/(O) (30aug00/aug04), 617sq/O (dec04/jan06), 15(R)sq/O (mar06/aug06), 2sq/O (aug06)
w/o 24oct06

MOD released some high res piccies:

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/CrewSafeAfterRafTornadoCrashesOnEastCoastOfEngland.htm

The Swinging Monkey

25th Oct 2006, 07:08

Great news that both are OK and well done to all involved.
Alfie C - you need assessment and a life mate, and good uck to your wife!
Kind regards to all
TSM

London Mil

25th Oct 2006, 07:12

Pah, merely a scatch. The techies will have that one flying again in a couple of weeks! :eek:

flipster

25th Oct 2006, 07:37

TSM

Was that an 'L' or an 'F'?

Flip

tonkatechie

25th Oct 2006, 08:03

(*mad rant*)
My Wife is calling.
...must dash, she deflates pretty quickly these days....

Try a different bait next time.

Focks 2

25th Oct 2006, 10:08

My Wife is calling.
Has 'she' got a hardon again?

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/CrewSafeAfterRafTornadoCrashesOnEastCoastOfEngland.htm
Getting it there was the easy bit.
Glad crew are OK.

hobie

25th Oct 2006, 10:10

utter wasters

must say I thought the thread came together well, with prompt/developing news ..... photo's and some good background information ....

Oh, by the way .......

there is someone on the phone for "alfie" ..... :)

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

GPMG

25th Oct 2006, 10:38

couple of Lympstone mud runs might cure the hilarity of the lamentable performance in the vid. Glad the guys are safe. Get well soon.

Or perhaps the Royal Artillery could recce the beach before attempting to land.

Or stop trying to be Royal Marines....although you can't blame them for wishing.

Glad crew are ok, hope they don't have to spend too long form filling.

Pontius Navigator

25th Oct 2006, 11:06

must say I thought the thread came together well,

Hobie, quite agree. At the expense of thread drift, and to avoid opening up another thread, I think this forum, used sensibly, is an excellent tool for diseminating information which used to be done in the crew room but with a far greater knowledge base. I say 'used' to do in the crew room as days of old with tales over coffee seem well passed. Everyone is too busy.

Even the flight safety mags are now weighty, professional tomes that demand more than a quick glance through.

Thing about pprune is the quick Q&A and often more accurate and far less rumour based than a crew room.

Wycombe

25th Oct 2006, 11:49

I won't stoop to the insults and banterous jibes that some others have made above, but, having said that I will say......

That is possibly the most pompous post I have ever read on this Forum.

buoy15

25th Oct 2006, 12:57

WhiteOvies
The mud seems less of a problem compared to all those weapons being waved around in all the wrong directions!!!:eek:

WhiteOvies

25th Oct 2006, 13:08

B15,
Agreed, wouldn't want to be the cameraman! But with that amount of mud in them do you think they'd actually work? It does prove that it's really difficult to hold your weapon with an assualt troop life jacket on - which is designed to keep a fully loaded booty afloat.
Having walked in fairly unpleasant UK river mud I dread to think what's in the Iraqi harbour mud, hope they were up to date with their jabs!

PN,
A forum like this is the perfect place to help fill your experience bucket before the other one runs out. Sharing of experiences is a key tool in flight safety, hence the fact we are all pestered to contribute to Flight Safety mags. Also the best place to find info in a hurry, Pprune was the first place I checked when I heard about the Tonka crash. Enough has been said re Alfie posts!

buoy15

25th Oct 2006, 13:16

AlfieC
You know you are not supposed to be on this thread unless you are taking your medication
You really have been a naughty boy - so you are to go to your room and not watch any soaps or Sky for a whole month - before you go, say sorry to all these nice people!:8

Airbrake

25th Oct 2006, 13:27

Any names released yet?

GPMG

25th Oct 2006, 13:28

Can I just clear something up for anyone jumping to conclusions.

They are not Bootnecks, they are pongo artillery.

We found that it is usualy a good idea to recce the beach first.

diginagain

25th Oct 2006, 13:38

Weren't they 29 (Commando) Regt RA?

Yes I know its semantics, but they like to think they're cabbage-hats.

BTW, get well soon guys.

GPMG

25th Oct 2006, 13:50

Some foot and mouth Royal Artillery Regt in Iraq that thought they would have a go a beach landings,they sailed up to the beach in the Al-Faw area jumped over the front and rapidly disappeared up to their armpits in liquid mud.

Not 29cdo.

clicker

25th Oct 2006, 14:19

I was in anorak mode at Coningsby yesterday (for alfies info trying to photograph 3 Sqn Typhoon) :).

I was very impressed at the way D&D handled the matter when Rescue 13 was unable to contact Kinloss RCC and from an outsiders point of view everything was handled exactly as one would hope for. Co-ordination between the agencies was top class from what I could make out.

Oh a message for alfie. In my normal working life I help deal with people like you. We get the police officers to take them to the local secure ward. Thought the nickname LondonMil would have given the game away, oh well never mind.

Zoom

25th Oct 2006, 14:36

clicker
Did you get anything worth posting here?

clicker

25th Oct 2006, 18:11

Regret that I didn't, mostly shooting into the sun and too dark towards the end of the day. 3 Sqn didn't fly till the afternoon but did see a nice three ship departure by them (Rampage 1-3).

Best 3 Sqdn was

http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/58091/Pict7058.jpg

Best shot of the day came down to a 29 Sqdn machine

http://www.atomic-album.com/showPic.php/58091/Pict7061.jpg

Clicker

L J R

26th Oct 2006, 04:28

thread creap, thread creap, warning, warning!

Regie Mental

26th Oct 2006, 08:37

If the sun is in your eyes try the other side of the runway!

PPRuNeUser0172

26th Oct 2006, 19:18

And some spotter pics of Typhoon refer to the original post how???????????????

Number2

26th Oct 2006, 22:01

Because the original subject has run it's natural course maybe?!

wessex19

27th Oct 2006, 02:13

The crash was reported in the Australian press this morning claiming the navigator was on exchange from the RAAF.Glad to hear both are well.

L J R

27th Oct 2006, 10:17

Not on exchange but a lateral recruit perhaps?

Fly Navy, Sail Army

28th Oct 2006, 17:32

I heard about the Tornado crash, and was wondering, seeing as they were from Marham if anyone knows whether they were on a refuel that day with a VC10 tanker just off the Wash ranges, over the North Sea.

I was on an air experience visit on Tartan 23 out of Brize Norton that day, which refuelled, amongst others, a flight of GR4s from marham as they were flying sorties into the Wash Ranges. I wondered if maybe they were the same flight as that which had the accident?

Hope the guys are feeling less worse for the wear, and would like to know if anyone would want the pictures I nabbed before the accident (assuming it is in fact the same aircraft).

Cheers - C.J.B

L J R

28th Oct 2006, 22:41

You might want to contact your BzN SQN that you flew with and ask if they did indeed refuel that jet. Believe it or not, if it was refuelled, and you DID get a photo, the BOI considers such pic as evidence. If it turns out that you hold such evidence, you might wish to submit it. Well done lad!