CC attitudes

[DirtyDitch]

As a regular business traveller I clearly see a difference in Cabin Crew (CC) attitude that I would like to openly discuss with CC on this forum. When travelling on flights that almost all passengers are on business the CC are quite helpful, polite and firm where necessary. However, sometimes I fly with Low Cost Carriers (LCC) for convenience which are mainly full of holidaying passengers. It is on these flights that I often feel like reporting CC to their employers for what I feel is very rude behaviour towards passengers. In one instance if I had been the passenger concerned I would have got off the flight before the door was closed and caused as much of a delay as possible so that her behaviour would have been investigated. It seems that CC on LCC's have very little respect for the passengers because they are on a Low Cost Carrier.

I often have flights booked for me a day or two before I travel. This means it costs just as much if not more than a business ticket on BA for example. Recently I took an Easyjet Flight to Nice which cost £499 so a little service is appreciated.

A PA announcement onboard begins with, "We know you have a choice of Airline........" Well to be honest, last minute travel means sometimes we do not have a choice that's why we are on board an LCC.

So can someone tell me that they agree with these findings or am I totally unique. I am lucky enough to be able to fly privately and I often feel like telling the CC when I land at an airport that the business jet next to us is waiting for me. Just to make the point that we are not all scum bags dragged up from the gutter that have managed to save our dole money to get to Alicante.

[verticalhold]

DirtyDitch;

Unfortunately I've had similar experiences. Last minute bookings with Ryanair and Ezy can be eye wateringly expensive. A little remembering that the SLF pay the salaries can go a long way. These days if possible I book BA, BMI or whoever if its a last minute booking as the prices are little different and the service very different. The main difference for me is that I'm probably positioning to fly that nice shiny thing thats waiting for you.

I used to commute out of Stan on Air Uk. Coming home once I was in a scotch induced stupour (long delay in Abz) Seated in 14F (the best seat in the house) I had a nightmare. I was woken by a very concerned looking hostie. "I'm glad I wasn't in that dream." Said she

"You were" said I "and unfortunately so was your husband!"

Wherever all the ladies from that run are now bless you all and thanks for some wonderful and very funny trips. You made my trip to work painless and my trip home a delight.

[sinala1]

DirtyDitch and VerticalHold they are very valid points you make, however may I politely suggest you start a separate thread to discuss them - this is more of a no-harm-intended sort of "therapy thread", and your concerns are more likely to get the discussion they deserve in a thread of their own...

:ok:


Edited to say Thanks fo FlyBlue for splitting this from the "Thick Passenger Comments" thread and starting a new one :ok:

[flyblue]

Good idea Sinala! :ok:
Thread split and to be continued here!

[BMED LHR]

Next time book with them and you might get me !!

Enjoy your next flight ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMwgaT9ISGo&mode=related&search=

[apaddyinuk]

At the end of the day, I would report anyone who is speaking to me rudely or inappropriately. I firmly believe in treating others as you would expect to be treated...although I do find myself holding back when its a cutie on my aisle!!! :E

As a BA crew member I hate to say it but some of those rude crew are indeed working with me and because the airline is so big and the rest of the crew just want an easy day nothing tends to get done about these bad eggs. So unfortunately it is up to you as the passenger to bring it to the attention of the company. I would recommend having a word with the In Charge crew member on the day (unless he/she is the culprit) AND fill out a wee comment card including crew members name and POST IT YOURSELF so that you know it does not get chucked in a trash compactor.

I suppose it does not really matter if its a Loco or a Full Service, nasty people are everywhere in this day and age regrettably. Its not just the passenger who suffers but also the crew that are forced to work with the person. I can generally tell what kind of crew I have in my galley before I leave the briefing room and can be the deciding factor in making me go sick last minute or not...hehe...id never do that really!! There is one person in BA I dread seeing on my roster and also happens to be the one person out of 13000 I seem to fly with more than anyone else. Fortunatly I am aware of this persons traits and waste no time in telling this person to cop on, but its not a nice situation to be in and often sets a tone for the rest of the trip...not fun if its a 9 day affair.

Take the action, even if you are not the person involved dont let that stop you. This is a customer service industry regardless of the airline and no one deserves to be spoken to rudely. And yes...Passengers dont have the right to speak to crew rudely either!!!

[hawaiianhosty]

As an ex stewardess for qatar airways and now a ground supervisor at BHX I can only put it down to low salaries, maximum working hours and minimum rest on the LCC. I worked for a good airline and respected the airline's professionalism and was grateful I had a job I loved but there were times when I was extremely tired and found it really difficult to even manage a smile or have a chit chat with passengers but it was never anything personal and not once did I ever judge the type of passenger we had on board...but, that's my opinion. I do sympathise though as you, the paying passenger, have to see and be a part of this hostility as you're quite right, there's just no excuse for rude crew with a chip on their shoulder...that's why they work for LCC and not high calibre airlines like JAL, Qatar etc etc..;) ;)

[despatch]

hi ditch
Its very true what you say.But then again a story have 2 sides.I have got friends in the LCC world and I have heard horrific stories how people treat them.I think the broadcast of documentaries like airline gives the public more ammunition to atack the cabin crew.They are in constant battle against their own job to fly max sectors to regain maximum revenue due to high costs and then to the public who treat them as dirt as they are wearing the orange or blue uniform.I know there is the od one that pull not their weight and cant be asked to offer the little smile that cost nothing but means so much.I work for a schedule airline and some bussiness passengers do think that they own the aircraft forgetting that it was their company and not them who paid for the ticket.
Can I just ask for all the bussiness pax who suffer from dandruff.Head and shoulders is really good and I can strongly recommend it.Boarding can sometimes be quick and its just so much i can wash my hands.So make twice sure before you give me your jacket to hang it up for you :yuk:

[DirtyDitch]

I do recognise when the CC have had a long trip or a long day and give them the latitude one desrves when tired. I go out of BHX quite often on BA Connect to Milan and aer Lingus to dublin. Last week I flew for the first time on SN Brussels, recommended by my secretary and I must say the CC were great they were just like the old days. I don't expect grapes and wine service or even a smile but there is definetly an atmosphere on some flights were the CC are really unhappy as mentioned above in another persons comments. I notice this and if the opportunity arises I ask the CC have they had a long day to try and break the atmosphere. I work in aviation too and fly on many aircraft types but I still think it is curteous to stop and listen to the safety brief and show the CC some due respect.

[eidah]

I think the main problem with the lcc is that the crew are under so much presure from there management its un beliveable this however is no excuse for rudeness however here are some of the reasons i feel the cabin crew are rude but there is no excuse for it.

1) They are working 5/6 days in a row doing 4 flights a day meeting nearly 700 passengers a day, with only 25minute turnarounds if they do not make the 25minute turnaounds they are called up into the office to explain why. When for example long haul carriers are doing 3 or four return flights a month.

2) The flights are very short and you are presurised by the management to get your sales targets and yes they do have targets to meet. This in turn makes snappy crew.

3) With the short flights and quick turnanarounds many crew do not have time for a proper brake just as you are about to sit down for a cuppa tea or a sandwich the seatbelt comes on for landing.

4) so overall the crew are so tired and fed up I know some people will be shouting leave get another job its not as easy as that. Shorthall with lcc is hard work and stressful and Iam afraid to say this shows when they deal with the passengers.

[BecauseCIDSsays_so!]

Hi Everyone!

I do agree with points you make DirtyDitch, there are some incredibly rude crew up there!

I have worked on both sides, I was with a LCC for quite a while both as crew and In Charge and I also worked for BA. I have to say, and this is only my experience, that I flew with ruder more aggressive cabin crew at BA than I ever did at my LCC but I also agree with everyone else there is no excuse, we are there to provide a friendly, professional service so I always encouraged my crew to keep providing this even if they got back to the galley and let rip about it there, the passengers deserve the respect just as the crew expect from the passengers.

Eidah hit the nail right on the head with reasons that can make LCC crew this way and again, it's no excuse but it is the reasoning, thats exactly how I used to feel! But you keep the smile in the cabin! I found with BA which I'm not sure if others did/do, was that a lot of crew have been in the job a very long time and don't actually like it but it's too good condtions, pay etc to leave due to their contract type, but ti doesn't make it easy for the crew they work with or the pax that catch the brunt of it because they asked for ice in their coke!!!!

I'm no angel, I have snapped at pax before but I've always chastised myself for it afterwards and thought 'it wasn't really their fault' etc but most of the time I do keep it professional and just have a whinge when I get home or in the galley with the others!

I agree with apaddyintheuk, speak with the SCCM, if they are good at their job, they will action it, and if it is them then make a comment to the company, it needs to be dealt with as it does give the rest of the crew with that airline a bad name. As much as we all try not to tarnish everyone with the same brush, I think we are all guilty of it after a bad customer service experience! There are the vast majoirty of crew dedicated to their jobs and who manage to keep a big smile on, even when they are on the 6th day of min rest and 4 sectors! Keep going guys- you're doing well!

Happy flying!

[sinala1]

there's just no excuse for rude crew with a chip on their shoulder...that's why they work for LCC and not high calibre airlines like JAL, Qatar etc etc..

With all due respect I have to disagree strongly with that statement... I am currently SCCM for an aussie LCC, but have also worked in the Y and J cabins for a English L/H airline and I can tell you now the attitude I have towards service is the same at the LCC as it was in the J cabin in a previous life - its just now I don't have all the free stuff ready at my fingertips to give out to pax.

Service is a culture - a demonstrated desire to anticipate and then exceed your pax needs. This is easily done on an LCC - "Service" is not about a free meal and a pack of pretzels, its about the way the CC treat the pax and each other. I worked with crew at the L/H airline who had a chip on their shoulder big enough to provide enough wood to rebuild SE Asia after the tsunami - and I work with a lot of crew at the LCC who provide outstanding service on a daily basis.

It does scare me though when I see a reduction of crew numbers coming in (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242201) - I do believe this will effect service standards :(

[BecauseCIDSsays_so!]

sinala1 I totally agree with you. I had obviously missed that quote from hawaiianhostie, I do really disagree with that comment and actually find it quite offensive, people choose to work for LCCs because they suit their lifestyles or they like the ideas and some have great reputations to work for.

LCC I worked for had OUTSTANDING crew and most of the best crew I've ever experienced were LCC crew, not crew with 'high calibre' airlines.

[eidah]

Iam currently working for a lcc in the uk and i have to admit the service i recieved when i fly long haul is unbelieveable. I really enjoy flying as a passenger my meal i get, the drink i get, the video the whole experience is brilliant the cabin crew seem friendly enough however usually iam to busy tucked into my inflight meal/drink and film I hardly notice what they are doing. Is the main problem with lcc is that because you have no movies to watch or meals to eat that you actually start watching the cc and notice the rudeness and there faults.

[Pandora's Box]

eidah, You have hit the nail right on the head in your last 2 posts:ok:

I work for a LCC and have done for the past 4 years and previously with a charter airline.

Unfortunately, I have found that you get treated with a lot less respect from the passengers on low cost, simply because its a LLC they think prehaps your not good enough to work for, say BA. That is my humble opinion :*

As regards to rudeness, there is no excuss for it from crew, and passengers come to think of it. However if you do experience it from crew on LCC, it is either because of the above mentioned, or please take into account that we work max hours (60 hours and 24 flights in 6 days) just 12 hours off most of time. 25mins turnaround, NO lunch or coffee break and just 3 crew to look after 148 pax and a hungry and sometimes demanding flight deck. So by your 6th day on, it does get hard to smile as all you want to do is sleep:zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

[SuperBoy]

please take into account that we work max hours (60 hours and 24 flights in 6 days) just 12 hours off most of time. 25mins turnaround, NO lunch or coffee break and just 3 crew to look after 148 pax and a hungry and sometimes demanding flight deck. So by your 6th day on, it does get hard to smile as all you want to do is sleep

If you don't mind me asking, do you enjoy the work/lifestyle of a LCC so much that you are willing to put up with the aforementioned working conditions? (I'm not being negative towards LCC but I would really like to know)

There are many reasons why I like to work as cc but one of the main reasons is the fact that I have alot of free time. Ouch, 60 hour work weeks, :eek:

Well I take my hat off to those who work for a LCC :D:D:D

[Pandora's Box]

SuperBoy,

I physically cant take the lifestyle anymore, thats why im going part time soon, for my sanity if anything:{

As regards to doing low cost, we get sector pay rather then hourly pay. so you work your arse off and feel shattered all the time, however i think its worth it when you see £1600 going into your bank account every month:ok:

I did Charter for 3 years, and still felt just as shattered after a night Dalaman, and just scraping by every month on your poxy £2 an hour flight pay. So figured i may aswel do low cost and have myself a permanent contract right from the start;)

[EYtruth]

Well, I have to agree with many of the things written here. I work for Etihad Airways.
Sometimes u have amazing crew, sometimes u have real assholes whose behaviour is not provoked by pax, but it's their attitude that causes problems (I'm the smartest, I'm the senior, I'm from this/that country .... billions of stupid reasons).
On the other hand, some pax can be extremly rude to the crew, which than causes a bad response from the crew and leads to generalization of all the pax u have on a certain flight! :ugh:
So far, I have realized that the worse pax r the one for whom somebody payed the ticket (especially in 1st and business class). Recently I had a flight where few pax were upgraded from economy to business, and they were behaving like they own the aircraft and the whole company! :* So, can u imagine what was the crew response? I guess u can ...
Also, a friend of mine had a pax on Beirut flight who was real pain in the ass. So, he finally couldn't stand it anymore, came to her, and in quite sharp tone explained few things :ok: After that she became the sweetest pax on board! Why does it have to be this way? Violence causes violence!
But there is no easy solution to this, it can be put in two advices:

1. for the crew: put your attitudes down a little bit
2. for the pax: respect us and u will get respect

Happy flying!

[keeperboy]

As an ex stewardess for qatar airways and now a ground supervisor ...that's why they work for LCC and not high calibre airlines like JAL, Qatar etc etc..;) ;)

I am cabin crew for BA at LHR. I myself came to BA 8 years ago from BMI.

Many, many of the crew you will see working in the FIRST class cabin at BA may have indeed came from a previous life at Easyjet or Ryanair. I enjoy working with people from these airlines, they know what hard work is and appreciate the conditions and pay we have at BA. So I think comments like 'thats why they work for LCC and not high calibre airlines...' not very palatable. We all have to start somewhere in this industry. Some of us are lucky enough to start in an airline that we love. Other may have to take a few twists and turns to get there.

Something I do have to admit though. I also work with MANY people that have left Qatar Airways to come to BA (so I guess their working conditions are questionable). I hate to generalise. But I have to say, on the whole, I find that ex QR crew can often have quite a chip on their shoulder. "Oh I used to work for Qatar and it was done like this that and the other there, and we served the passengers like this and etc etc etc". Comments like the above post from hawaii sounds like many I hear from ex-QR crew about how 'high calibre' it is. I'm sorry, but the company is five minutes old in airline terms. Of course when you have a handful or aircraft and crew it is very easy to 'control' and monitor what goes on. It is also a hell of a lot easier to strike the fear of god into an employee when they are not just at risk of losing their job, but also being booted from the country!

From what I hear, AS AN EMPLOYEE, QR is a very low calibre airline. My best friend who returned two years ago from a Purser-like position at QR used to tell me stories that I didn't believe. He was in charge of an aircraft on a Doha-Maldives trip and took his father along. They had a completely empty Business Class cabin yet he couldn't even allow his own father a seat in the empty cabin for fear of being shopped to management and sacked.

[EYtruth]

Keeperboy,
all middle east airlines r low calibre companies! We work there for a money that is more or less ok, but we do not have any rights. For them, we r just another cheap labour force. That's why most of the crew in this region stay maximum 5 years, and than they leave.
But this is for another thread, so let's go back to the subject. :)

[FLYING_HOSTIE]

As ex Virgin Crew, and now working for LCC, I have to say that its by choice I work for "Low Calibre" as it has been accused of being on this thread (to which I take great offence) and not because Im not upto scratch as Hawaiianhostie has insinuated!

This is due to several different reasons; We have better union agreements, more days off, work less hours, get longer trips downroute and earn twice as much money!! (at my current airline although I know this isnt always the case at others)

Beleive me the attitudes are the same at most airlines, you will always get one who has this so called "chip on their shoulder" wether they are BA, Virgin, EasyJet or even Qatar. But if you get on board with this attitude as a passenger then of course the crew are going to pick up on it and behaviour breeds behaviour.

We all chose our airlines for our own reasons, not because we are not good enough to work for the larger airlines. And I think we'd all do well to remember, we all do the same job just in different colours!

[verticalhold]

Pandora's Box;

When I'm not sitting down the back desperate for free peanuts I sit up the front of a variety of aircraft. I never realised (I fly VVIP private charter) that you guys were doing those hours. 60 hours,24 flights in 4 days would knacker anyone. I'd be interseted to see a fatigue study on CC of the type they did on pilots years ago which eventually led to our nice strict FTLs (including the "can't do it I'm fatigued" get out clause avaliable to all flight deck personell)

Also 1600 quid a month for that? Its not worth. Stelios, O'leary et all are treating you with an utter lack of respect. And as for 20-25 minute turn rounds I personally believe they are bloody dangerous. The aircraft needs a proper look at, you often see Ezy taxi up to the gate and neither of the 2 guys in the front gets out to count wings and tyres before they are off again, and everyone needs a breather. That isn't possible on 20 mins.

You guys need a decent union or someone to step in and say this is going beyond any sensible pace to work at.

Good luck, keep smiling (it keeps grumpy passengers at bay)

[keeperboy]

Pointless quote of previous post - see forum post from mods

[whateva]

Yes, i can confirm that there is good and bad service. I work for a LCC here in Australia and i have seen it with my own eyes. There is alot of things that contribute to the kind of service offered. Here are just a few, getting stuck in out port and not being prepaired for it, being called to work on a day off, you requested the day off and are in the middle of a trip working a 10 hour while family are celebrating whatever with out you, 6 hour delay and your trip has been totally changed and your now working a 12 hour day with 10 hours rest when you get to your final port and most of all, the crew. one bad egg causes all the crew to come down to their level and all of the things listed above could be the reason for that crew member being the way they are. While its great to sit back and say travel is expensive, but the majority of the passengers pay little less the $50 for a ticket on short flights and want the world. Passengers are demanding and we work with them 10 hours a day 21 days a month with tight turn arounds and being blamed for everything from weather delays to air trafic putting us in a holding pattern. Most of all, a smile goes a long way. I indeed have been in a bad mood and all it took was a passenger to smile and ask how my day was to realise that people do care. We work over public holidays, birthdays, weddings and all other occasions and it makes it all worth while when a passenger is nice to us and shows that its all worth it. always remember in an evacuation its the crew who are there to help you get out, so smile and say hello and dont be afraid to ask how their day is going! it could make a difference.

[sandramm]

Verticalhold:

So why dont you REPORT it to authorities when u don t see one of the pilots doing the aircraft checks during turnaround !!! Very easy to slag people but when it comes to act....

I am a cabin crew (EZY), and during my training I was told to always report something unusual whether it is about my own aircraft or OTHERS !!!

And concerning turnarounds, we ( ORY BASE) never (true!!!) do 20 minutes turnaround. What do you think ? That we gonna kill ourselves for the company, knowing that to make a 20 minute turnaround in Rome, MILAN !!!! Madrid and Barcelona for example it is just absolutely impossible, as the national airlines (alitalia or iberia) are always served first if u see what I mean :} ... and italian ground staff is sooooo slow .... sorry :}

Sandra

[Vince1]

DirtyDitch

I agree with some of your points regarding rude CC. However, I feel you can not just relate this to LCC.

I work for a LCC and I have also worked for a full service airline. So I take full offense to you saying that LCC CC are rude.

Maybe you could look past the crew and wonder why their attitude is inappropriate?

Heres a hint....... high flying hours, reduced rest and pressure from the company to have to A/C to depart on time and the fact that alot of the pax are holiday travellers and sometimes like to give the crew a hard time.

With all due respect but have you approached a CC member on a LCC and tried to and make conversation???

By all means if have received totally rude behaviour from CC or anyone else report it. But don't take it out on the LCC CC- they are just doing the best they can with sometimes limited amount of resources. Full service airlines have more resources to promote service recovery and those little extras that we all love to get.