Heathrow Thread

[Will Hung]

Yesterday evening at 17.42 hrs I watched a Sri Lankan A340 take off from LHR 27 L and turn almost eastward without crossing the M25 ! Amazing. Would they have been asked by ATC to do that ?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

They might have done... but the SID calls for the turn at 1nm DME, which is very close to the M25.

I once saw a Boeing 707, asked for an early left turn out, almost put its wingtip down one of the cargo cul-de-sacs! Quite spectacular.

[Will Hung]

Might have been Tex Johnson flying it !

[WHBM]

You guys should get out more. If you go to Chicago O'Hare you'll see just about every departure make a 90 degree turn by the time they're overhead the airport boundary.

[Will Hung]

I'll get out more !!

[OLNEY2d]

Hi,

On the subject of early turns:

I seem to recall that during the fairly brief period that British Midland operated DHC 7s out of EGLL they would routinely turn left in the climb somewhere over the mid-point of 27L ! (probably 28L at the time) and climb out over the Cargo area; I can only assume by special arrangement.

Interestingly, the Brymon guys did not tend to do the same thing.

[hobie]

Even the A380 does it from time to time ..... this was a few days ago (27th Sept) ......

http://homepage.eircom.net/~corkradar/DSCN7809.jpg

[411A]

It's even more fun from the pointy end.
At the old Osaka airport, the noise abatement procedure developed by PanAm (and used by SQ) was left hand pylon turns at 200 feet on the Tokyo Fire and Marine insurance building when the DME was unserviceable.
In a 707...great fun, indeed:E

[Navy_Adversary]

A Sri Lankan A343 lost an engine on take off from ZRH yesterday, see rumours and news.:8

[aviate1138]

You guys should get out more. If you go to Chicago O'Hare you'll see just about every departure make a 90 degree turn by the time they're overhead the airport boundary.
Going out of JFK,[can't remember which runway] Concorde used to bank almost as soon as the wheels left the tarmac. We were always warned in advance but it was a complete non event [other than the unusual attitude] as Concorde always felt like it was flying on rails wherever it was pointing. Noise abatement profile I think. :) Ah Concorde!!!!!
Aviate 1138

[the_hawk]

@Navy_Adversary: the incident discussed in rumours and news didn't happen yesterday, but on 5th September 2004 ;)

[seacue]

Infamous SXM St Maarten. Runway 2 km long, 300 m tall hill 2 km directly off normal departure end of runway. A right turn out over the sea required by all including the 747s with fuel to reach Europe. Do they really fly nonstop to Europe or is there a stop at PTP/FDF,etc?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1031321/M/

[GK430]

The A.F. 340's are weight restricted - approx only 70% and do CDG direct.
As far as I know, KLM 74's tech stop - they only have short turn round and climb out very well.
No idea what Corsair do.

[Flightman]

Yesterday evening at 17.42 hrs I watched a Sri Lankan A340 take off from LHR 27 L and turn almost eastward without crossing the M25 ! Amazing. Would they have been asked by ATC to do that ?

Well it was off track on the DVR NPR. But picked the centre line up around Laleham. :ugh:

And it did cross the M25, all 8 lanes, but never made the Wraysbury resevoir!
:ok:

[Will Hung]

I'm sure you're right, I was on junction 14 at the time, and it looked a close call as to whether it crossed. Now then, being a humble PPL, what's a DVR NPR ?

[Flightman]

I'm sure you're right, I was on junction 14 at the time, and it looked a close call as to whether it crossed. Now then, being a humble PPL, what's a DVR NPR ?

NPR = Noise Preferential Route. Basically it follows the SID, and is a corridor 3km wide. Aircraft are requested to follow the NPR, until 4000ft, where they can then be given a heading.

The Sri Lanka was on (actually off ) the 27LDVR NPR.

[Dash-7 lover]

Olney2D..

Re Brymon Dash-7's.... I think due to the nature of the destination (PLH/NQY) and the speed of the aircraft, to avoid holding everything up, it was a general slow and low climb off 27L or R towards SAM or sometimes a direct low routing out of the London TMA pending other traffic.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Bells are beginning to ring a bit.. well, just a gentle tinkle! I don't recall any Dash-7 going out low-level, and thereby leaving CAS. However, such aircraft were not subject to noise abatement so, with agreement from the TMA, we'd often turn them onto a heading to get them clear out of the way - usually around 250, depending on wind, was enough. They'd then continue to climb out on that heading whilst we launched a few north and westbound departures to use up a few minutes until it was safe to continue with SFD and DVR SIDs.

[AlanM]

There has been a lot of wx avoiding with LHR deps recently, which often includes early turns to avoid cells painting on the wx radar as aircraft line up.

(I am guessing that this is the case) :)

[BRISTOLRE]

I was going to mention Wx avoidance. Was pretty messy yesterday afternoon with showers still around at tea time. Deps Changed over from 09R to 27L at 1505hrs local.

[FlightDetent]

There is a system problem for departures from 27L. Modern aircraft fly on lateral navigation modes sequencing waypoints one by one. Dover (DVR4G) and Detling SIDs out of 27L are prescribed as follows: Climb straight ahead, passing DME1 ILL (associated with ILS 27L) turn left to intercept track 140 deg.

In UK it is common to have only one DME transciever for both ILS on one piece of concrete (two runways). Such dme station will be electronically biased to indicate value 0 (zero) at runway thresholds, the position of the transciever being at the exact midpoint between thresholds.

Now, the DVR/DET SID is perfactly flyable on any aircraft equipped with DME interrogator, starting with C-150. However modern jet transprts equipped with FMS navigation fly waypoint chain as described above. Unlike on other SIDs based on ILS dme turn, (except Gatwick 26L) UK AIP does NOT provide the cooridantes of the initial turn point. Hence, the database provider (Jepp in my outfit) will try to re-code the coordinates into a waypoint themselves.

What happened in this very case, is that the first waypoint is coded as D274A - first hint!!! It essentially means that the fix is referenced to a radio station, bearing 274 (rwy heading) and distance 1 NM. But wait, ILL dme is electronically biased!

Indeed, 09R and 27L pavement is 3660m long, i.e. 2 NM. DME reads zero at thresholds, the bias is approx 0,9 NM. (09R threshold displaced by approx 300m). The DVR/DET sid procedure ask pilots to turn at 1 DME reading, this being approximately 1,9 NM from the radio aid position.

My theory is that Jepp people missed the bias and their waypoint D724A is in fact 1 NM from the DME position.

Analysis:
1 degree of longitude at equator is 1855.4m, quite close to 1852m = 1 NM. At 51 deg latitude (LHR 27L, essentially east/west direction) 1 degree represents 1 NM * cos (51deg). This gives 1'35,4'' per NM.

Coordinates of 09R threshold (where dme 09R - IBB reads zero, the same radio station as ILL) are W000 28' 56,49''. Add to this one mile distance (truning point as per procedure) and the turning point coordinates are 000 30' 31'29''.

On the other hand, when you add one mile to the DME ILL/IBB coordinates, you get W000 29' 08,26''. (about 0,2 NM past threshold).
What are the coordinates of D274A? According to Jepp database W000 29' 06.88''. (Honeywell Airbus database, Honeywell Boeing coordinates are different, but VERY close)

Based on my less than precise geometry, D274A is about 1700m short of turn-point coordinates as calculated above, but only 180m (about three times runway width) past the DME station+1NM position.

Case study:
about a week ago my A320 tried to turn at D274A waypoint, but the DME indication was only 0,2D.:=


Conclusion:
UK AIP does not provide cooridnates of 1 DME ILL turn out of EGLL27L, the waypoint coding is incorrect. Until Jepp realises the error (message on the way) or UK publish coordinates to remove any ambiguity (in most cases they do, apart from 27L LHR and 26L GTW) lateral navigation modes based on Jepp coding must not be used for first turn on DVR/DET departures 27L Heathrow.

Always at your disposal,
FD
(the Ivan from East Europe)

professional replies please here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2904040#post2904040

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<DME transciever>>

Just being pedantic - I think you mean transmitter?

[BOAC]

Cannot comment on the core of your post, but remember that unless the WP is coded in your database as a 'flyover' an FMC will turn early with a turn of 130 degrees for the next track. This is a very common problem with those who insist on LNAV handling for complicated and close-in turns.

HD - I think FD is right! The a/c 'interrogates' the station and the distance is measured on response return time.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

OK thanks BOAC and apologies to FD. I thought I knew at least the basics of most radio aids but I was sure in the dark this time.

[FE Hoppy]

If you have any doubt about the waypoint check it in the database. you can call up the lat and long and plot it.

[Dash-7 lover]

HEATHROW DIRECTOR - I knew it was something like that, the cells are a little rusty. Thanks for reminding me. Not a pilot but worked in Brymon Ops years ago and sat on the jumpseat many times climbing out towards the setting sun and launching from two thirds down the length. One Capt got reprimanded @ CDG after being given immediate takeoff clearance whilst on the high speed turnoff and was airborne before entering the runway! Good ol days!

[FlightDetent]

The waypoint is fly-over, left turn, course-to-fix and lateral navigation guidance follows the track precisely in this case. Incorrect waypoint position seems to be the problem here. The plotting proof is excelent idea - however I cannot do it on-line.:* Take the map, plot the waypoint, and see how far it is from the threshold. DME reads about 0,2 in aircraft, I calculate it is 0,11 NM past 09R displaced threshold.

[FlightDetent]

Picture now here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2905948#post2905948). :ok:

[ALLDAYDELI]

We were given the pleasure of OH-LGG today passing thru LHR on the way to Paris. It departed around 1000hrs local this morning as Finnair 4831.
Was this a charter? Odd routing, Odd flightnumber and strange to see Finnair MD11s over here!

[PaperTiger]

We were given the pleasure of OH-LGG today passing thru LHR on the way to Paris. It departed around 1000hrs local this morning as Finnair 4831.
Was this a charter? Odd routing, Odd flightnumber and strange to see Finnair MD11s over here!Finnair is having to rejig its flights due to the cabin crew strike. Flights are being combined and or cancelled to ensure there are enough crew. My guess is the MD11 was one of these 'combined' flights.

[Off Stand]

It was operating HEK-LHR-CDG-HEL. Hope this helps.

[Fried_Chicken]

I understand the strike continues tomorrow so should see another MD11 on a similar routing

FC

[Gulf4uk]

hi

On acars MD11 48780 OH-LGE was showing on the Heathrow run today

FIN 831\832 . 20TH OCT 2006

Tony

[744rules]

BRU also had an MD11 today.

Routing was HEL-BRU-CDG-HEL

[Call Established]

Was in BCN today and one noted arriving at 1110 local also

[CX256]

Hi

just got back from Heathrow and saw a Global suppy system 744F land. I thought they fly to STN anybody know why they flew to heathrow and from where.

CX256

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Hi
just got back from Heathrow and saw a Global suppy system 744F land. I thought they fly to STN anybody know why they flew to heathrow and from where.
CX256
If it's the one that landed at 1145, it came from LYS.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was flying Beaujolais into the UK.

[Llademos]

Understand next GSS is in this evening (1830 ish, out 2100ish), same load

[ALLDAYDELI]

Yes they were indeed Bojo shuttles. EMA have some later today as well.

[Fried_Chicken]

MD11 D-ALCC has recently arrived at Heathrow as GEC8281. It diverted in & was originally planned into East Midlands

Fried Chicken

[almost professional]

Didn't like the cross winds at NEMA-had two goes and then diverted, coming back for another go later!

[Fried_Chicken]

I see a Polet An124 routed KAFW-CYQX-EGLL & arrived at Heathrow early this morning, flightplan gave RA82010 as the reg'.

It then departed at around 1225 as POT1039 to LIPZ.

How did ATC plan its departure as when i've seen them depart East Midlands, they usually have to sit on the runway about 5-7mins for the engines to heat to the correct temperature. I'm guessing this would severly disrupt the departures at Heathrow.

Fried Chicken

[point5]

An 124 requested 4 mins on ruunway before departure, so to answer your question, we lost 4 minutes!

Cheers!

[treadigraph]

Did the 124 route out via Dover? I thought I saw one heading out near Kenley Aerodrome about 1230 or so, but didn't get a very good view!

[Seloco]

I was inside a Garden Centre near Windsor today when the 124 came over. The noise was so extraordinary that I went outside immediately to see what it was, much to Mrs S's surprise.....

What is it about the 124's engines that require such unusual handling and make such a strange noise?

[SilentHandover]

It looked to be headed towards DVR when I spotted it overhead Knole Park near Sevenoaks.

[point5]

The An124 was filed via DVR but due to a local survey flight it didn't follow the initial SID, taking it on runway heading for a few miles before the turn to the south.

Cheers!

[ALLDAYDELI]

Thats 2x Polet 124s this year then! Unusual choice for LHR, was it a traffic stop? Odd that they would let this in for a tech stop.

[Gonzo]

I believe it was bringing in an engine or two for American Airlines.

[Mo91]

Hi
I would just like to know why a plane turning immediately after take off is such a big deal. Is it out of the norm for a plane to do such a thing?
Thanks in advance
Regards, Mohammed

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Mo91.. It's because aircraft at many airports have to follow specific routes to reduce noise problems for local residents. If one does not follow the precise minimum noise route at Heathrow all hell breaks loose!!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Many many years ago when the French were being even more impossible than normal. A Britannia 737 got stuck at Manchester and was required at East Midlands, couldn't get a slot between all the tightly packed traffic from EDI, GLA, NCL etc so the ferry went special VFR not above 1,500' out of the TMA, bet the crew were still grinning at Castle Don.
Be lucky
David

[adm100]

Whilst just about to depart from t4 tonight I saw a 747 parking up at the royal suite, looked just like Air force 1. Didn't hear the callsign on the RT, anybody know who was on it?

[doo]

Probably Condi Rice, I saw something in the news she was in Israel yesterday

[Getoutofmygalley]

It wouldnt have the call sign of Airforce One UNLESS Dubya was onboard.

[Airline Tycoon]

It was USAF E-4B an Airborne Command Post, not a VC-25A which is the plane the President uses. Both are based on the B747-200.


Probably Condi Rice, I saw something in the news she was in Israel yesterday
She flew overhead LHR on Saturday morning in a C-32A from Andrews AFB direct TLV.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Serial was 73-1677, callsign Bust 48. Scheduled to depart this morning around 8am.

[ETOPS]

Et Voilà

http://eu.airliners.net/photos/small/2/5/7/0360752.jpg

[ETOPS]

BOAC

Thanks - that is the "target" which showed correctly when first posted. Don't know what happened after............:confused:

Edit: Me too! I went in to replace the image and it all started working normally - maybe it was a problem with my ISP's cache? Ah Well!

[BOAC]

Posts on G-VIIL now reside in http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251099

[monkeypuzzle]

Hi all

I have been lucky and been working on M4 a lot over the last 2 weeks, very close to Heathrow so get to see aircraft taking off. Now, I am getting to know if there is a 747 over my head, and if there is a smaller plane, but I also know when this plane goes over. It is a 'T-tail' type, engines at the back and is quite small (maybe smaller than an A319?) It makes a huge noise and I am sure is louder than a 747 and almost certainly louder than an A340. I would love to know what type it is and who the carrier is. And before someone says it, no I am not a bearded weirdy!, I am actually genuinely interested.
Also, does anyone have any tips for identifiying types of aircraft from the ground?
I thank you..

[Gonzo]

Probably an MD80 series aircraft.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1031783&WxsIERv=ZpQbaaryy%20Qbhtynf%20ZQ-82%20%28QP-9-82%29&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Rhebsyl&QtODMg=Ebzr%20-%20Svhzvpvab%20%28Yrbaneqb%20qn%20Ivapv%29%20%28SPB%20%2F%20 YVES%29&ERDLTkt=Vgnyl&ktODMp=Nhthfg%2016%2C%202004&BP=1&WNEb25u=Se%E9q%E9evp%20Eranhq&xsIERvdWdsY=V-QNIP&MgTUQtODMgKE=Rk-%22Yhppn%22%20qry.%2029%2F04%2F1986%20gb%20Ngv%2FNyvgnyvn.%2 0Pyvzovat%20njnl%20nsgre%20gnxr-bss%20sebz%20Ejl%2025%20va%20gur%20yngr%20nsgreabba.%20IP%20 vf%20na%20rneyl%20ZQ80%20jvgu%20gur%20pynffvp%20gnvy%20pbar. %20Yngre%20gb%20YM-YQP%20%2F%20Ohytnevna%20Nve%20Punegre.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=1146&NEb25uZWxs=2006-04-15%2000%3A34%3A05&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=49217%2F1268&static=yes&width=1200&height=812&sok=JURER%20%20%28%20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%271184392%27%20BE%20c ubgb_vq%20%3D%20%271184209%27%20BE%20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%27117 7085%27%20BE%20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%271148519%27%20BE%20cubgb_v q%20%3D%20%271143744%27%20BE%20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%271142027%2 7%20BE%20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%271118816%27%20BE%20cubgb_vq%20%3 D%20%271112056%27%20BE%20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%271107587%27%20BE %20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%271097708%27%20BE%20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%2 71078549%27%20BE%20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%271031783%27%20BE%20cub gb_vq%20%3D%20%271010686%27%20BE%20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%2710090 15%27%20BE%20cubgb_vq%20%3D%20%27993502%27%29%20%20beqre%20o l%20&photo_nr=12&prev_id=1078549&next_id=1010686

[monkeypuzzle]

Looks like it could be. Would this be a regional jet?

[WHBM]

The MD80 is the last aircraft still operating into Heathrow with old-generation JT8D engines on it. I know they are the refanned -200 version of the engine but the rest of it is still old 1960s technology.

The two remaining substantial operators into Heathrow are Alitalia and SAS. The SAS ones are conspicuous even when at a significant altitude by their red-painted engines.

[Gonzo]

Do Alitalia still operate them into LHR? I can't say I've noticed any recently.

[Rhys S. Negative]

Still operating about three flights a day, to Linate.

Rhys.

[Gonzo]

Thanks. I must remember to pay attention and stop doing the Times Crossword. :ugh:

[point5]

For anyone interested in Heathrow "stuff"...
www.heathrowpictures.com :ok:

Cheers!

[SKI]

Is any thing due in tuesday I missed the BBJ last week!

[Staller]

Anyone know why the Air Jam 16:00 from LHR seemed approx 1500ft/2000ft with Gear down OVER FELTHAM/APEX CORNER M3 area? Was banking left off 09R which was the take off runway.

Thanks
L

[oliversarmy]

taking off??

[Rainboe]

Spotter query. Why did you post here?

[Staller]

Sorry if I offended anybody by posting in the incorrect Forum although yes I am at times a spotter I do hold a PPL and I am currently working at LHR.

[Avman]

Not all that uncommon. Just cooling the gear before retracting.

[point5]

Correct. Informed ATC of his intention before departure.

[Dream Land]

Not all that uncommon. Just cooling the gear before retracting I belive you are wrong, this is done to comply with the MEL.

[Captb747]

DreamLand.. you said this

I belive you are wrong, this is done to comply with the MEL.

regarding this :Not all that uncommon. Just cooling the gear before retracting .

Avman is NOT wrong. He merely stated that leaving the gear down tocool the brakes is not uncommon, which it is not, so he is in fact correct is he not !!:}

How does leaving the gear down to cool brakes 'comply' with MEL??

[Dream Land]

With all do respect, please tell me how much experience you have in the Airbus, I am currently on the Airbus and we do not leave the gear down for cooling on the A321, maybe the big bus is different? :confused:

[Captb747]

How would you cool red hot brakes then??:confused:

[Dream Land]

On the A320/321 I fly, we have two choices, turn on brake fans if fitted or wait for the temps to reduce on their own, on the small bus they don't heat up on the taxi out like on a wide body. Also, in the book it's called a takeoff limitation, we do not have the option to takeoff and let them dangle, now should we have a brake deactivated (brakes disconnected fo spotters), we do delay retraction and take the appropriate penalty, other similar MEL requirements also. My guess is that one or two of the brakes were capped off on the A340.

[Captb747]

Yep ok fair point, but when you say ' wait for brake temps to reduce on their own' is this before T/O?

[Dream Land]

Yes, Maximum brake temperature for takeoff (brake fans off)......300C
and 150C (brake fans on). Applicable to our fleet.

[Avman]

Quite interesting Dream Land, but I was just keeping it simple. It all depends on type too. ;)

[Dream Land]

Not all that uncommon This I can go with. :}

[INLAK]

Not all 330/340's, especially older models, are fitted with brake fans.

[oncemorealoft]

Dream Land

I'm no pilot but the sight of an Airbus (most often a BA A320/A319) leaving its undercarriage down well after take off is not at all uncommon at LHR.

I at first used to wonder what the problem was but then there was a PPRUNE thread on this a couple of years ago that explained it was to do with brake cooling after the aircraft has been waiting for extended periods to line up.

Actually never seen a A330/A340 do it though.

[Dream Land]

Please reread this thread, I have gone to great lengths to explain that we do not leave the gear down to cool them off. :ugh:

[outnumbered]

Is the big radar in the central area at Heathrow used for ground control or landings/departures ? I'd always assumed it was for the latter, but when parked in a traffic jam underneath it the other day, I noticed that the dish seems to be angled more towards the ground than the sky...

[Gonzo]

The 23cm Radar is used by both Heathrow Tower and London Terminal Control Centre. We only use it for airborne surveillance; we have dedicated surface movement radars (one in the white dome on top of the old control tower, one northside by the coach park, and one southside by the Royal Suite.

[Taildragger67]

Hi all,

Landed at EGLL yesterday (28 May) and saw two (both?) Japan VIP 747-400s parked outside the BAWC terminal, near the VIP terminal south of 27L/09R.

Unusual to see one, let alone two - anyone any cluse as to why/what/who, etc?

[Taildragger67]

Actually, just found the answer -

the Emperor and Empress are in town (http://http://www.uk.emb-japan.go.jp/en/news/070501visit.html).

Not a sausage on the Beeb front page.

[Seloco]

His'n'Hers then?

Meanwhile our Head of State has to rent one of Willie Walsh's finest if she needs to go beyond BAe146 range. Oh dear.....

[Taildragger67]

Yep.

Recently saw Mr Mubarak's A340-300 (Egypt) at EGLL; even little Johnny Howard (Australia) gets a little 737 (suits him, really).

I think the pres of Argentina has a 757.

Yep, the UK is a bit out of step.

But that issue gets debated from time to time on these boards - search under 'Blair Force One'. Wonder what they'll come up with for the new boss - 'Brown Air'?

[Evanelpus]

Unusual to see one, let alone two - anyone any cluse as to why/what/who, etc?

Every time I've seen the aircraft, they have always been a 'matched pair'

[PaperTiger]

Wonder what they'll come up with for the new boss - 'Brown Air'?http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0132782/M/ :hmm:

[Whitehatter]

The Head of State ('er Maj) is about to get an A319CJ by all accounts, plus something of Gulfstream/Legacy size. Both to be bought secondhand if possible.

[Flightman]

Poss gas leak. STN now taking diversions.

[mmeteesside]

bmi aircraft on ABZ-LHR just asked what ABZ (bmi regional's ops) want them to do.

[ThreadBaron]

Nothing approaching from the east over Putney.

[Saiber]

I have been advised all arrivals are suspended up to 20:00z.Nite jet ban might be suspended as well.

[K.Whyjelly]

Radio news reports of a large gas leak at Hatton Cross with flights diverted and all roads in the area closed. People out of their cars wandering around according to the info I heard.

What a good day to have as a day off away from all that!!! :}

[Airline Tycoon]

Flights are currently arriving 27R and departing 27L

[Saiber]

Traffic delays around Hatton Cross

The airport is operating as normal. However passengers are advised to allow extra time for their journey to the airport, avoiding the Hatton Cross area where possibile. This is due to a ruptured gas pipe on a nearby construction site where an exclusion zone has been set-up for safety reasons. Operations on the airport's southern runway were temporarily impacted but are now operating normally. The Heathrow Express is operating a normal service and the Piccadilly Line is also open but is not stopping at Hatton Cross.

[DILLIGAFF]

Bugger..... the night shift are due in at 1800 and it looks like I will be stuck here in TBC until they can get in.
D

[GEAR_DOWN]

Heathrow closed to all arriving traffic around 1430 , all flights being diverted. diversions to LTN,STN, LGW,BOH and even manston took some I believe, However, airport reopened some 30 mins later.

[Llademos]

High pressure gas main severed, by a man in a JCB. Wonder whether he will be in work tomorrow ...

[aw8565]

Gatwick took an Emirates 773 , QR007 A333 and an Iberia A320 (virtually a touch and go, as he didn't pull on stand just waited on the taxiway for 45 mins and went again!)

Also took 4(?) Virgin A340's at least 2 of which were 600's, not normally seen at LGW as there's only a couple of stands big enough to take them! Those are some l o n g ladies!

All good fun...!

[G-BPED]

I was working close to the Northern Peri Road at LHR Today.

Just geting into my car around 14:20 and a BA 747 carried out a G/A on 27R.

Was an amazing sight as I was almost underneath the aircraft as it powered away and then turned North to rejoin the apporach.

Does anybody know why they had to G/A ?

Was great to watch but I guess not good for the flight crew who had to come round again and I guess probably some pax who wondered what was going on.

Regards,

G-BPED

[Off Stand]

It could have gone around for many different reasons, a common occurance at LHR. And pax would receive an examplanation as to why they went around if/when the flight crew get the chance to a PA as their work load at this point is fairly high.

[DILLIGAFF]

Driving on the northern perimeter road at lunchtime today did I see a Tu154 depart from 27L. It was heading off in a northwesterly direction and looked like it was a three holer.
D

[Rhys S. Negative]

Quite possibly: today's weekly Rossiya (formerly Pulkovo) flight from St Petersburg was a TU-154M.

HTH, Rhys.

[Phileas Fogg]

Exactly how many holes is a TU154 meant to have except for 3?

[myrtleman]

Hi all,

I wonder if anyone could give some idea of any significant changes (new operators etc.) into LHR for the Autumn Schedule starting at the end of this month?

I am aware of all the additional BMI (ex BMED) flights.

Thanks,
MM

[MATaxi]

I believe its been confirmed that Varig are back with a B767-300 around mid afternoon every day starting 28.10.07 for starters if thats a help.

[5milesbaby]

Have you not answered your own question?

"was on flight CNO628" leads me to believe that they have chartered the plane to do the flight.

Quickest path to the spotters forum..............

[ezyBoh]

GEZJV was definately not at LHR today 03/10/07 at 2010. The flight in question is SAS to ENZV.

:)

[Sky Wave]

ok, I must be bored, so I've done some digging.

As EZYBOH says, you can't have seen G-EZJV as that was doing ZRH amongst other trips from LTN today.

However, EZJU is missing in action!

EZJU positioned out to DUB on 29th September and the crew then positioned back to LTN in G-EZJH. G-EZJH positioned out to DUB on 17th September with the crew catching an FR flight back to STN.

So it's a good bet that it's dry leased to a 737NG operator with a base in Dublin that serves LHR.

I can't see it being FR, so has anyone any ideas?

[darrylj]

hi,..
today @ work i saw an airline i probably haven't ever seen in my life named..
ARKIA.
it was parked at heathrow, near the VIP area close to terminal four.
looked like a 737.
i just wanted to know where they are from.
never seen it @ LHR before.
if im right the last few registration letters were BUH?.
i thought maybe the furniture store IKEA have gone into the flying business...;)
thanks everyone..:)
:ok:

[airman13]

Arkia is an israelian carrier based in Tel Aviv as I know....

[D120A]

And the Israeli PM is in London, at a press conference with Gordon Brown as I write.

QED

[mr Q]

On November 28, 2002, approximately 20 minutes before the Kenyan hotel bombing occurred, an Arkia Boeing 757 was narrowly missed by two anti-aircraft missiles shortly after takeoff from Moi International Airport in Kenya. The plane was able to land safely in Tel Aviv
Wikipedia

[airmail 1]

hi all saw a C-130 going into LHR today around 11.00am,any ideas who,s it was?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I don't know... but Air Algerie used to operate them into Heathrow on cargo flights..

[Geezers of Nazareth]

Greek AF, callsign was 'HAF 356N'. Parked in cargo.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Wow.. nice one. I never saw one of those when I worked there.

[cheechm]

Landed in from Mauritius last night on BA122. I was suprised to see EGLL so busy. We entered the stack above South East London at 12000ft and did 5 turns, descending down to 7000ft. When we finally got approach clearance we descended really quickly and also flew quickly toward 27L. However I noticed we landed halfway down the runway and that the pilot slammed on the brakes so hard that everyone was thrown forward.
Is there a reason that we landed so far down, and also does anyone know how quickly the planes were coming in, as I could see at least 7 planes on approach.

Thanks

[mhk77]

Just checking the Heathrow departure boards for my wife's flight tonight, and came across the following flights:

23:30 TST002 Munich Terminal 1
23:35 TST004 New York Terminal 3
23:40 TST006 Bahrain Terminal 4
23:55 TST008 New York Terminal 5

What's all that about?

[IB4138]

Think you might find that "TST" = test.

[mhk77]

Kinda guessed that, but what are they testing? Is it A380 flights or something?

[Squark7000]

My guess would be they are testing the computer infomation and network systems will work when T5 comes on line in March.

[Richard J.]

Does anyone know the story behind BA967's arrival from Hamburg on Friday evening, 11/1/08? The A319 was tracking south-eastwards across North London when at 18:47 it turned south-west and started descending. It arrived over Isleworth on the approach to 27L about 1000 ft too high and did a 360º right turn to lose height before landing at 18:54. Meanwhile all other arriving aircraft were held clear, some being pulled off the 27L approach. A few landed on 27R (used in mixed mode from 19:00) but landings on 27L didn't resume until 19:11.

[trident3A]

Hi,
Just wondering about the old cross-wind runway. I read somewhere that 23 was last used sometime in 2003 , a South African 747 being the last aircraft to land on it. Does anyone know the last time 05 was used for takeoffs? How about takeoffs from 23, did this ever happen?

Have fond memories of windy days in West London watching the unusual sight of tridents, tristars etc. approaching over Southall.

Cheers

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

It's a very long time since 05 was used for take-off and that runway was very rarely used - never as much as 23. I did some 05 ops in the early 70s during a snow storm, both landings and take-offs!! 23 was used for take-offs frequently when there were strong SW winds. During one spell of southwesterlies I did 23 single-runway several times, with a few deps off 27R at the same time. Great fun.

[JMH]

my desk has a nice view of the north runway and the unusual prop sound i just heard made me look up and see a dark C130/L100 take off, pretty much exactly 5pm. another one took off a week or two ago at around lunchtime, neither of them were Air Algerie as mentioned a few posts above - is it a regular visit from the Greek AF? whoever it is it makes a welcome change!

[trident3A]

Just wondering if anyone knows what happened to this smashing little site? Seems to have vanished.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Which site was that please?

[trident3A]

HD, Was heathrowpictures.com, admin I believe worked at LHR and used to post great pics from the tower plus details of any interesting arrivals in the coming weeks. London spotter's dream!

Perhaps he's too busy with the day job, which is understandable.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

PKPF68-77 Thank you!! I was hoping they'd leave a 6ft slot somewhere but, alas, it's all concrete now.

trident 3A.. OK. I think that's an ex-colleage of mine so I'll try and find out more. There are some old pics on my site:
http://brendan-mccartney.fotopic.net

and on the Air Britain site at:

http://abpic.co.uk/results.php?q=heathrow&fields=location&sort=latest&limit=10

[Conor.P.M]

I live in Teddington, about 7 km south west of the eastern end of Heathrow. I don't know all the factors that determine the routes that departing Aircraft can take, but on numerous occasions aircraft fly almost right over my home.

It's never really bother me (in fact I miss heading Concorde during it's take off) and I've become accustomed to the noise, however, for the first time in the seven years I've lived there I was woken up by a departing aircraft. The Aircraft in question passed overhead at 0145 this morning (Monday 3rd). I was probably just a combination of being woken and the general level of quietness at this hour of the morning, but it seemed to be the loudest aircraft I'd ever heard at home (well, since Concorde, and that never flew over my home).

So my question is, what time does the last flight leave Heathrow? I thought it was round about midnight, so have I been mistaken all these years, or was this an unusually late departure by a large aircraft?

[WHBM]

There is no "last flight" time, Heathrow is open 24 hours. As you are probably aware there are a limited number of night flight slots, ie between 2300 and 0600. Over time these have tended to get concentrated in the hands of those airlines with large aircraft they wish to arrive shortly before 0600. But if any operator has one of these slots they could depart at 0145 each night if they wished. It is just that, commercially, it is more effective to go for those early morning arrivals.

Such a unplanned night departure has to be taken from the night slot allowance. So if it was BA (just as an example) who had a late evening departure delayed several hours, one of their early morning arivals will have to be rearranged to arive after 0600. This sort of on-the-day adjustment happens from time to time.

It used to be that there were several freight flights in the middle of the night, but these have been squeezed out by the early morning arrivals within the night times. The night flights allowed are expressed at so many per year which gives some flexibility, and 99%+ actualy get used.

[greggx101]

The Aircraft in question passed overhead at 0145 this morning (Monday 3rd). I was probably just a combination of being woken and the general level of quietness at this hour of the morning, but it seemed to be the loudest aircraft I'd ever heard at home (well, since Concorde, and that never flew over my home).


You posted on June 2nd so i take it you mean 0145 June 2nd

It was the late VS350 to Mumbai - an A343.

Sometimes the rain makes them sound louder and the 2nd June was a wet one.

[JMH]

Do we know when Georgie Porgie et al are flying out of heathrow today? any thoughts on which runway? and why did they land here instead of brize norton? ta

[white_elephant]

Will be surprised if AF1 and the entourage do not depart from the Southern Runway, 27L I expect.

[40612]

Single runway ops at LHR on 09L while AF1 and the 757 used 09R for departure. Both looked good from the Esso garage. 09R had been closed for at least 20 mins beforehand. Nice to see 09L deps though. I think a few delays built up over this time though !