I will do it!

[rob152]

Hello,

Just wanted to air my issues, despite them not affecting anyone else! I'm 25 yrs old, just graduated from studying a HND in Aeronautical Engineering and have longed for a career as a professional pilot all my life. I would quite frankly give absolutely anything to achieve this. After looking around and sitting the selection process for Thomas Cook/OAT, and then realising I cant afford it, Ive decided on Stapleford for the full-time modular (zero to ATPL). I have a number of financial details to sort out first so it won't be until next year. Anyway I plucked up the courage to bring this venture of mine up with my Dad. He thankfully agreed to help but understandably wanted to talk about the whole thing in more depth in the coming months. Great so maybe now I can begin to look forward to commencing my training, after all I have spent a good 20 yrs dreaming of nothing else and countless sleepless nights as all I can think about is flying!

I live with my step Dad, now I love the guy to bits and I really look up to him but there is one thing that really really infuriates me, he has this way of knocking me down a few pegs and making me feel that my dreams are never, ever going to be realised. Ok I understand the hard work involved and I appreciate what realistic chances I have in the future of succeeding in my ambition but I refuse to believe that its something that I'm too thick or just not good enough to achieve.

All I ever seem to get from him is comments trying to make me give up, go and work in a supermarket and accept that thats all I'm good enough to achieve! I am 150% determined to get to where I have always wanted to but it can be so hard to keep the dream and belief alive when you have very little support from the people you love and care for. I cant even talk to him about my flying ambition because as soon as I do he just tells me to forget it as its never going to happen.

Thats all he ever said to me throughout the duration of my engineering course and, fortunately, I managed to pass but it would be so nice to have someone Ive always looked up too to offer a bit of support.

Anyway I think Ive gone on far too much here but you never know, maybe someone else suffers the same kind of issues. If so how do you/have you excelled in hostile opinions?

Rob

[fatlazypilot]

Are you depending on him financially? If not, then this is the time to show him whats up. Sooner or later you'll find that F/O postion, if you look hard enough I guess.

[Earthmover]

It's simple ... he can't bear the thought of you acheiving more than him. Probably a complex brew of envy for your youth and ambition. Is he an insecure person? Controlling maybe? My Father was similar, but I triumphed eventually.

Keep at it and no doubt you will too. Good luck!

[rob152]

Hmmm I guess I am kind of relying on him as I live with him and my mum, a bit cheaper as Im paying family rates for rent! But thats about it. He thinks I need to stop farting around and go and work to stand on my own two feet and move out. He seems to hate the idea of anyone helping me financially to raise the amount of money required to fund the training. This is my step dad who I have lived with since I was a couple of years old. It is my real dad who is prepared to hopefully help.

Rob

[future captain]

Mate, if you are in a position to go for it, do exactly that and go for it. Your birth dad is behind you. Have you sat down with your step dad and really talked about how much it means to you, perhaps in your mums presences. Show him some leaflets from the flying schools and other material you have accumulated and show him how committed you and and this is something your serious about and not just something you just want to have a go at.

[Deano777]

Rob

Go for it mate, I think the nail was hit on the head when it was mentioned that a tad of envy could have crept in, personally I could not live like this, I have spent all my life with parents who found it very very hard to praise (no fault of theirs either, it's the way they were brought up), I would actually have to "have it out" with him, i.e. try and have a serious adult conversation as to why he is like he is with you, if you were his "real son" I wonder if he'd be the same, but hey this isn't an agony aunt column so I won't go on ;)
Keep us informed how you go

Dean

[moku]

Rob,

When I first wanted this career many years ago it was my Dad that stood behind me all the way. It was others who said that I was dreaming and should think of "a more realistic career" (not exactly the same I know). But the point is....... I studied hard, just like you will. Eventually I proved to those that doubted me that I could make it. If you want it hard enough it will happen!!
I am now an FO flying a Jet, with several years experience behind me. :)

Moku.

[rob152]

Thanks guys for the encouragement, I certainly dont need any of that! Im more than determined to make it and I'll stop at nothing until I do. Its just nice to have those that are close behind you. I'm pretty sure my step dad would be very proud if I made it, I guess he's just concerned of the financial outlay and thinks I'd be better getting another "easier to achieve" job so I can finally move out and fully support myself. Well I've tried to give myself a backup plan by gaining the engineering qualification but there is no way on heaven and earth that I'd let myself get to my mid 40's and look back on my life thinking that I never really gave it a shot. My biological father is, hopefully, going to give me a good opportunity to go to stapleford and train full-time. As long as I plan and save appropriately to help I cant see any reason why I shouldn't go for it. I'm 25, I know its what I want and deep down I know I can succeed whether I have support or not.

Rob

[mcgoo]

As you say Rob he might be just concerned about the outlay against the high unemployment of pilots, he might also not be trying to get your hopes up in case you don't succeed, we have all seen those people on x-factor whose parents have told them they are the best singer on the planet only to have their hopes dashed on tv, i'm sure he will be proud when you achieve your goal, good luck!

[future captain]

You have a good attitude mate, wish you all the best! I'm currently doing my degree in computer science, and hope that once i have finished, I to will be in a position to fulfil my life long ambition. Like you said, i don't want to be in a position down the line thinking one day, what if? what if i gave it a shot?,where would i be now if i did go through with it? Life's to short for that, you have to give it a go to find out the.

All the best :ok:

[Lucifer]

Do the GAPAN aptitude tests to ensure you are spending wisely, and go for it. I doubt the man is being vindictive - though of course we don't know him - if you actually do it and are no longer dependent upon living in his house, then I am sure he will be encouraging.

Always good to take it realistically. Ensure you are prepared - have you tried a PPL yet?

[rob152]

Yeah I've done about 48 hrs but haven't flown for a little while as I have been at college and free time and spare cash was something I didn't have! I'm not sure how similar they are but I did pass the Thomas Cook/Oxford selection. I didn't progress as my HND results were not published in time so I was automatically eliminated.

[AlphaMale]

I feel as though I'm in the same position as you on this my friend. I am looking to do the APP(multi) at EFT ot the 0-fATPL at egnatia.

I have gone through university and have my BSc and have wanted to be a pilot since 5/6 years old. Most of my family (not parents) worked for BA as engineers so I was always with people who had a bit of a passion for aeroplanes and engines.

I feel I am confident / educated / old enough to come out and tell my family and girlfriend what I want from 'MY' life. Like you I don't want no 'What if's when I am 40/50 and it's too late. I printed out a load of information on the different courses I need to become a fATPL Pilot with CPL/IR/MCC and the girlfriend kept closing her eyes and sniggering at me. :hmm:

I know my uncle will be supportive and I hope my parents will bo ok when I tell them. (£50,000 is a lot of dough to find wen you only take home a little over 1k a month :rolleyes: ).

Take care buddy - I hope you prove them wrong.

Safe Landings

Andy

[richie-rich]

my exgirlfriend did the same to me Alpha. But I broke up with her and now am few days away from getting my CPL. bin her and do it. You will not atleast hear the whingers moan when they see you succeed at the end of the day. You come out as the champion eventually :ok:

Richie

[WindSheer]

Airline pilots are super heroes!!!..........

Thats the attitude of people who know nothing at all about the aviation industry. I must admit when I was around 15 years old, I felt the same and thought it was a completely un-obtainable career.
I am just about to start my training, hopefully integrated but will probably go modular due to finance!!!
I work in an airline operational role, and have had nothing but inspiration from the men in stripes for me to push forward.

May I add I am educated to GCSE level and nothing further. Upon mentioning that to one of our FO's, he commented..."mate I am thick as pig sh1t, got 2 O'levels...". He is now a captain!!

I would definately check out this site though, and sit the aptitude test. Gives you a free insight to what some of the aptitudes are like...

www.epst.com

All the best!!

[dartagnan]

and another one in the long line of unemployed pilots....:(

[crap pilot]

When i was younger, all i wanted to be was a pilot but my parents along with teachers and everybody that would have been able to help told me that it wasnt possible. I either needed to be very rich or a genious, and i was neither. I lost sight of my dream for a long time untill i met my wife who told me to look into it, which i did. although i am not yet i comercial pilot, i have just completed the ATPL exams and nothing will stand in my way of the dream.
My parents are now 100% behind me, as they dont see aviation the way they used to. They now know that i can do it and the best part of all is after i took them flying to show them how great it is my father has started to take flying lessons himself.

[AlphaMale]

and another one in the long line of unemployed pilots....:(

This is my biggest worry :( ... and my girlfriends biggest worry.

Apparently there is a pilot shortage (albeit captains with 5,000+ on type). And I am wondering how many students graduate per year on a 0-fATPL course per year (Integrated & Modular)?

I am sure the big flight schools are throwing out 50 per year alone, so maybe 200-250 graduate from OAT / Cabair / CTC / Jerez / EFT. Are there really 250 jobs per year for young, fresh pilots with a little over 250 hours on the log book? ... I wouldn't imagine so :sad: .

I'd quite happily be a FI, But deep down I'd still wonder 'what if'. Still spending £50k to become a flying instructor is a bit exccesive IMHO.

At a guess could somebody tell me how many forum users here are fully qualified and still haven't found a job after 12 months of trying?

Thanks

Andrew

[captainyonder]

As long as you work your socks off both while training and whilst looking for a job you'll be fine. Too many people think they can just send off 20 CVs and one of them will come back with a lovely letter saying 'please sir, come and work for us for lots of cash and minimal effort'. The truth of the matter is, it doesn't happen.

Networking is the key, get to know as many aviation people as you can and although it will probably still take a while, you'll land that job eventually.

[CPL_Ace]

How about taking your step-dad up in a single engine for an hour, give him a steep turn, and a scenic tour followed by a rejoin at a large airfield with approach/tower/ground calls and all that stuff that outsiders think is really cool and professional - many people are unconvinced until they can visualise you doing something........

And there's nothing like thousands of pounds of someone elses investment to motivate you to put the work in!!

[sagaris]

Pay no attention to dartagnan. He's a pprune joke. He's nothing but a whinger in some threads about being uneployed, at others hes playing the hero at cursing the fact that the industry isnt what it once was, and in others he pretends to have a job.

Dartagnan - guess why airlines dont want you! If you can't work it out, then you're in the wrong profession.

My advice to anyone contemplating being an airline pilot - Well the airline industry is exactlythat - an industry. It peaks and troughs like an other - with about 7 yrs between them supposedly. Right now it is up there... demand for pilots is huge. So, once qualified, there is no shortage of jobs I assure you. If you're made of the right stuff, have the right attitude (unlike some) you'll get there quicktime.

Integrated schools have better success regarding employment, for the one reason that the airlines are getting a known product at the end of training. Not to say that modular students are worse or wont get employed. Once again - right attitude with the skills to pay the bills...

What Integrated schools can do is forward your name to airlines when you complete training. This is the golden ticket to show what you're made of in your BMI/EZY interview. Bear in mind that the training school does NOT owe anybody a job, they are there to train you up. If they can get you an interview, then bonus. Once they have done that it is down to you, their duty has been carried out. I think that is fair.

I was a div at school, plainly wasnt interested. 2 years after scraping a couple of A-levels I went integrated. My school got me an interview with a largely orange outfit... I am now in the position where I can choose to remain with a real prospect of command in the near future, or hop on to a charter,working half the hours and being able to spend time with my loved ones.

If you've got the burning desire and an open mind, open eyes and the right attitude, you'll be just fine.

Go for it, I have never looked back.

Once upon a time being an airline pilot required our fathers to be airline pilots, the same was for many professions, now the time has changed... We are of the generation who can do what our ambition so desires, and for this we are massively blessed.

Chase the dream.....

Hope this helps

[rob152]

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies, I'm very grateful. Its actually not a bad thread come to think of it, it certainly helps to chat to other people of the industry and get views from people who actually fly for a living.

It was mentioned in an earlier post and I find the very fact that my 'old man' insists on giving me the 'you will only fail, your useless' lines and yet has absolutely no experience or knowledge of the industry very annoying. But as soon as I walk away from him and the comments he makes I just try to remind myself of what I mentioned above, look at my 737 cockpit poster and renew my belief in the dream and ambition that has taken over my life for the last 20 yrs!

Stapleford and modular are really the only route for me to take due to financial reasons, I'd like to go integrated but it just isnt an option. I only hope this way doesn't mean that no airline will be interested in me because of it, I mean its not my fault that I can't (between me and my Dad) generate the money required for integrated.

Anyway I think I have learnt over the years that people can tell me whatever they like on their opinions of me wanting to become a pilot but one thing is definately for sure, I am bloody well going to give my dream everything I have got. I said it before, I WILL NOT stop believing and I WILL NOT give up until I'm sitting in the RHS of an aircraft, any aircraft, earning a living!

Cheers guy's

Rob

[AlphaMale]

I only know 6 qualified airline pilots (5 integrated / 1 modular) and all landed jobs pretty quick. None are silly but none are 'Einsteins' either :confused: Then I come on here and read about every other pruner moaning about spending £50k and getting nothing back ?!? :rolleyes:

I had a bad day at the office today but I had an e-mail from a flight school, and I was happy all day long (and still on a high now) :ok:

Big blue sky here I come ... even if I have to be a crop duster. :E

Andrew

[FunFlyin]

This is my biggest worry :( ... and my girlfriends biggest worry.

I am sure the big flight schools are throwing out 50 per year alone, so maybe 200-250 graduate from OAT / Cabair / CTC / Jerez / EFT.

Alpha,
Sadly you only have to pop down to OAT these days and look at the numbers for their APP course. Quite often the courses are full
and i cant remember how many that entails but its in the 20's as far as i can remember.

Normally one course a month..... 240ish pilots a year? Just from OAT alone :bored:

Funflyin

[Ronaldsway Radar]

Sagaris,

Excellent post, and very true - thanks for your input :).

RR

[sagaris]

Always a pleasure!;)

Keep on chasing... you wont look back...

ps funflyin - I believe OAT courses are 18 at a time, thats a large turnover, but the jobs are out tere, thats how they muster such high eployment stats - crica 97% last year I believe. The jobs are out there, as I mentioned before - they dont owe anyone a job, or even an interview for that matter... but once they do get you an interview with GECAT/EZY/BMI etc - its down to you... fair is fair, I you want it, you've got to prove yourself, as per any other job interview.

Rob, just take a peak at the recruitment targets for FO's accross the industry for the next 24 months, paying particular attention to the lo-cost market. The market - though volatile at the moment - is a ripe one for employment.

Long may it continue...

[AlphaMale]

18 student per month (around 100 per year) and 97 of those guys will get jobs - that's pretty good.

What dose give me inspiration is reading about easy / ryanair buying more planes (add to that pilots retiremant) you have quite a few places up for grabs i.e. 107 Boeing 737s and firm orders for a further 143 new Boeing 737-800s. With 25 of these aircraft arriving in the next 12 months :ok:

Andrew

[scroggs]

I make 18 a month equals 216 a year. Only 97 get jobs? That's not good! ;)

Scroggs

[AlphaMale]

I make 18 a month equals 216 a year. Only 97 get jobs? That's not good!

ps funflyin - I believe OAT courses are 18 at a time, thats a large turnover, but the jobs are out tere, thats how they muster such high eployment stats - crica 97% last year I believe.
Ooops ... forgot to add the 120 to the 96 :ugh:
Still I was using the 97% as a true figure ... So I guess 210 people getting jobs out of 216 isn't bad either. The other 6 are probably instructors or have a job in the industry doing something they enjoy.

Andrew

Note to self : Look back through my A level text books at basic sums before going to EFT.

[aviate2day]

There are a number of routes into this industry and many career paths once you've got IN.

If you want to get on a jet asap go integrated work hard and don't be a dick.

If you want to take a bit more time along the journey go modular, then you could instruct, para drop, glider tow, then have a crack at Turbo props.

You have to do what suites your personal circumstances.

For me 2 things were important:-
Making a plan and being flexible with it when circumstances throw a curve ball at you.
Also networking like silly, never give up an opportunity to do this. This can lead to job offers, it also keeps you in the loop with what's going on IN the industry. Be pleasant and polite to everyone you meet. You never know when you'll meet up again!

For me I started looking into it back in 2001, went modular and got my CPL/IR 3 years ago. Since then I've instructed flown a TP and have just finished my first summer on a Jet. Its great fun and I've enjoyed the journey as well. For you info I just turned 36.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

It seems Ryanair is intent on recruiting its pilots from shores far away from England or Ireland so I'm not sure how much use their aircraft orders will be to you.

Whilst there are lots of jobs out there you have to realise - and its always been the case - that for every 3 people who enrol on a commercial pilots course or ATPL exam course only 1 ever makes their living from aviating.

One in three.

And I've seen, known and even trained some of the the 2's and 3's. They were nice people.

Good luck,

WWW

[RogerIrrelevant69]

rob152,

You've proved your stepfather wrong once before with your engineering qualification, now prove him wrong again. I ran into this sh!t attitude from others a couple of times in my life around the time I left school. Luckily never from my parents as I might just have listened to it had it come from them.

Ignore that negativity, it is as others have said here envy pure and simple. The people (3 to be precise) who tried to hold me back went on to achieve absolutely nothing in their lives.

[Slow Progress]

My Dad told my mother in law that he didn't think I had it in me to become a commercial pilot. He probably wouldn't say it to my face though. I have done nothing but dream about flying all my life and it has made me even more determined to show him what I am made of.

Hearing that from my own dad has given me a right kick up the backside so keep up the dream and give it all you have got. Thats what I am going to do anyway.

Good Luck

Slow Progress

[Bambe]

Hi guys,

Just wondered if someone could explain me what's so different between a modular and an integrated course except the fact that the modular permits you to organise your training time..?

Why airlines would accept some frozen integrated ATPL and required 500 hours for modular's frozen ATPL...??? After all it's the same licences and you can complete your modular training in 15 months as well...
What the hell is so different?
Thanks for your response.

BY

[Re-Heat]

Without diverting the thread, the reason is simply that some airlines had poor experience of some modular students, and had to spend a great deal more time training them to the same standard.

Clearly the same licence come from either route, but the worry remains that people waste the "hour building" time, losing skills and gaining sloppy attitudes. With a disciplined approach to the hour building time, it can easily be demonstrated that one's skills equal those of the integrated student.

Off topic though.

[tom775257]

My father also told me that I shouldn't become a pilot, I should stay a scientist. I now am an A320 pilot for a flag carrier airline and will be starting with a UK major airline shortly.
Regarding pilot employment rates, of the 8 I started training with at ATPL theory, 3 are now airline pilots, of those 3, all paid for type ratings, 2xA320, 1xATR. 1 is a flying instructor after failing their first type rating with an airline. 4 don't fly any more.

At the airline I work for, the intake I started with were all English. Approx 50/50 between modular and integrated. There was no correlation between ability and which route people took in training, the quality of the candidate is the deciding factor NOT the school they went to IMHO. You can't polish a turd.

I was modular, I was one of the last students through ATA Coventry and Westflight Gloucester. This didn't hinder my efforts at finding a job, however some schools seem to have dealings with airlines that could help your job hunt. I would love to know what goes on behind the scenes with regards to financial 'bungs' between flight schools and airlines. Do they exist? I suspect so.
Regards.