DA 42 Twinstar

[J32/41]

Hello

I am interested to hear from anyone that has flown a Twinstar and what they thought of it, how was the performance, comfort, noise etc?

Thanks

[Fuji Abound]

The comfort is excellent, but more akin to a sports car than a typical twin. I guess it might be your thing or not - you would certainly want to try first.

The ergonomics I think are superb - I doubt anything beats it including the Cirrus.

Noise levels are I suspect as quite as you are likely to get in any twin.

Single engine performance in the cruise is fine, but marginal on take off, and good technique is important. Asy loads are reasonably pronounced.

It is of course only four seats and load carrying is not great with much fuel, but on the other hand only a very little fuel is needed to give the same range as a conventional twin.

Handling I felt was very good and the 42 is a joy to fly.

There seems to be a suggestion it might well be MEP type rated because the differences are sufficiently significant and it takes a while to be comfortable with the G1000 avionics.

[B2N2]

load carrying is not great with much fuel

According to the Diamond website the usefull load of a DA-42 is 1174 lbs.
Full fuel takes away 350 lbs, leaves 824 lbs.
824/4= 4 people of 200 lbs each or lighter weights with some luggage for a 5 hour endurance. Safe 4 hrs, 4*160kts= 640 miles. Not bad.

With auxiliary tanks the pax load drops to 654 lbs. Still 3 adults plus luggage, this time for 7 hrs.
7* 160 miles= 1120 miles.......:8

[Fuji Abound]

You are correct. Compared with a SEP, four seater load carrying isnt bad.

However with the extended tanks and full fuel two reasonable sized adults puts the aircraft close to MTOW. Some might expect more of a four seater twin but the range with full fuel is so great this is a most unlikely configuration.

Compared with a PA31 however, which can absorb six adults, fuel and baggage in terms of load carrying it is in a different class. Horses for courses.

[Egnatia Instructor]

Ive had three people, luggage with std tanks, it performed great, still climbed at 700-800 ft min below 5000, and 600-700 ft min up to fl100 (average), so no probs there.

I find it a great plane to fly, could just do with being faster.

EI

[B2N2]

is slow compared with other twins
Depending on powersetting and altitude/ weight cruise in the DA-42
is anywhere bwteen 155-170 KTAS.

That puts it in the same league or slightly faster then:

- Grumman Cougar
- Seminole
- Dutchess
- Twin Comanche
- Seneca I (maybe even Seneca II, never flown that one)
- Most Aztec's
- All Apache's

You cannot fairly compare a DA-42 to a Baron, AeroStar or Shrike Commander, that's a different league of aircraft.

So I would argue the DA-42 is just as fast or slightly faster the most commonly flown twins out there with half the fuel burn.
Would I like a higher speed out of the DA-42?
Absolutely, but that has more to do with my ever increasing addiction for flying speed than the design.

[MichaelJP59]

The running and ownership costs are extremely low...in fact they are lower than most singles!

Diamond sometimes say this as well, but rental costs I've encountered certainly don't reflect that, being typically at least double the price of a single!

[MichaelJP59]

I know exactly how much a Twinstar costs to own and run and it IS cheaper than most singles. If flight schools/renters charge silly money thats up to them I guess.

I suppose the unknown factor here is depreciation, with the DA42 being relatively new. A big chunk of the hire charge is made up of that.

[StraightLevel]

hi guys,

i hired a twin-star recently from a very nice chap who is based at bagby airfield in yorkshire. was very reasonably priced to hire and only a few months old so in as new condition, a bargain i thought.
had to do the conversion at humberside with one of the flight schools there, before being let loose to build some hours. took it up to scotland for the weekend.
an excellent passage maker. inverness, sab vor, nt ndb, td ndb, otr vor, then into humberside in two hours.

:)

[MichaelJP59]

hi StraightLevel, can you PM me the details for the Bagby guy? Cheers.

[hobbit1983]

Out of interest StraightLevel, apart from a multi rating of course, what were the license/hours requirements to hire said Bagby DA-42?

I quite like the DA-42 - although personally I'd prefer it with a slightly higher speed (not that I'd mind the fuel economy at all!), better vision around the front canopy (it'd be better with a full transparent canopy as opposed to the airliner-style one right now IMHO)...and possibly a BRS?

I stand by to be corrected on the engineering feasibilty of the above items :ok:

On the discussion of the speed/fuel economy front versus other twins....didn't a DA-42 cross the Atlantic without refuelling? Can other GA twins do that?

Edit: Found the link for the Atlantic DA-42 crossing!
http://www.aero-news.net/Community/DiscussTopic.cfm?TopicID=1254&Refresh=1

[StraightLevel]

wilco MichaelJP59

can't remember the exact requirements. i have a M/E CPL IR, and had to do a conversion course which was ok. i also already had da40 tdi experience so it wasn't too big a step for me.

the G1000 took a bit of getting used to but an excellent piece of equipment once your upto it.

if you do a google search for "da42 twin-star, bagby airfield" you'll find the website.

hope i'm not breaking the rules by posting thus info.

[hobbit1983]

Thanks for the info - will search around. Still beyond my reach on the ratings front..maybe one day soon hopefully!

Don't think you're breaking the rules - you've not posted any direct info! It's hardly advertising in any case.

[Pilotdom]

Straight and Level,

Can I ask who you rented the aircraft from and how much he charged for the rental?

Would love to fly twinstar and fly it cheap. Please feel free to Pm if you dont want to publish on here. If you dont wanna say no worries.

Dom

[StraightLevel]

price was £235/hr wet.

www.papa-bravo.com (http://www.papa-bravo.com)

hope i am not going to get into trouble for posting this.

straightlevel:)

[justinmg]

There is a good review in this months PPL/IR.

[englishal]

Does the TwinStar require a "specific type conversion"? I'm guessing previous DA42 and G1000 time should negate the need for a "conversion"....?

[BillieBob]

englishal - Differences training is mandatory when moving to any new MEP type, whether it's a Twinstar, a Duchess or a Seneca. However, there are specific issues when moving to aircraft such as the Twinstar with 'glass' cockpits and FADEC. Try reading AICs 31 & 32/2006 (Pink 98 & 99), which should tell you all you need to know.

[B2N2]

As far as rental prices go, there are still some unknown factors here;
as mentioned before, depreciation.
Also engine replacement which is currently called for at 1200 hrs.
That will change to 2000 with eventually 2400 hrs if I am not mistaken.
As a business you will have to calculate with 1200 for now so as to not lose a lot of money when it's engine time.
So a portion of the rental charge goes into the engine fund.
Another biggie, at least in the USA is insurance.
The hull value of the airplane is $500,000+.
That is quite a difference from the hull value of a Seminole or Seneca I or Aztec which could be between $80,000 and $100,000.
The insurance premiums are usually calculated as a percentage of the hull value.
So if you are looking at $25,000/year insurance premiums and you expect the plane to fly 500 hrs a year that means $50/hr is insurance premium.
250 hrs/year means $100/hr.
Now add maintenance, hangarage,cleaning cost, rent, personnel, miscellanious overhead etc etc etc.
So it won't be cheap to rent.
But neither is a 25 year old Seminole/Dutchess nor a 40 year old Aztec.

By the way,it will be cheaper to learn the Garmin 1000 on a single before you fly the DA-42.
No need to spend the first 4 hrs just learning the avionics.

[S-Works]

englishal - Differences training is mandatory when moving to any new MEP type, whether it's a Twinstar, a Duchess or a Seneca. However, there are specific issues when moving to aircraft such as the Twinstar with 'glass' cockpits and FADEC. Try reading AICs 31 & 32/2006 (Pink 98 & 99), which should tell you all you need to know.


Not sure you are right on that, MEP is a class rating and as such your entitled to fly any MEP. I learnbt on a duchess and in over 500hrs of twin flying have never been required to differences training on the myriad of other types I have flown.

If you are quoting regs for this can you post a linke please?

[S-Works]

I was not question the safety aspect of flying the twin star without differences training. Allthough as I have plenty of time on the G1000 under IFR I suspect I would not have a problem.

I was merely questioning the requirement for a formal differences sign off for every MEP.

[BillieBob]

The requirement stems from here (http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/classtyperatings.html). Note the (D) in column 3 adjacent to Multi-engine piston (land) indicating that, in accordance with note (b) above, "although the licence endorsement (column 4) contains all aeprolanes listed in column 2, the required familiarisation or differences training has still to be completed."

LASORS Section F states "For MEP Class aeroplanes, differences training with a FI or CRI is always required when converting to another type or variant within the class. However, some common sense must be applied; the amount of training will depend on the similarity of the new MEP type to those already being flown. The training must be sufficient to ensure that the pilot can operate the aeroplane systems and operate the aeroplane safely."

JAR-FCL 1.235(1) states "The differences training shall be entered in the pilot’s logbook or equivalent document and signed by a CRI/TRI/SFI(A) or
FI(A) as appropriate."

So, if you are flying a MEP type other than the Duchess for which you do not have differences training signed up in your logbook, be prepared for the insurance company to wash its hands of you should anything go wrong.