Performance: Books, Exams, Questions & Courses

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Need to Cram for the ATPL performance exam.

I need a school to do the course just prior to the exam (NOV 7th)

or....

A very friendly School instructor who will tutor me in the evenings prior to the exam and charge me accordingly.

I will position anywhere in the UK. I just need to get it passed and quick.

I have the Bristol GS notes, need any further help in passing this exam. I havn't done an exam since the CAA ATPL's in 1999

All suggestions considered, thanks in advance.

[geraldn]

check your private messages

[ClearReverse]

Check your pm's

[european champion]

I am interested in doing the quick pre exam course too,any suggestions please.

[Dotun]

Hello guys,

How good are these books by Keith Williams on performance and principles of flight. Am already using Bristol, but am finding it difficult getting my head round these two subjects. Would it be wise spending some more money getting these books and using them as a revision aid ?

Regards
DMan

[Megaton]

Sorry, Keith, but I found them a bit heavy going and in more depth than was really required. They are excellent books but I don't think you really have the time to go through all his questions and solutions for one subject whilst studying for another 6 or 7 exams.

[Future Pundit]

Sorry to dissagree with you Ham Phisted but I found them invaluable. Each to their own!

I spent about 2-3 days going through each book. You do not need to learn every question and can skip the areas you understand. I only discovered these books (some had not been written) halfway through my exams. In those subjects where I used the books (my weaker subjects) I got over 90%. The results speak for themselves.

[Dotun]

Thanks guys for the reply. I guess I will buy the performance book and see how the exam goes. 2 - 3 days study seems ok.

Regards
DMan

[pugzi]

Hi,

I do performance private tuition all the time for people, just PM me if you want, most people only need a fews hours and then the penny drops and the sun starts to shine once more

[crap pilot]

Is there a book for each subject or just PoF and Performance?
Where can i get hold of these Books?

[WX Man]

You can get them direct from Keith at EPTA in Bournemouth.

The "Magic Book" as it became to be known in my ATPL circle of friends is invaluable and WELL worth it.

If you don't invest the time looking through each of the 1000 questions, you're not investing enough time. Work harder! Or spend another £54 lining the pockets of the CAA!

[Future Pundit]

Another purchase I reccomend making are the 'Keynotes For Pilots Key Facts for JAA ATPL' There are two books in the series at £20 each and they cover all the JAA subjects.

The beauty of them is that they contain all the information vital for the exams but not in a huge A4 file. It means you can read them easily in front of the TV, or at work if you want to be discreet.

Anyway, they worked for me.

[Turkish777]

Just to let you know thanks to me querying a question (2 pointer graph) on this exam you were all awarded a credit for my complaint regardless if you got in right on wrong...

So those of you which passed with a score of 75%-80% seriously owe me a beer when I get back to England...

Turkish 1 / CAA 0



:ok:

[G-SP0T]

G-SPOT never gets lost - i am a navigating king

[helicopter-redeye]

Try GTS at Bournmouth. Pete Swatton wrote the manual on Performance. www.gtserv.co.uk from memory.

h-r:)

[smith]

Future Pundit

WHere do you get the books you mentioned from?

[Glide Perfectionist]

Smith

In answer for Future Pundit (account scewed up!) I bought mine from the Transair shop in Gloucester. They are written by Stuart E Smith/Mike T Groves ISBN 0-9540275-2-3 and ISBN 0-9540275-3-1.

I then bought the Keynotes for CPL skills test, however this was not quite as much use due to the differing/evolving methods used by different instructors and schools but again it was useful as a quick reference guide.

[smith]

Glide perfectionist

Cant seem to find these books in Transair, what is the exact title of them? Thanks

[Glide Perfectionist]

smith

I have dug one book out and the exact title is:
"KEYNOTES FOR PILOTS

KEY FACTS for JAA ATPL Examinations Vol 1" and vol 2

The web pages are:
http://www.transair.co.uk/product4.asp?SID=2&Product_ID=757

and

http://www.transair.co.uk/product4.asp?SID=2&Product_ID=758


Hope this helps.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Hello there,

Anybody else get the graph question answers as:

MEP Climb question - 1280 ft per min

MRJT Landing Distance - 3100 metres

Been fretting all the way home!!! :(

[ClearReverse]

What was the MEP question? do you have the details

[Dotun]

Those were the correct answer, cant remember the questions now.

Regards
DMan

[G-SPOTs Lost]

A hopefully positive reply! thanks chaps.

The MEP question was something along the lines of what is the rate of climb, refer to graph blah blah blah. The rest of the information is as described at the top of the graph.

Pertinent figures were:

PA 14000
Temp -20
Aircraft Mass 4000lbs
Mxture fully rich

one of the answers was 1280 ft which looked pretty good
other answers probably related to temp +20, the dotted line which indicated a leaner mixture and one other.

The MRJT Question was a mass of 50k kg Antikid inop 15kt tailwind, dry runway what was the minimum acceptable runway length?

A couple of interesting questions on the effect of clearway and stopway on the effects on the balanced field figures on the graph. Had to consider the two correction tables and describe what was the effect on V1 and field limited TOM. Caught me by surprise a little bit as I'd managed to get a lot of feedback material from all the schools and it wasn't covered on any of them.

Anyway thanks for replying

[Charlie Zulu]

G-SPOT,

Can you remember any of those interesting questions you speak of at the end of your last post?

I have my Performance exam next month and wouldn't mind knowing what I could be up against! I'm currently going through the Bristol OLQB as well as lots of feedback papers that I have from the brush up course in July. I decided to take Performance at a later date as I wasn't ready for it. :D

Incidentially did you take the PoF exam yesterday? If so was there anything unexpected contained within? Yes another one I decided I wasn't ready for.

Best wishes,

Richard.

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi All,

Please can someone confirm which of the following formula I should use for change in fuel flow when the aircraft mass changes?

For example:

Two identical turbojets are at the same altitude and same speed and have the same specific fuel consumption. Plane A weighs 130,000 kg and has a fuel flow of 4,300kg/hr. If plane B weighs 115,000kg/hr. What is its fuel flow:

a. 3804kg/hr
b. 4044kg/hr
c. 3364kg/hr
d. 3530kg/hr

I am using the formula:

( new weight / old weight ) * old fuel flow

This gives me an answer of (a) which is the correct answer in one set of feedback (for various questions along these lines).

However another set of feedback I have seen shows the formula as:

( ( new weight / old weight ) squared ) * old fuel flow

This would give the answer as 3364kg/hr.

I am pretty sure it is the first formula (the one which doesn't square the result of the weight division) but would like some confirmation in regards to this type of question...

Many many thanks in advance.

Best wishes,

Richard.

PS. Is there anyone on pprune attending the examination venue at Gatwick on the 5th December? I'm sitting Principles of Flight and Performance that day.

[Alex Whittingham]

The consensus view is (a), the confusion over the other possibility dating from very early on in the JAA exams and arising from some misleading information in a certain school's notes. Discussed in depth here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=100616&perpage=20&pagenumber=1)

[Charlie Zulu]

Many thanks for the explanation Alex and also the link to the previous string of discussion. I should have carried out a search and I would have found the question in full discussed within.

All of the question banks / papers that I have seen give the answer as (a) but it was a set of questions from a certain school that caused the confusion for me.

Many thanks again.

[DTTogaLI]

Hi, a simple question..
It tell us the values for low speed stall and mach buffet or shock stall for various masses/altitude?


tnx.

[pugzi]

more importantly it tells you the mach number for the low speed and high speed buffet. Good for find aerodynamic and manouvre ceilings

Pugs

[tinmouse]

Hi Folks,

If anyone knows where I can get One-to-one tuition in the London area for Performance, do please let me know.

Thanks
Tinmouse.

[rocketboots]

My Freind

Get yourself down to Bournemouth for a weekend.Go see Pete Swatton of GTS. What he doesn`t know of Perf isn`t worth knowing.

Enjoy.:ok: :ok:

[tinmouse]

Thanks rocketboots,

I may have to do that, if I don't find anyone in London.

[Steve Tindle]

I cant myself but i know 2 men that can and they are the best in the business.
You will have to travel to either Swindon or Oxford take your pick?
Let me know if you are interested.
Any other subjects give me a shout and I'm sure i can help you out
Cheers Steve

[tinmouse]

Hi Steve,

I sent you a PM, I could do with some help with performance to guarantee a pass as its my last subject and last sitting! I'm willing to go to them also. I'm looking for about 1 to 2 weeks tuition. Whatever it takes.

I would appreciate it.

Kindest regards,
Tinmouse.

[tinmouse]

Hi all,

I’m just putting out one more post for One-on One Performance tuition. If anyone has received any one-on one tuition with performance in the passed, please do let me know, I’d appreciate it a great deal. I’m also willing to travel.

Thanks again.
Tinmouse.

[flyingcamel]

I believe Steve Francis does one to one Performance tuition. He works for OAT media at the moment but does do seminars for Met and Performance on a fairly regular basis. I went to a Met one a month or so ago and it was very good. You maybe able to find his email online or get the generic office email on OAT's website.

The Camel

[Steve Tindle]

Tinmouse check your PM's I have replied now mate sorry for the delay but i have been away for a while.

The contacts you requested are in an e mail to your private account.

Cheers mate good luck with your exams.
If you need any more assistance in any subject give me a shout
Steve

[chrisbl]

Anyone have any recomendations re above . Doing just this :ugh: with the one I have.
Many thanks

[tonypool]

Oxford Aviation performance book made performance very easy to understand. I also have a set of Naples study notes and that was well written and just backed up what I learnt from the Oxford book.

Good luck as I was well pleased to have passed this exam as in my opinion it is not an easy one to get your head around.

[scroggs]

Try a search. this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=193626&highlight=performance) is just one of the relevant threads I found.

Scroggs

[chrisbl]

Have the Oxford and am :ugh: , thanks Scroggs for the link.

[pugzi]

Hi,

I know aircraft performance very well, and if your prepared to trust me, the best performance book on the market today, in an easy style read with good pictures is the one from Atlantic Flight Training. It has a picture of a Cheetah (animal) on the front. It was written by Jacqui Suren who I can also say is a very good lecturer, a goddess dare I say. This book deals with what you need to know for the exams, i dare you not to understand what is written.

However, I hear that there might be some competition for this book ;)

Pugs

[RoosterBooster]

Hi ya all,

Can anyone please suggest any books, notes or training material that I can use to get to grips with performance.

Many thanks.

RB

[geraldn]

Ive been asked ''Have you passed performance A?'' on an application form.
What is it exactly?:uhoh:
Cheers.

[ramon76]

I might start a SSTR....

I have a CAA CPL, (JAA) and at the time, I did not take the "performance A" test. Will I need it in order to start a Type Rating and then to work on a airline (B737) Is it mandatory? nobody told me at the time...
Thank you in advance!!

Ramon

[ramon76]

Hi Gerald!
I JUST posted a very similar thread, at the same time as you have, about perf A.... :-)

It is an exam you take about performance of big jets.

For multi engine propeller aircraft, you take performance E.

At least as far as I know, in the UK CAA.....

[geraldn]

Thanks Ramon ,
so its got nothing to do with the Performance exam of the 14 ATPL Ground school Theory subjects? or is it exactly that?

[EGCC4284]

Just tick yes on the form if you have a JAA licence as your JAA ATPLs exams are all you need. Perf A was the old CAA route.

[geraldn]

Cheers EGCC4284,
the thought of another ground school exam gives me the creeps:{

[Hour Builder]

If you do not have Perf A, you do therefore now need "JAR Performance" exams.

You can no longer take Perf A, but either of these exams are required for all initial Multi-pilot type ratings.

[Hour Builder]

Hi Gerald!
I JUST posted a very similar thread, at the same time as you have, about perf A.... :-)
It is an exam you take about performance of big jets.
For multi engine propeller aircraft, you take performance E.
At least as far as I know, in the UK CAA.....

Please see my post on your thread. Sounds like Ramon will need to do JAR Performance as you do not have Perf A. Having passed and banked JAR ATPL (A) theory exams, will include the requirement for JAR Performance and/or Perf A.

HB

[ramon76]

Cheers!

I will gladly sit that exam, I think it is good stuff to go though....
Hopefully I will be able to sit it in Spain, so I don´t have to travel to England... as it is all JAA now. I just sent an email to the CAA....

thank you again!

[AliTee]

Hi,
Where can I find a school that gives JAA "Performance A" Training. There is a company in eastern Europe that will hire me without a JAA ATPL, but I need to have this training. I've googled and searched some european flight school sites, but can't even find what this course is. Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks.

[whiskey1]

An Old CAA Exam based on the L1011.
You used to do Performance exam for the Class of aircraft you flew. So Perf E for example.

If you want to fly a Multi engine jet (Performance Class A) and you have a CAA Licence issued without having passed Performance A you need to do the JAA Performance Exam. This Includes the MRJT, MEP and SEP of CAP 698.

W1

[AliTee]

Thanks for the reply Whiskey. Here's my deal: I have an FAA ATPL and am typed on the CL-65 (CRJ), my only jet type rating. The company flies A320's and specifically asks for Performance A on the posting. I don't have any CAA ratings, as a matter of fact, I'm unclear as to what it even stands for. Where do I look for this training?

[B767PL]

Does anybody know what the Performance A for ICAO license holders is? Or have any information on it, I tried looking it up but had trouble finding any information, dont know if im searching right.

Thanks, best regards. :ok:

[redsnail]

Performance A I believe used to be the term used by the UK CAA to mean aeroplanes that could fulfil a specific climb performance with an engine failure at V1.

It's now referred to as JAR 25 and the equivalent in the FAAs is FAR 25. Australia's equivalent is CAO 20.7.1b.

I believe you cannot study for Perf A any more, it's now incorporated into the wonderful ATPL exams. :yuk: