More dosh, less tax

[JNo]

Fellas,
Just heard on Radio 4, a leaked announcement due for 10Am today. When we go away on Ops we're fianlly not going to have to pay any income tax and there's going to be an "additional payment" made too!

[mbga9pgf]

Fellas,
Just heard on Radio 4, a leaked announcement due for 10Am today. When we go away on Ops we're fianlly not going to have to pay any income tax and there's going to be an "additional payment" made too!


All of us, or just the men? Oh, and will that be a months tax back for how many days in theatre?

[DownloadDog]

Tone has just said on BBC1 news that Des Browne will be making an announcement later today about benefits for our troops on ops - should be interesting....

[mary_hinge]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6036309.stm

UK forces serving in Afghanistan and Iraq are to receive cash bonuses to pay off their tax bill, Defence Secretary Des Browne is set to announce.
BBC Political Editor Nick Robinson says it follows a campaign to stop soldiers paying tax on their earnings - something that American GIs do not do.

Whitehall sources say this follows an agreement between Mr Browne and Chancellor Gordon Brown.

Mr Browne is set to make the announcement in the Commons on Tuesday.

[The Helpful Stacker]

About fecking time although a little to late for me. I started my resettlement yesterday.:rolleyes:

Do you rekon I'll be able to back date my claims for the last 12 years*? No doubt it'd work out a pretty penny.:}











* I'm aware the computer would say no.

[Skeleton]

LOL Stacker spat me cornflakes out!!

I would not worry as knowing our president you will only qualify if your application is presented by both parents accompanied by there godparents.

[angels]

Nice one Stacker!

This is way overdue.

[Tombstone]

Rumours at Marham suggest that this will not kick in until 2008.

If that is the case, it's just a ploy to make Tony :mad: Bliar look pretty, whilst hedging bets that we have far fewer folk OOA by then.

If they are going to do it, they must bring it in with immediate effect for it to have any real impact on morale.

[Gainesy]

What's the betting that the "bonus" will be taxed?

[Fortyodd2]

Well, if it's true, there goes tanche 3 Typhoon, aircraft carrier, A400m, Suppressant foam in the hercs, training ammo for everyone, etc, etc............

[Tombstone]

Aaaahhh,

it's so refreshing to see so much trust being instilled in our government by its military servants...

[mbga9pgf]

Well, if it's true, there goes tanche 3 Typhoon,

No Loss there then, dont see tem doing much in the desert these days, and with all the support equipment I hear it needs to deploy, not expecting to see it any further east than the plains of europe any time soon!!!!

[snakepit]

As usual the cash falls short of "leaked" promises.

Its to be a tax free cash bonus to cover tax of those in theater. Brown said its too difficult to just give tax free pay.

Now the cynical side in me says that a change it tax rules would give troops a long term financial bonus when putting life on the line. However a cash bonus can be taken away without any notice at all, just like all our other allowances. :ugh:

Its not enough, too little and too late, and I bet it will disappear just like the flash in the pan promise it is. Still it will make Blair and Brown believe that they have made a difference and they will sleep better in their beds knowing that the service men are now well paid and dying happier.

You aint seen me right.

[PompeySailor]

LSA + Income Tax = X Factor.

You are seeing the end of the "all of one company" X Factor, which is possibly a good thing for those that don't suffer from Salt-water activated bad back syndrome, or postingitis.

Will be interesting to see if they backdate the whole thing.

[antipodean alligator]

Nice to hear that the motherland has finally thought of compensating HM Forces for being shot at.....We've been looked after for years down under.

There was nothing that my RAF nosegunner hated more during Telic I than me making my cash machine "Ker-ching!" call every time we crossed the border.

Hope that it is suitably large and that you don't get rodgered!:ok:

[MostlyModerate]

The way I heard it was that the tax-free lump sum was to be the same for all, and as such would exceed the tax deducted from the lower paid by a useful margin.
But would it be sufficient to cover the deduction of the highest-paid ? If so, then the lower-paid should be looking at some kind of bonanza.

[cynicalint]

Cynicism kicks in again. When the army and navy get their bonus (how can justly deserved salary be termed a bonus?), how long will it take the RAF to programme in a patch to JPA to ensure that those who deserve this extra payment will get the correct amount at the right time?

[snowball1]

On itn news that it's £2200 per 6 month tour, anyone in the raf see a problem here!

[RODF3]

On itn news that it's £2200 per 6 month tour, anyone in the raf see a problem here!

Not really, they will just make the min tour length 6 months!! hurrah:mad:

[PompeySailor]

On itn news that it's £2200 per 6 month tour, anyone in the raf see a problem here!

Oops. Maybe you can aggregate it? Shouldn't take long to knock up 182 days in theatre? Watch the ship's programmes change as well. The COs will be trying to stay in the lat/long box for 182 days, the planners will be strong-armed to shorten the deployments, it happened with LSSA(AT+).

Backdated to 1 Apr this year - the Paras will be happy, but it should be backdated to when this shower of ****e first took us into this shambles. 1999......

[TheInquisitor]

2200/182=12.08 GBP per day.

Wow, that's generous. :}

Will it be paid at a Daily Rate, or will it be a straight 2200 per full 6 months? If so, there will be ALOT of people who won't get it.

Watch them take LSA away to offset it...

[Mad_Mark]

Yep, Sky News are also reporting that the £2200 bonus will be for all ranks on 6 month tours in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I fully appreciate the hard and dangerous job that the Army are doing on the ground in these places but they are doing their job - i.e. fighting a ground war. When I go out there I do my job, i.e. fly and provide a service. We all (I imagine) joined the Armed Forces in order to do the job of our respective Forces and that is what we are paid to do. I however joined to do my job defending the UK, not spend months away from home and family.

Personally I feel that the 'payment' should be for all personnel away from home on operations for any length of time, and the only fair ways of doing this is to either make that time tax exempt during their deployment or have a reasonable daily rate of deployed ops allowance. That way ALL personnel deployed on ops, not just those on the ground in those 2 countries, should get some compensation for being away from home for so long.

MadMark!!! :mad:

[ChezTanker]

Good news for the guys on the ground getting shot at. Probably not help the retention of folks that fly over the hotspots on a daily basis, or the chaps that support them on the ground and in the air. Still a good start - you never know, when the full package comes out it may surprise us.

[Jambo Jet]

This is merely a vote grabbing idea and has no service welfare aspects to it whatsoever.

Des Browne concentrated on how well off the Squaddie would be with this payment rather than having his pay tax free like our allies.

Where as what he really meant was this payment would be cheaper for the government if it was a flat rate because the high tax payers still pay 40% tax.

Good for squadies, and bloody cheap option for Government.

[Bannock]

Stunned silence in the crewroom. No gripes about the Army but for Des to stand there and proclaim a good deal for all beggars belief.
A real kick in the nads.
For him to stand there and say that this deal is better than Tax Relief is a an outright Lie.
A new low from our Govt

[AHQHI656SQN]

It is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, however it would have been much better if earnings were tax free while deployed on operations.

[PTT]

...it would have been much better if earings were tax free while deployed on operations.
Not operations exacty but if you can get on a trip to Bahrain you can probably get some nice gold ones cheap. :}

[TheInquisitor]

...and standby for the crap payrise this coming April. Something about being 'paid enough already' will undoubtedly be bandied as an excuse.

I don't begrudge the 'lads' this extra cash - they deserve it. But my tax bill over 6 months is more than 9,000GBP.

Why is this Leftie govt wholly incapable of paying people what they deserve without some kind of 'redistribution' agenda steering it?

[BellEndBob]

I'm back out there before Xmas. As said, better than nothing but my Tax bill will still be several thousand pounds. :*

It should be for all tour lengths, not just 6 months.

But then, the Army actually fight for their people. Our leaders are still too busy bagging their jolly in a Typhoon or sowing sequins on their No 5's for the Gay Pride Ball.

[The Helpful Stacker]

I can't work out how giving us tax-free pay would be such a difficult issue. F&CO CS personnel have been tax-free overseas for years.

Perhaps that'd be a little too good for the officers (well actually anyone who earns over about £26,500, so that'll be Cpl's with a few years in post) for a Labour government so desperately trying to turn red again after a few years being ever-so-blue.

Solidarity brother.:ugh:

[The Ugly Fend Off]

MPA ?!?! would be a result....


standby for incoming!!!

[serf]

Its a good deal, staish at Benson said so live on Sky News.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Its a good deal, staish at Benson said so live on Sky News.

Must be true then.

Is he pushing for higher office or is he happy with Station Commander Benson, not that I'm drawing any link between approval of a hatchet job by his political masters and his career prospects of course...?

[PlasticCabDriver]

Well, its a start, just not a very good start. Assuming you don't have to do a whole 6 months and its a daily rate:

Approximate "Tax Bill Refund" = £12 per day.

My approximate tax bill = £40 per day.


While better than nothing, I'm not exactly leaping for joy.

Wouldn't it be much simpler to put it on the tax return:

Q: "Are you in the Royal Navy, Royal Marines, Army, Royal Air Force?" Y/N

Q: If Y, how many days did you spend in an officially designated operational area (or words to that effect)?

[Grimweasel]

The 6 months bit is a little harsh, as I have been on many a 'trip' for under 6 Months but in equally crappy conditions. As has been said, better than a depth charge up to the makers name plate, but lets award the bonus on the same criteria as qualifying for a medal, ie over 28 days service blah, blah. That way ALL personnel serving on Ops stand a better chance of being rewarded. Watch the next directive from the lords and masters ensuring roulemonts take place every 5 months and 2 weeks, just to save money and get an MBE!! (Cyril the Cynic!)

Weasel

[downsizer]

Perhaps we won't get shafted for only doing 4 month tours or less!:hmm:

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/BrowneConfirmsPayBonusForServicePersonnelOnOperations.htm

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

...I am pleased to announce today that we intend to introduce a new, tax-free, flat-rate, operational bonus, which for a six month tour would amount to two thousand, two hundred and forty pounds. For an average private or lance-corporal, this is equivalent to the amount of tax they would pay during a six month tour. It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid. The most junior will be over five hundred pounds better off after a six month tour. Just as importantly, everyone on operations will be equally better off, by just under £100 per week, free of tax...

...The payment will be backdated to 1 April 2006, as an adjustment to pay arrangements in the current financial year. Full details of eligibility will be made public shortly but I can confirm that besides Afghanistan it will apply to our forces in Iraq and in the Balkans...

The 'six month tour' quote is an illustration on how much it would be worth, not a statement of the minimum criteria. Here's hoping that it will be piggy backed onto LSA. But at least the young squaddies will be getting it.

I bet they call it the LSA Operational Bonus LSA(OB)

[Jambo Jet]

The bit about Browne speech I liked was when he gave examples of other nations "Tax Free Exemptions" and said "We can go even further"

VOTE

1 - TAX free earnings, whilst on Ops

or

2 - Tax Free Lump Sum





1 Please. TVM

[Vage Rot]

Perhaps all tours of duty, Army, Navy and ours will now be 5 Months and 29 days!!!

Cynical - but I wouldn't put anything past these b45t4rds

[Sven Sixtoo]

Past experience suggests that grimweasel and VR have it right.
There were so many misdirections in Browne's PM interview I don't know where to start.
Sven

[TheInquisitor]

I second the vote for 1 - since I pay The Theiving Jock about 1500GBP back in tax every month.

[Skeleton]

Is the bonus taxable???


Anyone?


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Vage Rot]

Watch the next directive from the lords and masters ensuring roulemonts take place every 5 months and 2 weeks, just to save money and get an MBE!! (Cyril the Cynic!)
Weasel

Bu99er!! Never saw this before I posted!!:rolleyes:

[Ginseng]

Better than nothing, and good to see that HMG have at least accepted the case for doing something in this direction. BUT:

£2,240 for a 6-month tour is approximately equivalent to the income tax, but not including the National Insurance Contributions, due to be paid for that period by someone earning a little over £16,000 pa. for that period. So, somewhere about the level of a private soldier. However, this doesn't take into account any loss of entitlement to tax credits and the like, since presumably the bonus payment will qualify as extra income when assessing those.

Better than nothing. But not very much better than nothing. And certainly not "better" than tax free earnings while in an operational area overseas, SofS. And £2,240 is not much of a bonus for very definitely putting your life on the line for 6 months. Please spare us the spin.

Regards

Ginseng

[spaniels ears]

Just watched the speech again. He did specifically say tax free, and the wording seemed to suggest that the 2 thousand odd was representative of a six month period - not that six months would be the qualifying period. Don't know how he kept a straight face when he said "I believe we can do better" though.

[PompeySailor]

This is a con, and it's only starting to become apparent now.

It's a bonus, therefore the entitlements can be changed - locations, time qualifications and amounts. The link between tax, and this bonus, does not exist except to back up their figures. If the rate of income tax changed tomorrow, the rate of the bonus would stay the same.

They are using a clever juxtaposition with the word "tax" to make people think it's tax related - it's not. This bears no relation to your liability for tax at all. What we wanted was a change to Income Tax regulations to remove the liability to pay tax when out of UK territories for 183 days of more. We have been sold out for a cheap headline.

Look at how they are managing to fund this. Increase in MQ rents to bring them in line with the civilian sector. Reviews of CEA and other allowances. It's aimed at a very low level to recruit and retain (forget the "Warrant Officer" quote - it only works to a mid-level Corporals wages). I think that the BAFF may have been sold a dummy, it appears that ARRSE are only just starting to realise the true implications, and Gordon Brown is laughing all the way to the bank.

[Ginseng]

Oops.

After a rapid reassessment, necessitated by my inability to divide a number by 2 and come out with the answer "one-half", I have to admit that £2.240 actually equates to approximately the Income Tax and NICs for a 6-month period due on an annual income of about £25,000 (assuming normal personal allowances and no other forms of taxable income). Mea Culpa. Better than I thought, but I still don't think it's wonderful.

Regards

Ginseng

[trap one]

Nice to hear that the motherland has finally thought of compensating HM Forces for being shot at.....We've been looked after for years down under.
There was nothing that my RAF nosegunner hated more during Telic I than me making my cash machine "Ker-ching!" call every time we crossed the border.
Hope that it is suitably large and that you don't get rodgered!:ok:

Were you the same Antipodean who used to vent urine down the sink over Germany, by any chance?
If so the boys diown the back usually forgave you the extra dosh when you bought the vino!

[downsizer]

To qoute from the link...
The bonus will be worth around £2,240 to eligible personnel completing a six-month operational tour, roughly equivalent to the amount of tax paid over a six month operational tour by our most junior personnel. Proportional amounts will be paid to those undertaking shorter and longer tours.

So it would appear a tour doesn't have to be 6 months.....

[BlueBird128]

The way all the media are reporting it, they make it sound like at the end of your tour, the pay office (or, god forbid, the JPA 'super'computer) work out how long your tour was, and give you a tax free bonus. That's not actually what Des Browne said. I quote:
"I am pleased to announce today that we intend to introduce a new, tax-free, flat-rate, operational bonus, which for a six month tour would amount to two thousand, two hundred and forty pounds."
Full transcript available at:
www.mod.uk/DefenceInte...ations.htm
I'm sure it will come out over the coming days, but the way I read it is that it will probably be a daily rate, somewhere in the order of £12.24.
This would mean that for 31 day month you'll get just under £380 tax-free. I quote again:
"It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid. The most junior will be over five hundred pounds better off after a six month tour."
That's great news for the lowest paid guys (and honestly guys, I don't begrudge you that, but if you were actually getting the basic salary you deserve, then this would be an issue for you too), but I'd question the "half our people" statement. As a high band level 7 Sgt, I pay £499.90 in tax for a 31 day month. Add on to that the tax I'll be paying on my LSSA when I eventually start to get paid it (Probably another £80ish). So for me personally, I'd be £200 pounds A MONTH better off if we'd been given tax exempt status rather than this fudge that they've come up with.:ugh:
I'm emailing my MP today, who happens to be a TA Officer just back from Helmand, to ask where this "half our people" bollox has come from. I don't want sound bytes I want figures.
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

[PompeySailor]

The way all the media are reporting it, they make it sound like at the end of your tour, the pay office (or, god forbid, the JPA 'super'computer) work out how long your tour was, and give you a tax free bonus. That's not actually what Des Browne said. I quote:
"I am pleased to announce today that we intend to introduce a new, tax-free, flat-rate, operational bonus, which for a six month tour would amount to two thousand, two hundred and forty pounds."
Full transcript available at:
www.mod.uk/DefenceInte...ations.htm (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInte...ations.htm)
I'm sure it will come out over the coming days, but the way I read it is that it will probably be a daily rate, somewhere in the order of £12.24.
This would mean that for 31 day month you'll get just under £380 tax-free. I quote again:
"It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid. The most junior will be over five hundred pounds better off after a six month tour."
That's great news for the lowest paid guys (and honestly guys, I don't begrudge you that, but if you were actually getting the basic salary you deserve, then this would be an issue for you too), but I'd question the "half our people" statement. As a high band level 7 Sgt, I pay £499.90 in tax for a 31 day month. Add on to that the tax I'll be paying on my LSSA when I eventually start to get paid it (Probably another £80ish). So for me personally, I'd be £200 pounds A MONTH better off if we'd been given tax exempt status rather than this fudge that they've come up with.:ugh:
I'm emailing my MP today, who happens to be a TA Officer just back from Helmand, to ask where this "half our people" bollox has come from. I don't want sound bytes I want figures.
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

"Half our people" is right, because we are a triangular organisation, give or take a few bulges. The Command structure is much wider at the bottom than the top, or should be, and this is based around Army structures. People are now starting to wake up to this overall con, and see it for what it is. The "bottom of the triangle" guys are also becoming aware of a potential problem regarding other government allowances as well - this bonus may lift them above the line where they receive Housing Benefit, etc.

Every Government cloud has a lining which is designed to shower you alternately with ****e and sunshine.

[BlueBird128]

But one of the points I've picked up on is this:

Quote:

"For an average private or lance-corporal, this is equivalent to the amount of tax they would pay during a six month tour. It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid."

For that to be true, half of 'our people' are getting paid less than an average Private or Lance Corporal (which is it Mr Browne).:confused:
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

[bayete]

Come to the UK.
Put a brick through a window.
Volunteer for a free flight home.
Go to JAIL, do not pass GO but collect £2500.:D

[PompeySailor]

But one of the points I've picked up on is this:

Quote:

"For an average private or lance-corporal, this is equivalent to the amount of tax they would pay during a six month tour. It means that half our people on operations will be better off than under a tax exemption – increasingly so for the lower paid."

For that to be true, half of 'our people' are getting paid less than an average Private or Lance Corporal (which is it Mr Browne).:confused:
_________________
"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Poor terminology by Des. The amount of £2200 is pretty much what your average LCpl will pay for a 6 month tour. They will break even. The guys at the bottom of the pile, by virtue of being paid less and therefore paying less tax, will come out with a profit (they will get about £500 more than they have paid in tax). Those higher up the scale will dip out.

For example.......

Your taxable income is £21597 as a Lower Spine, Level 9 OR1.
The tax you pay on the first £2,150 is £215 (taxed at 10%).
This leaves £21597- £2,150 = £19447. This is taxed at 22%.
22% of £19447 is £4278.34
So total tax is £215 plus £4278.34= £4493.34 pa (half is £2246.67)

Navy: Levels 1-9 – Able Rate
R.M.: Levels 1-9 – Marine: Levels 5-9
Lance Corporal (or RM passed JCC)
Army: Levels 1-7 – Private: Levels 5-9
Lance Corporal
RAF: Level 1 Aircraftmen & Leading
Aircraftmen.
Levels 2-9 – Senior Aircraftmen: Level
5-9 Junior Tech/Senior Aircraftmen(T)

Will also cover OF1 up to Level 5. Everyone else is not on break even or profit.

* Does not include free pay under your tax code. Everyone seems to have a different one, so add your free allowance to this figure!

[antipodean alligator]

Were you the same Antipodean who used to vent urine down the sink over Germany, by any chance?
If so the boys diown the back usually forgave you the extra dosh when you bought the vino!

Sorry mate, that's a big Neg on that claim to fame....Although I probably know him as an ex-trashie!

I was 50% of the crew and there was no-one sitting behind me - at least not in the same jet.

[Wader2]

What Des actually said was "everyone on operations will be equally better off, by just under £100 per week, free of tax".

It was the MOD release and not Des that says: "Proportional amounts will be paid to those undertaking shorter and longer tours."

Des then said: "The payment will be backdated to 1 April 2006, as an adjustment to pay arrangements in the current financial year. Full details of eligibility will be made public shortly but I can confirm that besides Afghanistan it will apply to our forces in Iraq and in the Balkans"

[PompeySailor]

What Des actually said was "everyone on operations will be equally better off, by just under £100 per week, free of tax".

It was the MOD release and not Des that says: "Proportional amounts will be paid to those undertaking shorter and longer tours."

Des then said: "The payment will be backdated to 1 April 2006, as an adjustment to pay arrangements in the current financial year. Full details of eligibility will be made public shortly but I can confirm that besides Afghanistan it will apply to our forces in Iraq and in the Balkans"

I have it on good advice that Des needs an Instructional Technique course, especially with regards to staying on script and not making it up as he goes along!

Sit tight, all will become clear once the rounds of frenzied meetings in the corridors of power in SW1 have settled down.

[Wader2]

ROFLOL

Oral statement to the House of Commons by Rt Hon Des Browne MP on Tuesday 10 October 2006:

Now I want to compare the printed speech with what he said.

[potatoman]

£380 per month tax is roughly what you'd pay (in income tax, big change if include NICs) if you earned around £27k per year, so that's your break-even point. Not bad, to be fair. Still rather not pay income tax though.

[Wader2]

Des . . . staying on script and not making it up as he goes along!

Sit tight, all will become clear once the rounds of frenzied meetings in the corridors of power in SW1 have settled down.

Come on PS, spill :}

[PompeySailor]

Come on PS, spill :}

Not yet. To protect my Source (who is several ranks higher than me, and therefore realistically to protect my arse!), all I can say is that they are hoping to get a clarification out shortly by way of IPR and Galaxy Notices. It's frenzied by the Embankment at the moment, so they need a bit of space to tie up all the loose ends and to clarify the contradictory parts of the speech.

[Wader2]

I have the MOD bulletin 25/06 written 8/10 with the last line before the speech stating (check against delivery). Then the speech.

This is dated as an oral delivery and again says check against the speech. The whole was last updated 11/10.

Now has it been checked against the speech?

[BlueBird128]

£380 per month tax is roughly what you'd pay (in income tax, big change if include NICs) if you earned around £27k per year, so that's your break-even point. Not bad, to be fair. Still rather not pay income tax though.
When I worked it out I got the break even point as £21536.40?
Check my maths someone (maybe I shoulda took sum of them GCSE fings):
£0-2150 @ 10% = £215
£2151-£21536.40 @ 22% = £4265
((4265+215)/365)x31=£380(for a 31 day month)
If I'm right, that equates to a Level 9 LCpl on lower band, or a Level 5 Pte/LCpl on higher band. That's not even taking into account the tax they'll be paying on their LSSA/LSA or, as potatoman said, NI contributions.

[TMJ]

Not yet. To protect my Source (who is several ranks higher than me, and therefore realistically to protect my arse!), all I can say is that they are hoping to get a clarification out shortly by way of IPR and Galaxy Notices. It's frenzied by the Embankment at the moment, so they need a bit of space to tie up all the loose ends and to clarify the contradictory parts of the speech.

I dunno, I would have thought it would make sense to work out the details of the plan before announcing it... maybe I'm just naieve.

[Safety_Helmut]

BlueBird

You seem to have forgotten the personal allowance.

S_H

[Roland Pulfrew]

And then of course there is the article in Today's Times

Britain
The Times October 11, 2006
Troops serving in warzones to get tax-free bonuses
By David Robertson and Michael Evans
TROOPS who serve for six months in Iraq and Afghanistan are to receive a tax-free bonus of £2,240, after a campaign to give them a better financial deal.
The new arrangement will cost the Treasury between £60 million and £70 million this financial year.
The announcement came on the day Treasury and Ministry of Defence officials revealed that there were tough negotiations under way over the future of some key procurement programmes.
Treasury officials engaged in spending-round negotiations for next year’s budget settlements highlighted three projects that could be vulnerable: the acquisition of two Type 45 destroyers, each valued at £605 million; the development of a new generation of armoured personnel carriers, known as FRES (future rapid effects system), costing £12 billion; and a 25-year private finance initiative scheme for a new tri-Service training programme, costing about £10 billion. The Times learnt yesterday that the Treasury is demanding that the MoD cut one major project plus the order for the two destroyers. MoD sources said that the contracts, along with other procurement projects, were being looked at under the negotiations but said that there would be no decisions until next July.
Meanwhile, the Treasury has committed itself to providing extra money for the bonus scheme, which will benefit thousands of Service personnel. There are currently 7,200 troops in Iraq and 5,600 in Afghanistan.
So Peter and Paul springs to mind. The Treasury and that thieving wanabe Brown will get the money back somehow.:rolleyes: Don't ever forget Gordon Brown DOES NOT like and DOES NOT like paying for HM Forces!!:}

[PompeySailor]

When I worked it out I got the break even point as £21536.40?
Check my maths someone (maybe I shoulda took sum of them GCSE fings):
£0-2150 @ 10% = £215
£2151-£21536.40 @ 22% = £4265
((4265+215)/365)x31=£380(for a 31 day month)
If I'm right, that equates to a Level 9 LCpl on lower band, or a Level 5 Pte/LCpl on higher band. That's not even taking into account the tax they'll be paying on their LSSA/LSA or, as potatoman said, NI contributions.

Could have saved yourself a headache. See post #54!

The key here is to forget about the "tax" word. This is a bonus which is designed to be around the same figure as the tax paid by Pte/LCpl, not to meet a tax bill. It's a nice figure that they plucked out of the air which was deemed to be affordable, and which they could spin as "almost like" a tax rebate. They've sold it wrong (again), as they should have simply called it an "in-theatre hazardous duty bonus" - this would recognise the inherent dangers of serving in certain areas, and would not have fired off all the calculations whereby everyone over the OR1 level thinks they are being seen off. The same IPR team as Pay2K, obviously.

[Ali Barber]

I think you also left out the intial tax free allowance in your calculation that everyone is entitled to.

[trap one]

Sorry mate, that's a big Neg on that claim to fame....Although I probably know him as an ex-trashie!
I was 50% of the crew and there was no-one sitting behind me - at least not in the same jet.
Well not a prob we had a couple of exchange RAAF/RAN most FC's but there was a pilot later who was in time for post 9/11, who had the same money sounds every time we'ed rotate for a Mission over the FRY/Kosovo. Still the bloke had a good reason as his Grand Dad was shot down over the Ruhr n killed.

[trap one]

On the subject of the "bonus" IMHO its the usual fiddle by the Gov to look like they are caring sharing ETC but in reality couldn't give a hoot about the troops in harms way. It just grates when you compare the support that any other Western nation for its troops, to that of UK PLC.
A lot of the time UK forces deploy without proper kit, or the same scale as the other nations. I know that we're supposed to help UK jobs but how many times do we enter into dodgy equipment UK/Joint projects only to see the costs spiralling out of control.
If we concentrated on a particular part of the market and sold that kit to the buyer then maybe we could then buy the best kit on the market for the areas we don't build in.
Ok so we buy SU27's or Arleigh Burke destroyers loosing UK jobs in those areas, but as we are buying off the shelf we save. With the savings we could set up servicing bases for the equipment we buy and off set the losses that way. With all the money we fail to waste then we could afford body armour for all ETC and even Tax Free inside a combat zone. Or even something akin to Veterans Administration in the USA with guaranteed Medical cover and benefits,
Yes I am bitter and twisted and yes I left but it still grips when the country asks it's Forces to do the job on a shoe string.

[wobble2plank]

Firstly, I think this will be a great benefit to those serving in these s**tholes who thoroughly deserve any bonus they can get imho.
Unfortunately the usual government spin and bulls**t has been applied in order to detract from the woeful underfunding of our increasingly overstretched armed forces.
The Defence Ministers bland statement that our armed forces are 'among the best paid in the world' was a classic as he went on to compare GI for Squaddie on pay. How he can compare the two is beyond comprehension!!! Anyone who has been 'State side' can see the difference instantly. On one side you have a soldier/airman/sailor who has the backing of his/her entire country/community, excellent military equipment and second line support, discounts in most major store chains, lower tax bill (no tax when deployed on the countries behest), low state taxes and a high standard of living regarded as an upholder of the countries beliefs.
On the other hand you have a £2000 a year better paid soldier/sailor/airman living in one of the most expensive countires in europe. Paying stealth taxes to the same government who won't provide adequate equipment due to the sweeping military spending cuts required to try and sort the NHS out. Paying said taxes whilst being deployed to every conflict area on the globe. Overstretched with multiple back to back tours, whats a family got to do with it? Servicemen shouldn't have them. Council tax, accomodation and food charges etc... Lack of second line support and, in many cases, lack of secondline employment opportunities (all outsourced now, it's cheaper). Little regard from most of the public and most stores will laugh/ charge double if the think you're in the military.
It was sad/laughable to see the boys in Kabul on national TV say that it was great to get the money but they were sure the MOD would claw it back somehow!
How can it be so complex to repay the tax for serving armed forces personnel? The pusser supplies service numbers, rank/rate and deployment dates to the tax man and the tax man sorts the rebate out. PAYE functions and the rebate could be timed to be paid in December as a christmas sweetner to those who have put their lives on the line for the politicians whim.
Rant over, thank F**k I'm retired!!!
Best of luck to all those abroad.
:* :* :ugh:

[Ali Barber]

Or simply do as the Spams do and make it tax free for the entire month, whether you're there for one day or the whole month. Makes it a lot easier on PAYE and (possibly) even JPA could cope with a change of tax code for one month.

[PompeySailor]

Or simply do as the Spams do and make it tax free for the entire month, whether you're there for one day or the whole month. Makes it a lot easier on PAYE and (possibly) even JPA could cope with a change of tax code for one month.

Is it not about time that the CDT unit came and paid you a visit? Tax codes are the equivalent of a bloody ostrich-strike for all military pay systems. Can't be fixed, can't be changed, take at least an additional tax year to balance out, and even then may not be right. You can't query them with the HR/RAO/JPA people, you have to go via the special help desk in Cardiff.

Better off filling out one online form giving dates spent outside UK territories, getting that authorised, and letting them adjust the tax for the next financial year. Because, as we all know, we are supposed to be spending two years between deployments.......

I am beginning to think that rostering a couple of weeks in the COs Staff car might be a better option here.......

[PompeySailor]

Firstly, I think this will be a great benefit to those serving in these s**tholes who thoroughly deserve any bonus they can get imho.
Unfortunately the usual government spin and bulls**t has been applied in order to detract from the woeful underfunding of our increasingly overstretched armed forces.
The Defence Ministers bland statement that our armed forces are 'among the best paid in the world' was a classic as he went on to compare GI for Squaddie on pay. How he can compare the two is beyond comprehension!!! Anyone who has been 'State side' can see the difference instantly. On one side you have a soldier/airman/sailor who has the backing of his/her entire country/community, excellent military equipment and second line support, discounts in most major store chains, lower tax bill (no tax when deployed on the countries behest), low state taxes and a high standard of living regarded as an upholder of the countries beliefs.
On the other hand you have a £2000 a year better paid soldier/sailor/airman living in one of the most expensive countires in europe. Paying stealth taxes to the same government who won't provide adequate equipment due to the sweeping military spending cuts required to try and sort the NHS out. Paying said taxes whilst being deployed to every conflict area on the globe. Overstretched with multiple back to back tours, whats a family got to do with it? Servicemen shouldn't have them. Council tax, accomodation and food charges etc... Lack of second line support and, in many cases, lack of secondline employment opportunities (all outsourced now, it's cheaper). Little regard from most of the public and most stores will laugh/ charge double if the think you're in the military.
It was sad/laughable to see the boys in Kabul on national TV say that it was great to get the money but they were sure the MOD would claw it back somehow!
How can it be so complex to repay the tax for serving armed forces personnel? The pusser supplies service numbers, rank/rate and deployment dates to the tax man and the tax man sorts the rebate out. PAYE functions and the rebate could be timed to be paid in December as a christmas sweetner to those who have put their lives on the line for the politicians whim.
Rant over, thank F**k I'm retired!!!
Best of luck to all those abroad.
:* :* :ugh:

http://www.ome.uk.com/downloads/International%20comparisons%20MERCER%202004.pdf

This document is a little on the long side, but is very interesting with the comparison of terms of service, pay, etc. Obviously does not factor in the hardship of actually getting face to face with the enemy, as some of our NATO/UN friends don't, but interesting and myth-busting nonetheless.

[Almost_done]

Thanks for that PS, that's it I'm now off to try and get a job in the Canadian AF.

[antipodean alligator]

Well not a prob we had a couple of exchange RAAF/RAN most FC's but there was a pilot later who was in time for post 9/11, who had the same money sounds every time we'ed rotate for a Mission over the FRY/Kosovo. Still the bloke had a good reason as his Grand Dad was shot down over the Ruhr n killed.


At least I had the decency to wait until we were actually sausage-side before kerching-ing!

Was this pilot 'Axe' ?

[Bannock]

Has any one got any details yet? Usually a signal is on the street as soon as the MPs arse hits the bench.

[L J R]

Slightly off thread but in line with the pay bit,
A note of caution to all thse Squaddie about to get their millions:


From the Courier Mail (Brisbane):



Diggers fleeced by lovers
By Edmund Burke
October 15, 2006 12:00am
Article from:
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Send this article: Print Email
AUSTRALIAN troops are returning from war zones to discover they've been fleeced by gold-digging wives and girlfriends.

An investigation by The Sunday Mail has found some soldiers have had up to $50,000 taken from joint bank accounts by greedy partners.
The problem has become so widespread the Defence Department now gives departing troops advice on how to protect their cash while they are overseas.

"It is out of control. You will not meet a single soldier that doesn't know someone this has happened to," one Iraq veteran told The Sunday Mail.

"It is terrible for morale because no matter how much you trust your partner . . . that fear is lurking in the back of your mind. You don't want to be watching your back in some desert and worrying about what's going on back home."

An army private can make about $2000 a week during a tour of duty in deadly war zones, such as Iraq and Afghanistan. During a six-month deployment in a war zone, a private can make more than $50,000 tax free.


Pls make note of the amounts that the Aussie lads actually get (and deserve)

Proving that the MoD has failed far short of going one better (as quoted by Def Sec)

[trap one]

At least I had the decency to wait until we were actually sausage-side before kerching-ing!
Was this pilot 'Axe' ?

Not his Nom De Guere at Waddo (he was B707 Tanker driver) but boy did he snore. The Kerchings were based on the fact that as soon as we were "wheels in wells" we logged time as "NATO mission" so therefore the $64 went in the bank. Shortest was a 10 minute followed by heavy weight land due to smoke n fumes. Follwed by a mass dismount aware from some V warm brakes.

[Ginseng]

No great detail as yet (it's still being worked out), but there was a limited release on the Defence Intranet today. They say the figure of £2,240 for 6 months was chosen to offset the tax liability of a Level 5 private soldier on his pay and allowances during his 6 months on ops. So, here goes:

Private Level 5 (High Band!) = £58.79 per day = £21,458 per year.

Personal Allowance for one year = £5,035

Next £2,150 of taxable income taxed at 10%: Tax = £215

£21,458-£5,035-£2,150 = £14,273: Tax at 22% = £3,140.06

One full year's tax = £215 + £3,140.06 = £3,355.06

Therefore 6 months tax = £1,677.53

But, add 6 months (182 days) LSSA, taxed at 22%:

It only comes close if you assume at least Level 3 LSSA (£12.82 per day, already completed 700+ qualifying days at start of op det:

182 * £12.82 = £2,333.84: tax at 22% = £513.31

Therefore total tax due on the op det = £1,677.53 + £513.31 = £2,190.84

Close - ish

Regards

Ginseng

[LFFC]

Labour 'betray' our soldiers by cutting their front line allowances.

By CHRISTOPHER LEAKE, Mail on Sunday (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=411861&in_page_id=1770)Last updated at 21:09pm on 21st October 2006.

But now a change in allowances when troops are separated from their families means those deployed on two six-month tours over two years will have their payments reduced from £6,679 before tax to £4,338, a loss of £2,341.

Can anyone confirm that this is true?

Insiders insisted it was a 'cock-up, not a conspiracy'

Why am I not surprised?

But the newly-named longer separated allowance being introduced by the MoD has resulted in a new bonus system that will reduce payments for the same duties over the same period to £4,338

JPA strikes again?

[Ginseng]

Ooops, I suspect the Mail on Sunday has caught a sever case of egg-on-face disease.

It is just possible that they have been given wind of some proposed change as part of the coming review of pay and allowances, but I think it's more likely to be this:

Under LSSA, a new recruit has to amass 100 pre-qualifying days, in lots of 10 or more, before receiving LSSA Level 1 from day 101. The current daily rates of LSSA are exactly the same as the previous low, medium and higher bands of the previous LSA. Each bad is 300 qualifying days wide, and LSSA, whilst introducing the pre-qualifying period, has extended the bands to include new higher bands 4 to 14 inclusive.

Let's take new recruit "Soldier A", who has never been away before for more than 10 days. For 2 6-month dets (say 366 days),he will receive LSSA at:
Days 1-100 = £0
Days 101-366 = Level 1 (£6:02 per day)= £1,931.32 (before tax).

Then take Soldier B, who has served longer and already spent 400 days away:
For the next 2 six-month dets he wil get LSSA at:
300 days at Band 2 (£12.18 per day)
66 days at Band 3 (18:34 per day).

Soldier C has already spent 700 days away. For the next 2 dets he gets:
300 days at Band 3 (£18:34 per day)
66 days at Band 4 (£24:50 per day), total over £6,500 before tax.

The difference between Soldier C and Soldier A is over £4,500 before tax, but then he has spent much longer away in long periods since joining.

Even though they may now be serving on the same dets, the principle of LSSA is that it compensates most those who suffer the longest cumulative separation.

I do hope the Editor of the MoS will tell his man to research things a bit more thoroughly.

Regards

Ginseng

[Melchett01]

Ginseng

Thanks for that - I was beginning to think that I had missed something whilst I was away on Planet Zarg (well away on exercise, but it may as well have been Zarg) for the past couple of weeks.

But are the amounts you mentioned for the various LSA bands correct? I recently came back from theatre and looking at my pay statements was only getting £9.41 or thereabouts for Level 2 LSA.

Furthermore, there are rumours floating around various elements of a not so top secret helicopter base that you have to do 2months away to qualify for the bonus.... handy for the Treasury if true when a lot of crews have been doing just 55-ish days away. Anybody have any info on what / when the criteria will be published?

[Ginseng]

You b*****d, you spotted my error!

LSSA Level 1 = £6:02: I got that bit right.
The increase is then £3 plus a bit, per day for each successive band, so:
Band 2 = £9 something
Band 3 = £12 plus 2 lots of something
Band 4 = £15 plus 3 lots of something etc
Band 14 is lots, but you have to accumulate 4,000 days to get there!

It obviously changes my sums a bit, but I still think this is likely to be the real cause of the MoS story.

I'll go and lie down again now!

Regards

Ginseng

[Ginseng]

OK, so to recap:

LSSA bands (approx) daily:

1 = 6.02
2 = 9.42
3 = 12.82
4 = 16.22
5 = 19.62
6 = 23.02

Soldier A will receive £1,931.31 before tax.
Soldier B: £5,116.52
Soldier C: £6,134.52

And a new Soldier D, who had 1000 qualifying days before these 2 dets would receive £7,405.31

Or thereabouts

I feel better now!

Regards

Ginseng

[Ginseng]

Soldier B gets £3,672.12
Soldier C gets the £5,116.52
Soldier D gets the £6,134.52
A new soldier E gets - well, more

My brain hurts

Ginseng

[Vage Rot]

Under LSSA, a new recruit has to amass 100 pre-qualifying days, in lots of 10 or more, before receiving LSSA Level 1 from day 101. The current daily rates of LSSA are exactly the same as the previous low, medium and higher bands of the previous LSA. Each bad is 300 qualifying days wide, and LSSA, whilst introducing the pre-qualifying period, has extended the bands to include new higher bands 4 to 14 inclusive.

......and when the bill gets too high, they will re-name the scheme again and reset us all to 100days to start on the low rate again!!!

Of course, I'm just a cynic!!:ugh:

[Ginseng]

Yes, you are a cynic. So, sometimes, am I, but no one takes a knock back on the transfer from LSA to LSSA. If you have already received LSA, then on transfer to LSSA you are given an extra 100 qualifying days, so that there is no risk of your dropping back a band. The band 1, 2 and 3 daily rates of LSSA are, as I said, exactly the same as the previous 3 rates of LSA.

As far as being a story with legs, this one has multiple compound fractures!

Regards

Ginseng