Type Rating - B757/B767

[hifive11]

I have been told that it is extremely difficult for a newly qualified (F) ATPL to gain their 757/767 type rating.

What are your views on this and how many have managed it?

I am not talking about the rights and wrongs of paying for a type rating, I just want to know the academic and flying abilities required and the chances of success in such an endeavour.

I await your replies with interest :confused:

[no sponsor]

Lots of BA cadets, and various other sponsored schemes have taken their low houred people through the 757/767 type rating. I can't see why it would be more difficult than a 737 or a A319/320.

But then I haven't done one either.

[M.85]

HI there,

I believe it depends on each individual skills ,I have been in a sim with a guy (200 hours) who did extremely well (navigation,systems,good handling) and been with one who tried to kill me so many times in the sim...
However if you intend to buy a type..make sure you be checked in a sim before paying for the course..also..with low hours, i really doubt youd be of any interest to airlines(unless you go through a special scheme..easyjet,ryan air,thomas cook)
I suggest you get a FI licence.but only you knows what you may do/ achieve ..not me.

All the best,

M.85

[Pilot Pete]

Buying of a type rating aside and answering the question posed directly........

As stated, plenty of pilots have flown the 757/767 as their first type. The passing of your first type rating on something bigger than a piston twin comes down to basic ability and an awful lot of hard work.

I would say that any twin jet of the 737/A320 size or larger is on the 'complex' side of the type rating fence and all will require large amounts of determination to pass. It was certainly the most difficult course that I did during the whole of my flying training, but equally the most enjoyable and rewarding, especially as someone was paying me to do it (novel concept I know!)

People do fail though and many need extra time, which equates to extra expense, hence why airlines try so hard to select pilots who they think will not only pass, but do so in as close to minimum time as is allowed.

Like I have already said, you have to have the basic ability to handle the workload (both technically and the sheer volume) and attitude is one of the biggest factors. If you start to struggle, make sure you seek your instructors help and put in the extra work to catch up. Usually the program is so intense there is little room for going over things again and again. In my experience though, even if someone is struggling with something, if they are showing the right attitude and trying their absolute hardest the trainers will do whatever they can to get you through, it's the people who let it get on top of them and start to sink making all the excuses in the world who eventually leave the instructors with little choice but to recommend their removal from the course.

I wish you well with whatever you choose.

PP

[downwind]

hifive11,

In my own opnion I think it is attitude that will really make you or break you on your first type rating on a turbo jet, but let me assure you that lots of low houred people have done and passed their first type rating with lots of hard work and determination.

A couple of things to note thought;

try to do a airline style cadetscheme, some airline to give you sponsership at the end (easy to say), more motivation for you to really do well in the course!

Pick more of a training oriented company rather than more of a straight airline sim centre; ie alteon ,gecat etc.... (I think more focused on producing a better quality product)

Have a very good grasp of ATPL systems stuff, b4 the course, helps to digest all the ground school stuff!!!!!!

Have a good working knowledge of a FMC/EFIS/MCP etc....

Try to use a CBT for ground training, very good, practice the normal, non normal switching on the CBT to see what the system does, and what the system will do!!!!!

Have a study guide, and allocate XX amounts of hours for each system; ie hydraulics 2 hrs etc....

For the sim;

Know your SOP's really well, so it leaves brain space to fly the sim/a/c well, not having to think "OH what call comes next"???!!!

Have a very good working idea of the non-normal non boxed sop's and the way to fly them in the box!

Mentally fly each sim season in your head before each session, or better yet try a pc style jet flight sim.

Keep positve in the sim, even if you do stuff up a exercise, just like a flight test erase the event from your memory (easy to say)

Know your body angles and power settings to really nail that sim, ie for a ILS S/E ILS, etc....

Don't try and over trim the sim, let it settle then use smooth small control inputs to correct the attitude

Try not to get to worried, the more you do the less brain space to fly a good sim session

Use your PNF if you really are getting bogged down

In a check/test, discuss options with other person good CRM, You both sink or swim in a test or pressure situation!!!

[rodquiman]

Hello

I did a MCC course (40 hours) in a B757 FFS, not the Type Rating.
We had to work hard during that days, but with less than 200 hours I thought it would be more difficult.

It is a great plane and if you know all the procedures and scanflows well, you will not have problem with the aircraft.
It weights and flies really fast but everybody can fly it.

From my point of view it was even easier to land than the PA28 in the Flight Club.

[BillieBob]

I did a MCC course (40 hours) in a B757 FFS, not the Type Rating. Interesting! The MCC course is 25 hours if modular, 20 hours if integrated and 10 hours if combined with a type rating. Why did you pay for 40 hours?

A complete B757 type rating, including MCC and B767 differences training, shouldn't take as much as 40 hours.

[scroggs]

The difficulties of such a course for a low-hour fATPL is really only because the course is usually designed for people who have some jet experience. Therefore quite a lot of knowlege is assumed of the student, both systems and handling. An organisation like BA or Britannia who regularly put low-houred pilots through heavy jet type ratings can afford to adapt the course to suit the needs of the inexperienced.

It's not that the aircraft is difficult, it's the structure and content of the course itself. As an extreme example, I could have taught you to fly from scratch on a B747. It would be bloody expensive, and take a long time, but it could be done. You would be no nearer to being an airline pilot than the guy who'd done it all on PA28s, though! In fact, my very first flying and first solo was done on a jet capable of 400kts+, so it really doesn't matter what the type is.

Scroggs

[PPRuNe Towers]

Both generally and historically the success rates are very high. Right attitude plus right training works.

Line training however is effectively doubled these days for first time jet and heavy turbo prop entrants. Again, right attitude and trainers pays real dividends here in building up awareness and judgement.

But this is more costly in terms of sheduling a finite number of trainers especially in a company with a high proportion of long sectors. It takes a lot of sectors and a lot of time to get you signed off on line.

I'm not aware of anyone ever stepping up to the plate and explaining this to wannabees. With new aircraft and training credits it is effectively far cheaper in terms of scarce company resources to type rate an experienced pilot who's flown a twenty tonne plus aircraft than to welcome you on board with your freshly purchased type rating in your moist little hand.

Search is on for the weekend and you're welcome to have a look at my posts. Lots of opinions and war stories around but you'll find I have never recommended buying a type rating - I've just explained the reason. If this isn't absolutely clear to you I'll be happy to explain point by point. There are no dumb questions in this business because we're talking about your money not mine:uhoh: :uhoh: :ok:

Regards from the Towers
Rob

[rodquiman]

BillieBob:

For me the MCC course was part of an integrated course for the ATPL, CPL, IR and all the package.

It´s the normal in the FTO I went. Well, I don´t know how much is the cost of the course at others TRTO but it´s offered here by 7500 euros and is a really good experience, excellent Instructors and good equipment.

If you are interested or want more info, just PM me.

Cheers.

[hifive11]

Thanks all of you for your professional, thoughtful and helpful responses to my question.

I am pleased that the post didn't go down the path that a great many of the other genuine posts for help seem to go, especially whilst the search facility is only available at certain times.

You have helped me with future possibilities and certainly given me food for thought.

:\

[piper pervert]

After much deliberation and many rejections i am considering taking the plunge and buying a TR. I have always aspired to fly the 757 so am now looking into buying a rating for one. But a couple of questions:

1. Would i be deemed foolish for choosing a 75 and fulfilling my dream instead of going with the flow and choosing 73/320?

2. How do you think potential employers would view a 757 rating with no hours on type? (I believe Jet2 are planning 75 fleet expansion for the future).

3. Could anyone recommend any JAR/CAA approved courses that they have come across?

I have already started looking seriously at this, but just thought it better to get as many opinions as poss.

Many Thanks

PP.

[747-436]

I would personally go for an Airbus rating, purely because so many Airlines have the airbus. And also the fact that some Airlines 757/767 fleets will be dwindling in the coming years. I am guessing you are from the UK?

Obviously these aircraft have to go somewhere so some Airlines will be expanding the 7576 fleets so there may well be a market for 757 rated people with those.

I am speaking from the persepctive of someone who works in the Airlines but not a pilot myself so see what others have to say as well.

[Mercenary Pilot]

The 757/767 rating is as good at the moment as any, there is currently a pilot shortage on this type. However, whether you will get a job doing medium/long haul without any jet time or any airline experience is another story.

Good luck :ok:

[CAP509castaway]

PP,
What experience do you have ?Why not try applying to Jet 2 they will take a variety of experience.
Feel free to Pm me :} :}

[Oxidant]

As with any SSTR, you need to have,(or should)
1. An employer with an offer if you have the rating, or
2. The rating & time on type.
So, at the moment, you have to think about the following.
Does the TRTO who is selling this rating have either a job for you, or will they provide a reasonable number of hours line training?
I have deliberately not mentioned any training providers, I leave you to ask them who, where & when the line flying is with & then make an educated punt!

(BTW, this is not meant to be aligned with any of the "jump the queue" or "don't pay" under any circumstances brigade, or any other rights or wrongs of "the system". Everyone has their own circumstances & at the end of the day it's a free world....etc, etc)

O

[piper pervert]

Hi CAP. Pls check your PMs.

Cheers

PP

[Just another student]

CAP please check your PM's.

Cheers

JAS

[RJELLISUK]

Maybe 75/76 not the way to go with the into of 78. Fedex are now going to snap up around 90 secondhand 757s for conversion so prob wont be to many left. Our largest 757 operators want line time, First choice, thomsonfly, Astreaus, flyjet, monarch!!!1 Jet2 may accept but their fleet size is just a small fish in a big pond.
With a320 their are loads of options. Easy wil take you with 50hrs on type. Also just look at the order books to see which way to go. its the best indication of whats to come!!!!
Hope you make your mind up soon,
Remember, dont take anything as set in stone that is said on here, its your career so its your decision, and its also your money so you have to be happy with what you decide to do. Im in the same sort of boat and will prob go down the a320 route but that is whats right 4 me. Just do what you want.

Hope i have said some sense!!!!

All the best!!!

[MrMutra]

So

Is there anyone who can recommend somewhere for the type rating and How much incl. base check etc ?

Cheers

:)

[Oxidant]

Try also Bond Aviation (Astraeus) at Gatwick & see what price you can get (At least you can also do line trg. with them out of LGW)

[underread east]

If you check the recent flight international survey, the largest european operator of the 75 is DHL/EAT - a combined fleet of 35...There are rumours of recruitment, but again would be looking for airline experience

[eyefly]

Hi chaps. Im thinking of taking the plunge and funding a 75' rating on the basis that vast majority of people seem to go the 73/320 route, and its what i've always wanted.

Just after any information and tips regarding TRTOs, and what the chances of a job at the end of it are in your opinions.

Am i just mad?

Any comments (good or bad) welcome.

Thanx

[CAP509castaway]

Don't bother with 75 it is an obsolete type with few operators.The vast majority go for 73/A320 for a good reason!Also don't self fund until you have tried Easy Jet2, T'fly, Ryanair, at least these guarantee you a job at he end of your TRTO.
Good luck!:} :} :}

[AlexL]

balls

I did a 757 rating recently (with a job guarantee at the end of it), but the TRTO also did self funded ratings. Everyone on my course has a job, as has most of the next course. There are 757 jobs around at the moment.
Go and have a look on ppjn.com and filter for 757, there are alot of operators around.
It is also a 767 rating and that is most definately not an 'obsolete type'.

Go for it, it is a lovely aircraft to fly.

[ARGREECE]

dear alexl,
congrats for your achievement to have a job and fly this beauty.i would be very much interested in that scheme if it is still available.i would like to contact you for more details if you dont mind.my address is [email protected] (http://[email protected]).
thank you in advance,happy easter and all the best with yr career goals

[eyefly]

AlexL
If poss cld u pls forward me any relevant details on either the cousre that you took, or the equivalent self-funded version.

Any advice really appreciated!

Cheers.:ok:

eyefly

[kuchemann carrots]

Alex,
Sorry to be a pain, but if you could copy and paste the info on the course that you sent to the other guys and forward it to myself, I would be very grateful.
Cheers
KC:ok:

[3bars]

I'm seriously considering doing a B757 type rating with bond in Gatwick. Anyone got any experience of them? Thanks

[piper pervert]

Does anyone know if ctc are still a 757 trto, and if so do they take self-funded individuals?

Any suggestions regarding other 75 trtos (preferably uk but not essential) would be v welcome

Brgrds