Importing aircraft from US

[Arrestahook]

Has anyone imported a light aircraft from the States? With the current exchange rate a/c out there are seemingly cheap as chips but.....?

Presumably there is 17.5% VAT to pay on the purchase value to Gordon when it hits our shores? Is there any way round this? If one could prove that the aircraft was bought by a business for business use, could the tax be claimed back?
What kind of export paperwork is required and is it difficult to get hold of?
Is it a costly process getting an N registered aircraft of the Uk register?
What are your thoughts?

[flyingfemme]

Done it many times, for many different people. I don't have anything to do with the CAA any more - keep it on the N. There is a legal way round the VAT but it's not free....If you want info on the "Danish thing" I can put you in touch with somebody reliable who does it (he's a lawyer and aircraft owner/pilot).
The cost of the ferry etc can be disproportionate when buying something small/cheap. If you are after a good, performance single then it's generally well worth the effort.
Gill (FF)
http://www.aerodynamics.co.uk

[tangovictor]

there is an interesting article in one of the flying mags, last month I think, a guy, brought a new diamond I believe, for biz use, after a year he had to sell it, as the tax people dug deep, and proved it wasn't a genuine biz related item, might be worth a read, I would have sent it to you, but I don't keep mags etc after reading any longer !

[pumper_bob]

Fly it over and get a run with the ferry pilot its a blast you will never ever forget. If you are going to do anything in aviation, do a ferry flight.
Try atlantic bridge for a competitive(cheap)quote!!!!!

[nouseforaname]

'Danish Thing' works very well I have done it twice in the last 12months. Both aircraft have been to France and French Customs have been satisfied with the aircraft being in free circulation in the EU.

[SkyHawk-N]

'Danish Thing' works very well I have done it twice in the last 12months. Both aircraft have been to France and French Customs have been satisfied with the aircraft being in free circulation in the EU.

I did the 'Danish Thing' as well and probably used the same reliable guy/company. Importing this way works out around 50% cheaper than other options.

[SkyHawk-N]

Ferry flights are expensive for little uns, it's often better to take the wings off and freight them, but you need engineers at both ends.


I worked out (I think that it is also a known fact) it was cheaper and more straight forward to get a Cessna 172 flown over. There is also a greater risk of damage when crating an aircraft. However, C150, etc cannot be flown over and have to be crated.

[Julian]

Skyhawk,

What quotes were you given to ferry a 172 over?
A mate of mine imports cars via sea containers and think he pays about £800 per container.

J.

[mm_flynn]

I think a significant part of the cost when using a container is the engineering work of removing/packing and replacing the wings. The simpler the aircraft, the easier this is likely to be.

Also, costs to consider are - the US aircraft probably doesn't have FM immune avionics, the altimeter is inches, IFR machines are likely not to have DME or ADF (because they use the GPS). If you are going to place it on the G-Reg, there may be SB's or manufacturer recommened service items that have not been completed - as these are optional for aircraft not used for public transport in the US.

I did it and enjoyed the vast majority of the experience and have the aircraft I wanted, but it didn't work out that much cheaper than a roughly compatable European aircraft. The key for me was choice - about 200 in the US which broadly met my requirements vs. 3 in Europe.

The 'Danish Thing' works, but if you are organising your own Ferry Pilot make sure you, the agent, and the pilot are crystal clear about the route your are flying and the process. UK Customs objects to the concept and will be checking that the process has been done correctly when you fly in from Denmark.

[SkyHawk-N]

Skyhawk,
What quotes were you given to ferry a 172 over?
A mate of mine imports cars via sea containers and think he pays about £800 per container.
J.

I think £1200 for the container springs to mind. There is also the delivery to and from the ports, which may or may not be included. The cost of crating/padding the parts to stop them rattling around in the containiner. I think there is also the logistics of getting the aircraft out of the container which is on the back of a lorry (ramp, crane, etc).

The disassembly, reassembly and inspection/authorization will also cost quite a bit.

[Arrestahook]

Interesting thanks guys, particularly cjboy and mm flynn.

I better give you some more info to see whether its worth me doing. I am looking at Pitts Specials in the states, namely factory built S2s, so I could get it on a public transport C of A over here. The business concerned is a flying school and the aircraft would be used for aeros training, so you think there is a chance of getting a tax rebate?
Getting it back is not a problem as I have an engineer who can come with me to take it apart put it in a container and then stick it in the hold of my week day steed and ship it back for free. Flying to Floida a lot at the moment.

£8K to put it on the UK register cjboy? Christ. Any more suggestions folks?

[mm_flynn]

I would have thought that a factory built aircraft, still in compliance with its type certificate (i.e. no mods) and used for public transport in the US (hence complying with SB's and manufacturers recommended servicing) with no IFR avionics issues should be pretty reasonable to put on the G. Your logic for buying in the States is probably sound as there can't be very many factory built S2s for sale in Europe. However, I would definitely have a formal conversation with the CAA and your proposed inspection organisation to establish just what they will be looking for to move onto the G. The opinions on PPRune or interesting but risk being worth what you pay for them.

The Danish thing people talk about is for private use - if you are using the aircraft in a real VAT registered business it shouldn't be relevant as you should be able to claim back input VAT just like any other element of cost in the business.

I would have thought that ferrying a Pitts would be somewhere between unbelievably expensive/painful and impossible.

[SkyHawk-N]

Arrestahook. You COULD have mentioned you have someone who would take the aircraft apart, put it back together, that you had transport of the crate for free and that you know the exact aircraft type you are after! Have you left out any other snippets of information? :}

[Arrestahook]

My favourite colour is blue and my mum keeps chickens.

[flyingfemme]

I would have thought that ferrying a Pitts would be somewhere between unbelievably expensive/painful and impossible.
Yep. Wouldn't do it.....and I have a Pitts pilot on the team.

[stiknruda]

Aresti-hoo-hah

I never knew your mum had chooks! Must have been fun growing up with all those girls:E :E :E

[IO540]

I've never done the Danish thing but have spoken to a few tax specialists about it. Their input was that the plane must not be in the EU already. If importing from the USA, it must go into Denmark first. Otherwise, UK Revenue/Customs could challenge the VAT saving.

But I could be wrong; I am not sure how this works with EU-made planes, e.g. Socata. Do they ship them to some place outside the EU first? Jersey would be an obvious place.

To someone who wishes to import an IFR tourer, I would agree to keep it on the N-reg. You can fly it in the UK on a UK PPL, worldwide on an FAA piggyback PPL, and worldwide IFR on an FAA IR.

I would not import anything without having substantial information on the aircraft. I moved a plane from G to N a few years ago; it was originally made for the US market, even had an N number on the side, and I had all the FAA docs, but it still cost a good few grand to move it to N. Moving it back to G would cost a few grand again, but that figure could double or treble if it had the "wrong" equipment fitted. CAA inspectors can be incredibly anally retentive, sticking INOP stickers on the prop de-ice switch (because they don't approve of prop de-icing) and sticking EXIT stickers on the doors :yuk:

[Arrestahook]

It seems that a Pitts wouldn't be too onerous to convert to G reg, as there isn't too much to do, change altimeters in inches etc. £3-4K. Role on next LGW-SFB. stiknruda you motherclucker!