Everyone to Bristol & Bath!!!!

[GasFitter]

With this announcement, there's going to be a great deal of turbulence for the Civil Service and Servicemen alike. People may decide not to go, leaving a skills and experience shortage in support of all 3 Services aircraft. Front Line may suffer! Thoughts .. anyone?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5392694.stm

[Melchett01]

Armed Forces Minister Adam Ingram said he understood the effect the relocation would have on defence staff.

"The decision I have taken is in the best interests of defence as a whole.



A first for all concerned

[BEagle]

I hope the whole thing blows up in MoD's face. And not before time either....

Assuming that you can just push the now-contractorised workforce around to save yourself money - without sufficient discussion with the employees or their collective bargaining bodies - is a Victorian mill owner's approach to industrial relations.

[ZH875]

They are going to have a 'Work to Rule'.....


...That's great news, they might actually do something each day.:ok:

[PompeySailor]

I hope the whole thing blows up in MoD's face. And not before time either....

Assuming that you can just push the now-contractorised workforce around to save yourself money - without sufficient discussion with the employees or their collective bargainiing bodies - is a Victorian mill owner's approach to industrial relations.

It won't blow up though, not unless the unions manage to galvanise the whole workforce to stop this. When the TLB mergers took place in Portsmouth, and job cuts were announced, the unions tried peaceful picketing and a rally - about 25 people turned up, the rest just kept their heads down and carried on at work - then lost their jobs in the shakeup. The drop in morale was incredible, you could feel the loss of goodwill, you could see the shoulders drop. And now we lurch towards transformation and more job cuts, and people just assume it won't be them that gets "redeployed".

The Civil Service have had a charmed life for a long time, granted, but allowing a Government to move huge amounts of jobs into marginal-vote areas is not the way ahead! Where next - Gordon Brown's backyard because he's not looking good to return his deposit?

[GasFitter]

I must admit, if the Civil Service get their teeth into this one and make a stand, I believe that they could make things very, very difficult indeed in support of the front-line. Particularly, as there as been alot of civilianization of Service posts to reduce the wage bill and give continuity - the very thing that will be lost with this re-organization. However, in my experience, they don't have the passion for a fight and will just 'go with the flow' and get done over!

[BEagle]

The only reason they'll 'go with the flow' is that they feel committed to support the front line!

Whether they'll go along with Ingram and the Bliarite cronies is a different matter. The MoD has been starved of cash by that miserable, grouchy porridge-wog Brown (heaven forbid he ever takes over from Trust-me-Tone) - and if the MoD civil serpents are prepared to take a stand, then jolly good luck to them!

[BossEyed]

...and if the MoD civil serpents are prepared to take a stand, then jolly good luck to them!
Blimey, have I turned up in a parallel dimension?
This is the BEagle, is it? :D

[GasFitter]

The only reason they'll 'go with the flow' is that they feel committed to support the front line!
Whether they'll go along with Ingram and the Bliarite cronies is a different matter. The MoD has been starved of cash by that miserable, grouchy porridge-wog Brown (heaven forbid he ever takes over from Trust-me-Tone) - and if the MoD civil serpents are prepared to take a stand, then jolly good luck to them!

As long as it fits in with the 'Flexi'!:rolleyes:

[tucumseh]

One only has to look at what happened in 95/96 during and after the move from London to Abbey Wood. Same platitudes from politicians, military and senior civil servants alike. In the best interests of all concerned etc…… Families uprooted, spouses losing their jobs and unable to find another in Bristol, no local schools for kids, education disrupted, and so on. And not a hint of any help from MoD.

Work was secondary for many, many months, compounded by CDP announcing he wanted rid of 500 technical project management staff that had just moved from London, as he did not foresee needing their likes. His vision was a MoD(PE) run by administrators – a notion that is only now being challenged at the highest level.

The reason MoD don’t challenge posts like this is because he put it in writing, to the whole of ABW, in much more dismissive language than I’m using. Well, that made us feel wanted. The upshot? MoD now have to spend £100Ms each year on consultants, many of whom are doing jobs beneath the basic competences required of the most junior grade at ABW.

A little story which sums their attitude up. On 18.1.96, DG(Fin) was challenged about the lack of transport infrastructure to ABW, and the need for car parking for those who inevitably had to take their car. “ABW is being built by 3000 Irish navvies. They don’t have a problem, so why should 6000 civil servants”. Well mate, I’d rather have any one of those navvies than 10 of you.

[FJJP]

...or when they moved from Harrogate to Wyton.

One of the barmaids at the local pub was a civil servant by day, responsible for support of some engine type or other. She was local Cambridgeshire born and bred and got the job because not enough people moved from Harrogate. She candidly admitted that she really hadn't a clue what the aircraft looked like, did or what ops it was engaged in. AND she was picking things up as she went along, making loads of big mistakes along the way.

Great support arm, huh?

[GlosMikeP]

One only has to look at what happened in 95/96 during and after the move from London to Abbey Wood. Same platitudes from politicians, military and senior civil servants alike. In the best interests of all concerned etc…… Families uprooted, spouses losing their jobs and unable to find another in Bristol, no local schools for kids, education disrupted, and so on. And not a hint of any help from MoD.

Work was secondary for many, many months...

Exactly the same happened with the merging and moving during consolidation of the non-nuclear defence research establishments.

People resigned rather than move, and it was welcomed that they did. Not because they were no good, but because they didn't get redundancy cheques.

Call me cynical if you will, but it's just another ploy to get rid of people without paying them redundancy.

[tucumseh]

FJJP

Agreed. The main issue with Harrogate to Wyton was that the majority were relatively junior staff (AA/AO) who did not have a mobility obligation. That is, anyone at EO (E1) and above can be posted at the drop of a hat in the same way Servicemen are. The main difference is that, if they don’t turn up at their new station they are deemed to have resigned, they are not AWOL. Nor do they benefit from the generally excellent family support facilities afforded to Servicemen. I’m not sure this civilian mobility obligation is widely known among Service personnel.


And Mike, you are spot on about

“it's just another ploy to get rid of people without paying them redundancy”.

I spent the last week of my time in London trying to find a job for one of our AOs. His bosses had given him a poor report in the hope he would be unattractive to prospective MoD employers, and resign. Personnel actually threatened to give him a chair and make him sit in a corner in their office until he gave up and resigned. An Admiral in Lacon took him on 30mins before we left on the last day. One of my better days.

[Autorev]

Those that have had they pleasure of travelling to Abbey Wood will know that the current infrastructure is barely able to cope with the current loads placed upon it.
To put even more strain on it without supply radical altrnatives is just untenable.
I for one, am glad that when this all happens, I will no longer be required to travel there. I pity the poor buggers that will have to though....

[GlosMikeP]

And Mike, you are spot on about

“it's just another ploy to get rid of people without paying them redundancy”.

.....bosses had given him a poor report in the hope he would be unattractive to prospective MoD employers, and resign. Personnel actually threatened to give him a chair and make him sit in a corner in their office until he gave up and resigned.....

Shameful. If it happens again this time, it will be interesting to see if anyone manages successfully to claim constructive dismissal. Or even to, as from tomorrow, claim age discrimination.

The trouble is, it's never the ones you want (and perhaps, need) to leave who do. So the service goes down, not up - and doesn't necessarily achieve the savings sought and expected. On the contrary.

[Krystal n chips]

...or when they moved from Harrogate to Wyton.

One of the barmaids at the local pub was a civil servant by day, responsible for support of some engine type or other. She was local Cambridgeshire born and bred and got the job because not enough people moved from Harrogate. She candidly admitted that she really hadn't a clue what the aircraft looked like, did or what ops it was engaged in. AND she was picking things up as she went along, making loads of big mistakes along the way.

Great support arm, huh?

You couldn't make it up if you tried !. :{ I applied for a post at Wyton given that I have some experience--so to speak-- on a type / airframe and engine---as did my mate who had a very detailed knowledge of the engine. Both ex mil, both of us thought this could be an interesting job---got a lovely letter saying " The paper sifting team have now completed their sifting excercise" :confused: and no thanks. Fine, with hindsight and from what I have heard / read, I am not sure how long I would have lasted given that my objectives would have been to actively support the platform / operators and I'm useless at office and internal politics--and have never been a 9-4.30 person anyway---not very long I would have guessed. Hence the above really takes the p££s out of the so called selection process.

[GlosMikeP]

You couldn't make it up if you tried !. :{ I applied for a post at Wyton given that I have some experience--..... Fine, with hindsight and from what I have heard / read, I am not sure how long I would have lasted given that my objectives ......Hence the above really takes the p££s out of the so called selection process.
Lucky escape, huh?;)

[tucumseh]

Krystal

" The paper sifting team have now completed their sifting excercise" and no thanks.


The reason is simple. They didn't want anyone with more experience working under them to show them up. ABW is full of them, increasingly IPTLs/senior staffs. The term used is "you are tainted by experience". The "sift" (carried out by Personnel and someone senior to the potential recruit's line manager) once rejected a raft of suitable civvy/ex-Service engineers to be my trials manager on a new helo. I was told to interview one guy, with my (non-technical) line manager present. I was informed this guy was the most suitable (and only) candidate, as his c.v. said he'd spent 1994 working for our Directorate in London. I was only allowed to see his c.v. as we entered the interview room. The post he described doing in 1994 was the one I held at the time! He'd been a graduate on 2 weeks work experience, but had only actually made it to St Giles for two days due to BR and tube strikes! He recognised me, got up and walked out, and I recruited someone who actually knew the difference between a transisitor and a transvestite. Look at it this way - your rejection was a compliment to your breadth of knowledge and experience. Their loss.

[Krystal n chips]

tucumseh
My thanks for that overview:ok: I am sure my mate will be equally "impressed" with their concept of recruitment.

Makes you wonder how effective they could be ( flight of fancy here of course ) with people who understand the work / platforms and requirements---and how many others have suffered the same "rejection" notice.

Like I said, I suspect my tenure in the post would have been er, short!. Shame as it was a very interesting role--or could have been anyway.

[GasFitter]

Latest news .. will this make any difference?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/5394926.stm

[Tilt&Gain]

£200M over 25 years? When I went to school that worked out as £8M per year. More than that must be wasted each year paying all of the new accountants they have had to employ to cope with the JPA allowances system. At least, if they're all in the same place we'll know where to call!

Seriously though, is it worth the upheavel for £8M a year?

[goatmanni]

A friend of mine from Wyton is over the moon with this decision because of the handsome relocation package available for the civil serpents and the fact that he left Abbey Wood only 2 years ago. The CS must buy his house and fund the differnece for a similar house down there (quids in me thinks). We Service boys and girls don't get that sort of package - funny that!:mad:

[GlosMikeP]

If he gets the difference paid, I'll bet he'll also get a serious tax bill for it as a 'benefit'!

In looking at the perceived difference between being a Serviceman and a civil servant on the move, don't forget there is no entitlement to MQs for the cs. Not as good as it might first look.

Personally, I'd take the hint my services aren't wanted by MOD and find something better to do. The only attraction of the cs is the pension...similar to the Services in that respect. Move on is my advice to those caught up in this nonsense.

[tucumseh]

“The CS must buy his house and fund the difference for a similar house down there (quids in me thinks)”.


Not quite true. What used to be called “Excess Rent Allowance” contributed in a very small way to the extra expense incurred if the “average” house price at the new station exceeded that at the old. This average was determined by MoD. I didn’t get it moving from London to Bristol as Bristol had a lower average price. However, the “average” in Bristol encompassed places like St Pauls, where one needs a tailgunner to drive home at night and body armour the rest of the time, and houses cost zilch. An equivalent house cost more and my mortgage doubled. MoD employ an agency to buy your house, if you so choose. However, the sudden glut of property for sale will depress prices. I lost £35k on the deal (in 95), plus the wife’s income as she couldn’t find a job for a year.

[the funky munky]

Funny that the BBC are quoting that Yeovilton will move. Yeovilton was dropped from the move to the South West primarily becasuse it's in the South West about an hours drive from HQ DLO!.:ugh:

The DLO internal comms messages have now dropped VL from the list of sites to move.

Our IPTL has been quoted as saying that all VL based IPTs and DG Rotary Wing "pushed back the proposal" as most VL based teams interact more with Wastelands and frontline commands than the useless people in Bristle. By push back he meant told the consultant to poke off.:ok:

£8M a year savings seems hardly worth it as we will probably spend more on relocation costs, oh sorry different budget.
You just couldn't make up the goings on sometimes and it all stems from another Jockineese SofS, and this one a lawyer who used to be "something" in the Treasury i.e he has a Brown neck!.:mad: