London Battersea **!!&***!!!

[headsethair]

In a letter to customers this week, Weston Aviation have substantially upped their landing fees from October 1. (Current figures in brackets)

Grp 1-3 is £210 (£90), 4 £305 (£275), 5 £330 (£300), 6 £500 (£450), 7 £690 (£625) and 8 £1200! (£1075).

(That 1-3 increase of over 100% looks like a "push off, light helis" fee)

The reasons they give are that they need to restrict movements because they may have to close until the end of the year - they are getting close to exceeding the annual limit.

This is one of the world's leading capital cities and our heliport is being managed worse than a small GA airfield.

"This year has seen a substantial increase in movements......" - well why didn't you manage it by turning away all the early and late movements ? That way you wouldn't be sitting on a pile of noise and smell complaints from residents. And the Mayor/GLA might have viewed your attempts as mitigation in the current noise enquiry.

[FloaterNorthWest]

Maybe they should do a 'car share' scheme were you have to go in with more than one passenger! :}

FNW

[SASless]

Ain't life great for Aviation in the UK?

[[email protected]]

Unfortunately Red Ken is not a big fan of helicopters - he took great pleasure in denying Al Fayed a site on top of Harrods. Maybe his socialist/communist roots prevent him from seeing helicopters as anything other than 'fat cats' toys.

[ppheli]

FNW - they won't limit earlys and lates because they make too much extra dosh on those, thanks to Mr Harrods and Mr Chelsea etc

[Head Turner]

Here is fantastic opportunity for a revamp of the whole London heliport scene.

Red Ken and the residents don't use helicopters so why should they be subjected to the inconveniences associated with the heliport.

Scrap it. Build a modern high speed rail link(shouldn't take long) from a heliport on the outskirts or where the Millenium Dome is. Simple idea. Should be ready by the next Olympics.

[helicopter-redeye]

Do you mean Beijing ?

[FloaterNorthWest]

Head Turner,

You expect the people who fly into Battersea to get on the train? Non starter I am afraid.

ppheli,

Didn't mention limiting earlys and lates (We're in enough at that time, especially very late and pay the price), my comment was tongue firmly in cheek.

If London wants to be the financial capital of the UK and have all these large companies operate out of it, how do they expect the executives to arrive? The road system is a shambles, as is the tube. Time is money to these people.

I don't think it will be long before the current owners build on the site. The latest work proves that land is valuable and thay are a building firm at the end of the day.

FNW

[headsethair]

Here's what I don't understand:

I was on the first ever flight to land at LCY - before it got licensed. At that stage the planning requirement forbade anything other than prop fixed wing. Within a few years of opening, EGLC was accepting "whispering" jets - proving that planning is moveable.

But you still can't land a heli there - even if you're the Met. (Although Dennis Kenyon was allowed in during one Saturday "closed" period to do a display - but that was at the annual City community air day.)

The management of EGLC were recently quoted as saying they would like to manage a new heliport for London somewhere near their field, but not ON their field.

Why not ? They are about to accept Airbus FW - which must be noisier than most light helis. So why not create a "light" heliport at City for nothing bigger than Group 3 helis ? A perfect hub integrating with the scheduled fixed wing services. There's plenty of space........

[Three Blades]

Is Battersea really the right place for a heliport ?
Land value aside, do execs really want to arrive in an area where there is no public transport and badly blocked roads ?
If we assume that many of them are financial types then something with links to the City and Canary Wharf would be much better (Dome, Vanguard, LCY ?)
I am sure that the current owners of the local football clubs (Fulham & Chelsea) will hold the opposite view !
I cannot see Battersea lasting much longer.

[Xavier Dosh]

Three Blades,

Why would Battersea not last much longer??

XD

[Three Blades]

Xavier,
No specific reason.
Just the assumption that a combination of rising land value and rising nimbyism from the ever encroaching neighbours will eventually spell the end.
I very much hope to be wrong.
TB

[Xavier Dosh]

I hope so too!

Clearly a Heliport to the east of London would be very beneficial. But until such time as there is an alternative, I think we would be better to support Battersea.

the location of the heliport is not ideal, but all of the staff work very hard to ensure you're looked after.

I don't have an issue with them increasing their rates - it's the short notice that I felt was slight unfair. We received our letter yesterday informing us of an increase from 1 October.

I blame the government!! ;)

[Glenn Curtis]

Whilst I can see the situation that Battersea finds itself in and (as an Operator) we have acceped that they probably do not have a lot of choice but to increase the fees in an attempt to limit movements. Based on the information that they have given, two things concern me.

1). We have 2 Battersea movements booked next week for a very simple Charter Flight, these were booked some three weeks ago, the quote was given to the client, the client paid in advance. Battersea has given us 3 days notice of the increase, we phoned and asked if they would honour the booking at the old price as this was a firm quote booked and paid for, we were told point blank NO. Basically the attitude is take it leave it we dont care.

2). Again I understand the reason behind this move, but what has not been said is when the annual quota runs From & To, I presume from the wording of the notice it is Jan 1st to Dec 31st. My Question: Will the fees go back down to the previous level when the New Year starts or are they now here to stay.

Whatever the case we are stuck with this as Weston Aviation have us by the Go-Nads, but I do feel that they are being very inconsiderate to the Helicopter Industry in general by not at least honouring bookings already made.

All that said I do have to say that I have always found both the Staff and Management at Battersea very helpful and understanding and it is a shame that this action could cause so much bad feeling, had they honoured our movemets for next week at the Booked Price then I would not have had a problem with this but basically they have just taken £160.00 off my Charter, thats the profit gone if not more and with no leeway whatsoever.

[Glenn Curtis]

Further to my previous post I have just recieved a call from Battersea, they have reconsidered the situation and agreed to honour the slots booked before the announcement of the price increase, I did say they were normally helpful and understanding and I think this proves the case. Thank You Alan.

[Hilico]

Headsethair, the reason LCY started taking jets was because the bloke who owned it bought a jet. Let's hope he buys a heli because if he does, rotaries will be allowed there within months of the purchase.

[EESDL]

Headsethair
My records show that Gp 3 landing fee was £190
You've indicated by your rant that it was only £90
Personally, I can't see that an increase of £20 (Gp 3 now £210) is going to restrict movements to any degree which Red Ken will be happy with..........

Londoners, BHAB, etc etc - What a crazy situation the helicopter industry finds itself in.
It's bad enough that the major cities of UK (Cardiff & Newcastle exempt) do not have a heliport of choice - but for London to be in such a poor situation beggars belief.

How/why did it happen in the first place?
Are we just playing at this rotary thing?

[scooter boy]

I agree with the sentiments expressed above.

Battersea is staffed by very helpful people who do their best but is prohibitively expensive for the average private operator (like me) and in a very poor location with no transport links.

London is ripe for the develpoment of a new location that is fairly central but more importantly has great transport infrastructure. Location is a secondary consideration to connectivity.

I wouldn't mind paying the charges at Battersea if landing there ever got me within 30 mins of my destination, but the idea of paying those parking charges for time spent sitting in a taxi!

Let's hope more options open up in the future,

SB

[Head Turner]

So I have been shot down in flames. I am however flameproof.

The Olympics I was refering to were the Olympics which might be held after the forthcoming one....30 years time maybe!

The location of Battersea is wrong for the purpose and as I say again a heliport elsewhere (Dome) with a high speed rail link into the city would suffice. Those who decry getting into a train are very blinkered because your pasengers get into smelly taxis to take a slow smelly journey into the city. I for one would prefer a traffic free journey with a defined departure and arrival time.

The ball is on your side of the court now.

[helicopter-redeye]

The (London) ODA are the people to talk to as construction contracts are being let at the present time.

They might have it mind already, or maybe not.

Who, or which body, would represent the helicopter fraternity to the ODA and make the proposition for a future London Heliport for the 21st Century?

h-r;)

[airborne_artist]

LCY is soon to be sold (Telegraph report, 18/09 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/09/19/cncity19.xml)) so perhaps the new owners will look at additional ways of getting a return on the suggested £300m+ sale tag.

[rotorspeed]

Head Turner

Whilst Battersea is far from ideally located - it is there. Depending on traffic of course it is 20 - 30mins from the West End. It is very slick to land at and critically takes less than a minute from leaving the heli to getting in a car and departing. Normally to the door of your destination. And if you do have to wait, there's a nice lounge - usually to yourself.

Now compare that with the reality of your high speed rail link. How long will it take you to actually get on the train from the heliport? How private will the train be (assuming there's a signal at all) for the inevitable calls? And how far from your destination will it take you? And how will you travel the last leg?

I could go on. Battersea is vey expensive but at the end of the day it's a market economy. If they really are close to the planning movement limit who can blame them for upping fees? The only logical business approach.

The danger, I feel, is if they overcook it, and movements go down below the limits, public and the Council could say there is diminishing necessity and push movement limits down further. It is important to continue to prove how crucial it is for London to have a heliport by maintaining volume - and pushing for more.

If I owned Batteresa heliport and was motivated to safeguard and develop its future as a heliport, I'd be looking very hard at working up proposals to increase movements by introducing an element of recognition of the noise emission for various types. I should think one S76 is about as disturbing as four EC135s for example. To an extent this occurs with the fee scale but that doesn't help get more landings.

It would be interesting to know exactly what Battersea's annual movement limits actually are - any offers?

[headsethair]

It would be interesting to know exactly what Battersea's annual movement limits actually are - any offers?

12,000. Plus some wierd "grandfathering" exemptions left over from the Westland days : all Farnborough Airshow movements are exempt.

[ShyTorque]

So I have been shot down in flames. I am however flameproof.
The Olympics I was refering to were the Olympics which might be held after the forthcoming one....30 years time maybe!
The location of Battersea is wrong for the purpose and as I say again a heliport elsewhere (Dome) with a high speed rail link into the city would suffice. Those who decry getting into a train are very blinkered because your pasengers get into smelly taxis to take a slow smelly journey into the city. I for one would prefer a traffic free journey with a defined departure and arrival time.
The ball is on your side of the court now.

Smelly taxis? Not my passengers, most of them have their own limo waiting on arrival.... :p

[Helipolarbear]

Hilico....the 'Bloke' is a Paddy from Cork Known as Dermoh!! And He doesn't have a heli, especially when all his mates...the rich ones, let him urilize theirs!
Besides he bought LCY for £14.5 mill 12 to 14 years ago and is on the verge of selling for £500 mill in the coming weeks!!!!!! God Bless the Irish!:D

[Trying Hard]

I understand that Damyns Hall Landing site is nearly open for arrivals - suitable for the east of London, Canary Wharf and the City apparently. Not sure of the costs tho'

[AlanM]

..........and an ATZ only open from Thurs-Sunday (why?? Are they not open every day??)

[Twiddle]

'cos it's Essex, innit.

Monday - bank job.
Tuesday - eat whelks and eels.
Wednesday - feel ill from Tuesday.

[Barnaby the Bear]

It doe's seem a bit odd not having an ATZ all week. :}

[pistongone]

Admitedly it was back in 2001, but when i was working as a motorcycle chauffer i did a lot of work for Deutsche Bank. The Boss used to fly his Gazzelle i think it was, into Vanguard on Westferry Road E14 and i would be waiting for him on my Honda ST1100, same as the police use. Into London Wall took about 15mins. So i have 2 questions,
1) Why hasn't anyone developed that site?
2) Has anyone used Chauffer Bikes?
If not why not. We take all the rich and famous any where they need to be. I even had to take an ITN man from London to just north of Doncaster when there was a train crash. Also did a lot in and out of Battersea with the ITN chopper running tapes and people.
So if your interested pm me for the link.
Also whatever happened to the barge on the thames by southwark bridge?
Just remembered seeing what looked like a twin squirell landing on top of the Diamond centre in Charterhouse ST EC1!
Any one know how that was allowed and why has it not devloped?

[HS125]

I must say this is typical of the UK and I despair over the state of my country. Principally I am of the view that this problem shouldnt exsist in the first place, the attitude of local and national government beggars belief.

Many clients of the London - New York Concorde service used it because it was the only facility that enabled them to conduct their business, not because of some frivolous desire to be the fastest. We must therefore assume that an individual or organisation who has gone to the vast expense of buying a Helicopter to get into London has done so having evaluated the decision and has not blown millions of dollars for a laugh. It would be crass of us not to realise this and I fear that those of us who reject the idea may have a rather short career in this industry! It therefore stands to reason that operators will swallow the charges, and pass it on to their customers in the products and services that they sell. After all you dont actually do less driving when the pump prices go up after every budget under some shady tree hugging guise, in the same way you wouldnt drive 10 times further if the theiving tax went away (in our dreams)... Ladies and Gentlemen welcome to Rip-off Britain.

I agree that there are sensibilities in the argument for restricted daily movements over increased charges but at the end of the day the fact remains, The facilities for Helicopters in our capital are inadequate; Therefore businesses based in the capital are disadvantaged as is the country as a whole on a world scale. Meanwhile our poloticians are looking at weather or not they can make the situation any worse. W:mad: s!

[verticalhold]

HS125;

Don't forget the politics of envy. "I can't afford a chopper therefore why should he have one?" Or the politics of stupidity I bought my multi-million pound apartment right next door to one of the worlds' busiest and oldest heli-ports. Now I am going to complain like f:mad: about the noise and get it shut down." How terribly New Labour.

One of the most sickening sights around at the moment is the Mayor of Londons' ad on ITV London most nights exhorting people to get on their bikes, most of it was shot from a helicopter.

In Britain we no longer reward merit, we penalise it. To be able to afford a helicopter means one must have achieved a high level of success. That level of success comes with a huge personal price in terms of commitment to work and to other people (I'm thinking about employees here) Anybody in our business can show you that at a certain point helicopter travel actually becomes economical. At that stage the helo is not a frivolous plaything but a vital business tool.

I like Battersea, the staff are great, and I always enjoy my trips there (normally 3-6 a week) In certain wind conditions it can be a bit lively, but it is like a second home in some ways. However it is well past its' sell by date in terms of size and location. Let Ken shut it if he dares, we will just make a huge fuss for a better location. Lets face it some of our customers have huge political and financial clout, They have fought for their success he is a here today gone tomorrow politician. If he wants London to be a great capital city then he has to start thinking about facilities for business, not trying to get another 3 people off busses and onto bikes.

VH

[chevvron]

You can't expect a mayor who refuses planning permission for a de-salination plant to solve the water crisis to actually support helicopters, after all he is living in the 19th century isn't he.

[pistongone]

I would have thought you couldnt get much more successfull in business than Mr Al-Fayed, and he cant even get a Passport:ugh: . So i wouldnt rely too much on the political clout of the business men using the facillity to further the cause:( ! What is the situation with Vanguard? Is it like a private strip and 28 days or something? I would have thought Canary Wharf would be in need of Heliport if anywhere was:confused: