Pilots who went on strike let go by PHI

[rjsquirrel]

Pilots who went on strike let go by PHI

02:33 PM CDT on Thursday, September 21, 2006

By Jason Whitely / 11 News

http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou060921_ac_phipilots.22738f9.html

Jason Whitely's Sept. 20 11 News Report

PHI sent letters to several hundred of its striking helicopter pilots essentially firing them Thursday, one day after they started picketing.

The pilots went on strike early Wednesday morning.

The Lafayette, La., based company company, which flies rig workers off shore and operates five air ambulances in the Houston area, would not comment Thursday afternoon.

Allan Duquette, a PHI pilot for 30 years, told 11 News he received his severance notice Thursday morning in a letter from FedEx which said, “Because you are engaging in a strike activity, you are being permanently replaced.” The letter said final paychecks would be mailed within three business days.

Duquette was one of a dozen pilots who picketed outside Galveston’s Scholes Field on Wednesday. Nationwide, the pilots union said more than 200 pilots went on strike early Wednesday morning.

Pilots said they have not had a contract in more than two-and-a-half years. Among other things, pilots want to work less overtime and request a pay raise.

“Guys need time off to be with their families. Having a vacation and then not being able to take it and then lose it. That is an issue that needs to be addressed,” Duquette told 11 News Wednesday.

PHI downplayed the strike. A statement released Wednesday it said the company had “implemented an industry-leading compensation package for its pilots which is above its main competitors.”
Also online

Letter to Allan Duquette

PHI’s statement also minimized the work stoppage saying that only “approximately 25 percent of the company’s pilot workforce participated in this action.”

Striking pilots said the number is much higher.

“Their Gulf of Mexico operations are shut down,” said Bill Lurye, attorney for Local 108, which represents the pilots. He said the union notified the company early this morning “that it’s in violation of the law,” by attempting to permanently replace the pilots.

Lurye said the union is currently considering its legal options.

PHI has a few helicopters flying during this work stoppage. They’re piloted by managers and flight instructors.

Of its five air ambulances in the Greater Houston area, only two are flying Thursday. One in La Porte. A second in Conroe.

PHI’s medical helicopter in Richmond is reportedly tied down on a secondary helipad outside Oakbend Medical Center. Its crew is gone.

LifeFlight is expected to pick up any additional emergencies.

Other offshore helicopters and crew boats are expected to ferry rig and platform workers back and forth to the Gulf of Mexico.

Energy experts doubt this work stoppage will impact petroleum prices.

[B Sousa]

Sort of Standard in most strikes. They fire everyone until a settlement is reached and then hire everyone back. Then the part timers are let go.......
Everyone loves everyone again........after a while.

[SASless]

A simple question...."Just how are they going to replace these pilots in light of their inability to fill the seats they had vacant before the strike?":ugh:

[Impress to inflate]

Are there enough pilots free in the GOM to fill the gap, here in UK, HR depts are busy knitting pilots in there lunch hour to fill the shortfall. Comments please. ITI.:ugh:

[diethelm]

They are on strike in Phoenix where the news reported that very few of the Airevac helicopters were flying. Unfortunately for the pilots, Arizona is a right to work state and they can be fired.

[Revolutionary]

Diethelm, quick correction: Arizona PHI pilots (of which I am one) can not be fired merely for going on strike, right to work state or not. We are, however, 'permanently replaced', meaning that if we go back to work it will be as needed, in order of seniority, and possibly in a different function from the one we were in.

[cowboyz]

should've done it when gas prices were high...

[diethelm]

Are the pilots considered exempt on non-exempt employees?

[ferrydude]

Non-exempt

[GLSNightPilot]

It makes no difference. The pilots are organized under the federal Railway Labor Act, which takes precedence over any state laws. That act requires that all strikers be returned to their jobs after the strike ends. This protection does not apply to any replacements hired, nor to any employees who continue to work.

[SASless]

I heard some interesting news tonight regarding the strike by PHI pilots.

Non-union pilots are stopping by and offering their support, buying pizzas, and offering accomodation to striking pilots. Non-union companies might pay note of that....other rumblings about unhappy folks might be far more than just pilot talk.

Air Log union pilots also providing assistance to the PHI strikers.

Reports suggested 80% of the PHI aircraft remained on the ground today.

The S-92's on the BP contract are being flown by management pilots and Sikorsky Factory Pilots.

Field reports also suggest it is more like a 90% walkout with only eleven known pilots crossing the picket line.

Some contract pilots are flying but are very few in number as I heard it.

Some discussion was had about PHI having hired a second consulting firm to assist in the fight against the union....evidently one firm alone was not enough.

Time will tell....but the figure of only 25% of the Union pilots participating as quoted by PHI sounds grossly understated.

Day Three tomorrow...perhaps some of the PHI hands will show up here and provide more accurate information.

[Old Skool]

The latest release from the Pilots Union
Dateline: 22 Sep 2006
Hitch 1 Pilots Carry Us Forward!
It was very apparent from the start of our work stoppage at 4:00 A.M., Wednesday, 20 Sep 2006, that PHI would use every trick in the book to intimidate its pilots to break ranks and cross our picket lines. We all anticipated that the level of support from both hitches would be solid, and today that was proven by the show of unity when the Hitch 1 pilots held our line. Remarkable show of support!!!
Moving on to other matters, many pilots received letters from PHI today, including payout of earnings and accrued vacation time. We believe PHI has violated the law by unlawfully withholding money from those checks. Our lawyers have notified company representatives of our intent to file suit (see attached) to seek remedy for those illegal deductions. How low can PHI stoop?
We have seen the latest report from PHI to the investor reporting groups, and are wondering if PHI has employed Comical Ali (a/k/a Baghdad Bob) as their publicist. The claim that PHI operations has completed approximately 80% of its normal flight volumes, and its Air Medical segment is operating at about 90% of the volume prior to the union job actions is laughable. The reports from our Local 107 brethren tell us that PHI aircraft at all GOM bases is neatly tied down to the helipads, except for one or two. According to the ground reports we have received from our EMS pilots, those operations are far below the 90% claimed by PHI.
Support for Local 108 Pilots in their fight against PHI intimidation and fear tactics is growing daily. We have received both public and financial support from throughout the industry. President Goodwin will be making an announcement about that at the rally in Lafayette on .
Moving on to Lafayette, many of you who participated in the picketing event last Wednesday, were told by the sheriff we were marching on PHI property and had to leave the premises. When questioned, the sheriff stated PHI showed him a drawing of their property lines and we were on it. As it now turns out, and to no one's surprise, PHI had deceived the sheriff by showing him an incorrect property map.
Your Local 108 representatives did some investigating of their own, secured a property map from the Lafayette airport commission, presented it to the Sheriff's department and now we are free to picket in front of PHI on , September , 2006. The Sheriff's department will mark the property line with a tape for our guidance. Can anyone believe anything PHI says?
Finally, we want to thank our wives and families for the support they continue to give us in our fight for justice in the workplace. We love you all for helping us win this fight to gain the respect we deserve as professional pilots.
Remember, no one goes back until we all go back!!!
In unity,
Local 108 Executive Board

[tistisnot]

Great to see people are able to give immediate assistance to the PHI pilots. I only ask that unless you are directly contracted to fly for PHI outside of the Union you should avoid any ploy by management to assist their bluff to the oil companies that they can solve this little impasse themselves.

I am sure it will be very difficult to resist applying for a job if you are without employment but everyone must view the long term goals here - the riddance of the reprehensible 'hire'em and fire'em' mentality and establishment of just reward for due skills and service.

[rotor-rooter]

Is that for real?

Sikorsky Factory Pilots:eek:

[SASless]

Old Skool confirms the "Spy in the Sky" report I posted earlier....perhaps PHI management have a deficiency in Maths which might account for the whole problem.

The SEC filing PHI made recently that showed a Fourteen Million dollar operating loss due to the early repayment of debt failed to indicate the repayment of debt went to the CEO/majority stock holder AL G.

Could this whole thing be about running the stock price down and buying up the outstanding stock and putting himself into a position to take full ownership of the company but still have time during this "boom time" to recoup the losses?

[NickLappos]

I just PM'd SASless with this:

I know Sikorsky provided pilots for PHI to get them started (I used to do this, too, I flew at KLM Noordzee for a few months in the 70's).

I would guess that these pilots would cross a picket line.
Honestly, I probably would, not because I didn't agree with the strikers, just because my job is what it is, and that is the deal I made with my company. Were I a union employee for a company, I would probably honor the picket line.

Tough times call for tough decisions.

[SASless]

Agusta in Italy had quite a different view....when teaching on the Chinook there and "non-union", during the annual strikes Management told us to down tools and honor the strike.

But as Nick says....it is an individual choice.

For me....I have never crossed a picket line....except when in a management position at the facility being picketed but still dropped of the doughnuts or cinnamon rolls. Perhaps we were lucky in that despite the strike friendships remained intact.


http://www.local108pilots.org/images/Action-LFT.JPG

[chc&proud]

In Scandinavia, interfering with a legal strike is considered a very serious offense indeed.

People who do not have the common sense or decency to let the negotiating parties resolve outstanding issues on their own run a noticable risk of personal consequences.

One bad aspect of interfering with a strike is that the process leading to a resolution easily could be derailed, due to focus shifting away from the challenges of the CLA. This might end up prolonging the pain and agony for the employees of the company, for management and for the customers.

The Sikorsky factory pilots are surely busy at work in Connecticut, helping to sort out the challenge of making the S92A into a trustworthy, smooth and comfortable aircraft?

Anyway, I'm certain that Stephen Ragin, the President of Local 108 and his team is hard at work looking for solutions. Hopefully management is hard at work on the same agenda, too.

[B Sousa]

I guess the picture says it all. Its kind of scary for these folks, they are pretty much laying their jobs up for the take. Striking in this economy could mean being hungry for some time.
Helicopter Pilots that I have seen in my years of flying have traditionaly been dumped on, run over and shoved out the door. So for these guys/gals to risk it all, it has to say something.
Might be something if others show a little solidarity, but again as helicopter Pilots, that will never happen.
I just wish the tour industry would get the message that not all of us are incoming Robbie drivers and paid as such. Experience should be worth more than (below) minimum wage. And yes, I know the owners response, you dont like it, we can find another to take your place.

[HillerBee]

PHI won't find that number of replacement pilots. The individual pilots won't have problems to find new jobs at all.

If PHI wants to stay in business they have to come up with a solution very quickly. (Someone said they are losing $1M a day!?)

[Helibloke]

Anyone who breaches a picket line is SCAB, justify how you like and I've seen a few on this thread who will. Still a feckin scab though. You dont have to take the work but you will, SCAB.

[rjsquirrel]

chc&proud,

I guess it all depends on what you mean by "interfering with a legal strike."
Do you believe that a company that obeys the law and replaces workers is wrong? Do you believe that a non-union employee who crosses a picket line is wrong? What is "interfering" to you?

I personally think unions are good. I think strikes are sometimes necessary. The strike makes an economic cost to the company, and to the striker, and tests the wills of both.

Helibloke
........and your point is?

[Helibloke]

Well I thought it spoke for it's self, if you take a job that people are on strike to protect,you're a SCAB.

[SASless]

From the dictionary.....

scab (skăb) pronunciation
n.

1. A crust discharged from and covering a healing wound.
2. Scabies or mange in domestic animals or livestock, especially sheep.
3.
1. Any of various plant diseases caused by fungi or bacteria and resulting in crustlike spots on fruit, leaves, or roots.
2. The spots caused by such a disease.
4. Slang. A person regarded as contemptible.
5.
1. A worker who refuses membership in a labor union.
2. An employee who works while others are on strike; a strikebreaker.
3. A person hired to replace a striking worker.

intr.v., scabbed, scab·bing, scabs.

1. To become covered with scabs or a scab.
2. To work or take a job as a scab.

[Middle English, from Old Norse skabb.]

[rjsquirrel]

We are separated by not just a language, but the ideas behind it!

Precisely how does a strike "protect the job"? How does a person who walks across a picket line "interfere with a strike"? Do Europeans use words like this to hide the socialist leanings of your government and your people, or to justify them?

A strike is a power play by a group of workers who bet that they can force their employer to cave in and meet their demands. Many strikes have been called to force unreasonable demands, and many have been for good reason. An employer ignores demands in his power play to get away with as much as he can. May the ones with the most power win!

Without unions, employers would put workers into cans and sell them to make money. With unions running the whole show, nothing would get done and everybody would sit around and play cards and draw checks. With a balance, the world works. The US labor laws are finely tuned. Workers who replace strikers are allowed, sometimes, and when they are, their jobs are not secure.

[Project Pilot FH1100]

I'm not sure I agree with RJSquirrel's contention that: "With unions running the whole show, nothing would get done and everybody would sit around and play cards and draw checks." Unions certainly "ran the show" at most major U.S. airlines for decades, yet somehow planes flew in and out and passengers made it to their destinations most of the time. A relative worked in the catering department of one of the largest and most prestigious carriers (back when they had their own catering departments). Although he had strong union representation the demands of the job were strict. It would be a serious mistake to say that he sat around and played cards. Nor do I see how a pilot's job is fundamentally changed by union membership. But such are the misconceptions people have about unions. Despite what some may think, unions generally recognize the need for a company to be healthy and profitable, for without the company there is no union.

As a former PHI pilot who was involved in the OPEIU organizing drive of 1995/6 and then a member of the first Negotiating Committee, I have a keen interest in this issue. However my dog is no longer in the hunt and I am forced to watch the goings-on from afar through the presbyopic monocular of the internet. I am not liking the view.

Back in the day, none of us on the Organizing Committee wanted a strike. It's never a good thing. We sincerely hoped that the company would deal with the union honestly, fairly, and bargain in good faith. That was certainly our intent. The perspective of hindsight shows us how naive and wrong we were.

I suppose this strike was inevitable. Even then we knew one or the other of the companies (PHI or Air Log) would eventually draw that famous line in the sand and decide to bust the union for good. PHI has obviously calculated that support for the union is poor enough to do so now. Time will tell if they are right.

In the meantime the rhetoric flies, even if some helicopters don't. The JH site is clogged with even more useless chatter than usual. Lots of misinformation there for anyone foolish enough to take it seriously. Thankfully, we have PPRUNE and the two PHI Stan's (Grossman and GLS Night Pilot) to give us the levelheaded insider point of view.

On the "other" site, some make the laughable claim that salaries would be where they are now even without the union. Anyone who truly believes that is simply delusional; salaries never would have risen this high this quickly if left to those nebulous market forces we keep hearing about. Not as long as there are wannabe's out there who will sell their soul to fly helicopters for a living. And I, even as out of the industry as I am, keep receiving such emails from aspiring pilots. Salaries would have gone up a bit, yes I don't deny that. But minimum-time requirements would have come down faster.

And some complain that the union primarily benefits the old-timers. Well, umm, yeah. By design. Duh. Union membership does benefit all members, but one of the things we hoped to accomplish by unionizing was to change the mentality of helicopter pilots and slow the rampant job-hopping to supposedly greener pastures. We wanted to make it desireable to stick around and be loyal to *one* company, to enjoy the advantages of seniority and longevity. I guess not everyone (company or pilot) sees that as a good thing.

PHI's claim that only 25% of their pilots are striking is obviously the lowest number they thought they could get away with publishing, but I don't believe it. Having a spokesman for BP issue a positive statement was cute though. Cuteness aside, PHI shows that they're not above playing hardball, sending notices to striking pilots that they are hereby "permanently replaced." Anyone familiar with the company's previous antics is not surprised. I was told that during a previous organizing attempt (before my time), PHI sent faux paychecks to all pilots with nothing but zeroes on them, saying basically, "This is what you'll see if you vote for the union." The current pilots were undoubtedly warned to expect such tricks again.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I believe the 80 to 90% number that Sasless is being fed either. The truth, as always, probably lies somewhere in the middle.

If the pilots have strong resolve, I would wager that the strike will last at least three weeks. By then, the scabs will tired and itching for some time off. The money will be great, but money only goes so far. And by then, even the most sympathetic customer will have had enough. I don't see it going longer than a month. But I've been wrong before.

This is a pivotal time for U.S. helicopter pilots and there is much at stake on both sides. But it's a sad state of affairs, and I'm sorry it's come to this: The day we hoped we'd never see.

-Bob Barbanes

[rjsquirrel]

Bob,

Unfortunately, you prove my point. The major US Airlines are all on the ropes now due to union greed and the ability of airlines to charge whatever they wanted in a tightly regulated market. It was the removal of Government airline ticket regulation that lead to the disaster now being felt by the majors. The fat salaries for pilots (1/4 million per year for a driver!!) and flight attendants is the biggest reason for their inability to reduce cost. Their bloated contracts are now being overturned by bankruptcy judges.

Otherwise, I agree with your post, and frankly support unions, including PHI Pilots!

But I also think the Euro-speak that says scabs "interfere" with a strike, and strikes "protect the job" are hogwash, and sound like "Workers of the world, Unite!", a favorite refrain of every commie organizer who never worked a day in his life.

Unions suck, management sucks, it is the balance of the two greedy actors that holds promise of sanity.

[tottigol]

"Having a spokesman for BP issue a positive statement was cute though. Cuteness aside, PHI shows that they're not above playing hardball, sending notices to striking pilots that they are hereby "permanently replaced"."

Hey Bob, I wonder if that spokesman wouldn't possibly be a certain former PHI Director of Operations dating back to our time?

[slgrossman]

I just PM'd SASless with this:

I know Sikorsky provided pilots for PHI to get them started (I used to do this, too, I flew at KLM Noordzee for a few months in the 70's).

I would guess that these pilots would cross a picket line.
Honestly, I probably would, not because I didn't agree with the strikers, just because my job is what it is, and that is the deal I made with my company. Were I a union employee for a company, I would probably honor the picket line.

Tough times call for tough decisions.

Nick,

The rumor of Sikorsky pilots flying for PHI appears to be just that, a rumor. A couple of our (permanently replaced) S-92 pilots made some phone calls and confirmed that while Mr. Gonsoulin may have approached Sikorsky, no Sikorsky factory pilots are currently flying PHI aircraft. I don't know if they could legally refuse if told to do so, but at this point it appears they've not crossed the picket line.

As far as being a tough decision, perhaps it was for some, but most of us feel the action was forced upon us by the company's intransigence in failing to acknowledge and address the substantive issues.

SASless,

A significant number of PHI pilots have, in fact, crossed the picket line declining to honor the strike, each for his/her own very personal reasons. However, the company had been operating in such a personnel deficit before the strike that the loss of even a few pilots would dramatically affect the company's ability to meet its obligations. Rest assured that a majority (I don't have an accurate figure) of the pilots are, in fact, honoring the strike and witholding their services. As time goes on the shortage will become more acute as flight crews reach their currency (required check rides) and duty time limits with no one available to train or replace them.

Weekends are normally not too busy, so the company may still be able to convince some that they're able to operate almost normally. However, come Monday we'll all have a much better gauge of the effectiveness of this action.

-Stan-

[GLSNightPilot]

rj, I can't agree with you. Unions have little to do with the unprofitability of airlines, automobile manufacturers, or any other industry. Unprofitability is the result of management incompetence and greed. Southwest Airlines is, and always has been, highly profitable, and is one of the most unionized companies in existence. SWA treats its employees fairly, gives them a say in how the company is run, and thus has always made a big profit. American Airlines, under Crandall, went broke because of management incompetence. Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler are going broke not because of unions, but because of management incomptence, turning out models that nobody will buy. Unions are a convenient scapegoat, but there is no truth in the blame they get.

[SRagin]

To set the record straight, so far we have absolutely no evidence that Sikorsky-employed pilots are flying for PHI, Inc. in any capacity.

The PHI pilots who have flown with them in the past tell me that they have way too much class for that sort of activity.

All the best,
Stephen D. Ragin
President, OPEIU/PHPA Local 108

[NickLappos]

Stan,
I am glad to hear that, because it would be a tough decision for me, personally.

[GLSNightPilot]

I'm hearing that Gonsoulin called Pino and asked for the pilots, but apparently didn't get them. The pilots are saying they haven't been asked, and wouldn't cross the picket line if they were asked.

[Project Pilot FH1100]

It's kind of funny to hear people say on one hand that it's those dang-ol' high union salaries that are killing companies, and on the other hand claim that salaries would be just as high now without the union.

Can't have it both ways, guys.

RJS, not to get into a peeing contest, but what you *said* was:

With unions running the whole show, nothing would get done and everybody would sit around and play cards and draw checks.

I respectfully disagree. Even with unions, stuff gets done. It *has* to get done or no revenue comes in. The Big Fear of unions is that everyone will take on a "not my job, man" or "I'm on break" mentality. I don't see how that would happen with pilots. We're assigned flights, we take flights. Unionized airline pilots have been doing just that since 1939.

Yes, Deregulation hurt the U.S. airline industry badly, but as others have pointed out the sole blame for that cannot be laid on "unions." I, for one, blame the DC-9. Jeez-Louise, getting stuck in the middle seat in the rear of one of those was my personal version of hell. And that Canadair Regional Jet? Torture! So instead of flying from Florida up to New York to visit family, I just drove. Took longer, yes. But I had a big seat all to myself. Now, if there's a choice, I drive. And I wonder how many others there are out there like me who feel the same way? The airlines themselves drove us to driving, then had to cut fares to the bone to entice people to fill their tiny seats.

[Chopter]

PHI replacing striking pilots

Jason Brown
[email protected]

A PHI official on Friday said the company has begun permanently replacing those pilots who walked out in support of a union strike against the company Wednesday.
Richard Rovinelli, chief administrative officer at PHI, said Friday the company has received a great deal of applications from interested pilots following the strike, which he said has had minimal effect on the company's daily operations.

But with an overall pilot shortage throughout the Gulf coast region, it is unclear exactly where the pilots are coming from. Some companies require more than 1,000 flight hours to operate a helicopter on the Gulf coast.

"Obviously you don't replace that many pilots overnight," Rovinelli said, adding that the new higher pay scale and economic benefits package put in place before the union's strike has helped to lure more pilots into the area.
Union President Steve Ragin said the company has told each union member in support of the strike that they would be permanently replaced. Ragin referred to it as a scare tactic used to intimidate employees.

He said he and other striking employees have been informed that their employment has been terminated and that the company would be sending their last check. They have also asked that they turn in all of their equipment.

"Which I will probably do despite the fact that I expect to be back at work at some point in the future with Petroleum Helicopters," Ragin said.

It is unclear exactly how many of PHI's 550-plus pilots are striking and how many could potentially be replaced by the company as both the union and company have given different figures regarding the work-stoppage.

The company said that only 25 percent of the pilots in both the oil and gas sector and its EMS division supported the work stoppage. The union placed the figure much higher.

On Friday, PHI issued a statement that the union "has made numerous false public statements regarding PHI's flight activity."

PHI said its oil and gas operations in the Gulf of Mexico have completed approximately 80 percent of its normal flight volumes and its air medical segment is operating at about 90 percent.

"Our customers have been very supportive to us," Rovinelli said.

[chc&proud]

Industrial action is never the preferred option, neither for a union nor for management. It hurts everyone involved, and can easily leave behind a long term fallout of distrust and animosity. Leave the parties alone to sort out their differences.

It is ill advised for any pilot who wants to earn the respect and friendship of his fellow colleagues to act in a way that might be considered to interfer with a lawful strike. This is basic social intelligence for any sensible person, in my opinion.

CHC Helikopter Service in Norway have been more than 90 % unionised for decades. The company for all practical purposes have made a profit every year for more than 40 years, despite facing stiff competition at times.
All 5 companies in CHC Europe are more than 90 % union. All companies are profitable and highly productive, based on sensible collective labor agreements.

The same could be the case in PHI, even after an agreement have been reached.

All over the world a shortage of qualified helicopter pilots have emerged.
It's hard to see how PHI can replace highly skilled pilots all of a sudden. From what I've seen the companies in the GOM even prior to the strike were having problems reqruiting pilots. Am I mistaken? Perhaps PHI would lower minimum requirements for new candidates?

The GOM have problems trying to find a cure for incident levels and accident levels which the customers find unacceptable. The fact is that the oil companies all around the world have set a goal: Accident rates for offshore operations should be reduced to the levels of airline travel by 2012. It's hard to see this goal being achievable if the parties in PHI can not see eye to eye.

[GLSNightPilot]

PHI hasn't been able to keep up with attrition over the past couple of years, much less replace half its pilot force. The company has publicly admitted that it has been hiring less than half the number it needs, and well over half the ones it has hired have quit before completing training. The only way to accelerate hiring is to hire very low-time pilots and give them minimal training; even that won't cover the shortfalls. Even with huge amounts of mandatory workover, they couldn't man all the aircraft before the strike, and they won't be able to man them for years via hiring replacements.

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

can someone enlighten me as to the size of PHI against ERA for example, and could the competitors soak up the contracts if need be, or do they also have a huge pilot retention and attraction problem ?

[B Sousa]

Latest Rumor is the its gone to $700/day for Contract Pilots. Not bad money.

[Chopter]

PHI strike video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMHnd7L2xo4

[GLSNightPilot]

PHI is the largest, but Air Log & Era aren't too far behind. None has any excess capacity, either in pilots or aircraft. Era has been hard-pressed to cover all its jobs since winning the MMS contract, and Air Log has very few spare aircraft, just about enough to cover normal maintenance downtime and some ad hocs. None of the competitors has any chance at all of covering even a small percentage of PHI's work. Neither the aircraft nor the pilots exist, and all the GOM companies have been hiring and buying aircraft at the highest rate they can, for some time. Crew changes for PHI customers are being done mostly by boat, and riding a boat 100+NM doesn't put the hands in the mood to do a lot of work right away. The customers are getting restless.

[SASless]

Historical attrition rates at one of the big three was running about 100 pilots per year in addition to normal attrition (deaths, disability, retirements) which equated to about 35% of the pilot force. Thus every three years....a complete turnover by numbers. That outfit is estimated to be running 30-40 pilots short of needs daily thus requiring significant workover by pilots on their week off.

The costs of recruiting and initial training must be huge with that amount of turnover.

[Steve76]

How many BILLIONS of dollars profit did BP, ESSO, etc.. make this year?
Seems to me that pilots asking for a bit more money is not unreasonable. We are not the ones doing the gouging.

I saw a picket sign with FAMILY crossed out. It would appear there is more at stake here than money.

Good on you guys. I would stand there too and I would encourage the pilots of the other offshore operators in the Gulf to unionise and join them. Imagine the attention that would garnish.

[paul abersynth]

Helicopter Pilots unionise. Thats an oxymoron Mr Steve. Hey man why no you write me email. Off on Tue to hols with lik lik family love to chat before hand.

PA

[High Nr]

To put the Australia statements into context, the readers of the Forum need to understand where the “roots” of the Aussie Industrial Movement started and the Blood and Tears behind the early union movement.
Without creating a history lesson, it started in the Gold Fields in the state of Victoria in the 1850’s where the workers finally joined together [unionised] [spelt with an “s’] and rebelled against the corrupt and inept [British] ‘authorities” of the time. This action is well known as the Eureka Rebellion.

Since then the Unions have provided the Industrial Framework in which the normal workforce has been protected, to the extent that we Aussies can enjoy the same if not best Western Industrial Standards across the world. [Just ask all the immigrants and boat people].

One of the strong and certainly not acceptable actions of any worker, is to take the job of a worker who is engaged in legal industry action with his or her employer.

That person should they wish to cross to the dark side, is indeed a SCAB and very very short sighted.
Short sighted on a number of fronts: Firstly the actions of the workforce to enhance their conditions in the first place is immediately scuttled, if the SCAB decides to work in another persons job.
The SCAB is not a respectable person and will be the loser in the end. If you doubt this aspect, just ask the SCABS that crossed the Picket Line at the Patrick’s Stevedores dispute on the Victorian Water Front a few years ago. When the Strikers and Company resolved their differences, guess who is now unemployed – permanently!!
They are also cases that cars, vehicles and other equipment that was operated by SCABS was never ever operated again by the normal workforce. I am glad that the Sikorsky rumor is just that.
Helibloke says it a little closer to the point than I, but a SCAB is a SCAB and that is not the way forward.
Hope the dispute is settled quickly, and with both parties having a win.

[John Eacott]

One of the strong and certainly not acceptable actions of any worker, is to take the job of a worker who is engaged in legal industry action with his or her employer.

That person should they wish to cross to the dark side, is indeed a SCAB and very very short sighted.

Unless, of course, the Union consists of pilots, and the Labor (Socialist) Government under Bob Hawke bring in the Military to act as scabs.

Then, of course, it all seems to be perfectly acceptable to put a professional workforce out into the land of the unemployed, where they remain blacklisted to this day :oh: :yuk:

[B Sousa]

High Nr
The U.S. is NOT Austrailia. They dont have that cohesive bond. It seems once folks here get hungry, they will usually sell out.
Im betting there are a bunch of Robbie Drivers out there foaming at the mouth for a chance to get some turbine time and good green. Will PHI higher them? It remains to be seen. Folks do strange things when desperate.

I have mixed emotions on Unions, specially in Las Vegas. I watched a loyal union sheet metal friend go without a job here for almost two years, because few would pay Union wages while they had an Army of Mexicans who would work for cheese and crackers. He finally had to move. God bless Amerika.

[topendtorque]

I would be careful of a discussion sinking into the pros and cons of unionism; one needs a masters of political science to even remember the histories and outcomes of most infamous actions. The OZ pilots strike has been mentioned, apart from anything else it sent 75 business’s in the main street of Cairns that relied on the airborne fly in tourist trade to the wall. Many others – self, our pilots and many other pilots at the time involved in the same tourist trade - almost went the same way.

Eureka in 1854 has been mentioned, it may have been a precursor of unionism or more correctly democracy and reform of unfair laws for this country for sure, but the great shearers strike at Blackall in Queensland - January 1891 - was the first big industrial action that formed the commencement of the Labor Party and what really set unionism in this country in concrete.

But change in procedural matters is a giant rollercoaster and I doubt that strikes have a real place in the modern society of materialism where almost every blue and white collar workers household in all countries now revolves around cash flow for mortgages of some sort. Unlike 1891 where family sustenance could be had by the veggie garden and the family prodigal fetching home a bit of wild game with the use of a pea rifle.

This materialism aspect has been touched on by commentators of the PHI dispute, about which I know nothing.

That materialism aspect changed the demographics of the outcomes of the recent OZ Patrick’s stevedores action ( possibly was deliberately thought of by Patrick’s and carelessly not thought of by the union organisers) – and – gave this country for the first time some realistic capacity to trade over the wharf at a competitive price with the world market free (ha-ha) traders. The workers were merely sacrificial pawns in the big game.

I believe that capacity to negotiate with someone will win more points than confrontation, the OZ pilots strike showed the negative aspect of confrontation.

Within that philosophy the very strong use of the word ‘scab’ for example, tends to illustrate to me what it must really be like when an irreversible valve that during flight suddenly locks immovably the wrong way. We all know what happens then.
Mind you other English words are hard to bear too, such as the robust word, palliative, it would be great if that area of medicine could be described in more subtle fashion.

Intransigence from people is – sure- difficult to handle at best, I have always maintained that the more immovable an attitude or object is then the more ways that can be invented to change it, from either side of the fence or picquet line.

This reminds me of a funny story around one of the meatworkers strikes in the Northern Territory. The meatworks owner was continuing trading, without problems as the picquets at the front gate were quite narrow in their blockade.

One day said owner hired a musterer, a friend and very handy pilot with a bit of a mad streak, not a teetotaller, who had graduated to the trade from the back of many mad horses. I know he won’t mind this reference.

At daylight owner and pilot took-off and on the way to the day’s work, they decided in a moment of (clear headed????) mischief to view at very close quarters the picquet’s who were still half drunk and asleep, their loosely moored tents, swags, campfires and etc from the cockpit of a noisy ’47.

To this old mate adds a comment over his very loud hailer, “Picquet’s, man your posts!!!!:ok: ”

It was a very, very dusty area, they soon disappeared.

[SRagin]

PHI recently changed their minimum entry requirements from the industry-standard 1000 hrs. to 500. They were intended to fill copilot seats, only, initially. Instead we understand they are filling BH206 seats and flying for customers with no minimum flying hour requirements.

[GLSNightPilot]

500 is as low as you can go. Part 135 requires at least 500 hours PIC in order to act as pilot in command of any aircraft flying under that part. So they've hit rock bottom, and still can't fill the seats, even with all vacation denied and massive mandatory overtime. I haven't had a vacation in more than 5 years, and have been mandated for overtime in Morgan City at least every other break for longer than I can remember. It's the same for every other medium and heavy pilot. Claims that they can replace us are laughable, because they can't even find replacements for normal attrition.

[DUSTOFF30]

"Having seen the way PHI is treating its pilots I personally will never seek employment with PHI. Furthermore I will recommend to any pilot I know considering applying for employment at PHI to look elsewhere. Today there are many, many employment opportunities available with companies which treat their pilots fairly. It is a shame PHI is no longer one of those. This message will most assuredly spread across the industry and PHI will soon be known as the company no one wishes to work for".

[Project Pilot FH1100]

Claims that they can replace us are laughable, because they can't even find replacements for normal attrition.They can, Stan, if they lower the standards to 500 hours.

500-hour 206 PICs in the GOM? Coming into winter? Oh, Lord. How did someone convince Hurst this is a good plan? Has he taken leave of his senses? He better take leave of PHI and soon! Hey Suldo, got any openings over there?

These are desperate times indeed. Good luck, guys. My heart is with you.

[SASless]

Seems odd....publically stated at Air Log not so long ago by those in the know, was "oil companies are very leary of using pilots that have not spent at least one winter in the Gulf, no matter their experience level."

That was heard at a nice steak dinner one night on the Air Log tab.

[tottigol]

High Nr
The U.S. is NOT Austrailia. They dont have that cohesive bond. It seems once folks here get hungry, they will usually sell out.
I have mixed emotions on Unions, specially in Las Vegas. I watched a loyal union sheet metal friend go without a job here for almost two years, because few would pay Union wages while they had an Army of Mexicans who would work for cheese and crackers. He finally had to move. God bless Amerika.

I don't really mean to hijack the thread but the problem there does not seem to lie with the Unions, rather with someone providing illegal employment and/ or someone else willing to take a job for far less than it ought to get paid.
All that in a way is the reason why we helicopter pilots are where we are today in the USA, as opposed to Europe for example.

[aclark79]

So I called my friend (former instructor) who now flies for PHI, 2,200+ hours. What a diffrence in story, he loves his job, thinks the company is treating people fairly, isn't required to do overtime (voluntary basis), oil companies are supporting PHI, over 100 pilots so far walked out of the Union, the Union refused to let the membership vote on the strike etc etc etc.

Now it just may be at his station people are happy, and I am not debating PHI's past record, but he said it apptly, don't belive everything you hear and very little of what you are reading on the forum.

Personally I've been in a Union and I've been at places that were vehemently anti-union so I've seen both sides. I think overall a union is a good idea, but I've also seen it terribly abused and I don't think the union should ever decide on a strike without letting the members vote on it.

[ron-powell]

The Local 108 pilots voted for a strike last January with an overwhelming majority of members voting for it.
Ron Powell
PHI Air Medical
Albuquerque NM

[SRagin]

I retract my remarks earlier about Sikorsky-employed pilots flying for PHI during the strike. It has been reliably reported to me now that two pilots from Sikorsky's Stratford, Connecticut facility are indeed flying for PHI during the strike. These are apparently not the pilots who flew with PHI pilots during the inauguration of the S92 into service, and about whom I wrote favorably.

In addition, I am reliably told that at least one pilot employed by Flight Safety International is flying for PHI during this strike, as well.

So there you have it, folks. Two industry-leading companies joining PHI in their attempt to put down a legal work action from their pilots.

Like my earlier remarks, these are subject to correction as corroborating evidence comes in. Nevertheless, it was my hope to quell an unpleasant rumor when I made the earlier favorable-to-Sikorsky post, and I do not make these charges lightly.

Stephen D. Ragin
President OPEIU/PHPA Local 108

[tottigol]

So I called my friend (former instructor) who now flies for PHI, 2,200+ hours. What a diffrence in story, he loves his job, thinks the company is treating people fairly, isn't required to do overtime (voluntary basis), oil companies are supporting PHI, over 100 pilots so far walked out of the Union, the Union refused to let the membership vote on the strike etc etc etc.
Now it just may be at his station people are happy, and I am not debating PHI's past record, but he said it apptly, don't belive everything you hear and very little of what you are reading on the forum.
Personally I've been in a Union and I've been at places that were vehemently anti-union so I've seen both sides. I think overall a union is a good idea, but I've also seen it terribly abused and I don't think the union should ever decide on a strike without letting the members vote on it.

I am not going to question what your friend told you, but judging from his flight time he likely never saw a PHI without the cover of union representation, so how would he know the difference?
I can tell you that I personally know Steve Ragin, both Stans and Bob and I can tell you I am kind of inclined to believe their version, for both their record and having been employeed by PHI.

[chc&proud]

Being situated thousands of miles away from Lafayette, even I know for a fact that the negotiations committee was given an overwhelming mandate from their colleagues in Local 108 to enter into strike action if this was deemed necessary. Perhaps the members(?) who find reason to raise the question of mandate should find other ways of getting the facts straight?

Using chat rooms on the web for this could easily have the effect of creating doubt and uncertainty, thereby undermining the work of the negotiations committee. I am certain this would never have been the intention of the poster, and it all boils down to not having done your homework?

Would it not have been easier to make a phone call or send an e-mail to one of the pilot representatives? I am certain one of the hardworking and trustworthy pilot representatives would do his utmost to provide you with the necessary documentation to sort out any questions. All you have to do is to provide him with your name, so that he can verify that you are a member of Local 108.

A word of advice: When the going gets tough you do not leave your elected representatives alone on the battlefield:
* First you elect pilot representatives.
* Then most of you give them mandate to negotiate.
* Then most of you give them mandate to initiate strike.
* Then a few of you abandon them when the battle begins, when the sound of live rounds are heard.

This is not impressive.

There is a term which is befitting people like that, all over the world, regardless of political sympathies.

The good thing is that lots of my former colleagues are acting admirably, standing tall in a manner which makes me proud to have flown with you back in the -80's.

This gives good reason to assume you will come out of this with your head held high.

[Tmflyer]

In respectful response to Aclark and RonPowell Posts above, and in keeping with the higher tone of discourse on this thread....
Yes, the membership did vote overwhelmingly ..in January 2006... in favor a withdrawal of service, as is customary in most protracted negotiations.
However, I believe Aclark is referring to the absence of *another* vote by the membership in...late Summer 2006.. on the Last Offers made by PHI.
Naturally, there is no requirement that this be done by Union Leadership.
However since the terms of the Last Offer apparently were favorable enough so that 'many'? pilots voted to accept them 'with their feet' as new terms of employment, I see Aclark's question as very germane
In conclusion, as a fellow Mother Rucker Guy (ORWAC 65-10), I have a lot of respect for Steve and his fellow Officers. They have been there.
I sincerely hope this situation is eventually resolved to the benefit of all.

[GLSNightPilot]

Voting on the company's "last and best offer" would have been a tremendous waste of time. It would have taken at least a couple of weeks, likely more, and it would have been overwhelmingly voted down. There was absolutely no chance of it being ratified. Those calling for a vote simply wanted to delay the inevitable. CHC&Proud has it right - those who voted for strike authorization and then got cold feet deserve the names they are and will be called. There will be some cold cockpits when this is over.

Hiring 500 hour pilots won't fill the void for PHI. There are fewer small ships in service every month, and more and more medium and heavy ships. 500-hour former Robbie drivers simply cannot be promoted to S92 or S76 PICs overnight. All the oil companies require much more time and experience for IFR PICs. PHI has plenty of 206 pilots, but even placing new hires into SIC positions hasn't made a dent in the medium/heavy shortage. I've been flying with lots of SICs with less than a year with the company, and while they're mostly competent SICs, they're a long way from being able to act as an IFR PIC. They're still learning to do normal approaches to rigs, and boat landings scare them to death. They'll get there, eventually, but not this year.

[SRagin]

<sigh>

As we have posted so many times on other forums, their offer was incomplete. Please read this again, their offer was incomplete. PHI did give a last and final offer on Pay and on Bonuses but many important issues remain open. We cannot present something like this to our members. Their excuse was 'it doesn't really matter, if we cannot agree on pay.'

Well, yes it does matter. Pay and bonuses at any level are useless unless you have the legal framework to guarantee them. Please ask PHI what it is that they want you to vote on. I sure don't know...

I am convinced there was no agreement to be had.

[ron-powell]

Tmflyer:
>However since the terms of the Last Offer apparently were favorable
>enough so that 'many'? pilots voted to accept them 'with their feet'
>as new terms of employment, I see Aclark's question as very germane…..
Well Sir, I beg to differ. Two of the New Mexico pilots quit the union prior to us receiving any new salary and benefits information. Another quit because he felt he wasn’t getting timely or pertinent information from the union. And the last one decided he wouldn’t strike “because the bible told him not to”, so he quit as well after telling me it wasn’t about the money (the money he would make working over). The last pilot was unsupportive of the union even though he was a member. I don’t know when he quit ref the information package we received. Not one of these pilots voiced an opinion one way or the other as to the package offered up by the company, some not even having seen it.
If this is any indication, pilots are just fearful of loosing their jobs – just the mindset the company wants them in as evidenced by the paperwork (via FedEx no less – how much does that cost, times hundreds of pilots?) that seems to be coming to my door.
Respectfully,
Ron Powell
PHI Air Medical
Albuquerque NM

[SASless]

Two Sikorsky and One FSI pilot flying S-92's for PHI during the strike?

Are they conducting training or flying Line Trips hauling passengers?



Seems odd that Flight Safety International would violate their own strictly enforced policy about FSI pilots flying for any operator much less one that undergoing a strike!

I cannot wait for Sim training after the strike and that FSI guy is assigned to do the PHI training. After all he would be the best pick by FSI to do the training being line current.

[SRagin]

My understanding is that the Sikorsky pilots are flying the line in the S92. I'm not sure if the FSI pilot is in the 92 or the 76.

My recollection is that the FSI pilot was working part-time for FSI when I was there for S92 training. I'd guess if you'd press FSI about it they'd say he's working part-time for PHI too, and they have nothing to do with it. I'm not buying it...

It may be a similar arrangement for the Sikorsky pilots too. I'm not buying that either. There's only one name for such people. We'll apply it liberally.

For the rest, thank you very much for the support.

[chc&proud]

For now, all pilots in the North Sea who attends simulator training on the S92A and the S76-series do so at FSI.

More than 90 % of the pilots are members of pilot unions which cooperate with OPEIU and the Local unions in PHI, AirLog, LSSI and Air Methods.

In what some americans perceive as the old and irrelevant part of the world called Europe it is at best considered a nuisance and uncivilized behaviour to interfer with lawfaul industrial action.

Many North Sea pilots will be shocked to find out that Sikorsky factory pilots as well as FSI are conducting themselves this way.

Hopefully it is all a misunderstanding, based on lack of communication.

[rjsquirrel]

from Rotorhub.com:

http://www.shephard.co.uk/Rotorhub/Default.aspx?Action=745115149&ID=a834c4d8-921b-42d5-825e-a5ef86b57f89

OPEIU Union disputes PHI claims as competitors provide aerial photos of grounded fleet

New Iberia, LA, 25 September 2006. The Office and Professional Employees International Union (OPEIU) Local 108 reported today that it affirms the accuracy of its previous announcements. PHI, Inc. reported in its September 22, 2006 press release that the union had made numerous false public statements regarding the company’s flight activity. The company goes on to claim that it has completed 80% of its normal flight volume. “It is ludicrous for the company to believe that the public will accept that its operations are near normal when 80% of its fleet sits tied to the ramp,” said local 108 president, Steve Ragin. Aerial photos provided to the union by the company’s competitors show 80% of the PHI fleet tied to the ramps.

“Support for our struggle continues to flow in from around the world,” said Ragin. “Support includes financial aid for our ‘strike and welfare’ fund as well as copies of letters and emails that are being sent to the company. The company continues its campaign of intimidation and illegal behavior against a workforce that has done nothing other than perform their jobs in a manner expected of the professionals that they are,” he added. Local 108’s strike is now in its sixth day.

Local 108 represents the domestic pilots of PHI, Inc. (NASDAQ: PHII) formerly Petroleum Helicopters, Inc. The company operates helicopters in support of offshore petroleum exploration and production in the Gulf of Mexico and Air Medical transportation services nationwide through its subsidiary, AirEvac Services and its PHI Air Medical business division.

For the most current information regarding Local 108 visit our website at local108pilots.org.

[SASless]

A win at PHI would set a new tone throughout the industry. Things are better in the gulf because of the unions, but they have a long way to go. I just spent the last two hitches offshore in a four man room with two toothless Boudreau dropouts and my mechanic. The mechanic and I were the two lowest paid in the room.

This is an excerpt from one of many folks who have been in contact since the strike began.



Reports also show ERA is using mandatory overtime and has been doing so for some time. They were having much difficulty meeting MMS Contract requirements since picking up that contract from Air Log.

[fone_effect]

What are the pay conditions and holiday entitlement like for these pilots? I’m interested as strike action seems to have been a bit of a shot in your own foot as many have now lost there jobs. I sympathise :( but just wonder if it was necessary.:confused:

[Decks]

I am a former PHI pilot who now flies for CHC in Ireland. I want to offer our support from the helicopter pilots union in Ireland. 5 years ago we moved to form a union and while the enviroment for such a move is much better in Ireland it was a nervy move for those involved. The results have been very favourable and the terms and conditions of our pilots, and their say in their own affairs have dramatically improved.

When I was at PHI I signed my union card and attended the meetings at the back of various secret hotels. The terms and conditions and the way management treats pilots in GOMEX is a world away from the way it happens here and we still get the job done ok. This is not entirely due to the union but they play a major role.

I am bewildered at the actions of some of the pilots who are strike breaking. They are quite simply idiots. At PHI, I (1700hrs) spent my first week after finishing training based 100 miles offshore and was way out of my depth...I dont think I slept the whole week. I simply would not not ride in the back of an L model with a 500hr pilot up front.

To all the pilots who did not take the soup... stick to your guns and keep your morals. Then you will always have the higher ground.

PS To Jack B...I wont put my name on here but a big hello to you.C.

[Flingwing207]

Reports also show ERA is using mandatory overtime and has been doing so for some time. They were having much difficulty meeting MMS Contract requirements since picking up that contract from Air Log.I'm an Era pilot, and I've heard no rumblings about (or even reports of) mandatory workover. To be honest, we're shorter on aircraft than we are on pilots. There's plenty of workover, but it's not mandatory. (I can't speak for the mechanic side.)

[B Sousa]

"I just spent the last two hitches offshore in a four man room with two toothless Boudreau dropouts and my mechanic. The mechanic and I were the two lowest paid in the room. "

This comment, although hilarious, is indicative of the Helicopter Industry from a Pilots standpoint.
Just about everyone who gets in the aircraft is financially better off than the Pilot. Many will say, well get another job.. Dont think thats the answer.
My sympathies go either way sometimes but the remark reminds me that I should support the Pilots.
I see it everyday in the tour industry. the guy in the next aircraft is making as much as I am, and hes a couple months from doing CFI stuff in a Robbie. Company policy is "If We keep them six months to a year we are happy"
Not whining as I am covered, just an example of what many here have to look forward too.

[Phone Wind]

Good luck to all the OPEIU pilots of PHI in your attempts to get a better deal. If you succeed you'll offer hope and encouragement to all those of us suffering cr*p pay and conditions everywhere. I hope you succeed, because if you do it will send a loud and clear message to pilots that union action can win a fairer deal and to managements that unfair action against unions is not the way to go. As always, jaw, jaw is better than war, war. :ok:

[SASless]

About 125 Strikers and supporters conducted a rally outside the PHI Main Office iin Lafayette. Union officials said that was approximately one third of the number of pilots on strike.




http://cmsimg.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=DG&Date=20060925&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=60925009&Ref=AR&MaxW=290

[chc&proud]

Having seen the way PHI is treating its pilots I personally will never seek employment with your company. Furthermore I will recommend to any pilot I know considering applying for employment at PHI to look elsewhere. Today there are many, many employment opportunities available with companies which treat their pilots fairly. It is a shame PHI is no longer one of those.

This message will most assuredly spread across the industry and PHI will soon be known as the company no one wishes to work for.

The world pilot community is a closely knit family which interconnect and meet everywhere everyday all around the world. Although our Norwegian helicopter pilots, employed in the Airlog - former CHC company Lufttransport, allready has strikken PHI from their list of potential future employers, their influence and opinion reaches broader and deeper than just the Norwegian national level. All Norwegian and European helicopter pilots and their varying unions have closely been monitoring the plight of the pilots of Chapter 108 and their just and fair demands to raise their status to a higher level, more just to their contribution in the chain of profits made in their industry.

If it is your company’s official policy to regard your pilots as the bottom of the barrel, will work for food, a dime a dozen type of employees, we would recommend that this is brought forward and publicized, so we all can adhere accordingly and regard you for what you are; a stepping stone or the last way out in times of no other alternative and no other skill. We’re sure you’ll still get applicants, and in accordance with your pilot policies, that should be a sufficient level of motivation to aim for to man your flights.

If everyone focuses on maximizing profits on the other parts expense – who will win in the end? Sharing the profits might be a more productive long term strategy.

I don’t expect you to care one way or another of our point of view, which of course is your prerogative, but you are now aware of the fact that we are monitoring how your pilots are treated and that this is not a local problem – the world is watching.

[rjsquirrel]

I don't know about you, chc&proud. It seems your rant to PHI management is not very wise. Aren't you "interfering with a strike"? Is your email an attempt to sway a party, and make the outcome go your way? This bold attempt by you to apply outside pressure on the strike is clearly interfering, and seems uncivilized, and is perhaps un-European.


;-)

[chc&proud]

Thank you for showing an interest in the posting, even though

I do not agree with your assumption. In my opinion it is perfectly allowable to support colleagues on strike whether this is done through writing letters of support, posting on pprune, participating in rallies or social activities or similar.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion on an issue. You might present your opinion in writing or verbally. Both in the US and Europe we supposedly have free speech, do we not?

There is a fundamental difference between voicing an opinion like the one posted and performing services for a company which is in the middle of industrial action. This is officially called strike breaking, and is frowned upon worldwide, regardless of skin color, religion, culture or language.

Consequences of participating in strike breaking activities are hard to predict, and will vary, depending on the situation. Still, it is highly recommendable to avoid being classified in this category.

OPEIU, through Local 108 are represented on the the helicopter committee of the International Federation of Airline Pilots Association. Norway presently holds the Chaimanship, and Local 108 the Vice Chairmanship. So, we cooperate with our friends to the best of our ability year round.

The mail in question was signed with the full name and poastal address of the pilot in question. It is one point of view from over here.

[SASless]

RJ,

The history of the Gulf of Mexico is not one that the American Helicopter Industry can brag about. The cut throat, under bid your competition to keep them from getting business (no matter the bottom line....market share is all that counts) attitude combined with a "sweat shop" mentality held by all of the old style management worked together to deprive the ground and pilot staff from enjoying proper compensation for the knowledge, skill, and risks they faced in their employment.

That same attitude of doing everything on the cheap prevented necessary infrastructure from being built, safety was ignored, and in general....it was and still remains a miserable place to work.

Throw in the fact, a great number of combat experienced pilots returned from Vietnam in a very short interval drove the wages down as well. The companies capitalized on that and rode rough shod over the people.

Unions finally came to be because of that very obnoxious attitude and treatment by management. Our European brothers not having the burden to way too many pilots and far too few jobs....organized before the GOM guys.

We see many safety innovations and attention to compliance with safety rules that are driven by the unions and not the operators and oil companies.

The Bob Suggs School of Helicopter Management has held back real meaningful progress in the Gulf of Mexico and thus the entire United States. With the creation of unions by the pilots, finally the guys and gals in the cockpit seats are having a seat at the table when safety is being discussed instead of just the operators and vendors.

I for one support the Union in their efforts to raise wages and improve the work environment which translates as a win to all pilots across the country.

I am not a Union pilot and have had management experience in my working career thus I am not a left wing socialist but there comes a time when good men have to take a stand. My greatest hope is the PHI pilots will achieve their goal which in time will go a long way in finally showing the Dinosauers from the Bob Suggs School, that times have changed and they must too.

Thus RJ, since Union Brothers, much like fellow Masons do, stick together in times of crisis.....I would suggest all Union pilots have an interest in this affair....along with every other working pilot in the Industry.

Give'em Hell Guys!

[Boudreaux Bob]

I seen this today. It proves Union pay raises make other non-union companys pay better. So much for them that say otherwise.

Letter from management
Author: ERA Date: 9/25/2006 6:26:36 PM

Very interesting letter from Mr. Osborne. Please pay extra attention to the parts I underlined. Keep the faith PHI pilots. You will prevail!


TO: All Era Helicopters Employees



FROM: Neill Osborne



SUBJECT: Comments about the Work Action at Phi



DATE: September 23, 2006



It is with some reluctance that I offer a few words about a competitor’s labor issues. I’m hesitant to discuss the current traumatic situation at Phi only because like most of you, I have many friends within that company that are either not working today or feeling the emotional pain of working while their long term associates are on strike. This is a dilemma that I wouldn’t wish on anyone.



Let me say once again that Era will continue to do all within its power to remain a union free employer. To me this means offering compensation at the top of our segment of the industry so as to consistently remain competitive with the other major operators. We believe we are doing this and as stated in my last update, we are analyzing the most recent changes to our competitors’ pay levels and will soon announce results of these reviews. Remaining union free also means trying very hard to be totally fair with all that work with us at Era. We want to provide the safest work environment we possibly can as this should be understood to be the highest form of appreciation for our co-workers. New aircraft with the latest safety features and maintenance facilities with the latest in support equipment are two of our major goals, and we are making good progress with both.



Aside from the obvious struggle to ascertain the terms of employment between the pilots and the company, another of the potential results of the labor dispute at Phi will likely be a re-evaluation by some of their customers about contracting for service from a union provider. Era has a number of customers that use our services as well as Phi’s. We are likely to provide services, on a very limited basis, for some of these customers. We all know that we are highly committed already, so we certainly will not have many aircraft to offer but if current customers want to expand their contract with us we are obliged to attempt to comply. Most of us that have worked in the Gulf of Mexico area for some time understand the distinct difference in the service we can provide today as opposed to more stable times a few years ago. Most of our customers know that because of the increase in activity caused by last year’s hurricanes and the increased oil prices, we simply have very few spare aircraft. This situation will likely continue for some time so we must do all we can to maximize availability by having the parts we need when we need them. This is being worked on diligently by supply and maintenance management.



Thanks to each of you for making Era a successful company and thanks for making our company a great place to work.

[rjsquirrel]

SASless,

You mistake my posts as not supporting the strike, which is not correct. Also, you think that I do not support unions as good for worker pay and rights, which is also not correct.

You do this because you think that when I kid chc&proud for his rabid attack on those who continue to work as "interfering with a strike" while he sends money to the strikers as if that were not "interfering with the strike" it is a joke.

The strike is important to pilots everywhere. It is a stong-arm tactic by the pilots to win demands - rightful demands, I think. The silly attitude that it is "uncivilized" for some to walk thru the picket line is as silly as thinking that sending money to the strikers is not interfering.

In this power play, we should support the pilots, because we want the power for all of us, but we shouldn't cloak this power play as some kind of holier-than-thou crap like chc&proud is doing. Is he also acting hatefully to the mechanics who are going to work every day? How about the line crews? How about the union oil workers who are going to work thru those picket lines?

His attitude is a poorly thought one, and that is what I am pounding on!

If fact, aren't you the conservative Republican and basically anti-union, like your beloved party? ;-0

[chc&proud]

Ladies and Gentlemen
All 5 pilot unions in Europe are members of their respective national Airline Pilots Associations, all of which are affiliated with the International Federation of Airline Pilot's Association.

We are also members of the European Cockpit Association - ECA.

Our US colleagues are not members of US ALPA. Still, OPEIU is doing a great job to assist the pilots in Local 102, 107, 108 and 109. The European pilot unions have a good working relationship with OPEIU and our US colleagues in general.

In times of crisis, IFALPA members can call for assistance worldwide from more than 100.000 pilot members. Assistance is available in several shapes and forms. some of which may one of the following:

* Request for maximum competition: In case of strike action, a pilot union may request that competitors fly the contracts of the company on strike, to minimize the damage to third parties.

* Request for mutual assistance: A pilot union may request that all pilots stay away from the contracts, for various reasons.

* Request for reqruitment ban: A pilot union may request that IFALPA goes public and advices pilots worldwide that a company is engaged in industrial action, so please do not accept a position with this particular company.

Some people may consider this to involve interfering with a strike. We do not. The pilot unions will typically be the weaker party when a strike is ongoing.

The company or corporation more likely than not has a war chest to support the fight agains the union, while the striking pilots may be left in a bind, having problems paying bills and feeding their families.

The only sensible and decent thing to do is to stay away from the battlefield. This ensures that the parties stay focused, maximizing the odds of finding a solution to the unresolved issues.

Either you support the union in times of crisis, or you do not support the union. There is no neutral middle ground. When the crisis has struck the company, leaving everyone hanging in mid air, the time has some to show your true colors: Forget petty disagreements, focus, shut up, support each other, support the pilot representatives in the search for a solution.

Helicopter pilot unions in the US and Europe have supported each other for years. I am certain we will keep on supporting each other in the time to come.

[SASless]

RJ,

I am a conservative Republican no doubt.....but I am a "Helicopter Pilot" right down to the very bottom of my worn out combat Boots!



The latest Advertiser News article....


http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060926/BUSINESS/609260345/1046

[diethelm]

It seems very interesting to me that most people want high wages for themselves but low prices from Wal Mart. They seem to be mutually exclusive.

[GLSNightPilot]

For most people, that may be true. Personally, I will drive further and pay higher prices just to avoid WalMart. I'm just not that attracted to cheap Chinese crap, and that's all you can find at WalMart. In fact, because of WalMart, it's hard to find anything else anywhere.

[SASless]

Funny thing Diet.....Sam's Club (owned by Walmart) and Costco are very competitive on price but wages and benefits at Costco are much higher than at Walmart. (Plus one does not have to do the "Squiggly Dance" and company Cheer in the morning.

Low prices and low prices do not have to run together....one can have low prices and still have good wages. The key is in volume buying and effieciency within the operation.

[ron-powell]

http://klfy.com/Global/story.asp?S=5460220
September 26, 2006
PHI Strike Announcement Expected in the Next Few Days
PHI says there could be an announcement about the strike within the next few days.
Meanwhile, the picketing continued Tuesday.
More than 150 pilots were seen picketing in front of PHI on Monday.
Workers say they were forced to take these measures, after unsatisfactory results of more than two years of negotiations.
Representatives from the pilots' union say they've been in talks with PHI on several issues, including back pay, low pay, and too much overtime.

[GLSNightPilot]

All the other companies are paying more than PHI. All of them. Temporarily, PHI is paying more to try to attract replacements and appease the pilots who crossed, but that's temporary. PHI's 'last and best offer' is still below every other GOM operator, everything considered. A large number of PHI pilots have already gone to other operators, before the strike, and several since. PHI has two choices - settle or go out of business. I hope for the former, but if the latter happens, there will be a company or companies flying those machines, and they will need experienced pilots. 200 hour Robbie pilots can't fly as 135 PICs.

[chc&proud]

On the Local 108 web site you will find a note outlining how you can go about supporting our good colleagues who have been forced to engage in industrial action by PHI management. The text quote below is not complete. Check out http://www.local108pilots.org:
---------------------

Financial Assistance Fund
After examining the legal issues involved in this undertaking, the process for creating and administering this fund is very simple. Any donations that anyone wants to make for the express purpose of helping our fellow pilots get through this difficult time of financial need should do the following.

Make a check payable to the OPEIU Local 108. Mail it to the business office at 2617 Northside Rd., Ste. 900, New Iberia, Louisiana 70563-0953. On the note line, insure you earmark the check expressly for the Financial Aid Fund (FAF will do). When you mail the check, enclose a note telling us who the check is from, what it is for (FAF), and whether it is for Oil and Gas, EMS, or as needed.

In addition, for those who might want to make a donation and have it charged to a credit card, you may do so by using the donate button located on the right side of this page. If the donation is meant for a specific place, please make note of this in the comments in the payment section so we can better track all donations and insure they go where they are intended.
--------------------

[Drooping Turns]

Heard this week that PHI is paying each non striking pilot a $1000 per hitch bonus for staying on the job and that workover/overtime is at the rate of 200% until further notice.

DT

[B Sousa]

"Make a check payable to the OPEIU Local 108. Mail it to the business office at 2617 Northside Rd., Ste. 900, New Iberia, Louisiana 70563-0953."

Heres where I get cornfused about these wonderful Unions. I mean I see them come onto Vegas in their Lear Jets whatever for big "meetings" etc from all over the place. Longshoremen, Machinists etc..
Now this is posted for "Donations in support"?? where did all those dues go, why not sell a couple jets?? Or is the OPEIU broke? I seriously doubt that. Time for them to take care of those who pay to be taken care of.

Dont get me wrong, I would love for someone to get me a pay increase, just something does not smell right. Someone fill in the blanks for me......

[chc&proud]

It is ill adviced to take management up on the offer to grab some extra money to participate in strike breaking activity. The best possible advice available in the current situation would be to stay away.

Keep in mind that the aviation industry is in the middle of a worldwide shortage when it comes to qualifed pilots.

* Do not worry about getting a pilot position. Companies are hiring constantly.

* Do worry about having your career stained by acts considered treason by thousands of your colleagues.

Keep in mind that the industrial action undertaken by Local 108 is in accordance with all relevant legislation in the US. The pilots did try to find common ground through negotiations and meditation for approximately 2 1/2 years.

[HillerBee]

On the website is the 'old' contract. Interesting to read, and indeed not the best. I'm curious however what there asking for now.

http://www.local108pilots.org

[GLSNightPilot]

We have no jets. We have nothing but ourselves. The strike benefits which will eventually kick in are a little over $100/week. That's not enough to live on. The fund was initiated by those of us who have extra funds put away for this strike, to assist the new guys who haven't had time to get into decent financial shape from the enormous :mad: :} wages paid by PHI. Some have family members with medical problems, some have wives nearing delivery, and other expenses. The intent of the fund is for Local 108 members to contribute voluntarily, and if others want to, they may. We're not asking for it, but some other locals have contributed money. Most of us have said we don't intend to accept the strike benefits, and prefer that they go to those who need them more.

Slurs such as B. Sousa makes are not appreciated, nor are they anywhere close to the truth.

[212man]

"Heres where I get cornfused about these wonderful Unions. I mean I see them come onto Vegas in their Lear Jets whatever for big "meetings" etc from all over the place. Longshoremen, Machinists etc.."

You want to get really confused: watch a Gufstream V pitch up in Nigeria for an evangelism crusade: how much Naira does it take to fill a tank? obviously less than it takes for a toupee wearing evangelist to make a swift buck!!!!

[B Sousa]

"Slurs such as B. Sousa makes are not appreciated"

Not a slur by any means. I just see unions in a different light. If you look back in this mess you will note that as a Pilot, I support the Pilots and wish we as tour toads had someone who would look out for us.

So dont get so defensive, you have other things to worry about rather than a QUESTION about YOUR union....
AND it is true about OTHER Unions. many have tons of money, maybe they could show some "brotherly love" Think about it.


" watch a Gufstream V pitch up in Nigeria for an evangelism crusade: how much Naira does it take to fill a tank? obviously less than it takes for a toupee wearing evangelist to make a swift buck!!!!"

Not to hijack things, but dont get me going there. Spent some time north of SA and see it happen daily. They will make such a difference.....Bullsxxx. They make money from a bunch of folks to make them "feel good." Pemba Mozambique was my best example... Im Saving it for some other thread.

[SASless]

The PHI Pilot's Union web site reports there are two "Union Buster" consulting firms working for PHI.

They include the notorius "Homer Bob" Deakins.....Christ on a Crutch guys.....talk about a sleezy rascal! :eek:

He was also hired by Air Logistics during their most recent CBA fight and also worked with the operator(s) during the original unionization attempts. Some of our posters have had first hand dealings wtih ol' Homer Bob and should be able to attest to his ways.:ooh:

Homer Bob has a very long history in fighting Unions....and has gotten rich from it...not that he has had much success of late.:rolleyes:

The Air Log CBA thread that ran here had much mention of his reputation and activities.

[NickLappos]

How does a "Union Buster" work? I think some of those Ex-Army PHI pilots have busted a few things, and might prove to be tough nuts to crack!

[Decks]

Nick,
You must have been in both Stavanger and Fourchon.... there is no comparison in pilot pay and conditions.
Any pilot from the Gulf who dosent believe in Unions needs to visit Aberdeen or Stavanger for a day. Year 1 captains pay in Aberdeen is now circa 126,000 USD. Year 17 is around 152,000 USD. And you can thank the unions for it.:D
Decks.

[SASless]

Nick,

It is odd how a guy drawing a W-4 or W-5 retired pay check with Tri-care Medical benefits sees things as compared to a guy in his mid-30's with no pension and medical benefits when he is working and then must pay for them out of pocket.

Some of our "retired Army" comrades-in-arms who are so used to being treated like second class citizens for 20 plus years just fail to see the need for them to be out walking the line. That has been the short coming of the PHI and GOM union movement all along.

Most "Ex-Army" guys fully understand the situation and are leaders in that movement.

[Chopter]

I just received this picture of PHI´s base in Houma, LA.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7808/img05981qb6.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img05981qb6.jpg)

[B Sousa]

"Year 1 captains pay in Aberdeen is now circa 126,000 USD. Year 17 is around 152,000 USD. And you can thank the unions for it. "

Good coins for some hazardous conditions. What are the tax rates on all that money. I know the guys up in Skandahoovia make a lot but the "Cradle to Grave" governments slap them silly with taxes.

[rick1128]

Many of the younger guys coming up really do not understand the situation. I was talking with a young flight instructor about the strike and what was going on. His comment was "If they don't like it, why don't they get another job?". The companies would love that, keeping most of the guys on 1st and2nd year pay and treating them like "do-do" . It is a whole different attitude from the guys trying to get into the regionals and the airlines. And this attitude seems to be quite prevalent amoung the new guys presently working as CFI's and at small companies. And that is something that will need to be worked on over the next few years.

[NickLappos]

decks and sasless,

What I asked, and you both get a F for English because you failed in your answer, was:

How does a "union buster" work? Really. Honest.

[tottigol]

Mr. Lappos, a so called Union Buster is usually a legal firm specializing in labor laws and experienced in all those facets of labor that work in favor of the employer.
Services from such a firm are rendered during the unionizing phase and throughout the presence of a labor union within a company.

There is a book in circulation titled "Confessions of a Union Buster" wrote by one of such lawyers.

While there is usually a certain degree of "reality distorsion" coming from both sides, the company carries an advantage most often than not, simply because they have the power to fire at will in most cases (but not after representation is voted in).

Workers, especially the younger ones or the most junior in the seniority scale are very sensible to veiled and not so veiled threats coming from the employer, particularly if they were hired after most of the unfovarable conditions leading to collective representation have been removed.

[SASless]

Now...Now...Nick!

As I have posted....a few of our posters have dealt with Marse Homer Bob hisself and in time they will in all liklihood recount their experiences with a known individual of the "union busting" brigades.

Go rent "Norma Rae" for a good primer....and a pretty young lady in some proper blue jeans.

In the mean time.... type google.com, hit enter, type "union busting" and see where you wind up. I dun better in English than I ever dun in Computers 101.:8

[helopat]

Good coins for some hazardous conditions. What are the tax rates on all that money. I know the guys up in Skandahoovia make a lot but the "Cradle to Grave" governments slap them silly with taxes.

Not here to comment on the strike, but B Sousa has brought up a good point. The Skandahoovians DO pay a huge chunk of tax...BUT...they pay nothing for health care, their kids schooling, etc because the "Cradle to Grave" government actually DOES something FOR THE PEOPLE with all that tax money...so they may not take as much home, but its not quite apples and apples.

HeloPat

[chc&proud]

The correct spelling for my little part of the neighborhood is Scandinavia, just to help some of you posters out a bit. It is always important to show respect to people from other countries and cultures by doing your homework when it comes to geography, political systems and stuff like that.

In Norway our annual earnings are taxed heavily. Still, when you include free schools, free university, first class public health care for all citizens, the public pension systems, unemployment benefits etc. etc. then the picture looks good, from whichever angle you view it.

A rough interpretation of public statistics might indicate approx. 30% less purchasing power for $1 in Norway compared to the US. This does depend on your family situation, as a family with 2 kids will benefit heavily from the establisehd systems, and rightfully so.

When the average earnings for all pilots is above $200.000, this might by some still be considered not too bad. Please do your own math, Ladies and Gentlemen. This figure does include the total earnings, including overtime, offshore allowances, voluntary workover, per diem, insurance premiums covered by the employer

People with lack of motivation or interest might want to distort the picture for their own purpose, to create a poor impression of pilot unions. The fact of the matter is the following:


90 % or more of the pilots flying offshore or SAR in Ireland, the UK, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway are union members.
The companies are all profitable and well reputed.
The pilots in general have the best terms and conditions in the industry.
All companies have Collective Labor Agreements with the pilot unions.


The pilots of Local 108 are in the middle of a struggle which will benefit us all in the long run. They command the utmost respect from pilots worldwide.
With the assistance of OPEIU and their colleagues in Local 107, the highly skilled professionals of Local 108 are working to make the GOM a better place, both with regards to terms and conditions and also with regards to operational safety standards.

You have to take a stand these days: Either you support the pilots, or you support management and forces hostile to pilot unions.
Please, when you look back at your career, make sure you were on the side of the pilots, working for a better tomorrow.

[SASless]

Nick,

Here's a book review for you....talks of a "confession" written by Michael Leavitt who was in his own words, a "union buster".

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1132/is_n2_v46/ai_15515998/pg_2

[tottigol]

I am firmly on the side of the Local 108 Pilots, as a matter of fact a token of my monetary support when out to the guys on the lines.
Former ANPAC and now Local 109.:ok:

[B Sousa]

"The correct spelling for my little part of the neighborhood is Scandinavia, just to help some of you posters out a bit. It is always important to show respect to people from other countries and cultures by doing your homework when it comes to geography, political systems and stuff like that."

So Touchie.......Got it from my mom she used it jokingly.She was from Tonsberg, Grandpa was from Trondheim........ bet many folks wouldnt catch the humor it if your name was Quisling.

[chc&proud]

Quisling:
This is not a categorization used lightly in my country. I do not believe I have ever met an honourable man who have joked around with this term before.

During the second world war Norway was occupied by Germany, and was kind of run by a man named Vidkun Quisling, with the blessing of Adolf Hitler. He was executed, having been found guilty of war crimes and high treason after the Germans capitulated.

In Norway the surname Quisling implies that you are a traitor to your countrymen and your country.

Which group of pilots would fit into this category?

Good night to all good colleagues, I need to get some sleep before our next flight.

[Jayrow Pilot]

B Sousa

CHC and Proud does seem very sensitive about any light hearted remarks. Maybe he's more "proud" than we think.

We are getting off thread, too much serious stuff here to let it degenerate in my opinion. What happens in PHI could set the stage for other pay negotiations.

[HillerBee]

What's going on right now? Are there any talks at all? Did PHI come out of their Ivory Tower?

And pilots should support pilots, without any doubt.

[SASless]

I have been led to believe PHI's explanation why they refuse to pay "Full Retro Pay" would insult a Moron with its incredibility.

Also heard almost one hundred pilots resigned from the Union prior to the strike over the handling of the situation by the leadership. Major complaint being a fair number of members wished to "vote" for/against acceptance of the company's Best and Final Offer but the leadership held off saying it was not the offer that should be accepted.

As in all of these affairs......the truth is somewhere in the middle of all the hype.

It sounds like about half of the pilots are on strike thus the union position is weak as compared to a full walkout. The company is confronted with recruiting, hiring, training, and fielding the necessary replacements before the customers start crying and demanding something be done.

The 64 Dollar question is how much slack are the other operators going to be able to pick up in the meanwhile.....and how many customers will go elsewhere as a result.

One recurring theme seems to be the younger pilots see the older pilots as wanting a pound of flesh for the past bad treatment they have received.

If that is true.....someone in management sure messed up. That should have been identified as one of the things the new owner would want to find a cure for to further weaken the Union. Perhaps they were not interested in either seeking peace and promoting a harmonious relationship or tried and the hard feelings continued notwithstanding the management's efforts.

[B Sousa]

"B Sousa
CHC and Proud does seem very sensitive about any light hearted remarks. Maybe he's more "proud" than we think"

Tell him, not me. Majority of the folks here are a bit thin skinned. I brought it up when his sensitivity alarm went bonkers. He neednt go into history lessons, just understand the point." Seems the trouble with the "English" Language is that many of us cant understand it. He should read my posts more s l o w l y. There is no offense to anyone mentioned.

Now whats the latest at PHI??

[GLSNightPilot]

Now whats the latest at PHI??
You mean Faux News hasn't reported it? Then it must not be important. Or doesn't exist.

[chc&proud]

Good morning Gentlemen
Sorry if you feel I wasted prescious space on this thread. I'll do my best to stay on topic, as I'm sure we all will.

The important matter at hand is to support our colleagues at PHI. Members of Local 108 is fighting for their careers and for the future of the industry.

This being for the most part an anonymous forum, it's obvious that some posters use it for the purpose of trying to undermine ther legal strike action. In the long run you hirt not only the pilots, but also the industry as a whole, including yourself.

The activity levels in the petroleum industry, the oil price and the number of pilots retiring in the years to come has led to a serious shortage of qualified pilots. It is also leading to operators lookung into reducing their entry level qualification requirements. Flying single pilot in the GOM with 500 hrs. under your belt from an R22 or similar would make me feel extremely uncomfortable as a passenger.

Local 108 is addressing the need to adjust terms and conditions to a more professional level. This would increase the odds of the operators being able to attract and retain qualified pilots in the GOM. As it is today, it's too easy to find more attractive alternatives for the younger generation.

Consequently, some of you should reevaluate your focus and your loyalties. Support for Local 108 in fact means supporting all of us.

[HillerBee]

http://www.auradirect.com/PHI.html

[rjsquirrel]

chc&proud,
I think you are wrong when you say, "...... it's obvious that some posters use it for the purpose of trying to undermine ther legal strike action. In the long run you hirt not only the pilots, but also the industry as a whole, including yourself."

I think you can't find a single post that does not support the strike!

Hillerbee, great site, whoever wrote that page really did it well, the story is told straight and without a "chip" on the shoulder.

[chc&proud]

HillerBee,
Thanks for making available that informative presentation. Overall, it seems to hit the nail on the head.

This is definetely the worst of times to apply for a position with PHI. The company will need lots of new pilots in the years to come, and so will AirLog,
ERA and most operators worldwide.

It is very sound advice to any and all pilots looking for employment within the GOM to avoid sending his application to PHI. Instead get in touch with the other operators.

[rjsquirrel]

One thought on the way the strike will raise pay is that the pay in the US probably will never equal that in socialist countries where Unions have much more political pull. There is a natural partnership between unions and socialists, especially in countries where the oil and gas are owned by the state. The state-owned oil companies let out contracts not with free-market principles but by political power, so that their pay for the workers is not directly tied to profits. In other words, pay in a socialist society has little to do with a company's viability, instead local political pull has everything to do with pay.
There is no way that a helo pilot is worth 200,000 per year in a free market, face it, but if the unions can tie up the jobs, anything is possible.

Read chc&proud's posts as you would a communist organizer's, because that is about half true, guys, since socialist countries like Norway are more than half way to where a full communist country is, at least economically. Where they shine is that they retain human rights, of course, so the blend is not all bad, but taking economic lessons from Norway is not necessarily valid.

Still, PHI pilots need more pay, and the strike is a good one for us as a whole, just don't expect that the political power the strike gives pilots will lead to such high salaries. Especially if we keep electing Republicans in the US!

[Project Pilot FH1100]

Not to pick on rjsquirrel, but he says: There is no way that a helo pilot is worth 200,000 per year in a free marketAnd with an attitude like that, we never will, either :ok:

I'll always be puzzled at the low self-esteem and self-worth exhibited by many helicopter pilots. It's just sad that so many of us sell ourselves so short. When we were in the OPEIU organizing drive at PHI, there were those self-anointed financial "experts" who claimed, "We'll NEVER make $100,000 per year." That is correct. If you believe that you are not worth $100,000 per year you will never make anything close to that amount. And if there are enough "you's" out there, neither will the rest of us.

But I always asked, "Why not?"

Me? I believe that I'm worth $1,000,000 per year. Can I get that flying helicopters? Don't know. But I can try. And if standing together with my fellow pilots is one way to do it, then it's worth a shot. I do not see anything unethical, immoral or inherently wrong about doing so either. Unions are legal in this country, and the former Pope of the Roman Catholic Church (John Paul II) even endorsed professional unions - so I'm square with God on the concept too. My conscience is clear.

See, I do not know how much the oil companies will pay per hour for a helicopter in the GOM. But I think it's wrong to make any assumptions about it. The only thing we can assume is that the oil companies in the GOM are not about to go back to using boats. It's simply not going to happen for many reasons, all of them associated with money.

If PHI raised their pilot starting salaries to $75,000 per year right now, all of the other operators would have to do likewise. Neill and Jerry would likely have heart attacks anticipating how they were going to break the rate-increase news to their customers.

(By the way, someone in an earlier post inquired about the billions of dollars that the oil companies make in annual profit. Think again. Look at Shell Oil and see the billions they make in QUARTERLY profit.)

[GLSNightPilot]

The oil companies are making more profit than they can deal with. They're trying to hide it, because the net profit, after the little taxes they pay, and after everything, is greater than the gross national product of most countries in the world. They are netting billions of dollars per quarter, individually, and many tens of billions in the aggregate. At least one of the majors in the GOM does not even break out helicopter costs separately, because it's such a small part of their expenses. They will pay much, much more, and not even flinch at it. It's just a business expense, and makes them look better to the consumer when they show it. The helicopter operators could put starting pay at $500,000, and still put rates at a level to make a huge profit.

[SASless]

Ah, but we are not talking about 200,000 USD salaries here.....more like 5,000,000 USD in retroactive pay back to the renewal date on the CBA. That is a far cry from the pie in the sky numbers. A small amount of money in reality and a huge amount of EGO for one individual.

I agree pilots are their own worse enemy when it comes to pay and benefits....but here is a group of pilots that are willing to stand up. It is a crying shame the other half of the group did not have the brains to see how they benefit from those that stand up.

Air Log's pilots demonstrated what happens when you have a solidarity number in the high 90's come time to walk.

The PHI showdown amounts to a gamble by both sides in light of the divided union membership. Right now, the gamble is going to be won by how long the working pilots can go without time off. Can PHI recruit, hire, train, and deploy enough qualified pilots before the current working pilots burn out.

Safety problems are going to crop up before long....hopefully the FAA is monitoring this very closely.

I do wonder if the Oil Companies will now decide the minimum hour and experience requirements they demand for pilots will remain in place.

Since the oil companies view safety (or the lack of...) as being a risk versus cost concept.....I will wager they start cutting those minimums to assist PHI keep the aircraft going.

Historical high profits and the oil companies will still refuse to spend the extra money by demanding PHI settle.....is my forecast. They do not want to see any Unions show up at their workplace either.

[GLSNightPilot]

SASless, they already have. The majors apparently no longer have any experience requirements for pilots. The one who melted an S76 engine on a drillship had about 10 hours total in the aircraft. It's amazing how quickly safety becomes a non-issue. They talk a good game, but they really don't give a rat's a$$ about it when push comes to shove. If their employees are injured or killed, it's only a small financial loss, covered by insurance. Safety is only something to be used as eyewash, public relations material, and to justify the jobs of those in charge of HS&E.

[SASless]

Funny how that works.....:mad:

Now as to the FAA Approved Training Manual....has that been edited of late and signed off by the PIO for PHI?

Normally, each little requirement no matter how small had to be completed and documented.....has the FAA jumped onto the band wagon and allowed PHI to excise the majority of those requirements?

Such things as "Dunker Training" for example....:uhoh:

Look at the bright side GLS....at least they have plenty of spare aircraft to fill in for the U/S machines.

[madman1145]

".. since socialist countries like Norway are more than half way to where a full communist country is, at least economically. Where they shine is that they retain human rights, of course, so the blend is not all bad, but taking economic lessons from Norway is not necessarily valid .."

.. we can't all have a leader that is a Texas born cowboy with smoking guns and an IQ below normal human average, now can we :suspect: ..
And we are not all socialist, in your eyes I suppose nearly communist, in Europe - far far from it ..
And I have my doubt that you have enough knowledge to know how things works in Europe, like saleries, licitations etc. - you are very, ehmm, "colorful" ..

But I agree that you can't compare European saleries with American, the countries systems, healthcare, education etc. is just too different to be able to do so - For example, the European helicopter education is much more expensive than the American, so in the end we will have to pay more back on our loans, ie. higher paycheck. That is after we paid 35-60% in taxes (depending on each European state) ..

Back to the case, I hope PHi's pilots gets what they deserve ..

- madman

NB: I'm not from Norway, but close by ..

[northseaspray]

rjsquirrel;

I personally know more than one pilot in the northsea, that makes more than $250000USD a year, all included. And they are most certainly worth every penny, in my opinion.

When the PHI pilots have won their battle, every pilot in the GOM is a winner, of course also those individuals outside the union. Just hope that the scab don't feel too bad taking that extra money they obviously never wanted in the first place...

[HillerBee]

One thought on the way the strike will raise pay is that the pay in the US probably will never equal that in socialist countries where Unions have much more political pull. There is a natural partnership between unions and socialists, especially in countries where the oil and gas are owned by the state. The state-owned oil companies let out contracts not with free-market principles but by political power, so that their pay for the workers is not directly tied to profits. In other words, pay in a socialist society has little to do with a company's viability, instead local political pull has everything to do with pay.
There is no way that a helo pilot is worth 200,000 per year in a free market, face it, but if the unions can tie up the jobs, anything is possible.
Read chc&proud's posts as you would a communist organizer's, because that is about half true, guys, since socialist countries like Norway are more than half way to where a full communist country is, at least economically. Where they shine is that they retain human rights, of course, so the blend is not all bad, but taking economic lessons from Norway is not necessarily valid.
Still, PHI pilots need more pay, and the strike is a good one for us as a whole, just don't expect that the political power the strike gives pilots will lead to such high salaries. Especially if we keep electing Republicans in the US!

rjsquirrel

The assumptions you make about 'socialist' countries are absolutely ridiculous. There are no socialist countries in Europe, only democtratic one's. There are also almost no real communist countries in the World anymore.

Unions in the US have always been very powerfull and the US is much more Union run than any country in Europe.

However I don't think we have to go into debate about US or Europe, the issue here is a strike by PHI pilots who are unionized. As I said before it's the pilots we should support.

A last word about a 'free' market. In a free market man can ask what he wants. Personally I don't see why a lawyer has to make a $1,000 per hour, or Michael Eichner (former Disney) $126 million a year, but that's your free market.

[rjsquirrel]

HillerBee,
Before you roll on the floor, it might be a good idea to actually know what you are talking about. You say "democracy" as a rebuttal to "socialist" as if they were opposing terms, which is as close as if you said "apple" and "outboard motor".
By socialist, I mean that the State owns or operates significant companies and economic entiries, such as the state-owned oil companies, medical systems, transport systems, airlines, aerospace manufacturers, utilities, in fact - practically EVERYTHING in your "democracies."

When the State owns this stuff, it decides what to do, what to sell for and how much to pay based on politics, not economics.

I stand by what I said, do not expect an essentially free-market US to respond the way a socialist country does to political power plays, like strikes.

[HillerBee]

HillerBee,
Before you roll on the floor, it might be a good idea to actually know what you are talking about. You say "democracy" as a rebuttal to "socialist" as if they were opposing terms, which is as close as if you said "apple" and "outboard motor".
By socialist, I mean that the State owns or operates significant companies and economic entiries, such as the state-owned oil companies, medical systems, transport systems, airlines, aerospace manufacturers, utilities, in fact - practically EVERYTHING in your "democracies."
When the State owns this stuff, it decides what to do, what to sell for and how much to pay based on politics, not economics.
I stand by what I said, do not expect an essentially free-market US to respond the way a socialist country does to political power plays, like strikes.

You obviously know nothing about Europe and it's different countries.

[tottigol]

HillerBee,
Before you roll on the floor, it might be a good idea to actually know what you are talking about. You say "democracy" as a rebuttal to "socialist" as if they were opposing terms, which is as close as if you said "apple" and "outboard motor".
By socialist, I mean that the State owns or operates significant companies and economic entiries, such as the state-owned oil companies, medical systems, transport systems, airlines, aerospace manufacturers, utilities, in fact - practically EVERYTHING in your "democracies."
When the State owns this stuff, it decides what to do, what to sell for and how much to pay based on politics, not economics.
I stand by what I said, do not expect an essentially free-market US to respond the way a socialist country does to political power plays, like strikes.
Just like Halliburton and Irak?
Matter of fact RJ, the USA are not a democracy in the sense most people mean it, so where are you going to find one?
I think you've done enough to hijack this thread into a US vs them confrontation taking it away from its original meaning.
It's clear that there are several sides to the event that's taking place in the Gulf, and it's apparent what side you are on.
A new hire being brought to the market with far less than the average required experience naturally tends to gravitate towards is/her employers, specially if he/she knows nothing about the struggles that brought the union about in the first place. If 108 fails at any point they shall have to see where their communication policy failed, and not just in the time immediately preceding the work action.


Break.
Madman, what we say in the US is that the Cowboy in question has an IQ smaller than his shoe size (American).

[B Sousa]

".. we can't all have a leader that is a Texas born cowboy with smoking guns and an IQ below normal human average, now can we .."

Madman
Good point there, but if you did maybe, it would help. We may get hit from the outside, but you folks are getting hit from within....

"Madman, what we say in the US is that the Cowboy in question has an IQ smaller than his shoe size (American)."

Tottigol,
Statements like that is what the term Quisling came from. You can always renounce your US Citizenship, if you have one.

Are we back to the problem in the topic yet??

[tottigol]

No, freedom of speech last time I checked.

Besides I was just putting down the exact version of the sentence.

Feel free to cross the lines B.

This thread is threading dangerous grounds, no pun intended.
Subjects like the one of a strike can easily escalate to personal confrontation and some can use them as a trampoline to promote their personal agendas.

The outcome of this work action can and will affect every single helicopter pilot working in the USA, as such I feel enticed to openly side with my colleagues walking in the Gulf.

[madman1145]

".. Madman
Good point there, but if you did maybe, it would help. We may get hit from the outside, but you folks are getting hit from within.... .."

You lost me - thought this Thread was about PHi and their strike - what is getting hit from the out and inside and by what ??

- madman

[B Sousa]

Madman,
It was in reference to your comment above. The point of which seems to have been lost on you. If in fact your from over the pond......forget it.

Anyway this sounds as if the stirke may get nasty as most big ones do in the states. Dont be surprised if some serious stuff happens if some of these guys have a family in need of food. Based on what was earlier mentioned that could be sooner than later.
Not being involved in it and NOT crossing any lines, but as an observer who would like to see some pay increases. I would hope that a company supposedly losing their Knickers daily from loss of revenue, would try and do something, like have a 24 hour/day sit down even if its to drink bottled water across the table from the other side. AT LEAST talk.

"The outcome of this work action can and will affect every single helicopter pilot working in the USA, as such I feel enticed to openly side with my colleagues walking in the Gulf."

Tot
That I doubt. You can bet that only those that will gain anything will be PHI and maybe those from other companies in the same area, doing the same tasks.
I can bet you a dinner in Vegas that the Tour Toads out west, Alaska, Hawaii and wherever will still be working as low time Robbie drivers. Tour Companies attitude has and always will be as I mentioned before. A turbine transition is paid for in six months or less of employment, after that if you stay its gravy to them and your pretty close to top pay. 500/1000 hour replacements are beating down the door.
Utility, EMS, Corp. folks also have there limits. Look at a lot of resumes of Helicopter types, its not unusual nor unacceptable to have a dozen prior companies listed. Great example that the grass is not always greener.

[GLSNightPilot]

FWIW, scabs at PHI are now earning approximately $214,000/year, at least at the present rate, which certainly won't last a year.

B, I think you're wrong. Everyone, everywhere, is competing for labor, one way or another. If the pay for offshore pilots gets high enough, it will suck off pilots from elsewhere, and those employers will then be forced to pay more to keep experienced pilots.

[Drooping Turns]

Earlier in this thread someone noted the giant quarterly profits that the oil companies were making and predicted that those companies would be reluctant to go back to boating their employees to and fro. He was absolutely correct.

First of all, nearly to a man, the workers I carry, hate those boat rides which can last up to 10 hours depending on distance, type boat and sea state.

More importantly, I've been told by at least three different managers with purchasing authority that flying helicopters is now cheaper than boating! Ever since Katrina and Rita and the explosion of repair and new exploration, the availability of supply and crew boats is way behind demand. The Boat companies have been quick to jack up prices. If the helicopter providers would charge enough to reverse that situation, or at least make helicopters equally as expensive as boats, helicopter pilots across the US could be smiling all the way to the bank and the major oil companies wouldn't blink an eye at the cost.

[B Sousa]

GLS, I would like to agree with you, but I have seen job actions in the past and it didnt affect my pay in the least. Consider Im sort of retired and dont have to work, so Im OK. Lots of others I work with are paycheck to paycheck.
I also have the feeling that a lot of Pilots are looking at this with blinders on and see only $$$ to be made even if its only for a few months. At $700-1000/day two or three months of crossing lines is awful tempting, throw in a turbine transition for some of these kids and Your gonna have a hard time convincing them that Union life is OK.
I never realized just how big some of these companies were until I saw the pictures and the numbers of "Pilots" on strike. Sounds like Ft Rucker in the late 60s.
I also cannot fathom why, if the Oil Industry is banking bucks by the boatload, they dont put some Pressure on PHI to get this Sh1t solved.
Believe it or not I got my first inkling of a pilot shortage here in Vegas today, when I heard one of the companies was looking for ANYONE as those working were being overworked. Maybe due to a few who hear the ca-ching, ca-ching $$$ in the Gulf.

[SASless]

For the one side in this fight it is not at all about money....but pure old power and ego. He turned a failing company around and now the challenge is to de-certify the Union.

The only thing bad about "youth" is it is wasted upon the "young"! In a few years, these young pilots who can only see the short term issues will rue the day they crossed that line if in fact the union fails. It will be right back to the "old way".

[rjsquirrel]

GLSNightpilot said, "Everyone, everywhere, is competing for labor, one way or another. If the pay for offshore pilots gets high enough, it will suck off pilots from elsewhere, and those employers will then be forced to pay more to keep experienced pilots."

That is the battle in a nutshell. You can bet every management dollar in the helo industry is looking at how to help PHI stop the pay raises (and the even more important solidarity that the strike can weld).

Those who think I hi-jack the thread to discuss the fundamental differences between the Norway way of doing bidness and the Gulf are wrong. This thread, which I started and which I can evaporate with a single button-push, is about the strike, and all its corners.
I support the strikers (who worked for 2 1/2 years while trying to get management to listen to them) and also support realistic setting of goals. Those who think that national citizens of a socialist country that owns the oil and owns the only oil company will get the same as free-market pilots who walk into a service company competing with others is smoking funny cigarettes.

OTOH, anyone who thinks pay will be higher with no unions is just plain stupid.

Best case scenario: PHI caves, and the Union bends a bit and the strike ends with good pay and proves that there is solidarity. It spreads to other sectors of the US helo industry as it proves money can be made, pilots can be reasonable in strikes.
How does this happen? Too few scabs at too high a temperary pay force PHI to relent. No violence or stupid union acts (they have been gentlemen so far). No Federal intervention (unlikely just before elections, highly likely otherwise when you have the Rabid Business Government in office - which BTW is why tottigol makes agood point, the current US government does not transport free markets where its Army is, does it?)).

Worst case scenario: Union is broken by PHI toughness (subcontracts from competing operators pick up the traffic, making the pilots for those operators unwitting scabs). This proves that pilots are chattel to operators everywhere in the US.

[mrwellington]

GLSNightpilot said, "
Those who think that national citizens of a socialist country that owns the oil and owns the only oil company will get the same as free-market pilots who walk into a service company competing with others is smoking funny cigarettes.


WHAT :eek: CHC is owned by the Norwegian Goverment ?? And Bristow too ?
Thanks for the enlightment :ok:

[rjsquirrel]

No wellington (like a boot, eh?) but the state-owned oil companies make them adhere to contracts that tell them what to do, and they have to use union workers to do it, and those workers have set salaries, wellington. These things are illegal in the US!

I am amazed at how few of us can connect the dot, the single dot, let alone a few in sequence. If you have the moxy to strike, or to tell your buddies across the sea to strike, at least have some idea what you are fighting, and how you won, so you can pass it on to the US guys! In Europe, you won this way:
1) Europe = Strong politically powerful unions that are bowed to by companies and government.
US = Weak unions, relatively poorly supported by government (and detested by Republicans) and not respected by management

2) Europe = State owned oil companies, with strong sense of "social duty" and usually union leadership on their boards.
US = Private companies with US leases that allow rape and pillage without any recourse to the "owner" of the oil (the taxpayer).

3) Europe = A strong tradition, back to the middle ages, of a State where all things are granted by the State, which is divinely right, and not argued with. Laws are adhered to by everyone older than 3 years. Nobody argues with the system. Can't fire someone for anything short of murdering their boss. Lay-offs are the subject of front page news, and management is called to committees to explain what they are doing for the poor sods.
US = Free-for-all with a totally different attitude. pack up and drift off if your check is pink one week. Tough isn't it?

[mrwellington]

No wellington (like a boot, eh?) but the state-owned oil companies make them adhere to contracts that tell them what to do, and they have to use union workers to do it, and those workers have set salaries, wellington. These things are illegal in the US!

Ok... Shell,Totalelf and on and on are privately owned companies. They all operate in the northsea.
When CHC&proud mentioned a 90% membership in the union.....what might the remaining 10% be doing ?

Your logic is flawed, and your knowledge is at best poor.


2) Europe = State owned oil companies, with strong sense of "social duty" and usually union leadership on their boards.

Tell that to Shell, Maersk etc :zzz:

[GLSNightPilot]

rj, remember the first rule of holes.

When you're in one, stop digging.

[northseaspray]

Those who think I hi-jack the thread to discuss the fundamental differences between the Norway way of doing bidness and the Gulf are wrong. This thread, which I started and which I can evaporate with a single button-push, is about the strike, and all its corners.
I support the strikers (who worked for 2 1/2 years while trying to get management to listen to them) and also support realistic setting of goals. Those who think that national citizens of a socialist country that owns the oil and owns the only oil company will get the same as free-market pilots who walk into a service company competing with others is smoking funny cigarettes.


After a quicksearch, my brain comes up with these oilcompanies that do business in the Norwegian sector; Statoil, Hydro, ConocoPhilips, Shell, Esso and Eni. In order to bid for a field, the companies has to go trough a prequalification process.

The air tranport services are today provided by CHC Helikopter Service and Norsk Helikopter, a company partly owned by Bristow. Others have tried to get a piece of the market as well, but lately none of them with any success. A smaller new company will have a challenge matching the rates that the two large ones can offer, due to a number of factors.

The only machinery in service are twin engine ifr 19 seaters + a few Dolphins and S76 used for SAR and interrig shuttle.The oilcompanies are quite picky on safety issues due to the rigworker unions, so single engine operations with a singlepilot VFR is not an option here.

And, without a pilots union, I guess my salary could easily be about half of what I make now, but that's not an experiment I'd like to try out in the real world. Coming to think of it, as always, it's a lot cheaper to learn from other peoples mistakes...

Feel free to visit the website of the Local108, and please make a financial contribution. They are my heroes these days, and I consider my donation a very good investment in my own future.

[chc&proud]

Ladies and Gentlemen
The petroleum industry in the North Sea involves 4 countries: the UK, Denmark, Holland and Norway. The major producers of oil and gas in the region are the United Kingdom and Norway.

A large number of oil companies from the US and Europe are competing for the right to any and all new oil fields. As a matter of fact, numerous US oil companies are operators of oil fields in the North Sea. You might have heard of small companies such as: Exxon, Conoco Phillips, Marathon, just to mention a few.

As a matter of fact, the US oil company Phillips made the first find in Norway, back in 1966. The oil field was named the Ekofisk field. It proved to be a huge oil field, which will stay in production for decades.

Europe consists of more than 30 countries. As far as the political systems, they vary a great deal. The same goes for the union aspect. In general it would be fair to say that unions neither runs companies, nor do they determine the outcome of strategic business decisions.

Keep in mind that CHC owns 100% of CHC Scotia in the UK, Helikopter Service in Norway, CHC Ireland, CHC Denmark and CHC Netherlands. The corporation is not friendly towards unions, and there are no free rides for anyone in the group. It's all business.

CAUTION: One of the posters is not up to speed when it comes to the political systems and business practises in Europe. He probably should have paid better attention in school. Please do not take silly, emotional statements at face value. In stead, search on Google for "Europe", "Norway", United Kingdom", "European Union" or similar, and get some facts.

[tottigol]

Mr.Squirrell, I think you ought to ask for a reimbursement of your tutiton fees.
Whomever was your teacher ran all the way to the bank laughing.:yuk:

Since you are a self appointed expert of pilots pay values, can you explain to the rest of us why there is not such a disparity in pay between US and European AIRLINE Pilots as compared to Helicopter Pilots?

I have one answer, but you may not like it.

[tottigol]

No wellington (like a boot, eh?) but the state-owned oil companies make them adhere to contracts that tell them what to do, and they have to use union workers to do it, and those workers have set salaries, wellington. These things are illegal in the US!

You must have read that on the National Enquirer.
One of the teaching from my parents always reminded me to keep my mouth shut when I did not know what I was talking about.
I hope the average American has a better knowledge of the World outside.

US = Free-for-all with a totally different attitude. pack up and drift off if your check is pink one week. Tough isn't it?

Oh Boy, I had missed this one.
Guess it pretty much sums it for your position.

[B Sousa]

"The striking pilots may have lost thier own jobs and pay packets but they are also collectively responsible for those less fortunate and less well paid employees who may also lose their jobs as a result of this situation. Surely one of the first principals of collectivism?"

And of course the company has written to each and every Pilot telling them they will NEVER return, or "Permenently Replaced". Where are they planning on finding 600 Pilots?


"These things are illegal in the US!"
Now there is a term in the U.S. which translates today to "how much money does it cost me to get it done and which politician(s) do I have to buy"

[madman1145]

.. do you like feeling having the power ???
".. This thread, which I started and which I can evaporate with a single button-push .."
Please don't let it come over your head. It has happened to a certain Texas Cowboy with smoking guns and I must say. It's not a pretty sight what is happening :suspect: ..

Last question to you since this thread has come off-track. Is this your view of the world. You said we are socialist over here, well, at least expressing many of us is - almost commies :confused: - did I narrow it down pretty good, your view of the world ??
http://www.bloodyhell.nl/images/map_of_american_isolationist_thinking.gif
Sad sad saaaad !! :( ..

chc&proud - well spoken :ok: ..

- madman

[B Sousa]

Obviously Madman is not what one would call a Supporter of the US (unless his country needed support)

So open up the Aquavit and enjoy your Winter. Can we get back to the topic??

[GLSNightPilot]

If the US wants supporters, it has to be supportive. That is not happening. Spit on the brown people, and the brown people will spit on you, or even strap bombs to themselves before they do something worse. What we have is the Eternal War On The Brown People, and we're losing. Lumping Europeans in with them doesn't help in the least.

[SirVivr]

Any news on what is happening with the pilots on strike at PHI?

[tottigol]

Stan is our most reliable source right now. It seems as if PHI is throwing money left and right in the attempt to break the union.
Unfortunate as it is, it showing the colors of a lot of "newcomers" and demonstrating the shortsightedness of several more.

It seems as if the "dot com" wall street generation made it to the cockpit of helicopters as well.:ugh:

[madman1145]

Hopefully the "dot com" pilots are not a larger crowd ..

One day they will experience it's like peeing in ones pantys. Nice and warm in the beginning, but a bit later it becomes very icecold and nasty :uhoh: ..
They will experience that working for a "dot com" company is not like working for a helicopter operator - or at least, it shouldn't be ..
They will experience that pilots stand together - or at least, they should ..

Otherwise we will end up with FW lifestyle - everyone for him/herself and selfpaid everything because I WANT A SEAT IN A BIG HELICOPTER NOOOOWW :ugh: !!

- madman

[B Sousa]

Speaking of dotcomers. The Stock PHII is not faltering much. sitting around 30.05 52 week high was 41
Lots of Press time but all PHI generated...... So far they may be holding their own. Lets hear what the bell says monday.

OFF TOPIC
"What we have is the Eternal War On The Brown People, and we're losing."
You know that could change overnight, if someone had the balls. We are no longer in need of losing ground troops were it not for the touchy feely crowd.

[tottigol]

I am not expecting much of a drop @ PHI, let's remember that the current owner has at least 51% of voting stocks.
Mr. Gonsoulin excercises a tight control over what information gets out and what not.
Not much of the turmoil has made it to the traditional financial news, at least not the pilots' side of the news.

What I'd like to know is how the fleet has changed in the last five years or so, what's the percentage of medium/heavy twins compared to the light VFR airframes.

[chc&proud]

I'm too busy to stay tuned to this thread 24/7. The map of the world was hillarious, but hopefully does not do justice to the average US citizen.
Everyone should keep in mind that the US, Canada and Europe traditionally have been and remain real close allies and friends, despite differences in opinion on some matters.

This is evident by the way many of us focus on the struggle at PHI. The vast majority of colleagues worldwide wholeheartedly support our colleagues in Local 108, hoping and praying for a sensible and balanced solution to the unresolved issues.

If Local 108 succeeds in securing a decent deal, this will directly help strenghten the resolve of pilot unions in the US and Canada, since they all are members of OPEIU.

Non-union opeators in the same region will more likely than not follow suit, adjusting the terms and conditions to remain competitive in the labor market. Otherwise they will loose too many pilots.

For pilot unions outside the region, such as Europe, it would encourage us to stay the course and continue the work of creating a level playing field as far as terms and conditions are conserned.

All helicopter pilots have a vested interest in the outcome of this battle. All of us should do our utmost to ensure that our friends and colleagues in Local 108 feel the support.

[GLSNightPilot]

Over the past few years PHI has bought mostly S92s and S76s. The intent is to get rid of the aging 214ST and B412 aircraft, because they just won't do the job for deepwater support. There have been few light aircraft purchased, and most of them are going to EMS. Some EC135s were purchased to support Shell Pipeline, but Shell gave the contract to a competitor, so they're mostly sitting idle, while being prepared for EMS. There are far fewer small ships in Oil & Gas now, and it appears the intent is to make that number even lower, concentrating on larger customers with larger aircraft, with higher profit margins. Gonsoulin has apparently decided to abandon the bottom feeders, and that's probably a good business decision. Losing money on each aircraft, but making it up in volume, is no longer a viable business method. As if it ever was, but the Suggs dynasty tried it for a long time. They actually did make money, through leasing the aircraft to PHI through their own shell companies. They didn't really want PHI to make a profit.

[rjsquirrel]

Well, I guess I got a rise out of this thread! And I do love the map. I also wish good luck to the PHI strikers, who have put their livlihoods on the line for all of us (even the socialists ;) )

[SASless]

Bristow years ago tried to stay away from small machines....taking the view the potential return on investment as compared to medium or large machines just did not make it worth it. There will be some need for small machines if for no other reason than to meet a customers total needs and thus facilitate large contracts.

As the work progresses further offshore....Jetrangers and such will gradually go the way of the Buffalo. Thank Goodness!

[widgeon]

FYI , Canadian forces are still flying Buffalo CC115 ,
Just kidding I knew wht you meant.

[slgrossman]

The concept of losing money on each aircraft contracted but making it up with volume compounds to greater losses in my opinion so likewise seems to be failed business logic.

GLS Night Pilot's humor can be somewhat dry from time to time. I believe the remark was tongue-in-cheek.

-Stan-

[B Sousa]

"As the work progresses further offshore....Jetrangers and such will gradually go the way of the Buffalo. Thank Goodness!"
Whoa, Remember Sasless, everything we flew in the Army is now in a Museum......except us.

[GLSNightPilot]

The concept of losing money on each aircraft contracted but making it up with volume compounds to greater losses in my opinion so likewise seems to be failed business logic.
As my kids say, "well, duh!".

If Gonsoulin really has no intentions to downsize, then why did he state, in more than one meeting at bases, that he had no problem doing that? He has said that he will never rehire any striking pilot, and that he is happy to have a much smaller company. Is he speaking out of both sides of his mouth? His 'insider' employees are now claiming the opposite, but how can anyone believe them?

[GLSNightPilot]

Now that Sikorsky pilots are flying as scabs, I will never again say anything good about Sikorsky, Sikorsky aircraft, Sikorsky pilots, or anyone who flies, or has ever flown, for Sikorsky. I hope there is a special place in hell for Pino, who sent them down. I also hope anyone considering the purchase of new equipment will look elsewhere, or suggest their employers look elsewhere. There is plenty of competition, all of it capable of doing the work.

[B Sousa]

"I will never again say anything good about Sikorsky, Sikorsky aircraft, Sikorsky pilots, or anyone who flies, or has ever flown, for Sikorsky."

That may just translate to sticking ones head in the sand using maximum force..

Sikorsky does what it does for what reason?? To sell Aircraft. The Pilots go where they are told to go or are also replaced (except with no union). I cant believe they will have any affect on the job action.

[northseaspray]

Now that Sikorsky pilots are flying as scabs, I will never again say anything good about Sikorsky, Sikorsky aircraft, Sikorsky pilots, or anyone who flies, or has ever flown, for Sikorsky. I hope there is a special place in hell for Pino, who sent them down. I also hope anyone considering the purchase of new equipment will look elsewhere, or suggest their employers look elsewhere. There is plenty of competition, all of it capable of doing the work.


For those of you that are backstabbed by scabs, I fully understand your anger. However, there might also be Sikorsky/Flight Safety pilots that declined to fly for PHI during the strike, and they have my respect. If the names of the scabs are well known, someone should approach them and politely explain that they are not very welcome these days.

[SASless]

....or remind them how fortunate they are that this is not an old time Teamsters Strike! ;)

The Sikorsky pilots are in an awkward position. I would assume they are non-union and must therefore adhere to their employer's determination of what their job description is. They, being non-union, have no axe to grind in the PHI fuss extant as without fail, their paycheck far exceeds that of the pilots they are replacing.

That being said, they are helicopter pilots, and thus have every involvement in the campaign by helicopter pilots to improve the lot of helicopter pilots at PHI, which also affects helicopter pilots throughout the US Helicopter industry.

Now I would bet a doughnut to a dog dropping, and let you hold the stakes in your mouth, that these Yankee Carpet Baggers are not staying in PHI crew quarters....that would be way too plebian for them. Perhaps a polite chat over an adult malt beverage would be in order for someone to tell them of the issues at hand, and ask them nicely to head home back up North.

[Drooping Turns]

The only Sikorsky person I'm aware of has resigned at Sikorsky and signed on at PHI as a contractor. No longer a Sikorsky employee. If there are more than this one, disregard my input.

DT

[ron-powell]

DT:

Now I'm not saying this is the case with your reported SK guy, but it kind of reminds me of "sheep dipping". Air force guy resigns from AF. Hires on with CIA proprietary. Does the deal. Deal over. Lo and behold, he's back in the Air Force.

On the subject of the thread, I've had conversations with some of the non-striking pilots and they don't consider themselves scabs because, wait for it - they quit the union prior to the strike being called.

I direct them to the definition of "scab" at wikipedia.

Ron Powell

[chc&proud]

Most of the pilots in the North Sea would probably fall into the category of giving the S92 a thumbs up, based on the track record of the venerable old lady, the S61N. The passengers loved the cabin, and the combination of sound levels and vibration levels being fairly decent it was always a favorite of many pilots in Norway.

It did have drawbacks related to insufficent engine performance in low winds and high temperatures, and a high centre of gravity leading to all pilots expecting any distching to involve upside down under water evacution.....
Unfortunately, the S92 have not proven to be a reliable and safe aircraft yet.

Noise levels in the cockpit, high vibration levels, cracks in the airframe and parts falling off, oil lubrication system failing, loose pitch links have given reason for serious consern. Our customers , our passengers, the pilots and technicians have all had to rethink our intial enthusiasm about the S92.

To many of us this has lead to increased focus on Eurocopter products. Many of us would be inclined to recommend the EC225 to the customer and the passenger organisations if asked. Have no doubt, they do ask for our advice.

If it turns out that factory pilots from Sirkorsky carry out commercial flights for PHI during this time of crisis, this is very serious indeed. it would potentially make it difficult to communicate with the factory on issues relating to work environment and safety.

Would factory pilots from Eurocopter ever sink this low? I doubt it.

If indeed pilots from the Sikorsky plant is performing commercial operations in a company which is involved in legal industrial action, then this would be a time for them to take it easy, relax and find more productive ways of spending their days. How about figuring out how to make the S92 into a smooth aircraft like the S61N? That would keep you busy for quite some time.

[old gas]

With all due respect, I cannot help but feel that chc's discourses about Unionism's social acceptance, successes,and salaries, in his European enviornment, are somewhat like the old expression of comparing apples and oranges.
Like it or not and for better or worse, the USA is not (yet?) similar to the the Common Market enviornment, even after Ms Thatcher's impact.

The fact that in the USA, sufficient sentiment still supports right to work laws in several states, and insufficient favorable support makes recent French large labor actions and boycotts seem highly improbable here in 'the Colonies'.

Additionally. Sikorsky not only operates within this different enviornment, but also suffers from a competitive lack of Eurocopter's generous subsidies.

These just two of the most glaring reasons that I personally believe his arguments although very well presented, are not valid.

Just my opinion, respectfully submitted.

[mrwellington]

I think of unions as a "chamber of commerce" for the pilots. That's got everything todo with social acceptance, successes,and salaries.
How come US airlinepilots have figured it out, but the majority of helipilots (US) haven't ?

[industry insider]

From GLS Night Pilot

"Now that Sikorsky pilots are flying as scabs, I will never again say anything good about Sikorsky, Sikorsky aircraft, Sikorsky pilots, or anyone who flies, or has ever flown, for Sikorsky. I hope there is a special place in hell for Pino, who sent them down. I also hope anyone considering the purchase of new equipment will look elsewhere, or suggest their employers look elsewhere."

GLS

Your extreme anger is quite apparent and to some extent understandable. The products made by Sikorsky have flown many military and civilian hours as well as having saved many lives. Many pilots on this forum would not agree with you about Sikorsky products.

From your viewpoint, it is unfortunate that some pilots, including some who are not direct PHI employees have crossed lines to keep some flights operating. However, to consign the Sikorsky President to hell and to trash their products purely because they have engaged in actions with which you disagree is not a structured or cogent argument. Just because you perceive that Sikorsly supports PHI does not overnight change the fabric or continuity of their products.

In fact, it could be interpreted as an act of desparation and lead people to the conclusion that the company's refusal to give in to union demands is causing considerable duress. I am sure that the striking union members would like to maintain a just and reasoned argument in order to ensure continued support from many fellow pilots on this forum.

[chc&proud]

Europe is not a big place when you look at a map, but is inhabited by more than 500 million people in the EU alone, almost twice as many as the US. The countries have different languages, and vast differences in cultures and traditions.
--------------------------------------------------------
It's too bad so many US helicopter pilots still hold on to the silly notion that being a loyal member of a pilot union might make Jimmy Hoffa come alive.

Contrary to the misconseptions of some ill informed people in the US most of the union pilots in Europe place their vote with conservative parties come election time. Party politics have little or nothing to do with the term UNION when it comes to pilot unions. Please wise up, those of you who are still asleep. Have you never heard of the Seven Sisters? Have you never heard of Guilds? Those entities are as much unions as any pilot union will ever be, in my opinion.

Anyway, how are the guys and gals doing at PHI.....? Is the strike having an impact on productivity in the GOM?

[B Sousa]

"How come US airlinepilots have figured it out, but the majority of helipilots (US) haven't ?"

I was awaitin for that bait. Lets look at all those Airline Pilots today. I mean those real rich guys who are making a ton of money. Ask them where their Pension plans have gone......Im talking like Vanished overnight. Some guys with upwards of a Million dollars in Pension.......zippo, Goo bye, Zap. CEOs and their crowd are OK, because they make the rules. And all they may get from the ALPA is Sympathy.....

Sort of like our Politicians. They dont "Steal" anything, they legislate it into their pockets. Their constituency is a bit more stupid as they re-elect these mopes. I guess in essence, we get what we deserve.

The world is a seriously fast changing place today and not many folks are going to make careers out of one employer anymore. Just dont tell me the Airlines are all that great.

[chc&proud]

I agree that mr. B Sousa has a valid point in oh so many ways when it comes to the US airlines. They are flying through heavy turbulence, seeking protection from creditors through Chapter 11, trying to stay airborne.

Still, the pilot salaries and pension plans might not be the main reason for the problems.

The airline pilots are still unionized and remain members of US-ALPA or similar. Looking into my crystal ball, I see ALPA working hard to control damages and to protect the interests of the membership, and I see them eventually finding solutions to the huge challenges they are facing today.

ALPA traditionally has tried to work with management to sort out problems in times of crisis. When times are good ALPA will of course seek improvements to terms and conditions.

I wonder how our friends at PHI are doing?

[ron-powell]

Yeah, no doubt airlines have taken a hit along with their pilots. But then, I guess it's just who you work for flying big iron.

http://www.dmnews.com/cms/dm-news/direct-mail/38109.html

Nice 8 year contract with signing bonuses of between $34-60K USD.


Ron Powell

[SASless]

A friend of my recently retired from US Air, he took a 60% hit on his pension. He gets 4800 USD per month after the hit. The US taxpayer, thanks to the Airlines and other Big Business, passed the pension bills over to the government for payment. Granted the airlines and other big business payed some insurance premiums for that coverage but nowhere near the amount this is going to cost the Government.

He also had a contract that lodged him in nice hotels when away, paid for his meals, provided transport to and from work when away, a great loss of license insurance policy, a no cost medical insurance plan, a work roster that limited him to 75 flying hours per month and a very nice pension at age 60.

He also operated very well maintained and equipped aircraft out of very well instrumented and monitored airports, on published routes with full ATC and weather services, had Dispatchers and other staff to look after the details of the trip for him and do all the flight planning for him.

His biggest worry was not being able to find a patch of smooth air to keep the people in back happy.

He got all that by means of a very strong union called ALPA. A union that got started way back when airline flying was exactly like helicopter flying is and has been.

After a full career flying for any US helicopter operator....union or non-union....how you reckon you would/do compare with that?

How many PHI pilots died as a result of a crash last year....the year before....and the year before that? How many US Air pilots have died in crashes in the past three years?

Anyone wish to explain how much easier it is to do a night Rig Radar Approach a few hundred miles out to sea with bare minimum weather as compared to doing an ILS approach to a major international airport?

Who works harder, takes more risks, has less help and assistance....the airline pilot or the helicopter pilot?

Who says we are not worth far more than we get?

[B Sousa]

"A friend of my recently retired from US Air, he took a 60% hit on his pension."

The bottm line. When one prepares for 20+ years to retire and takes that kind of a hit, it hurts. He may have a comfotable retirement but the hit was not part of the bargin. Furthermore, there is no recourse.

As to the fancy Airplanes etc, and nice conditions etc., versus non air conditioned Helicopters in the gulf........Well thats all about choices in life. Some make good ones the rest of us live with ours.

[mrwellington]

Well thats all about choices in life. Some make good ones the rest of us live with ours.

.......pride is one thing union-pilots seem to have. Pride in themselves, and a assertive attitude to change their enviroment & conditions in the workplace for the better.

Even baseballplayers have a union in the states.

[SASless]

Bert,

My US Air buddy was not looking for sympathy....he clearly stated that but wanted to describe what it feels like to have that happen. The Defined Benefit Plan (company funded pension) was thought to be fully funded and "safe as houses" until the crunch came. He acknowledges he is well off no matter the pension plan failure but still when one thinks all is right with life and this happens.....he deserves a certain amount of concern.

If you will recall, when the Bristow North Sea guys went for the benchmark salary concept, the immediate wail heard from management was they could not fund the pension plan at those levels of pay. Granted they ignored the "investment holidays" over the years when they contributed not one farthing into the pension scheme as their mandatory contribution was covered by the proceeds of the funds investments (and lack of retiree's following layoffs and such).

The last big fight at UPS for the truck drivers involved "control of the medical and pension funds". Any reason why management wanted to take control of the funds? Remember the US Government was a trustee following the Teamster/Mafia problems.






Dateline: 01 October 2006

To the Fine Upstanding Members of Local 108,

As I write from my quiet desk in Lincoln, Nebraska, I remain confounded that in September of 2006, fellow professional helicopters pilots were forced to go out on strike; that, as of this day, fellow professional helicopter pilots continue to strike; and, most troubling of all, that the employers we've so faithfully served throughout the decades- those who enjoy increasingly grander success as the result of our skills and labor- refuse to acknowledge, in even the most basic sense, our contribution to Their unprecedented prosperity.

I'll not waste words convincing those of you standing up for yourselves that you're doing the right thing- you already know this. I would however, with your permission, like to address the sources and true victims of this predicament, as the words will be much better spent.

To the company: know that the time is upon you to make good-faith amends with your dedicated and irreplaceable work force. They are your most valuable resource and the very reason the company exists; despite your wildest hopes, there is no replacing them. Also, do not believe that those who have chosen to continue to work do so because of an affinity towards the company. True, there are still handfuls of people here and there that really believe the company is doing right by them, but mostly, it's just people who neither respect the company, nor have the guts to do anything about it. This is bad for the company and here's why: invariably the timid become empowered either through understanding the truth, through opportunity, through leadership or through all of these.

The helicopter industry is not a case study in the well-known decline of the labor movement in this country. Quite the opposite, it is an exceptional case study of a highly modernized, highly professional industry where the operators have simply failed and/or refused to uphold the prevailing standards of modern professionalism that exist today. Your reluctance to recognize "the times" is ravaging this industry and unless there are significant changes on the immediate horizon there will be dire consequences held to your account.

To the picket line crossers: a lesson in solidarity was demonstrated most recently at your very own, sister organization, Local 107. Because President Bruner and the Membership of 107 are too humble to openly say it, I will take the liberty to do so. They achieved their favorable contract and averted a strike by one reason, and one reason alone. It was not because Air Log became overwhelmed with some new-found peace with the Union. It wasn't because the 107 negotiators somehow pulled a fast one on them. It was because their Membership stood up, stood together, and made it known what they were willing to settle for- period. There are a few occasions in life when men are required to make difficult choices that transcend their immediate comfort for the greater good of all. This is one of those times. In these critical instances we do not have the luxury of picking the time and the place; it just comes about and one must answer the call. In your short-sightedness, you've lulled yourselves into believing that you somehow control your own fate. The irony of all ironies here is that you not only forfeit your potential to control your own fate in your desire for immediate contentment, but through your fainthearted inaction, you sacrifice both your own and your entire constituency's future. I urge you to seriously consider the overall results of your unwillingness to participate in this action. This decision by your Union was authorized first, through a majority vote; and secondly through careful and thoughtful analysis by some very, very experienced people and therefore, it should be honored. Simply put, the responsibility is yours, whether you accept it or not.

To the customers and those who's well being we are entrusted with: first of all, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for the support that you offer in this trying and difficult situation. We can only do what we know is right in our attempts to resolve the issues that do and will undoubtedly have a profound and direct effect on you through the services we desire to provide.

And to the Fine Upstanding Members of Local 108: have confidence in knowing that you have the full support of the Membership of your sister Locals within the PHPA, as well as the highly respected Firefighters and Law Enforcement Officers. Above all else- all else- take great pride in knowing that history will tell the true story and you will be at peace knowing the part each and every one of you played in it.


In Solidarity and With the Utmost Respect,

Troy V. Montanez

President, Local 109

[GLSNightPilot]

So the airline pilot has a pension of 'only' $4800/month? What do you think my pension will be? I can tell you to within one dollar - precisely zero. I have no pension at all, and neither do any other helicopter pilots I know. ALPA may not have saved some pensions entirely, but at least there are pensions, due entirely to that union. $4800/month is more than zero. Airline pilots' pensions may have diminished, but what about Enron's employees? They lost everything, and I mean everything. Management incompetence and greed are responsible, whether it's an airline or some other company. Lay and Crandall didn't take a hit on their pensions, nor has any other CEO or member of upper management, in any industry. No union is to blame for any of this, just greedy managers.

Some airlines are having problems, but some aren't. It depends mostly on the competence of management. Southwest Airlines, one of the most heavily unionized airlines in the US, has posted respectable profits every year, and continues to do so. It treats its employees with respect, and gives the unions some say in how the company is run. It therefore has satisfied employees, who work very hard to help the company make money, and therefore it is always profitable. Airlines which treat the unions as adversaries are not profitable. A study published in Scientific American magazine showed that the most productive, and most profitable, companies in the US, regardless of the industry, were those with a union, and which had a good working relationship with the unions, and gave the unions some say in how the company was run. Companies without unions were some distance behind them, and the least productive, least profitable companies, in almost every instance, were those with a union and an adversarial relationship with the union. Treating your employees with respect is good business, and leads to profits. Treating them as PHI does is poor business, and leads to unprofitability in the long run. These are facts, like it or not. PHI will likely go from record profits to little or no profit. I'm just glad I have no PHI stock to unload, because it's going to be worth much less in a few months than it is now, unless the company attitude changes drastically. PHI has shown no inclination to bargain, and still refuses to come to the table. It will cost a lot of money.

[SASless]

Strike effects hard to measure

Jason Brown
[email protected]


Some business owners and employees interviewed Thursday near PHI's Morgan City, Houma and Port Fourchon bases reported seeing normal operations since PHI's unionized pilots walked off their jobs, but others said operations had drastically decreased.

Officials from PHI would not comment for this report.

In Galliano, Bob Wade, an assistant Gulf Coast manager at Air Logistics, a PHI competitor, said Air Logistics has noticed a slight increase in business since the strike, but the company already has a solid, full-time customer base and is unable to take on much more.

"We have seen no drastic increase," he said, adding that those customers who use both PHI and Air Logistics have not aired any complaints about PHI's services.

How PHI is maintaining customers flights is unclear as the majority of helicopters at each of PHI's bases could be seen tied down throughout the day Thursday.

Morgan City slowdown
In Morgan City, Shirley Bailey owns Bailey's Lakeview Grocery, which is located within view of PHI's base. Bailey, who says he is always at the shop, said he's noticed a definite drop both in his business and in the number of flights coming into and leaving from PHI's base.
Normally, Bailey said, he sees about 15 to 20 flights per day, but has watched that fall to about six or seven since the strike.

"It's not as much as they used to have before," he said.

Nearby at Seacraft, employees said that on a normal day far fewer helicopters would be seen at the heliport.

Quieter in Houma
In Houma, about eight of 10 helicopters were tied down at PHI's base and one was seen flying off at around 10:40 a.m.
John Swiner, of K-Air, an aviation mechanic shop located across from PHI, said he had noticed a tremendous drop in flights, placing it at around 10 percent of what it used to be.

Normally, "all of those tied down would be operating," he said.

He knows this because usually, he said, he wouldn't be able to hold a conversation over the sound of helicopters overhead. Swiner said his shop is "kind of like an amphitheater" that catches the roar of PHI's helicopters. "You wouldn't want to stay here five minutes with those choppers overhead," he said.

Mickey Watson, a mechanic at Houma Avionics, echoed Swiner's sentiments about noise and added that usually the helicopters wouldn't be tied down this early in the day.

He said there were more out Thursday than Wednesday. On any given day, a flight seemed to take off every 15 to 20 minutes.

But Charles Taylor, a flight instructor at Johnston Flying Services who usually pulls 12-hour days at the site, said he hasn't noticed that much of a decline in flights. At 11:20 a.m., one PHI helicopter was seen coming in as another went out.

"Some days, it sounds like WWII around here and some days it don't," Howard Barker said.He said to look at BP's parking lot, where PHI is the main carrier, it doesn't appear to be having an impact. The parking lot indeed was full, just as it was at the PHI base.


Port Fourchon picketers
And operations at Port Fourchon, where people reported seeing a small group of picketers outside of the base on a daily basis, were much the same.
The Advertiser witnessed three of six visible helicopters tied down on the heliport. Only one helicopter was seen leaving the area.

Chris Jefferson, a manager at nearby Pacific Gulf Wire Rope, said he's noticed a lack of flights there, as well.

"They got flights going on, but it ain't like business as usual," he said.

[SirVivr]

SASLESS and others:
Copy and enter the following url in the address line.
It has to do with P.H.I. Actually it is the Punjabi Hood Inc website, out of TX.

I mean this to be humorous, but it just might show what the next strike may look if this one fails. I don't believe it will. If, when, cash is needed, I am ready to contribute, as I believe we all are. Wish it had come earlier so I could benefit more. Guess I will have to be happy flying with the femmes.

I am.

Chas A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH2LwsmONkI&mode=related&search=

[chc&proud]

Dateline: 02 Oct 2006
Message From PHPA President, Butch Grafton:

To all the pilots at PHI who are supporting the fight for a new contract I want to say that PHPA and myself are one hundred percent behind you.

I have been a working line pilot for the past thirty-seven years, twenty-six of which have been under a Collective Bargaining Agreement. The years I have worked under a CBA have been the most comfortable years of my life. I know exactly where I stand in each and every situation in the workplace because the contract is a black and white document that spells out my responsibilities to the company and the company's responsibilities to me.

It is a remarkable feeling to know exactly where you stand in any given situation in the work place and that is exactly what a CBA provides you.
Fortunately for me our company has worked with a CBA since 1973 so we have had plenty of time to teach them, and ourselves, what a tremendous tool a CBA is. It allows the company to get rid of bad employees while at the same time preventing managers from building those personal little kingdoms many of them like to build.

Under a CBA everyone is equal and all managers and employees must play by the same rules. It takes time for both the employee and the managers to learn this, but once they both understand the process, the work environment becomes much better.

The pilots at LSSI have now worked under a CBA for thirty-three years and have never had to take a work action. We have slowly but surely educated both management and employee on how best to work together to resolve issues and consequently things run relatively smooth in our workplace.

The reason I point these things out to you is it takes time and effort for both management and employee to learn how best to make life under a CBA flow smoothly. It does not come easy, but once it starts working, it only gets better. You now find yourselves in the most difficult part of that learning/teaching process. That is you are trying to make the company understand that there are certain things you feel are necessary in your contract for you to be able to continue working for PHI.

Unfortunately, there is only one way to make them understand this and that is by withholding your labor, which is your ONLY bargaining chip. I know this is a very difficult thing to do and I know it is a last resort method to try to get them to understand how you feel. I also know that it is the ONLY way you can make things better for all concerned in this particular battle you find yourselves in.

Now, the reason you find yourselves in this battle is quite simple. The company wants complete control of your lives in the workplace. They do not want to have to live up to the terms of any contract with their employees even though they insist on a contract with their customers and everyone else they do business with. You have to ask yourselves why?

The answer is simple. You are their biggest expense and they will spend their entire lives trying to find ways to mitigate that expense. With a CBA in place they cannot simply change the pay, benefits or working conditions on a whim. They MUST renegotiate the contract with you and they do not like having to do that. Life is much easier for them if they can simply do things like take your sick leave away, cancel all vacations, or work you till you drop because they can't find pilots because of the poor pay and working conditions.

The CBA prevents these things. Under the CBA the company must come to the membership and negotiate changes. It has worked well for us here at LSSI for thirty-three years and it will work well for you too if you just have the stamina to see the process through this most difficult first step.

I would also like you to know that thousands of pilots both here and around the world are watching you with great anticipation. They are all hoping you will make this work. I have received mail from pilots from across the U.S, England, Germany, Norway, Ireland and Spain. Central and South America, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark and elsewhere, wishing you guys the best.

The helicopter world is watching and the pilots are on your side, however, they also understand that it is you and only you who can make this happen.

Finally, I ask that you please think about this. This is your one and only chance to step forward as a group and take some control of your day-to-day lives in the workplace. This is your one chance to make things much better for you and your families. You now have a number of very serious choices to make which will affect you, your family, and your fellow pilots across the industry for years to come.

It is not easy to make these choices but they are choices you will have to make one way or the other. Do you give in to the company and let them have complete control of your life in the workplace? Do you give up the right to insist things be done as specified in a written contract with you and your fellow pilots? Do you allow the company to continue to change the rules you work by and the benefits you receive without any input from you? Do you weather this storm and insist on a binding contract which insures everyone works by the same rules and managers cannot make up their own rules as they go?

These are just a few of the things you have to decide are or are not worth the struggle. This is your one and only opportunity to make things better for you, your family and your fellow pilots. If ever there was a time to stand up for yourselves, that time is now. Only you can make the decision to continue the fight or give up all you have been fighting for. I hope each and every one of you can see what is ahead if you just weather this one storm.

I wish you all the best in your fight for a contract worthy of your skill and expertise and I want you to know that I will support you every step of the way. If any of you have questions, or just want to talk about this, please feel free to call me. My cell number is 334-790-4417. The only time I don't answer it is when I am in the cockpit so if you get my voicemail please leave me a message and a number and I will call you back as soon as I can.

Best of luck to you all!
Butch Grafton
President - PHPA
[email protected]

[chc&proud]

In the US I believe only approximately 12 % of the labor force is unionized. This percentage is lower than in Europe. Not having checked for the latest updates, I seem to remember that the membership percentage has been declining over the last 20 years.

At the same time pilot unions have been standing strong in the established carriers. In the North Sea and in Ireland pilots have become unionized to a great degree over the last 10 years. Even Bond in the North Sea, which true to its tradition have no Collective Labor Agreement, supposedly have a more than 50 % BALPA membership.

All of the North Sea operators having pilot unions are owned and controlled by North American interests (US or Canada). the owners are not very friendly to unions.

Whether you are a union member or not, terms and conditions are identical. It is a voluntary choice to join a union or not, and we do not require a potential newhire to say yes to union membership prior to a position being offered. No one is harassing you if you have chosen to remain outside the pilot union.

Still, the vast majority have chosen to pay the membership fee. I wonder why, when the non-union pilot in HS would save not only more than $1.000 annually, but also would not have to work on a day off for the pilots union each year. Could it be that it is regarded as an investment in your own future?

[bondu]

chc&proud

Very well said!! :ok:

In the UK BALPA has just negotiated with HM Revenue and Customs for a Fixed Rate Expense Allowance for all commercial pilots. This FREA is for £950 per year against income tax: basically about £570 less tax to pay each year, based on 40% top rate. Along with the recognition by HMR&C that BALPA is a "professional body" and members are able to offset 66% of their membership fees against annual income tax, this means that BALPA membership is virtually free of charge.

CHC have a Pilot Service Agreement which covers every aspect of a pilot's employment. Very much the sort of cover that Butch Grafton mentions in the US CBA. Pilots and managers know exactly where everyone stands: no manager's "special deals" for favoured pilots. Pilot are unable to 'force up' an allowance for going on detachment; the detachment rate has already been agreed and is published in the PSA. The management and the union re-assess the PSA every two years or so and make any amendments both agree are necessary. Most, if not all, UK fixed wing airlines have a PSA. The Bristow BALPA company council is currently working on theirs. It is definately the best way forward.

To those pilots in PHI who are standing proud and tall: stick with it! You will be so much better off when you have won you fight! :ok:

To those PHI pilots who don't feel up to the fight: please think again! Reconsider and go and stand with your brother pilots outside! You will most certainly benefit in the long run!

bondu

[tomotomp]

In the UK BALPA has just negotiated with HM Revenue and Customs for a Fixed Rate Expense Allowance for all commercial pilots. This FREA is for £950 per year against income tax: basically about £570 less tax to pay each year, based on 40% top rate.
Bondu
How dose one apply for this FREA.

[B Sousa]

"My US Air buddy was not looking for sympathy....he clearly stated that but wanted to describe what it feels like to have that happen. The Defined Benefit Plan (company funded pension) was thought to be fully funded and "safe as houses" until the crunch came. He acknowledges he is well off no matter the pension plan failure but still when one thinks all is right with life and this happens.....he deserves a certain amount of concern"

Sasless. Posts are hitting so fast I cant get caught up......Anyway. I DO have sympathy for him as this is typical. Also as GLS mentioned about the Enron folks. Its criminal , and the problem is there is no recourse. We think we have a secure plan set aside and boom some moron steals it with a Pen.
As to the statement $4800 is not bad, maybe so, but there rest was stolen is my point. If you have no retirement plan, it was YOUR choice.

[bondu]

tomotomp

Call this number, 020 8476 4000, and ask for membership section.
They will then send out the relevant paperwork, including the details of the FREA.

bondu :ok:

[tomotomp]

THANKS:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

[GLSNightPilot]

It was my choice to be a helicopter pilot, mostly because that's the only useful skill Uncle Sam taught me. There was no choice about a pension, because one is not, and has not, been offered. I'm unaware of any helicopter operator with a pension plan. I do have a small 401(k) fund, but it wasn't offered until recently, and the incompetent managers of it have made their own profits off it, while requiring that it be in poorly performing funds. It would have been wonderful to put a few hundred thousand annually into a private retirement fund, but until about 5 years ago I wasn't even making $30,000/yr with PHI, and it's hard to put much away when you're barely meeting the mortgage. This isn't news to professional pilots.

[B Sousa]

GLs said it in a nutshell. His choice with available skills. Down deep I dont think he regrets anything. Most of will never get rich, but have to live within our means. Im certainly no different.
It does seem that a lot of companies do offer small benefits, some offer more, but what I see with youngsters today (following in our footsteps) is that many dont take advantage of these Bennies AND when changing jobs go out and by a new 4x4. Start all over and by their 50s etc have squat left except ex-wives and Mobile Homes.
Managers make more money than pilots, owners should make more than them. Its the pecking order and if you cant handle it, start your own company. Until then if you have a retirement fund, keep stuffing it and dont touch it.
Where the latest news from the Gulf...Its awful quiet........

[SASless]

ERA Helicopters used to have a nice pension by means of Rowan Drilling which owned ERA. They also had airline discount travel by means of the ERA airline in Alaska.

Seacor, a boat company, bought out ERA, sold off the airline, and away went the nice pension and travel benefits.

Does not Al G have a history in the offshore boat business?

Overheard some rumblings about quality of life for some boat crews he had....

[SASless]

PHI stock lost 7.25% today to close at $27.78, a mere 23 cents above its 52 week low and well off its 52 week high of $41.00.

Someone's stock options are getting much brighter assuming PHI survives and the stock price goes back up. Of course older stock options are not worth much.

Whirls needs to give us some tips....what would be the smart play for a guy who owns 51% of the stock? Is there a financial strategy we are missing that could explain taking the company into a strike on purpose?

[GLSNightPilot]

One thing never made completely clear in the original stock acquisition is exactly where all that money came from. Considering the rather cozy relationship that seems to exist between PHI, Shell, BP, and Exxon, is it possible that the oil companies could have ponied up a few million to buy the company from Carroll, using a front-man well known as an anti-union activist? If that were the case, the stock price is really not much of an issue, because the entire amount is only a few hours of production for them.

[Drooping Turns]

Both sides seem to be getting ready for the long haul. A war of attrition if you will. PHI is hiring like crazy and yes SASless, they are still doing water survival /dunker training. Still, it's got to be a race against time. Will PHI be able to train enough replacements to stall off customer complaints? Can the non-strikers stand the increased work load? Will the members of Local 108 be able to stay away from work long enough to hurt the company? The money that PHI is throwing at replacement workers seems to be proving the law of supply and demand. If you pay enough, they will come. Company bluster aside, they seem to be coming in droves. At this rate, I see this work action dragging on until most strikers end up going to work at other companies or industrys and PHI hires a complete new staff with the strike technically still ongoing, but moot.

Pitty.

DT

[GLSNightPilot]

Over the past two years, PHI has publicly admitted that they were able to hire less than half the number of pilots they needed, and retained much less than half of those they hired through initial training. I don't know who is going to train these masses of pilots who are suddenly showing up, since the entire training department is flying the line because they're the only ones available to fly the medium and heavy aircraft. New 206 pilots are worth very little now, even if they do finish the training.

[H-43]

I've followed this thread with much interest since it began. While I didn't feel that I needed to comment until I read one post that began by stating that a certain person had become a helicopter pilot simply because "Uncle Sam" gave him those skills. I personally paid every cent for my own training and wouldn't trade my choice of this line of work for any reason as did many others that I work with. However, I haven't heard any of them complain that others had their training paid for. I understand why some feel that they deserve a better shake from management but I would also ask how many have been in management. There are crooks out there but they aren't all and it is a much less enjoyable job than we have from day to day. I know many have said that it isn't practical to leave if you don't like it but I feel that it is and have left several jobs when better ones came along. Just my $.02

[SASless]

II,

Is it far fetched to believe he really wants to wind up owning all the stock then take the company private again?

The early repayment of financing reported in the financials were monies pay to Al G as I am told.

Perhaps now he is in a very handy "cash" position personally and could buy the outstanding stock at a much discounted price?

One would have to think there is a "business" reason behind this rather than mere hard headedness.

[ron-powell]

Morning DT:

“Phi hiring like crazy?”

Where are these pilots coming from?

U.S.military on a stop loss. PHI only offering about $1000/yr above Air Methods for VFR EMS pilots and about $1300/yr more than Air Log for offshore. Hundreds of low time helo instructors out there? Where?

As GLS pointed out, even before the strike, the company could not hire enough pilots. We received a memo from the DO addressing mandatory workover. During the period from March of this year through the date of the memo, around the end of JUL/early AUG, the company had hired about 93 pilots. During the same period 59 pilots left.

Everybody is looking for pilots. The PHI training staff is flying the line as GLS also pointed out. Who’s training these new hires?

“The money that PHI is throwing at replacement workers seems to be proving the law of supply and demand. If you pay enough, they will come.”

Doesn’t it make you wonder why the company isn’t throwing it at us?

Ron Powell

[GLSNightPilot]

The original 8K simply said that the funds used to purchase the stock were from an unsecured line of credit. Where that line of credit came from has not been disclosed. Perhaps it was his own money, perhaps not. I don't know of an easy way to find out, but I do know that he has proven that he cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

II, you must really be inside to have such intimate knowledge of financial details, and still not have any business relationship with PHI. I'm not completely certain I can believe everything you say, either.

[GLSNightPilot]

H-43, my training wasn't exactly 'free'. True, I didn't have to pay money out of my pocket, but then Uncle Sam did extract something in return. There was a small unpleasant situation in Southeast Asia at the time, and he needed young men willing to fly helicopters where pieces of metal were flying through the air, through helicopters, and through human bodies. I gave several years of my life wearing a uniform in return for that training, along with many thousands of others before and since. If you don't want to pay out of your pocket, the recruiter's offices are still open, and Uncle Sam still needs lots of helicopter pilots. Whining about free training doesn't move my heart in the least.

[GLSNightPilot]

stock manipulation is kind of illegal, as is insider trading.

But that doesn't seem to prevent people from doing it. Some are in prison, some are on the way, and some get away with it without getting caught. It's certainly less risky than robbing banks, although they are both methods of stealing money.

[GLSNightPilot]

No, not trying to buy an argument, just pointing out the obvious. :yuk:

[Gomer Pylot]

If the nonvoting stock isn't worth owning, why is most of it held by large institutional investors? It does seem they're bailing out of it, judging from the stock price changes. They don't seem to own much of the voting stock, for some reason. If the institutional investors bail, how does that affect the company?

[B Sousa]

$27.87 on the Stock, not much problem there. Some indication as to the effect of the strike??

[SASless]

That makes it down about 11% since June 1st or so. It is almost at the 52 week low despite the market hitting a new record today. The next quarterly report to the SEC will be a better indicator of the effect the strike has had.

[GLSNightPilot]

The latest word on the strike is that PHI, apparently trying to retain the pilots who scabbed, is now paying them a bonus of $1,000 per day. Try to tell me the union hasn't had an effect on helicopter pilot wages.

[SASless]

A young vivacious Southern Debutante comes home to the Plantation from the Spring Cotillion in Charleston wearing a lovely Fur Coat.

Her Negro Mammy takes one peek at the Fur Coat and says...."Goodness! Goodness! Miss Lilly....that sure is a purty coat! However did you get that Honey Child?"

Miss Lilly, admiring herself in the mirror responded...."Agnes, I can assure you that "Goodness" had nothing to do with it!":E

GLS....you guys just gotta lay off that hot sauce you are putting on dem mudbugs ya'll been eating at night! Either that or that Roma Rocket wine is messing with yer brain cells!;)

If the Grand a Day is true....then how come the original union demand was going to bankrupt the company?:=

[B Sousa]

"The latest word on the strike is that PHI, apparently trying to retain the pilots who scabbed, is now paying them a bonus of $1,000 per day. Try to tell me the union hasn't had an effect on helicopter pilot wages."
Thats a lot of Jing-Wa for a single engine driver........Also explains why we are losing pilots on the west coast. Someone hit the bottom line. A few months at $1000/day is better than a few years at $200/day doing tours.

Sasless, bet your joke gets the boot.......Skin at this site is so thin I can see through it........

[NickLappos]

B
The only problem with SASless's joke is that it is so very old, but then again, so is he (and me and you).

[SASless]

But it does describe those that value money over principle.....

[212man]

Reminds me of the joke with the punchline, "Doc says as impotant, so as gonna dress impotant"

[B Sousa]

"But it does describe those that value money over principle....."
Principle is great, if you can afford it........

[SirVivr]

SASless:

You saying she got her mink coat the same way minks do?

That's the way my father told it. Can't remember how many years ago.

[B Sousa]

"she got her mink coat the same way minks do?"

Now that was good...

[Gerhardt]

On trial a judge asked her "are you trying to show contempt for this court?" She answered, "On the contrary, your Honor, I was doin' my best to conceal it."

[Drooping Turns]

Ron Powell,

I don't know the answer to all of your questions. I believe that the contract pilot terms are still spreading through the industry and attracting attention. The $500/600/day rate is attractive, but the flexibility in how much one works is, I believe, equally attractive. Many of the tired, semi retired and already retired have perked up and are coming back for well paid, part time work.

The military must not be on a complete stop loss basis. I know of one WO-4 who is retiring Nov.1 and starts class on Nov.2

There will be a number of Robbie instructors hired. Some of the sharper ones will make it. Of the total hired how many will be retained? More than previously because Al has unilaterally implimented his "last best offer" pay raise. The strike bonus will also have an effect.

Part of PHI's retention problem was low pay. Pay raises were held up by the protracted CBA negotiations. As I understand it, another of Local 108's gripes was mandatory workover, partially caused by low retention, which in turn was partially caused by low pay, contract negotiations ect. A viscious circle.

How will PHI train replacements if all instructors are flying the line? Beats me. I've heard a rumor about outsourcing training or hiring flight instructors.

Could Al have thrown all of these strike bonus $ at the pilot work force had they not struck? Sure he could have but would probably have just paid the scale he implimented after supermediation.

I sincerely wish this had gone better for Local 108. I recognize all the benefits that have accrued to the entire helicopter industry becasue of the efforts of Locals 107,108 and 109. A win at PHI would have had even more positive impacts.

I fear a win is not in the offing this time. Debating the roots of a possible failure is another topic.

DT

[GLSNightPilot]

PHI, apparently tired of having Local 107 of the photographer's union taking pictures of all the tied-down aircraft, has hidden them. All the aircraft from Houma and Morgan City have been moved to an 'undisclosed location'. How they plan to service BP and Shell seems to be a mystery. Brand new Robbie CFIs cannot fly the S92 or the C+/C++. There are already plenty of 206 pilots available, and they're mostly useless.

Approximately 22% of the SICs and 19% of the PICs are working in Oil & Gas. About 10% of the flights for the major customers are being done, and these are running 5 to 6 hours late on average. PHI is losing huge chunks of money, and it will be interesting to see if they are truthful on the next SEC filing.

[B Sousa]

"The $500/600/day rate is attractive"

Someone here behind the times. last I heard someone started this week at $700/day. Choose your aircraft and schedule. That certainly has to P/O those on strike.

"There are already plenty of 206 pilots available, and they're mostly useless."

GLS, think maybe you should clarify that. Sounds a bit insulting. Is that one of those, I wouldnt step down to flying a meer 206 things??

"Brand new Robbie CFIs cannot fly the S92 or the C+/C++. "

Sort of a no brainer, but as long as they meet the FAA Licensing requirements, they can be transitioned, albeit someone is going to pay. Look if they are paying say $700 a day for a 206/407 type, you can bet your last peeled shrimp they will pay more for someone to drive the bigger twins.

[GLSNightPilot]

I meant useless in the context of the current strike. 206s can't service deepwater customers, at least the majors. They won't use them out there, and they're too slow for most anyone else. Flying all the 206s in PHI's inventory won't cover even a small percentage of the work, which has mostly shifted to medium and heavy twins.

The S92 and S76C++ require courses at FSI, and those are pretty much booked, not to mention the time it takes. Shuttling 3 or 4 low-time guys through month-long courses isn't going to help with this strikebreaking especially considering what FSI gets for the courses. Plus, the majors require Gulf experience for their PICs, but of course they can waiver that if they don't care about the safety of their employees.

[Drooping Turns]

GLSNightPilot,

I was at Charlie Hammonds FBO at Houma this morning. Between 06:40 and 7:00 am I saw three different S-92's and a S-76 load up with pax and depart for offshore followed by Cougar's contracted S-61. Carol Hammonds says they are running in and out all day long. I question the 10% figure reported to you.

DT

[GLSNightPilot]

3 S92s and one S76, making two trips per day, is a small percentage of a normal Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday. Normally everything they have flies at least 2, usually 3, trips. Normal complement is 5 S92s and 6 S76s, plus specials. BP has stopped all construction and maintenance and pulled in all nonessential personnel, from what we hear.

Just as PHI has moles in the union, we have customers who talk to us. Spin how you like, but PHI is providing only a small percentage of the required flights.

[platinumpure]

"You can bet your last peeled shrimp they will pay more for someone to drive the bigger twins"

The problem for them is that most of the people who are qualified to drive the bigger twins (i.e. time in type, offshore time, and total time) for the major customers. Have enough sense not to sell out for what, $700 a day, as they see how this strike will benefit every pilot in the industry in the long run if it succeeds.

Personally, I wouldn't do it for double that. But that’s just me.

I'm personally not a big fan of unions. However, I'm going to benefit from this strike if it succeeds, therefore the least I can do is not screw the people that are out there trying to make a difference.

[HillerBee]

A search in the FAA reg. database resulted in the following:

206 = 101
407 = 43
BO105 = 17
Astar = 32
BK117 = 5
EC135 = 14
Others = 8

Total light = 220

S76 = 20
S92 = 2
212 = 7
214 = 4
412 = 22
SA330 = 2

Total medium/heavy = 57

Total number of helicopters owned by PHI = 277

[GLSNightPilot]

What you don't see are the medium and heavy aircraft they don't own, but lease. They own the 206s and BO105s, which are mostly 25+ years old. They own a number of S76A models, converted to A++. The 212s are in Africa and Antarctica, none in the GOM. The Astars, BK117, and EC135 are EMS aircraft. The new aircraft - C+, C++, and S92, are mostly leased.

[HillerBee]

I was just curious how many aircraft there where. I already imagined they would also lease. But there are quite a lot of 206's and 407's as well. These seats are quite easy to fill, especially when the standards are lowered.

How is the current situation? Any talks with PHI management? How many guys are still picketing?

[platinumpure]

What happened to the 412's? I didn't see them on the FAA list.

[SASless]

http://www.local108pilots.org/docs/Letter_Pics.pdf

Page 3 and 4 show photographs of PHI aircraft on static display prior to the covert move to some secret location yet to be announced.

Definitely a bunch of 412's setting around in the one photo....and 92's and 76's in the other.

Perhaps some Air Log guys can post some of the Kodak Moments they have been doing as they overfly the PHI bases all day.

[SASless]

Fourth and Fifth ways.....steal'em or repossess them!;)

[SASless]

New Hires at PHI are now being issued Company Shirts originally created and authorized by the Bob Suggs School of Helicopter Management. Each new hire has a choice of seven shirts of either the workday gray and black version or the break week model in Black and White.

Deductions at source for the cost of the shirts is made on a weekly basis until paid off. PHI does include a slight handling fee and finance charge if the employee opts to pay in other than cash at purchase.


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n251/phiproud/T-Shirt.jpg

[B Sousa]

Have not yet heard of much picketing by the mass of Pilots on Strike. Some news or photos there...........or is that not happening.
Only group photo we saw was on the first few days. Hopefully these guys are not sitting this out like a vacation, it could be permanent.

[SASless]

The tee shirts are not issued to new hires but are mostly purchased from the company store from employees own money. Those that are issued are given to Mechanics who are still Union Free and seem to wish to remain so for the present.

Any idea how this "tragic breakdown in labor relations" might have come about?

I don't reckon the HR Nazi's worked at bridging gaps, conducted diversity training, clinics on conflict resolution and that kind of thing do you?

Issuing shirts like the one in the photo to engineers.....and charging others for PHI shirts that do not bear the "Union Free" logo.....damn that is enlightened thinking by someone at the main hangar!:ugh:

[GLSNightPilot]

Regardless of whether they are owned or leased, the registered owner is not PHI.

For someone with absolutely, positively, no business relationshipe whatsoever with PHI, you certainly have a lot of detailed knowledge of things they generally try to keep secret. Methinks I still have to call BS on that.

The customers, who do talk to us, are giving very different numbers on the completion of flights. Someone is exaggerating. I wonder who - those with a huge financial interest in exaggerating, or those with none (the people who ride and dispatch).

[Geoffersincornwall]

Gentlemen
Arguing over task completion rates can be pointless without all the information. In the prevailing circumstances, if I was an oil company logistics coordinator and I was aware that helo capacity was down then I would scale down my programme to something that had some chance of completion. If this is 50% of my original intentions (pre-strike) and I achieve 50% of the new figure then I could legitimately say that I have achieved half of my programme. However this is actually 25% of what I really need.

Get the facts and you will get the true picture.

Here's hoping for a satisfactory conclusion to what will inevitably be a traumatic experience for all.

G

:ok:

[rjsquirrel]

To extend Geofferson's thoughts, if I were an oil company customer, I would bend over backwards to break the strike, since I will pay whatever bills the extra wages raise. It stands to reason that the oil companies will take the pressure off PHI if at all possible, and play a waiting game to see how much the guys on the street can stand.
Pity, I am not sure what the UNion could have done different, they waited 2 1/2 years to do something as it was. It seems that PHI had no intention of settling things, they were just playing a waiting game all along.

[SASless]

This might work also as an efficency exericise for the oil company....now they might even have to plan some of their flights instead of merely whistling up another cab....but somehow I fail to see that happening on the long term. Boudreaux likes his fishing.

[northseaspray]

GLSNightPilotRegardless of whether they are owned or leased, the registered owner is not PHI.

For someone with absolutely, positively, no business relationshipe whatsoever with PHI, you certainly have a lot of detailed knowledge of things they generally try to keep secret. Methinks I still have to call BS on that.



industry insider
Join Date: 28th September 2006

PostsTotal Posts: 12 (1.27 posts per day) Find all posts by industry insider (http://www.pprune.org/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=154091)Find all threads started by industry insider (http://www.pprune.org/forums/search.php?do=process&showposts=0&starteronly=1&exactname=1&searchuser=industry+insider) Referrals: 0



Walks like a duck, talks like a duck... and only posts on the PHI thread. Go figure.

From what I've read, he's probably not worth whatever they are paying him.

[mikelimapapa]

The one thing I don't get is all of the oil companies have so much money they don't know what to do with it. In the long run, wouldn't it be cheaper for them to buy up PHI, Air Log, Era, etc. and each have their own fleet to satisfy their transport needs. I mean, if your contracting out to an operator, the operator has to make a profit, so naturally your paying for costs plus profit margin. Why not buy the helicopters and get the services at cost?

[rjsquirrel]

northseaspray,

I think some inside word and opposite point of view is healthy, I wish Al Gonsoulin would post his thoughts, too.

I always thought the web was great, this thread and others like it prove how valuable it is to have open forums for us to debate, rant and discuss.

[GLSNightPilot]

In the long run, wouldn't it be cheaper for them to buy up PHI, Air Log, Era, etc. and each have their own fleet to satisfy their transport needs.

It has been tried a couple of times. Exxon had its own air force, and decided it was cheaper in the long run to lease. Tenneco did the same. If you have your own aircraft, you are responsible for maintenance, for spares, for parts, for mechanics, pilots, dispatchers, flight following, and everything else, including insurance. If a helicopter breaks, you can't use it. As it is, they all get free spare aircraft and don't have to worry about replacements. Economy of scale makes a big difference. The only company currently having its own fleet is Chevron, and they do some Part 135 work on the side to help make some money.

[SASless]

Northseaspray....step to the head of the class and collect your Gold Star!

US term for such folks is ...... "Buster"!

Hired gun who is hired by some outfit fighting a union....whose sole job is to use every means possible to serve their customer's goal.

The bait was dangled....and swallowed hook line and sinker.

Now for the latest Gossip.....

All S-92's are flying....thanks primarily to more than a few Sikorsky Production Test Pilots manning the cockpits.

All of the little birds are flying......but for all intents and purposes....the 76 and 412 fleet are not.

Union solidarity is holding.....

AL G is quoted by some to have made the statement...."I will bust the Union no matter what it costs....no matter the damage to PHI."

If that is the case.....I hope the other Share Holders take note and hire some sharp Lawyers....it might cost the ol' boy more than inventing Chicken Lips.


Hey Nick....since you are no longer beholding to really senior management at Sikorsky.....can you tell us what the policies were about Sikorsky pilots helping out as strike busters was when you were there? Who picks up their salary.....Sikorsky or PHI? Who signs the contract....the Sikorsky pilots or Sikorsky itself? When you were out flying with the customer....did you and another Sikorsky pilot do Revenue runs or was it always one Company pilot and one Sikorsky pilot?

[B Sousa]

"Hey Nick....since you are no longer beholding to really senior management at Sikorsky.....can you tell us what the policies were about Sikorsky pilots helping out as strike busters was when you were there? Who picks up their salary.....Sikorsky or PHI? Who signs the contract....the Sikorsky pilots or Sikorsky itself? When you were out flying with the customer....did you and another Sikorsky pilot do Revenue runs or was it always one Company pilot and one Sikorsky pilot?"

SASless
Since Nick is only one of a few who have balls enough to go by name. I certainly think your putting him on the spot. Thats getting a little internal about another company. Sort of unfair in my estimation. Am I wrong??

[ferrydude]

It has been tried a couple of times. Exxon had its own air force, and decided it was cheaper in the long run to lease. Tenneco did the same. If you have your own aircraft, you are responsible for maintenance, for spares, for parts, for mechanics, pilots, dispatchers, flight following, and everything else, including insurance. If a helicopter breaks, you can't use it. As it is, they all get free spare aircraft and don't have to worry about replacements. Economy of scale makes a big difference. The only company currently having its own fleet is Chevron, and they do some Part 135 work on the side to help make some money.

Exxon Air Force? Erm, you mean IHTI? Crewed, maintained and managed by PHI personnel;)

[NickLappos]

SASless,
You know how tough it is, don't you? I have always played straight with ppruners, and can't stop now. Thanks,BSousa, but I will field this one now.

Reminder - I speak for nobody but me, now or in the past.

I said earlier on this thread that it would be hard to tell my boss that I wouldn't do my job, if I was directly told to do it. I would possibly head out to the helo, after I explained to him in clear terms what it was doing to me and to the guys I respect so much. (I say possibly because I think you can only be positive about what you would do when it is not theoretical, when your skin is in the game, like it is for the strikers.)
Test pilots are on the management staff at levels like very senior engineering supervisors, so it not just in name, but in grade, and in the way they are treated. You yourself said you crossed picket lines when in management (but you brought them donuts, and I bet you even took one.)

[Gomer Pylot]

In the past, Exxon had its own aviation department. When it got too expensive, and the Feds hammered them for poor maintenance, they went to IHTI.