ppl training.

[aviator001]

hi guys. just a quick question, any help would be great. im looking to do my ppl in the cheapest jaa or caa approved school known to man. so far ormond beach looks good, (never mind all the bad reviews it got). could anyone tell me of a cheaper school that they know of. it costs £3,700 or 5k in euro approx.:ok:

[Whirlygig]

This question may be better off in Private Flying.

However, cheapest is not necessarily cheapest in the long run. The price you've quoted assumes you pass in 45 hours. What if you don't? Have you factored in accommodation etc.

But, also consider that if finances are tight now, are you going to be able to afford to maintain the licence.

You get what you pay for!

Cheers

Whirls

..and as I was typing ... pooooof ... it's been moved!

[mcgoo]

I found OBA to be the cheapest, especially when you consider whats included, ppl, night, accommodation, visa fees and transfers

[aviator001]

sorry but where is OBA again? how much is it and what did you get for that? did you study before you went out there? thanks

[aviator001]

im sorry that was a stupid question i know where OBA is. i just didint think

[BA123]

dont all the comments about OBA put you off ? Just wandering cause im thinking of that place aswell

[tiggermoth]

I looked beyond the negative comments and looked at the positive ones too. I'm looking forward to having a really intensive flying course. The 'boot camp' idea sounds hard but great! (if that makes any sense?). A bit of discipline and a bit of swallowing ones pride has never hurt anyone.

I'm booked for the end of October. Bring it on.

[aviator001]

i had 2 friends who went to florida together, 1 studied groungschool before they went, the other didnt. the guy won studied came home with a ppl the other guy just ended up having an expensive holiday. so my advice is be prepared, be confident and enjoy the experience of flying and if you make it through all the better and if not then maybe it just wasnt ment to be..:ok:

[ormus55]

from what ive read here in the past month or so, and talking to various ppls, doing the ground school here in the uk first seems the best/sensible route.

if and when i get round to it, thats what i shall be doing.

[aviator001]

well my friend who studied before me went out to florida done jaa groundschool and passed 3 out of 4 1st attempt and was told on arrival in florida that he would have to it all again out there..

[gcolyer]

If you do the JAA exams before you go to florida, and take a part completed CAA application form with the exam sign off's then the school cannot make you do them again.

[aviator001]

do the same rules apply for jaa aswell do you know? is there a name for that form?

[gcolyer]

I cant remember the name of the form. You apply for your JAA license from the CAA. Your local flying club should be able to supply you the form, infact they have to sign the exam passes.

[worldpilot]

Based on my experience at OBA, I would recommend the following if you anticipate going to OBA.
First purchase the study pack and study for the exams before going to OBA.
Then when onsite at OBA, you should take the exams there. Thats included in the fees anyway. At the same time, interacting with others onsite might help you pass the exam easier. Make sure that you pass the exams within 2 weeks of your arrival. Thats actually possible if you have really studied for the exams intensively. Dont forget the confuser. It is a valuable resource.:rolleyes:

Good luck.

WP

[Pitts2112]

do my ppl in the cheapest jaa or caa approved school known to man. so far ormond beach looks good, (never mind all the bad reviews it got)

I have to say I've never understood this approach. Do you do everything in life in the cheapest way possible? Do you do all your shopping in The Pound Store? Do you buy the cheapest car possible, the cheapest shoes, the cheapest clothes, the cheapest tools? Did it ever occur to ask WHY this flying school is the cheapest? You're willing to throw your good money (and your safety) after other peoples' bad by ignoring "all the bad reviews it got". You don't sound like the brightest bulb in the box and I'm not sure your approach is one that's going to see you live to be an old pilot.

Why is it that people that will make a perfectly rational decision about value for money spending when it comes to something like a pair of jeans but are more than willing to launch themselves into the air with an outfit that is simply the cheapest? I'd much rather wear a pair of low quality jeans and know I'm getting value for money in the quality stakes with my training outfit.

Pitts2112
Economical, but not miserly, private pilot

[tiggermoth]

You're right in a sense, decisions based on cost alone are usually prone to dissapointment. Best "value" is the key.

Choosing something that is "the cheapest" that still attains a recognized international standard is perfectly valid.

For example, a dust mask with a BSI kite mark bought from a pound shop is just as good for the purpose as one bought for £3.99 from a large DIY store with large orange lettering.

Buying comparable product without recognized standards though is very difficult. That's why standards were created.

Large supermarkets can sell items cheap because they have a high turnover of stock. In the same way, the largest flying training facility also has economy of scale.

[gcolyer]

Did it ever occur to ask WHY this flying school is the cheapest?

I don't want to start an argument..but why do you think it is the cheapest?

I personaly don't think it is poor quality/service or standards. A lot of the Florida schools are similar in price. OBA stands out more as it throws in a load of niggly extras.

1) It includes accomodation.
2) It includes exam fees.
3) Free airport transfers

Florida is cheaper because:

1) Cheaper fuel
2) No landing fees
3) FAA is much much more GA friendly and cheaper

[tangovictor]

well my friend who studied before me went out to florida done jaa groundschool and passed 3 out of 4 1st attempt and was told on arrival in florida that he would have to it all again out there..

is this thread a windup ? if your friend has completed this, why not ask him !

[aviator001]

is this thread a windup ? if your friend has completed this, why not ask him !

well im sorry if it pisses you off, me using this site for its very purpose, to gather information and get advise. yes i have talked to him (obviously) but before i pay out thousands of euro i want to get a few peoples views mate....

[aviator001]

and my friend pitts2112 iv asked a question looking for advise not abuse from you who doesn't even know me. i work in the airline industry, safety is the most important thing in my day to day life. and has anyone ever died in OBA while flying? there are rules for all aircraft op's and they must operate under them, the same as anyone else does. ;)

[tangovictor]

well im sorry if it pisses you off, me using this site for its very purpose, to gather information and get advise. yes i have talked to him (obviously) but before i pay out thousands of euro i want to get a few peoples views mate....

very little ever P's me off, seems I touched a raw nerve !

[Pitts2112]

and my friend pitts2112 iv asked a question looking for advise not abuse from you who doesn't even know me. i work in the airline industry, safety is the most important thing in my day to day life. and has anyone ever died in OBA while flying? there are rules for all aircraft op's and they must operate under them, the same as anyone else does. ;)

I've got no problem with any of that, but you started your post by mentioning that you were looking to do your training at the cheapest place in the world, not the best value, and were willing to discount (rather than evaluate the validity of) negative reviews. It just didn't stack up to a very good judgement process. If that's the case with your approach to your PPL, how are you going to approach currency, maintenance, etc, etc, etc.

Pitts2112

[aviator001]

my plan is to do a cheap ppl in a jaa approved school and then do my distance learning atpl's here in ireland. i only want to do the ppl cheap because i have a budget for my training and i want to be able to pick and choose better places for ME IR etc. i do not see what is wrong with this decision. at the end of the day, a ppl licence is the same qualification if i pay 10k here or 5k over there. i feel a good IR school is better that the most reccommended ppl out there if i can only afford to go all out on 1 or the other....

[aviator001]

and tangovictor you haven't hit a raw nerve at all. your just been arrogant coming on to this thread and making snide comments, so if you have nothing good to say then dont bother your :mad: writing in..

[Champagne Anyone?]

AV001.....

You wouldn't happen to be DUB GREG now would you?? Come on be truthful now...

His attitude is exactly the same as yours, in fact his posts are in the same tone as yours... On the same subjects, he is doing the exact same trip to Spain as you are, the distance learning bit.....


I think you've been rumbled mate!:= :=



Try being more friendly to those who are trying to help and stop balling them out if their answers don't agree with your opinions.


I'll await all you have to throw at me but have a think, if you feel the need to throw insults at me (possibly) and others on here, how will you manage to pass the MCC? Presuming you know what that is....:ugh: :ugh:


I could put you in touch with a club who do a JAR PPL(A) (45hrs) for £3375.00, in the UK, with excellent credentials but somehow, I don't think they would want you.

[Pitts2112]

my plan is to do a cheap ppl in a jaa approved school and then do my distance learning atpl's here in ireland. i only want to do the ppl cheap because i have a budget for my training and i want to be able to pick and choose better places for ME IR etc. i do not see what is wrong with this decision. at the end of the day, a ppl licence is the same qualification if i pay 10k here or 5k over there. i feel a good IR school is better that the most reccommended ppl out there if i can only afford to go all out on 1 or the other....

Flawed logic, mate. Your initial training as a pilot is the single most important aspect of your aviation career. If you don't get a good grasp of the fundamentals, you'll be wasting your time on ME and IR. And it's not how much money you planned on spending that prompted my answer, but your attitude to how you spend it. Nothing you've said in this post has caused me to change my original opinion.

Train at a place that is economical and honest (as you say, no need to spend £10K when it can be done adequately for £5) and look carefully at their factilities and aircraft. If they are cheap because they skimp on investment in the machines, you can bet the rest of the operation will follow suit.

Pitts2112

[aviator001]

i dont know who dub greg is and im not planning to go to spain, as i said i intent to do my atpls here in ireland. i really dont have an attitude problem, it just annoys me to look for help and get some smart ass telling me to talk to other people. have you trained in this school in england yourself? it that an all inclusive package? accom txfrs etc? and yes you are probably right, initial training is fundamentally important and maybe cheap is not the way forward, but i am here to pick up info, so thanks..

[Gertrude the Wombat]

i really dont have an attitude problem
It'll be interesting to see whether your instructors agree with your assessment on that point once you start training.

[aviator001]

yeah it will be most interesting alright, i will let you know how it goes. i assure you i would not be in the position i am in if i had an attitude problem, i run an out station for 1 of europes biggest carriers and i have never been told by anyone that i have an attitude problem. look this is begining to feel like a personal vandetta here, i onld want advise lads, apoligies if i come across bad but i didnt start anything here except for the thread!!:ok:

[tiggermoth]

Lovely flying weather today.

[smarthawke]

Having worked at two busy UK based flying schools for the last 20 years, almost without fail those that have attained (obtained?) their licences in the USA have needed 10 hours or so of further training before they reach an acceptable standard for them to be lent (ie hired) an aircraft.

The cost advantage disappears immediately and it isn't sour grapes - the aircraft owners like to try and keep them in one piece!

[mcgoo]

I was US trained and never came close to doing those sort of hours, I had a 1 hour checkride and thats it, also most of the people I trained with did an hour or two and were deemed good enough, so for us the cost difference was great

[aviator001]

really and would that have been the case with all or at least a large percentage of american trained pplers? what school have you worked at? and would you reccommend any of them to?

[tiggermoth]

those that have attained (obtained?) their licences in the USA have needed 10 hours or so of further training before they reach an acceptable standard for them to be lent (ie hired) an aircraft.

Yes, I suppose that sounds about right as most UK students do not complete after 45 hours training, so 45 US training hours and 10 hours UK training hours is still more cost effective, and it gives the PPL the benefit of US flying too. I'd agree it's best to budget for some hours of dual training in the UK (or Ireland) on completion.

[tangovictor]

and tangovictor you haven't hit a raw nerve at all. your just been arrogant coming on to this thread and making snide comments, so if you have nothing good to say then dont bother your :mad: writing in..

oh my, arrogant now, and snide, you will make some instructor a very happy man with your attitude " mate "
let us all know if / when you ever pass, and we will all avoid ryan air like the plague :eek:

[JP1]

I was seriously considering OBA for my PPL, although the problem was going to be fitting it around my work. I have now decided to train in the UK in a bulldog 120, so not the cheapest UK option.

However, having had a 30 minute flight and afterwards picking up all the study coursework, I think it would have been an extremely tall order to complete the course in 4 weeks in the US let alone 3!

Writing this I am under no illusions that I have to put in a lot of work, both in the air and on the ground to obtain the licence.

I'm not a complete novice to aviation, having spent some time gliding (40hrs), although this was a few years ago. Also I have worked in both Human factors (The RAF IAM, alas no more) and 8 years in Military navigation (GPS INS systems). So a lot of the academic study will not be entirely new.

One worry for me was that if you were to get fatigued early on in an intensive course, with no rest the pressure increases further and hence the fatigue increase to the point where you cannot cope. Think of your first flying lesson, if you haven't mastered some aspect of the lesson, tough, your onto the next lesson until the workload increases and you simply cannot fly the aircraft.

Training in the UK is going to be more relaxed and enjoyable.

So its a trade off between cost and stress!

On another note the reason why I'm training at a higher cost in the bulldog is that its crosswind limit is 35knts and the Cessna 152 15knts. I'm hopeful not many days will be lost to high winds.

[Crash one]

I have followed numerous threads on numerous forums where advice & opinions are asked for. Why is it that so many degenerate into a slanging match. Aviator001, people are trying to help you here, they are trying to give you the benefit of their extensive experience. If it isn't what you want to hear then I suggest it is you who should not bother writing in.
I expect I shall be metaphorically kicked in the teeth, but so be it.
Good luck with the brain cell collection.
By the way there is a button on the keyboard called "Shift" there is one on both sides.

[JP1]

I was checking out flying clubs at the weekend, ( already having flown for an hour at Blackbushe, although I discounted it as a place to learn). Turned up at the new club, not intending to fly, but to speak to someone regarding their PPL course in their Cessna. Low and behold 5 minutes later I'm off in the bulldog with an instructor. His pre-arranged student kicking his heels on the ground, probably wishing he had choosen the bulldog since his Cessna was not going anywhere with a 25knt crosswind!

I originally considered the US for an intensive course, to get the PPL quickly and relatively free from weather constraints. I'm hoping now to "try" and get 4hrs a week flying and maybe the PPL in January. Just maybe paying that little extra for a more capable aircraft will help me achieve that... unless of course this winter we have light winds but cloud at 500ft:{

[dom462]

Anyone know a good price ppl course in the UK, preferably north england? So far I've found Multiflight in Leeds for £4574, anything better value than that?

[tiggermoth]

Dom,

That sounds very good value indeed! That's cheaper all in that going to the US to train (and much less hassle).