Using a mate's aircraft

[J.A.F.O.]

A purely hypothetical question but if a mate said "Why don't you fly my aeroplane, just give me £XX an hour to cover costs."

Could you do it? Would they need a public C of A? Are they, effectively, renting the aircraft to you?

Or is it fine?

[bookworm]

Would they need a public C of A?

Yes. Or with EASA, it would need to be operated as a public transport aircraft (tech log, C of Maint Rev etc.).

Are they, effectively, renting the aircraft to you?

Yes.

[S-Works]

What about if they make no charge and you put your own fuel and oil in as you go i.e a genuine loan of the aircraft?

I havew always kept mine on PT or now the EASA equivalent specifically for the purpose of loaning it to friends when the need arose.

[DubTrub]

...and make sure they are also insured to fly it.

[gcolyer]

When I lived on the Isle of Man i used to fly my mates AC's all the time. I just paid my own fuel...sometimes (damn generous mate most of the time)

[bookworm]

What about if they make no charge and you put your own fuel and oil in as you go i.e a genuine loan of the aircraft?

I can't see a problem with that, can you?

[IO540]

What if the two people swapped planes?

[Mike Cross]

Go read the ANO.

You can use someone else's aircraft providing no "valuable consideration" is given or promised for the flight or for the purpose of the flight.

If you own at leat 5% of the aircraft you can pay towards the direct operating costs.

If he lends the a/c to you and you put fuel in you'd be OK. If he lends you the a/c and you pay a credit into his fuel account for more fuel than you used you'd not be OK.

If you do a deal with him that says "I'll pay for your ski holiday if you let me have 7 Hrs in your a/c" then that 's probably illegal because valuable consideration is being promised.

This advice is worth exactly what you have paid for it.

Mike

[shortstripper]

It's insurance that is the bug in the ointment now though. Unlike some microlight insurers that will insure the pilot to fly any microlight, most GA ones will only insure the aircraft. If an "any pilot" clause is added, then fine, otherwise you'd have to be named on the insurance to fly your mates aeroplane.

I'd be interested to know what owners of more than one aircraft do? If I owned two similar aircraft I'd have to insure both, even though I can only fly one at a time ... seems rather unfair to me :hmm: Still I suppose it's the same with cars, unless you have fleet insurance ... can you get that for aeroplanes? (dreaming of that lottery win and the Spitfire, Hurricane and DH Dove parked in the hangar :cool: ).

SS

[IO540]

I don't think the ANO deals with swapping of planes.

The question is whether giving away your plane and getting one back in return constitutes receiving valuable consideration.

Presumably, if it did amount to VC then one would need to actually transfer ownership, for the period of the swap, with a suitable document.

Insurance is an entirely separate matter and IME can be dealt with.

[drauk]

Unlike some microlight insurers that will insure the pilot to fly any microlight, most GA ones will only insure the aircraft.

This wasn't my experience insuring my own aircraft. Named pilots versus any pilot with my permission made very little (can't remember how much) to the cost of the policy. Adding the restriction that they were at least as experienced as I am reduced the premium a bit and that one I did go for because it didn't seem very restrictive as I am not likely to be lending it to anyone less experienced.

[stiknruda]

I renewed mine last week on the Pitts and saved 25% by taking away any pilot with more than 100 hours on type. It's just me now and I've never had a lower premium for the same level of cover.

Delighted with Haywards, yet again.


Stik

[DubTrub]

more than 100 hours on type Am I reading that right?:ooh:

[stiknruda]

DT - yes, last year I went half way and insured it for guys with >200 hours on type. Nobody else flew it - Stig McGoo flew it once the previous year. Didn't make much sense to pay an extra £350.

If I want someone else to fly it, I'll speak to them about an MTA (mid term adjustment).

Stik

[DubTrub]

Righty-o, I think I see what you mean...you previously had it insured for pilots with more than 100 hours on type, but this year you removed that from the policy.