Hercs not fitted with suppresant foam

[JessTheDog]

According to C4 News (no link yet) only one C130 has been fitted with fire suppressant foam since John Reid's promise was made (only after severe pressure from relatives of the deceased and ex-serving aircrew), and this is sitting in a hanger somewhere in Cambridgeshire.

Six months later, crews are risking their necks in aircraft that are, by the MoD's own admission, not safe enough.

Criminal negligence?

[The Gorilla]

No such thing within the MOD. Above the law don't you know!:(

[Flyingskygod]

I saw this report too and it really angered me. Wasn't shocked when they said no one was available for a comment. Typical really.

They spend money on the BLiars new aircraft, giving money to immigrants etc but won't spend it on making us safe.

They need to get their priorities straight. How many more people have to die for them to get their fingers out.

I'll stop now as I feel a huge rant coming on and that's not good for my blood pressure!

[nigegilb]

Here is a link to the C4 news website. The Herc report has now been posted.

http://www.channel4.com/news/

[GlosMikeP]

No such thing within the MOD. Above the law don't you know!:(
No they're not, as I was reminded by a Health and Safety chap on a course I did at Bristol Uni few years back. Crown immunity does not extend to the individuals.

After the second big explosion and fire at an MOD stores in Shropshire (Donnington?) some years back there was serious discussion about prosecuting the then SoS for Defence.

Apparently the H&S inspector started by interviewing the Col, insisting on sitting on the BOI (overruling the Col and MOD who said there was no need and it wasn't his business anyway) per his legal authority. When it became known the H&S issues that had caused the fire had been mentioned to Western Region command the H&S guy dropped everything at the stores and went directly to the General at W Region to ask why nothing had been done. Cutting to the quick, the Gen said he'd mentioned the problem to MOD, but got no response and so had no funding. So next stop for H&S guy was MOD and on up the chain of command.

No cash is not a legal defence.

[Kengineer-130]

as usual then :* ..... promise the world deliver **** all :mad: , it's a disgrace, but hey, who cares, its not like its funding for somthing important like life saving equiptment is it? :mad:

[Wipeout]

If the government can't afford the £600,000 per Herk (according to C4) and all the other equipment needed by the British Forces, perhaps it should re-think its foreign policy. Regardless of whether or not the Iraqi conflict is justified, with the current overstretch of forces, insuffiecient funding it is nothing short of negligence. Can you imagine if a civilian airliner crashed because a safety feature wasn't fitted? No matter how many times the airline may cite 'lack of funds' or 'couldn't arrange maintainence due to a busy flying program', the company heads would still probably (and rightly) end up prosecuted.

[chappie]

i think that apart from learning to prioritise funds as there was no need to spend £600,000 per plane had they fitted it when it was offered previously., the MoD should learn to think of some original statements other than rehashing old statements that have been trotted out time and time again. i think it is a massive insult to those of you still working hard in the armed forces that they can't be bothered to even show that they take the issue seriously and are prepared to put an effort into how they present their side of the arguement. surely, making a half hearted attempt must show, hopefully, they think what's the point as we've been shown up to be the disorganised organisation we are. it also highlights they can't be bothered to put effort into a statement so they sure as hell can't put any effort into protecting their troops. i hope i've shown them up for the sham that they are, and i hope that today there are a few stained pants in the chain of high offices responsible for this farce. they haven't taken lives of XV179 and the needs of their families seriously so please heed my warning, there is no care for your families should the worse happen to you. look what i have had to do to make them face up to their failings!

[Wipeout]

Agree completely Chappie :D

[airborne_artist]

The clip is here (http://www.channel4.com/player/v2/asx/showvideofeature.jsp?id=show:1657:2740).

[nigegilb]

HTV West have picked up on the story and it will be a news item from lunch time onwards. Key words last night were the description provided by Liam Fox that this is a national scandal. I completely agree. Once you have seen the video you will understand why it should have been a no brainer. USAF saw it as a no brainer 40 years ago. Not fitting it in RAF ac til now is nothing short of negligence.

[flipster]

Nige/Chappie,

Agreed - great report - well done both and all.:ok: :ok:

Criminal negligence v corporate manslaughter - both look the same to me!!

I just hope nothing happens to further slow down the Herc ESF fitment programme at marshalls.

Now that Gordon Brown has got out his cheque-book, what about the other aircraft and threats, or is he in line for a manslaughter charge as well?????:=

Flipster


Mods - I suspect that this thread could easily sit well with 'Parliamentary Questions'??

[My Dad's Little Boy]

No they're not, as I was reminded by a Health and Safety chap on a course I did at Bristol Uni few years back. Crown immunity does not extend to the individuals.

I might be wrong but there's no such thing as Crown Immunity and hasn't been so since the early nineties. I stand to be corrected.

MDLB

[nigegilb]

MDLB,
You are quite right. This is all about combat immunity. More later.

NigeG

[GolfSierra]

Indeed there is Crown Immunity (but not against individuals), they simply give it a different name so they can claim crown immunity no longer exists.

There have been a number of cases over the past 5 years where the Crown Censure process has been followed. This is used where a prosecution would have taken place where it not for Crown Immunity.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/Prosecutions/documents/crowncensures.htm

Edited to update link

[flipster]

So if we could prosecute individual politicians, or even 'civil serpents' in the MoD, under HSE rules, this would be like doing Al Capone for tax evasion....






..... still, this was quite effective IIRC!!?

[subbsonic]

Is there a website for the ESF campaign?

As a former Fat Albert Platingum hammock class SLF cardholder, I think more questions need to be answered on this topic:(

[vfr into cloud]

no need, ESF in both K and J, better late than never:ugh:

[The Nr Fairy]

GS:

As of time of posting the raw link you have doesn't seem to work. Is this the same thing ?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/prosecutions/documents/crowncensures.htm

[GolfSierra]

TNF: Yes it is the same info, I have updated my earlier post.