View Full Version : Unacceptable flight crew behaviour
Final 3 Greens
17th Sep 2006, 13:03
Quite rightly, cabin crew and pilots comment on this fourm about unacceptable pax behaviour, especially business travellers who iginore the safety briefing.
Yesterday I took a half hour flight on a regional jet, over mountainous terrain, with convective activity in the area. The climb and cruise was mainly smooth, with the odd little bump, but the captain left the seatbelt sign on throughout the flight and released the crew member to serve refreshments.
So far so good, you are probably wondering why the fuss is all about.
I was sitting across the aisle from a captain of the same airline, who was positioning with a FO, both in uniform, hats, epaulletes, the works.
They were discussing a newspaper article about their airline (how it managed to lose over €200m in a year) and decided to talk right through the safety briefing, ignoring the FA who was standing in the aisle right next to us.
Since they obviusly knew the briefing, they decided to raise their voices to carry on with the conversation, to the extent that I couldn't hear the PA. I looked at the FA, who just shrugged his shoulders and looked sheepish.
In the climb, the FA gave out sandwiches etc, but not coffee on the first run.
Our hero couldn't wait for the second run, so he unbuckled himself, went into the galley and poured a cup, even though the belt sign was still on.
I would be interested in what the forum thinks about this type of behaviour and what sort of example it sets to the passengers?
Extremely inconsiderate behaviour, personally I would have asked the FA to tell them to be quiet. That said I've never seen a positioning crew behave in such a way during the safety briefing, though I have seen them wandering around ignoring the seat belt sign (the positioning FC that is, rather than positioning CC)
From the subject of their conversation I'm guessing this was an Alitalia flight.
Final 3 Greens
17th Sep 2006, 13:59
SXB
Alitaia
You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment :}
I thought about saying something, but the look on the FA's face told its own story - he was stuck between an annoyed premium pax and someone with seniority in his own company.
Under the circumstances, it was a no brainer as he looked like a decent young lad who didn't need to be put through the grinder.
lexxity
17th Sep 2006, 15:00
Disgusting behaviour in my opinion. They should know better and set an example. I've never seen a positioning crew member pull that kind of stunt over here in the UK. Did you write in and let the airline know?
A2QFI
17th Sep 2006, 15:59
I always listen to the safety briefing, as a matter of courtesy to the person who is giving it! Also, there have been some changes lately; some aircraft now have life jackets stowed in the overhead area where the lights, call buttons and drop down 02 masks are. Worth knowing!
I was on an FR flight a few weeks ago and a passenger who was pointedly reading a newspaper, was asked firmly by the crew member giving the briefing to please stop reading and pay attention. It needed saying and was done firmly but politely. I have flown hundreds of passenger sectors but I still listen!
I appreciate that what I am saying does not address the problem of crew members on positioning flights failing to pay attention to safety briefings being given by the operating crew!
flybywire
17th Sep 2006, 16:25
SXB
Alitaia
You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment :}
I thought about saying something, but the look on the FA's face told its own story - he was stuck between an annoyed premium pax and someone with seniority in his own company.
Under the circumstances, it was a no brainer as he looked like a decent young lad who didn't need to be put through the grinder.
It's a very difficult situation. You have to deal with the safety briefing while trying to shush the people who are talking loud.
Having to do this to someone from your own company is even worse.
Happens frequently on BA domestic flights, (crew commuting after a duty) and I have to say I take none of that :mad: . In a really bad case I even reported a cabin crew for behaving in an inappropriate way while wearing the company uniform (and looking like "one of us"....the passengers didn't realise he was paxing). However as I said it's very difficult in a fraction of a second to find the appropriate words to shush a flight crew in front of the pax. I am not scared of doing it and always try to do it in the nicest and quietest way possible, but I know of people who wouldn't dare.
As for the selfish behaviour to follow the trolley down and being impatient...well...typical behaviour of a spoilt brat. Sorry, but I have been flying for many years and never had to witness something like this. Until last week, when I was paxing in the F/D (no seats available) on a 40min flight and the FO started calling impatiently the very busy crew as "he was hungry". Note: his meal was cooking in the oven. We had had a delay of 45mins on the ground waiting for the aeroplane to land and the poor 35y.o. baby didn't think of getting himself a sandwich....breakfast wasn't included in his room so he didn't eat...poor thing....
I felt so sorry for the crew and for my other half who was flying with him. Sure enough he gave the FO a bit of a "CRM chat" on the turnaround. From the next sector onwards mr FO went to the galley himself to get what he wanted exacly when he wanted it- problem solved.
If I had been a FA on that flight I would have kindly shown the person involved where the brewer was. If he was so impatient not to wait for the 2nd round then he could have made one himself.
FBW
PS:I am not normally this bitter, but it's the few people like this who spoil the great work that many do every day. Also I feel a bit sickie, so I hope you won't start killing me with defensive responses ;) :E
Carnage Matey!
17th Sep 2006, 20:58
Until last week, when I was paxing in the F/D (no seats available) on a 40min flight and the FO started calling impatiently the very busy crew as "he was hungry". Note: his meal was cooking in the oven. We had had a delay of 45mins on the ground waiting for the aeroplane to land and the poor 35y.o. baby didn't think of getting himself a sandwich....breakfast wasn't included in his room so he didn't eat...poor thing....
Of course the cabin crew always get themselves breakfast in the hotel and don't wait until they are on board to eat. And our ever punctual and conscientious cabin crew would never fail to consider the fact that on a 45 minute flight you've only got about 5 minutes in the cruise in which to eat before it gets really busy on the flight deck. They wouldn't dream of bringing your meal up with 15 minutes to go and saying "Sorry, we were really busy", would they?:E
Carnage Matey
On a 45 minute flight I wouldn't have thought the CC even get 5 minutes, the fact that the Captain gave the FO in question a 'CRM chat' at the turnaround probably tells its own story.
Carnage Matey!
17th Sep 2006, 21:35
Mmmmm, I guess you don't work for BA then SXB. Any idea what a 'Dranse day' is?
No idea, why don't you enlighten us ?
flybywire
17th Sep 2006, 23:47
Of course the cabin crew always get themselves breakfast in the hotel and don't wait until they are on board to eat. And our ever punctual and conscientious cabin crew would never fail to consider the fact that on a 45 minute flight you've only got about 5 minutes in the cruise in which to eat before it gets really busy on the flight deck. They wouldn't dream of bringing your meal up with 15 minutes to go and saying "Sorry, we were really busy", would they?:E
He knew the food was still in the oven. He could have waited till after landing.
His behaviour was unacceptable, even for me (and I am ne of those who spoils her flight crew). 3 crew on an extremely busy flight isn't a joke.
flybywire
17th Sep 2006, 23:48
Mmmmm, I guess you don't work for BA then SXB. Any idea what a 'Dranse day' is?
I work for BA and do not know what that means:confused:
Sean Dell
18th Sep 2006, 10:11
one out - night stop - one back
flybywire
18th Sep 2006, 10:20
one out - night stop - one back
AH...never heard of that, we don't do those trips (I wish we did), it must be golden runway slang then....:ouch:
flybywire
18th Sep 2006, 10:31
Of course the cabin crew always get themselves breakfast in the hotel and don't wait until they are on board to eat.
Totally not the point here, however we do get our breakfast in the hotel before reporting, at least one allowance we have and we do use it.
Believe me, the flight crew who complain about not being "served" properly here at LGW are very, very few, and we all know who they are.
I can only remember the face of some bus boys when they first came to operate out of LGW last year, they couldn't believe how many cups of tea and how much food we gave them.Bless them!!! :)
However a 35 year old first officer should be responsible enough to see and understand things not always go according to plan and that on a 40min full flight and only 3 crew sometimes it might be difficult to "serve" him in time, especially when there's a meal to cook in the oven for 25 minutes. He could have waited till after landing at that point.
He was becoming a pain and wouldn't take the fact that the crew were halfway down the cabin and very busy. He was giving the captain a hard time too.I then decided to get out to the galley and prepare the food myself (half cooked, that is, but that was his wish) although I had to ask the operating crew's permission as I was not operating. Also I felt really angry as all the passengers could see at the front was someone in civvies fiddling with galley, ovens and drinks. To them I looked like and ordinary passenger. who was getting access to the F/D.
No curtains are fitted on some of our 737s so there was no way I could have done that without being seen.
Say what you like, but I am glad he got a good CRM chat at the end of it. Totally unacceptable behaviour from a man who should be responsible enough to fly a machine with 150+ people on board.
Ok, Carnage Matey, now we've established exactly what a 'Dranse day' is what relevence does it have to a FO acting in an unreasonable manner ?
Carnage Matey!
18th Sep 2006, 12:32
The relevance is that at LHR (which I accept this isn't) the cabin crew are frequently on a Dranse day and hence are not too concerned about eating on board the aircraft. They sometimes fail to appreciate that the flight crew are not on a Dranse day but will be doing a minimum time turnaround with an aircraft change on to a long sector with no meal loaded, hence if they don't eat on that first sector they don't eat for hours. Sometimes you've got to prod the slow ones if you want to eat or else your food will be slung in (and straight back out again) at FL100 on the approach. Thats if you're don't get the "It's cooking......it's in the oven.......it'll be 5 minutes.....we're just busy right now.........Oh sorry, we forgot to cook it" scenario! (Yes it has happened on more than one occasion)
Slinging the flight crew grub in isn't a difficult task judging by the way competent crews can manage to achieve it without batting an eyelid. Unfortunately for a minority of our crew it can all be too much of a challenge, and they are usually the same ones who seem unable to complete the lavatory checks or myriad other essential tasks as they're 'too busy' (for safety?). Strangely enough these ones always have enough time to leg it off the aircraft to the duty free shop.
Final 3 Greens
18th Sep 2006, 12:42
To anyone with a bit of cultural sophistication, a Dranse day is fly fishing and then skiing or vice versa.
Can I gently prod this thread back on to track, which is the behaviour of a positioning captain in uniform blatantly ignoring the safety brief, talking over it and then waltzing around the cabin to get a coffee, when the aircraft commander has left the belt sign on.
In my opinion this sets a dreadful example to the pax, who may learn to disregard the brief and seat belt sign.
flybywire
18th Sep 2006, 12:59
the behaviour of a positioning captain in uniform blatantly ignoring the safety brief, talking over it and then waltzing around the cabin to get a coffee, when the aircraft commander has left the belt sign on.
In my opinion this sets a dreadful example to the pax, who may learn to disregard the brief and seat belt sign.
Correct. How can you expect passengers to get "educated" to safety procedures if crew in uniform do not comply with the captain's instructions themselves? (flight crew in your case, but believe me it happens with cabin crew as well)
He should have stayed in his seat, and that is something that cannot be compromised. He was effectively a passenger and he should have behaved like one.
Globaliser
18th Sep 2006, 15:15
Can I gently prod this thread back on to track, which is the behaviour of a positioning captain in uniform blatantly ignoring the safety brief, talking over it and then waltzing around the cabin to get a coffee, when the aircraft commander has left the belt sign on.
In my opinion this sets a dreadful example to the pax, who may learn to disregard the brief and seat belt sign.Unfortunately, there are many people who are prone to adopt such attitudes - more or less summed up as "the rules don't apply to me". IMHO, this is not far removed from flight crew who know very well that they have to take their shoes off to go through security, and refuse to do so, thus delaying their paying customers. But at least those crew have been suspended for that particular bit of idiocy.
TightSlot
18th Sep 2006, 15:16
In my opinion this sets a dreadful example to the pax, who may learn to disregard the brief and seat belt sign.
And in mine too....
gorgeous spotter
18th Sep 2006, 20:00
To anyone with a bit of cultural sophistication, a Dranse day is fly fishing and then skiing or vice versa.
Can I gently prod this thread back on to track, which is the behaviour of a positioning captain in uniform blatantly ignoring the safety brief, talking over it and then waltzing around the cabin to get a coffee, when the aircraft commander has left the belt sign on.
In my opinion this sets a dreadful example to the pax, who may learn to disregard the brief and seat belt sign.
F3G I agree; though in some cases there are no bad crews only occasionally very bad leaders.............:=
F3G I agree; though in some cases there are no bad crews only occasionally very bad leaders
How true that is.
radeng
21st Sep 2006, 14:55
Every time I've seen BA crew in uniform travelling as PAX, they are very conscientous about following the safety briefing.
Now I've got fed up of the BA safety video with that bl***y teddy bear getting dropped every time! Also, 'the captain and crew are here for your safety'. As the captain and FO are there to drive the thing - if they don't do that, we've not got off the stand - it's a poor choice of words.
Gulfstreamaviator
22nd Sep 2006, 13:28
On the BA Berlin to LHR last week, a "in uniform" BA cabin crew, in last row of club, was very busy reading his (german) newspaper, for the video briefing, as well as the mini German briefing.
Thinking about it, I was the only pax in club who actually did pay attention to the briefing, I was NOT in uniform.
The lack of consideration to the on duty cabin crew was disgusting.
Glf