CX Freighter Pilot Layovers

[ScratchF15]

I am in search of what the average freighter layover is in HKG and the lower 48. Are shorter layovers something you can preference for rostering? I am looking at ANC as a base and figure one could time out in 5 or 6 roundtrips - which would be great depending on how long the layovers are (ie less than 24 hours :ok: ).

If anyone has access to the ANC rostering - a cut and paste would be perfect.

[sizematters]

5 or 6 round trips, ??? you can only do 3.5 ANC-HKG-ANC a month as you will hit the all important overtime Barrier and they certainly won't want you anywhere near that......................if you super compact your rosters you can do a double crossing in 7 days and a single in 4 poss 5 depends on wether they like giving you EXB's or not (Extended Breaks 30+hours off away from home)..........................

Have no idea what the lower 48 may be, a term for days off ??? anyway based in ANC you could plan on 12-14 days work a month and 14-16 off

[ScratchF15]

That is exactly the info is was searching for, and the reason I am interested in CX. Seems to me that regardless of an airline's positives or negatives, you just cannot get around the fact that guys who fly long haul on the big iron time out quickly.

For a guy willing to live in ANC, it seems like a really good life if the goal is to spend time at home with the family. Sure the pay could be better, and they certainly are not bankers' hours. But so few jobs actually offer time and money. This seems to be a nice compromise because it offers a real future with quick upgrade opportunity.

Any thoughts?

[Sqwak7700]

This seems to be a nice compromise because it offers a real future with quick upgrade opportunity.

Any thoughts?


Well, you might want to read about the "quick upgrade" on other posts. This issue has been discussed many many times. Upgrade at CX is NOT based on seniority. Please realize that before you come here. Upgrade is not in your hands.

I do agree, it is a great place to work. It certainly beats jobs in the US in my opinion, but there are parts of it that just don't make any sense and I would like changed.

[Superdragon]

That ANC roster does seem nice. You've got to see the positive in everything to make it work.

[ScratchF15]

Well, you might want to read about the "quick upgrade" on other posts. This issue has been discussed many many times. Upgrade at CX is NOT based on seniority. Please realize that before you come here. Upgrade is not in your hands.

I do agree, it is a great place to work. It certainly beats jobs in the US in my opinion, but there are parts of it that just don't make any sense and I would like changed.

My initial thoughts on this are that it is a positive. I have been in two flying jobs now, military and regional airline, where command was given to those based on time of service, ability to meet a minimum (low) standard, and not being a complete idiot (sometimes). While this may seem the most "fair", it really does not serve the organization well. It appears to eliminate any meritocratic incentive to perform above the minimum standard. It also eliminates some politics in promotion, but really just shifts them to other sectors (ie training, checking, management, schedules, etc.)

Seniority-based promotion also reduces true PIC authority. There are many captains, flight-leads, instructors, check-airmen, SEFE's that know they don't deserve their position over others. We all know it, and sometimes it causes a break-down in the chain of command - usually when the shxx hits the fan. Now, you introduce more politics as bruised egos need a fix.

I equate a seniority based system to socialism and meritocratic system to capitalism. Neither are perfect, but I will take capitalism and its record over socialism any day.

What do you think about this can of worms?

[Superdragon]

I believe that you only qualify to comment on the systems under which you've lived and earned or gained first-hand knowledge and which you've taken the time and effort to know. Writing socialism off with the wave of your wand, immediately places you geographically.

Stating that seniority equals socialism and merit equals capitalism is not only short-sighted, but also serves to undermine the roots of your "new-found" civilian fliying existance. It also proliferates the notion that "democracy at any cost" is better than socialism at no cost.

[Stereolab]

My initial thoughts on this are that it is a positive. I have been in two flying jobs now, military and regional airline, where command was given to those based on time of service, ability to meet a minimum (low) standard, and not being a complete idiot (sometimes). While this may seem the most "fair", it really does not serve the organization well. It appears to eliminate any meritocratic incentive to perform above the minimum standard. It also eliminates some politics in promotion, but really just shifts them to other sectors (ie training, checking, management, schedules, etc.)

Seniority-based promotion also reduces true PIC authority. There are many captains, flight-leads, instructors, check-airmen, SEFE's that know they don't deserve their position over others. We all know it, and sometimes it causes a break-down in the chain of command - usually when the shxx hits the fan. Now, you introduce more politics as bruised egos need a fix.

I equate a seniority based system to socialism and meritocratic system to capitalism. Neither are perfect, but I will take capitalism and its record over socialism any day.

What do you think about this can of worms?

I worked in Corporate America for awhile and I can assure you that the merit system (Capitalist) you favor for promotion, is not better than a seniority system. Look at Corporate America today...it's a disgrace...you can throw ethics right out the door.

Basing a promotion on "merit" over seniority only brings in more politics and a$$ kissing. So now you have even MORE incompetent people being promoted. Remember, a promotion is very subjective and the merit system increases the chances of a subjective promotion. (race, creed, sex, nationality…)

Our business is about safety based on standardization and professionalism. A Captain checkride is a checkride...period. If you think a person should not wear four stripes, don’t blame it on seniority...because the same incompetent person could be easily put in command under the MERIT system.

[sizematters]

mmmmmmmmm, Quick upgrade ??? should be interesting, I take it you have several thousand hours heavy jet time (747 or similar ??) are the best thing since Pontious was a pilot and don't have a trace of American accent................................

Pass rate for "Upgrade (Command) at CX ...........50%

Pass rate for "Quick Upgrade" at CX.................Maybe 5%..........thats assuming they'll give you a shot........................

still doesn't hurt to dream.........................

[Diabolo]

Hi,

What is the route pattern out of Paris CDG ??
Anybodie based their ? I need some info ..

THX
happy trails

[ScratchF15]

mmmmmmmmm, Quick upgrade ??? should be interesting, I take it you have several thousand hours heavy jet time (747 or similar ??) are the best thing since Pontious was a pilot and don't have a trace of American accent................................

Pass rate for "Upgrade (Command) at CX ...........50%

Pass rate for "Quick Upgrade" at CX.................Maybe 5%..........thats assuming they'll give you a shot........................

still doesn't hurt to dream.........................

Sizematters, I must have come across some bad information regarding time to captain upgrade. What is realistic on the freighter fleet in ANC? Pax in SFO? I do not have any heavy time, just USAF fighter and FAR 121 RJ. I am confident I would make a positive impression, if hired. But, I suspect I have an American accent since I am not really sure what that is. No Southern drawl here, but I do like blue jeans and baseball. Doesn't the whole world speak 'American', I mean English? Just kidding of course.

[Five Green]

Scratch 15 :

The issue of command at CX has been discussed at length elsewhere. You have the deck stacked against you if you want an early command in Cathay. Some here still see it as jumping the que. The pass rate for DEFO freighters who apply is very low, between 5-10%. Taking into account those who are CAT'B'd (unsuitable for command) and those who get the course but do not finish. Also there is not too much advantage financially to upgrade on the freighter. If you upgrade early you will be on the freighter (as command) for 6-8 years or if expansion stops.....well there are no guarentees that you will get back on the pax fleet. Granted not too likely in the next 5-10 years.

If you do upgrade early because there is a freighter base closer to home or for ego or whatever, then great but it is by no means an easily accomplished upgrade.

Cheers

[hog tied]

DEFO's on the 400 freighter have been given early command courses (some not-so-early) for several years now. There are many Americans on the freighter. Answer this question: How many have passed? You can count them on one hand, and still have plenty of fingers left over. Look at the facts, they don't lie. The chance of an early upgrade here for an American are so slight, they nearly don't exist. Think about it, and you will have a hard time naming more than ONE yank who entered DEFO on the 400 freighter who sits in the left seat today. You'll come up with plenty who started the course.