PDA

View Full Version : PPL Training


matjr79
15th Sep 2006, 20:03
OKay here goes a question probably asked a million times..
Im hoping to book a course at either Ormond beach or Orlando flight training in march for a 21day PPL. Any opinions or advice about either school would be appreciated.. are there any flight schools offerin 21 day PPL in south africa/canada/europe because if there is i cant find them..or is the states the best option. i would prefer to do it at barton but the cost is just too much

any advice guys

worldpilot
15th Sep 2006, 22:07
I recommend Ormond Beach Aviation. I successfully completed my PPL with this company and it was fun. As stated in many threads, just do some prior learning before you go there. If possible, take the exams before you go to Ormond to fly. The engineers at Ormond are the best I've ever seen. They know exactly what they are doing.

Best of luck.

WP

BA123
16th Sep 2006, 11:05
hi, Im in a similar situation to yourself. I was going to head out to ormond beach before somebody changed my mind and im now looking at Orlando flight training for a 60 day module course. OFT looks very professional and I have only heard good comments about the place.

Good look with your decision.

Chris

BlueRobin
16th Sep 2006, 11:13
This thread probably deserves to be in Private Flying.

I doubt come flights, visas and accommodation your PPL will be that much more in the UK. If anything go for the weather.

Hour Builder
16th Sep 2006, 11:42
This thread probably deserves to be in Private Flying.
I doubt come flights, visas and accommodation your PPL will be that much more in the UK. If anything go for the weather.

Visa and accomodation are all included in the OBA price, which also includes TSA and SEVIS fees, and a £230 OBA study back from AFE. PPL course is £3700 ish, so once you've paid for all these things, you only ending up owing OBA £3300 ish.

Flights there are about £350 return.

BlueRobin
16th Sep 2006, 12:08
What in theory, or in practice HB? := :ok:

IRISHPILOT
16th Sep 2006, 12:11
hello, M79,
You probably posted in this forum because you want to go on to a JAA CPL/IR? If this is so, then all you need is an FAA PPL, not JAA, which can be done in many places in the US for less money and in under 21 days. If you really want to be sure, you can get the book in the UK, even do the ground exam in the UK, as well as the medical, but all should be possible well within the 21 days in the US too.
Bear in mind that you loose a JAA PPL when you do a higher JAR licence, the FAA is there to keep (even without any more testing ever).
You may have to study a bit more for the JAA exams, but nobody stops you from doing that if you do the FAA PPL. ;)
cheers IP

worldpilot
16th Sep 2006, 12:51
hello, M79,
You probably posted in this forum because you want to go on to a JAA CPL/IR? If this is so, then all you need is an FAA PPL, not JAA, which can be done in many places in the US for less money and in under 21 days. If you really want to be sure, you can get the book in the UK, even do the ground exam in the UK, as well as the medical, but all should be possible well within the 21 days in the US too.
Bear in mind that you loose a JAA PPL when you do a higher JAR licence, the FAA is there to keep (even without any more testing ever).
You may have to study a bit more for the JAA exams, but nobody stops you from doing that if you do the FAA PPL. ;)
cheers IP

Why do you loose a JAA PPL when you acquire a higher license? Elaborate on that or please provide some pointers.

WP

Sensible
16th Sep 2006, 13:14
I suggest that a PPL in the USA will be substantially cheaper than the UK. Having knowlege of both OBA and OFT, I know where I would prefer to go! All inclusive prices at some places are not the same as all inclusive prices at others! You need to be sure that "all inclusive" is exactly that! The surprise "extras" at the end can take the shine off of the experience! Personally, I would choose OBA since it is apparent that they have cleaned up their act during recent times:)

It is a shame that NAC are not doing JAA training since they were in my opinion the best of the three.

Hour Builder
16th Sep 2006, 17:08
What in theory, or in practice HB? := :ok:

with regards to what? info on OBA, or flights to FL?

In either case both are true. I did my ppl last year and it was only £2700 total, which included stuff I mentioned above.

And I booked a flight back to OBA 2 days ago for £330.

So ya, in practice I guess.
:p

Personally, I would put the two in alphabetical order and then pick the first one :)

There's me trying to work that out in my head. You putting OFT and OBA in alpha order, or using their full names Ormond Beach, and Orlando Flight training, cause it makes a difference.

IRISHPILOT
16th Sep 2006, 18:21
worldpilot,
the point is that you don't NEED a JAA PPL.
A secondary point is that you loose your JAA PPL when you get the JAA CPL (In my JAA country anyways, they take the PPL and give you the CPL. - If this is any different in Germany, then this may be so).
However, M79s question was about the speed a PPL can be done at, and he correctly didn't mention that he wanted to do a JAA PPL. So I just elaborated on that.
(Free night qualification is part of the FAA PPL too.)
cheers, IP

mcgoo
16th Sep 2006, 19:02
worldpilot,
(Free night qualification is part of the FAA PPL too.)


that is included in OBA's price as well

Hour Builder
16th Sep 2006, 19:43
The UK CAA do not take your JAR PPL (A) away once you obtain a UK JAR CPL (A). If you want you can renew both. There's just not much point.

I know that the IAA do take the Irish JAR PPL(A)'s away when they issue a Irish JAR CPL (A), but this is not the case in the UK

:ok:

that is included in OBA's price as well

simply got to give OBA credit. going back for 3rd time in november, its so much fun.

However, M79s question was about the speed a PPL can be done at, and he correctly didn't mention that he wanted to do a JAA PPL. So I just elaborated on that.

chances are as he was looking at OBA and OFT both are UK approved FTO's, probably a 95% chance he was talking about a UK licence and not an american. Plenty of places elsewhere you would at least look at, if you werent doing JAR training.

IRISHPILOT
16th Sep 2006, 20:10
We expect that the original poster wants to go on to JAR CPL, as he posted originally in the professional forum. Therefore he needs an ICAO PPL, which he wants to do in the US, Europe or Africa. He wants to do this in the least of time and no one can answer these questions to date.

I have never even looked into any of the mentioned schools, as I have the licence already, so I googled them now and found two schools in Ormond Beach.

One offers an ICAO PPL with night qualification and RT licence (which is not a JAR requirement, but a UK thing) for USD6466. The other offers an ICAO PPL with night qualification and RT licence for USD3590 (under FAAs, you are entitled to an RT licence - you simply order + pay online, a couple of weeks later it's in your letterbox).

At the end, you get a very similar product, both usable for what he needs it. The more expensive one includes landing fees (which are almost non-existing in the US), VAT (which is somewhere around 6 or 7 %), accommodation. So you are paying around USD2500 for 21 nights accommodation, which is quite steep.

But the orginal poster wants it done in 21 days, and this is easier accomplished under the FAA system (due to the ground exams). - If it was for price, then I am sure there are cheaper FAA PPLs around, and the JAA PPL can be had for the same money in JAA land, but as he said he wants to go there for the quick licence. No one, including me, has actually answered his question wether there are other places offering QUICK PPLs.

out. IP

AlphaMale
17th Sep 2006, 00:45
Man this thing is sooo complex. :confused:

Like matjr79 I am looking at getting my books and reading through them through Nov - March and hopefully get out and do an intense PPL licence. I have looked at Florida and must say I am well impressed but the preassure is there. It has also been argued tha doing your PPL is abot enjoying the flying and doing it over a few months is much nicer?!?

Taking a month off work is not going to be easy but it can be done. But it would be much less hard work to simply do it in the UK ... :ugh:

I'm still putting the money in the PPL Account and LloydsTSB and will sort this hurdle out when I get to it :{

Andrew
(Looking to complete all training for commercial Pilot)

S-crew'd
17th Sep 2006, 13:33
Could somebody explain the main differences between the JAA \ FAA PPL?
I know a FAA is easier to maintain in the long run however is there any major difference in the training you receive?

davey147
17th Sep 2006, 14:14
If I were you i'd add NAC to your list and go there to do your PPL. Its an excellant shool and got me through it. Someone said they arnt offering JAA training, well thats new news to me, im sure they are.

If you get a JAA PPL you can get an FAA PPL to on top of that, you just need to go for an interview. They are virtually the same, just that they allow you to fly in different countries.

Pilotdom
17th Sep 2006, 15:03
Have you had a look at intensive courses in the uk? How much more expensive are they working out in the UK against the US?

Supermattt
17th Sep 2006, 15:16
Hi All,

Davey,

Does that mean that if you get a FAA you can't just do an interview and get a JAA?

Also if you have only an FAA ppl can you not fly in the UK?

Thanks
Matt

tangovictor
17th Sep 2006, 16:12
I often wonder, about 2 potential problems with learning to fly in the US
1, just susposing you have bad weather there ( it happens ) and you run out
of your holiday time ?
2, have you ever checked with a UK operator, if your US jaa licence is ok for
you, to hire an aircraft from them ?
I read all the positive peoples threads, not many, have swallowed there pride and told of the problems involved, or extra expense.
if your going to fly in the UK, learn in the UK

tiggermoth
17th Sep 2006, 21:46
if your going to fly in the UK, learn in the UK

I've heard that before :)

As far as I know they don't fly on the other side of the sky in the US. A few things may be different, but I'd expect they would if I flew to Ireland, or to Europe once I have passed the PPL.

Riding a motorbike is the same in the US as it is in the UK or DL, AU, NZ...

One reason I chose Ormond Beach Aviation is becasue it's British owned and operated. I'm due to go over. I think the trick is that it's difficult in the UK to get enough continuity of flying (due to weather) to learn.

Even if you book an £800 flight in a luxury seat to the US (instead of say £350), it's still very much cheaper to learn stateside. Another big plus point is that you can spend more time with the ones that you love on beautifully sunny weekends (instead of learning to fly on every 45 of them).

Tip: Remember to add landing fees and touch-and-go fees to the calculation.

TiggerMoth

tangovictor
17th Sep 2006, 22:27
as i said, you hear all the postive things, however, the US in particular Fla
has some horrid weather, and I wonder how many people, just plain run out of time, and have to return home, having not completed the hours ?
also, as I said, how many US trained pilots, have been refused or made to fly
significate amounts of hours, before a UK operator will hire them an airplane ?
Im not getting at anyone here, I get just as p'd off with UK weather as anyone else, my last 3 lessons got cancelled, Im pointing out, it must also happen in Fla also !

M20 Man
17th Sep 2006, 22:43
I suspect by the time you have acclimatised yourself to UK conditions you are probably no better nor no worse off than if you had done the training in the UK.

All you will achieve by going to the States is a further reduction of income in the UK flying school system which in the end will be its death knell.

Slopey
17th Sep 2006, 23:31
I often wonder, about 2 potential problems with learning to fly in the US
1, just susposing you have bad weather there ( it happens ) and you run out
of your holiday time ?
2, have you ever checked with a UK operator, if your US jaa licence is ok for
you, to hire an aircraft from them ?
I read all the positive peoples threads, not many, have swallowed there pride and told of the problems involved, or extra expense.
if your going to fly in the UK, learn in the UK


1) crappy weather happens everywhere, but if youre going to florida, it's advisable to add at least an extra week just in case. If the weather turns out fine you can use the extra time hour building - cheaply! After sitting looking at crappy Wx for 6 months, 1 bad week out of 5 was nothing!

2) a JAA PPL(A) will be fine - they'll want to check you out, but all clubs will want to check you out before you hire. Shouldn't be a problem, most of the people I was at OBA was with did 1/2 hours back in the UK and were ok to hire. I myself did 4 but that's due to a high instructor turnover at the school I went back to.

"I read all the positive peoples threads, not many, have swallowed there pride and told of the problems involved, or extra expense."

Possibly because there haven't been any problems? Extra expense? I spent £500 more than intended on beers/food/a few extra hours. All in, it cost me £5k to get my PPL at OBA, opposed to an estimated £10k in Aberdeen.

"if your going to fly in the UK, learn in the UK"

Not necessarily - it's cheaper and dare I say more fun in the USofA. Their attitude to GA and the facilities availiable are great. That being said it's like anything else - you need to have a healthy respect for the weather, your abilities and the aircraft. And it's good practice to get some time in in your local area with someone who knows it - but that's the same regardless.

tangovictor
18th Sep 2006, 14:30
I was told, by a many hour pilot, that, he'd known of students, arriving back from the US, with a jaa licence,needed at least 5 hours extra tuition, stating radio and navigation, being well below that required in the UK,

Hour Builder
18th Sep 2006, 16:47
I was told, by a many hour pilot, that, he'd known of students, arriving back from the US, with a jaa licence,needed at least 5 hours extra tuition, stating radio and navigation, being well below that required in the UK,

everyone is different my friend.

i did a ppl in usa in 4 weeks, came back did .9 GH, .9 x/w landings, and a nav ex.

some need more, some less. once you get ppl from UK provider, the school may do a club checkout of an hour or so anyway.

mcgoo
18th Sep 2006, 17:18
I had a 1 hour checkride when I returned from the US at Coventry and was told I had been trained well, in fact I found the RT around there of a lower standard compared to the busier US airspace I trained in.

SD.
20th Sep 2006, 15:31
Could somebody explain the main differences between the JAA \ FAA PPL?
I know a FAA is easier to maintain in the long run however is there any major difference in the training you receive?

From someone who teaches both JAA and FAA I can give you an insight.

In the air, the test standards are comparable for all of the manouvers. Both teach stalls (although some variants), slow flight, steep turns etc and the general handling is pretty much the same.

The JAA have the 'Precautionary Search and Landing' excerise, where as the FAA don't cover this. They do however teach ground reference manouvers, 'Turns around a point' and 's-turns'. Either way you should be taught to a good standard which ever route you take.

Now the theory. JAA have you complete 7 ground exams and in my experience this is where many students start to panic. 21 days is a very short amount of time to learn and pass these exams with a good understanding. You can bash the Confuser and get through the exams, but I doubt you'll really know the stuff inside and out.

The FAA require you to pass 1 written exam. The exam is from a database of approx. 1000 questions of which you'll be asked 60 IIRC. The full database is published and again, you can just learn the answers to get through the exam. But, and this is where many FAA students fail, you need to get past the Oral portion of the check ride/skills test.

The JAA skills test consists of you planning a small NavEx, normally overhead one airport or check point and then onto your final destination. Once the flight plan has been compiled you'll have a brief. he may ask you a few question regarding the route and about the aircraft you'll be using. After departure, at some point along the route the examiner will divert you to an alternative destination. If you get there you'll then move onto the handlng section and then some touch and goes either at your home base or away at another field.

The FAA check ride is very similar and the format is almost identical with the NaveEx & diversion and then onto the handling section. Before you even get anywhere near the aircraft you'll have to pass the oral section. You will need to know indepth about weather, the FAR's (the FAA reg's), aircraft systems, airspace, human performance. He'll talk to you about your flight plan, ask questions about the charts, the route itself and you'll need to know pretty much everything there is to know about the charts. If you don't know your stuff and babble or bull****, he'll discontinue the check ride there and then.

As an instructor, I can get you through the flying section in 21 days. It'll be tough on you, but it's certainly do-able. It then comes down to the individual to learn the theory, with assistance from his/her instructor. I'd recommend to pass the exams (or at least be ready to sit the exam/s) before arriving in the states.

Personally I'd allow 28 days and not 21.

Good Luck:ok:

Supermattt
20th Sep 2006, 18:50
Great summary SD.

So if you did an FAA PPL in the States, would you then have to sit the full set of JAA exams and checkride in order to be granted a JAA PPL?

Are there any obvious implications of doing one or the other if you intend to go on to do a CPL?

If you do a an FAA PPL, do your subsequent ratings, night IR etc need to be FAA also or can you add JAA ratings onto the FAA PPL?

With thanks
Matt

MicMic
29th Sep 2006, 21:53
Just need some advise from the experts here.

I am so short-sighted that I couldn't even pass the Class II medical. This left me with only a NPPL.

I would love to be able to fly IMC. NPPL would not permit this. However, I found out that under FAA I can even obtain a ATPL, as far as I am 20/20 with corrective lens.

My question is, if I did get a FAA with IMC rating, would I be able to exerise it in the UK?

Also, it sounds crazy, I am thinking of obtaining a FAA PPL in the UK, providing that it is not a lot more expensive than JAR-FCL PPL. The reason - as mentioned by someone already, I have a full time job and would like to learn-while-I-earn as I am not prepare to spend a large sum at once.

Thanks in advance for your advise.

tiggermoth
1st Oct 2006, 23:48
(Please folks, correct me if I'm wide of the mark here).

If you are set on flying in the UK with a PPL rather than an NPPL, but you fail becasue of your eyesight, you could possibly opt for laser corrective surgery. (I can hear people sighing as they read this, sorry). You would need to take advice on which types of laser corrective surgery are best for flying (contact the CAA medical department on this, and your opthalmic practictioner). I was originally worried about this matter myself, but I turned out to be within the limits thankfully.

The other option would be to set you sights only very slightly lower (is that a pun?) and just realise that NPPL is just as good as PPL as far in that you'll can enjoy the freedom of the beautiful blue skies of the British Isles the same as a PPL, but with the added bonus that your licence will not expire, and you will not need to pay high fees to see an AME every few years. These are some significant advantages then in the NPPL over the PPL in financial terms over a lifetime, and who knows, it may mean that you can carry on doing it for many years more than someone that does the PPL.

Would you really choose to fly though rain and cloud? I rather drive my car in clear weather rather than fog...

You may find that after completing the NPPL that you get a real love for PFA aircraft, microlights or some other aspect. As my dad says, "don't close a door until it's closed for you", and then as my wife says "have you washed up dear?". So, you might just get out of the washing up whatever flying you do (not worked for me yet, but still hoping).

I'm doing the PPL only becasue I can, but you'll read plenty of gripes on here about the red tape of the CAA, so you may just enjoy the freedom of NPPL. I may just 'upgrade' to the NPPL one day...

Tiggermoth