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viggi_pilot
15th Sep 2006, 11:45
Hi all.

Firstly, I apologise if many of you think that this thread is being posted in the incorrect subject area but I would like to think I may be able to get more help form those that already have or are aiming to get their PPL(H)/CPL(H).

Without going into the long story, I was wondering if any body knows of a company or group that offers some sort of scholarship/training in addition to providing details of a suitable bank able to provide financial help.

I am desperate to make a career out of flying, especially within this area, but I could never afford to do it with out some sort of help or agreement.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Cheers.

Pandalet
15th Sep 2006, 13:06
HSBC do a professional development loan of up to £25k, but whether they consider a pilot a professional or not (and thus pilot training to be eligable for said loan) depends largely on the branch you go in to - I know the Watford one does and (one of) the Oxford ones doesn't. If you're looking for supportive banks, try the ones around the major training centres, as they're more likely to have some sort of pilot-related scheme. Also, a lot of the big trainers (Cabair, etc) will have their own deal with a specific branch which they make available to their own students - try contacting the schools.

There is also a (gubbermint supported) career development loan scheme (up to £8k, if I remember correctly), which several banks participate in (RSB and Halifax maybe?) - for more info on this, resort to google.

Another option in the loans department is a personal loan, which most banks do up to £25k - obviously, the amount they'll give you depends heavily on your credit rating and (I assume) income.

If you're under 25, there are a few bursaries around, but they're generally a few £k tops, and I imagine competition is fierce. I know the BWPA do one and I think there are a few others - again, google is your friend. Don't bother contacting the BHAB for this, btw, as they're not very helpful (in this specific regard).

Obviously, before you go into oodles of debt, make sure you have a very definate and well thought out way of paying it back! An underrated and oft-ignored alternative to bank whoring is to actually do some saving first...

Gerhardt
15th Sep 2006, 14:15
I rather like this new term you've come up with.

BaronG
16th Sep 2006, 10:14
Pandalet pretty much said it all but there are 2 more things to consider :

1) HSBC as a compnay used to provide aviation loans. I understand they have stopped doing that hence the requriement to shop around the branches, since some managers may still do the loan.

2) Assuming for a moment HSBC is good for 25K and a career dev. loan is good for 8K that's 33K total. You'll probably need more like 70K-80K if you're planning on the North Sea due to the extremely expensive IR (bank on about 30K for that element alone...). If you're looking at the self improver route via instructing, well 33K may well still be a little a short for the UK since you'll need around 50K to get the hours together to instruct.

You may find the only option is to get a decent paying non-flying job and save up for a few years. Either that, or the military is an option if your age is OK and you pass the tests....

Good Luck!

BG.

OldRookie
16th Sep 2006, 11:41
Dont do it is my advice, I have never thought the idea of being newly qualified with a dig debt to pay a good one. Just another way of keeping you on the great hamster wheel of life paying tax. Something that the government is good at doing here in the UK. HAVING to do any job just to pay your loans takes the edge off the fun. Save for it anyway you can, even if it means selling your worldy goods and living in a tent, working 2 jobs, eating beans on toast ( a lot ) start to barter, exchange labour for goods, accomodation. If its what you really want you can do it without having to go in debt. You arrived on this planet with nothing and you sure as hell wont be checking in any luggage when you leave. Im not having a go at anyone but you dont actually need a TV in every room or a toaster, DVD player, X-box, CD collection etc. You wont have time to use them if your head is in a copy of "pooleys" when your not working to pay for your flight time.

Hummingfrog
16th Sep 2006, 11:59
viggi_pilot

Don't do anything until you have or know you can get, and keep, a Class 1 medical - no medical no possibility of a flying job!!

I would also be vey wary of getting yourself into large loans with no promise of a definite job at the end of your training. There are lots of threads on here discussing training and finance - do a search and most of your questions will be answered.

HF

viggi_pilot
16th Sep 2006, 20:49
Thanks guys for all the advice.

I'd already started looking into getting bank loans, mainly with HSBC but I'd prefer not to for the obvious reasons! I know that some companies/airlines offer scholarships for fixed wing aircraft, and work contracts on completion, so my other question would be does this sort of thing actually exist within the world of helicopters?!

As for my medical, I've not got a class 1 as yet but I've had both my doctors and opticians confirm in writing that I can pass the requirements as stated on the CAA web site.

Again, thanks for the advice so far.

nicksmalley
17th Sep 2006, 11:24
viggi_pilot,

Sounds like you're in a very similar situation to me right now. So to pass on what I've found out so far:

1) HSBC will offer a loan of up to £60K assuming that you are going to attend a full time integrated course. The £60K covers the cost of the course (usually £49K to £55K) plus gives you a little extra for accomodation/living expenses for the year it takes to do the course. This money is given under the Professional Studies Loan system. So you start paying it back 6 months after the course has finished which is quite helpful. A typical repayment schedule for £60K is 9 years. This means the monthly payments are approximately £800 making the total amount payable £89Kish. There are some arrangement fees as well. :yuk:

2) Obviously not many places offer the courses - you're essentially looking at Oxford (OAT) and Cabair (Cranfield). Once you've been assessed and given a place at the school, you can apply for the dosh.

3) Everyone will tell you that you are crazy to do it. I'm not going to make that judgement. Think carefully, do the maths on how this financial burden will impact you, go for a helicopter lesson to make sure you like it, speak to as many pilots as possible. If after all the research and soul searching, your gut still tells you to go for it, then go for it.

4) Just make sure you realise that the piece of paper that Cranfield/Oxford give you at the end of the course doesn't mean a job. But, activity is high right now. Chatting to a Canadian school, the CFI said its the best time in 30 years to get a job. I live in Aberdeen and the North Sea is possibly busier than it has ever been. However, the point I'm trying to make is that its risky.

5) Consider training abroad. HAI in the States or somewhere in Australia. Both places offer well respected licences. Just be wary of getting an FAA CPL(H). Bare in mind, this may result in conversion when returning to the UK to work.

Hope this information helps. Email me at [email protected] if you have any other questions.

Thanks

Nick

NickLappos
17th Sep 2006, 11:59
The US Army did it for me. Of course afterward, they asked me to spend a year in a two-way rifle range, but you have to pay the piper.

Seriously, the military is a great way to learn to fly.

viggi_pilot
17th Sep 2006, 15:05
Thanks again guys!

To the two Nicks that replied recently, unfortunantly, I wear glasses so flying for the military is out of the question which is a real bummer since its something I always wanted to do as a kid!

As to the other Nick, thanks alot! The info about loans and schools is great and its good to hear that there are other people out there struggling to make it as a professional pilot. On that note, are there many complanies that will take pilots on if they have low hours / little experince? I was under the impression that most, if not all companies, only wanted those with a fair amount of hours and type ratings?
Ok, I'm off to do some number crunching!

Grainger
17th Sep 2006, 16:52
As for my medical, I've not got a class 1 as yet but I've had both my doctors and opticians confirm in writing that I can pass the requirements as stated on the CAA web site.Unless either of them is a CAA licensed medical examiner, this isn't likely to mean very much.

Even then, it's not the same as actually having the Class 1. The only piece of paper that counts is the one you get from Gatwick.

Before you do anything else - and certainly before you start borrowing money - go and get your medical sorted.

elena
17th Sep 2006, 21:22
[quote=nicksmalley;2856798]viggi_pilot,

Chatting to a Canadian school, the CFI said its the best time in 30 years to get a job.

Are you serious about this comment or just plain naive?
A CFI may be the worst person to ask about job opportunities.:ugh:
It's like going in a restaurant and asking the waitress if the fish is fresh!!
"No it stinks but I am trying to sell it anyway!"

What answer do you expect from a CFI?
That's it's not a good time to get a job???? :confused:

From my side, I really think it's foolish to get a loan for flight training without any kind of experience before.
I dropped college to work full time to save enough for an FAA CPL+FI, and if I cannot get an instructor job, at least I will be free to pursue whatever options that may come.

Pandalet
18th Sep 2006, 08:53
regarding loans, specifically the HSBC professional study thingies, my understanding is that anything over £25k needs to be secured, ie. you need to borrow against a house (or similar expensive thing). I may be wrong, but this is my understanding having chatted to my local branch. It's also worth noting that the professional studies loans (unlike personal loans) are NOT based on fixed interest rates - if rates go up, so will your repayments!

Simon853
18th Sep 2006, 12:45
£800 a month six months after graduation? How the heck would you cover that?

Consider that a £50k integrated course is only going to get you your CPL and no additional experience, no FI rating or IR. So, how would you find work in order to start paying back that enormous monthly payment? - What happens if you don't? (Does your parents' house get repossessed?)

Even if you managed to scrape another £20k together and got yourself an FI job, how many fresh FI's have £800 disposable income after paying for a roof and food?

Even of you managed to get nearer £80 and managed to get an IR as well, you'd struggle to pay back that per month on a North Sea co-pilot position, wouldn't you?

Also, and I may be wrong about this: but I think I remember being told that HSBC doesn't give career advancement loans for helicopters, only integrated fixed-wing. (Have a chat with someone at OAT or Cabair about this, and they can advise exactly which specific branches you should go to and enquire.)

Si

Pandalet
18th Sep 2006, 13:33
As stated above, HSBC (as an organisation) doesn't seem to have any specific policy regarding pilot training (fixed wing or rotary) - whether they'll give you any money or not depends on the specific branch you go into. I know my local HSBC will loan me £25k for helicopter training (in a professional studies loan), or more if I have something to secure the loan on; I also know of several branches that won't do anything special for pilots of any stripe.