Pathetic ITV

[breakscrew]

Tonight's ITN News had 5-6 minutes on how awful the British Army was by using bear skins which they had bought from hunters to make the Guards Bearskins, followed by a couple of minutes about how NATO was not supporting our overstretched troops in Afghanistan. The clear implication was anti-British Army. Are MoD losing the propaganda war? Discuss.

[QFIhawkman]

Are people who order "discuss" at the end of a post absolute idiots?

Discuss.

[QFIhawkman]

In all seriousness breakscrew, the media battle thing has been done to death here on pprune, however you do indeed have a good point.

ITV news don't seem to be exactly "onside" with our guys at all. It's all negative press so far, but then again the BBC are not much better.

Having said that I found the coverage of the repatriation to Kinloss by the BBC to be both sympathetic, and in contrast to recent stuff, it was actually factually accurate.

[thing]

The killing of bearskins is emotive....

You mean some bearskins are alive?!! Do they club them at Horseguards?

[4fitter]

Mrs 4F and I saw the same report and were incensed when it came out, quite late and after various pics of Guards on parade, that the orphaned bears were more as a result of an increase in recreational hunting. The number of skins provided tended to be from organised culls and the recreational hunters only sold the skins on when there was nothing else left to do. Emotive and slightly disingenuous methinks.

[The Helpful Stacker]

The amount of bearskins provided annually is very small and all are sourced from the official black bear culls. The bears are being culled anyway and the bearskins are just being utilised as a by-product. No bears are actually killed for their skin.

[Hirsutesme]

Genuine question, why is a cull necessary?

[BellEndBob]

The simple fact of the matter is that the average Joe on the street is far more concerned about the plight of a cuddly bear than he/she is about the plight of our servicemen and women.
You can thank Tony for that as we are now seen as part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Anyway, surely we can come up with a synthetic fur for these bloody hats. Tradition is one thing but eventually the time comes to actually change and move on.

[Zoom]

Out of interest, I wonder what the national reaction would be nowadays if it was skins from British foxes that were being used. Blair would have issued a ban years ago.

[South Bound]

The bears are culled anyway for reasons other than fur production. It would be a criminal waste just to throw the fur away and develop an alternative.

[Rather be Gardening]

I like Zoom's suggestion - recycle the foxes. The orange fur should set off the red uniforms quite nicely, and the tail could be draped carelessly across the shoulder for a touch of chic. Wear the fox hat, as they say in all the best circles.....

[Whirlygig]

It's nothing compared to how the Chinese treat bears. At least the bear is dead before it's skinned.

Cheers

Whirls

[ORAC]

Story started with the politicians back at the beginning of the year. Who Cares about Bears. (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/backbench/comment/0,,1734827,00.html)

[Wader2]

It must have been a non-news day.

http://www.cronaca.com/archives/000611.html

and that is 2003. It drew this comment two years later:

Comments
If the bears are going to be culled (destroyed) anyway, it makes no sense to throw away the pelts and waste our precious natural resources (synthetic furs are made from petroleum distillates) in the production of the headgear. The "greens" should be insisting that the real (culled) bear pelts continue to be used!

Posted by: Bramicus ([email protected]) on August 19, 2005 02:52 PM

[Skunkerama]

On a side note, I would like to know what the BBC has got against the humble british soldier.

Eastenders seems to enjoy sending squadies up as idiots. First we get psycho Grant, first class nob and about as likeable as piles. And this new ex squaddy thinks the world owes him a living and is the most obnoxious little tw* on TV.

Obviously one of the script writers fell in love with a pongo only to be thinned out once she had put out.

[Tigs2]

ITV have just shown their "second Report in their Campaign to stop Soldiers wearing the bearskin'. Why don't they run a couple of reports on getting our soldiers the right kit for deploying on Ops, the poor sods are operating in Afghanistan, STILL in soft top landrovers. Transportation of troops newly arrived in theatre in soft topped four tonners. Agreed, the bears don't have a choice, but neither do our troops. Now if thats not cruel, nothing is.

[Regie Mental]

Maybe not on ITV but both the Times and Torygraph have run article in the past week on the new Mastiff six wheel vehicle which the Army are getting 180 of. Impressive bit of kit upon which an IED has no effect save for causing the CD to skip. Also, Paul ('twas a Chinook') Wood this week read out some emails on the 10 o'clock news about lack of adequate kit.

[Wader2]

http://defenceintranet.diiweb.r.mil.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0CE5A0AE-15AE-4605-980D-8D3E6B297D8F/0/c_logo_dpa.gifNew Protected Patrol Vehicles for Iraq and Afghanistan put through their paces14/09/2006New vehicles designed to help protect British forces in Iraq and Afghanistan were demonstrated on Salisbury Plain on 13 September 2006.



http://defenceintranet.diiweb.r.mil.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C291686C-ABA0-46C6-9B19-75593CC91D56/0/MastiffPPV1.jpgThe new Mastiff PPV (Protected Patrol Vehicle) being demonstrated at West Hill Farm, Salisbury Plain [Picture: Andrew Linett]The Minister for Defence Procurement, Lord Drayson, said the Cougar and Vector vehicles were a significant step forward in helping troops in Iraq and Afghanistan to carry out their tasks more safely."We are one hundred per cent committed to giving our troops what they need," he said. "Within force protection there is no perfect solution, it is a high risk business, but these vehicles are really excellent and will offer increased protection."Vector provides good protection and, importantly, increased mobility and capacity compared to Snatch Landrovers which makes it very suitable for the rugged terrain and long patrol distances in Afghanistan. It is expected that deliveries of Vector will begin early in 2007.
The Mastiff PPV (a variant of the US Cougar) meets the requirement for a well protected, wheeled patrol vehicle with a less intimidating profile than tracked vehicles like Warrior or FV430.
The vehicles will be customised with essential Bowman radios and electronic counter-measures – and then fitted with additional armour beyond the standard level, to ensure they have the best possible protection. They are expected to arrive in Iraq by the end of 2006.

http://defenceintranet.diiweb.r.mil.uk/DefenceIntranet/Templates/GenerateThumbnail.aspx?imageURL=/NR/rdonlyres/F73539A6-41DE-4A66-8370-D43E902E08AB/0/MastiffPPV2.jpg&maxSize=203 (http://defenceintranet.diiweb.r.mil.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F73539A6-41DE-4A66-8370-D43E902E08AB/0/MastiffPPV2.jpg)Lord Drayson, Minister for Defence Procurement, at the demonstration of the new vehicles at West Hill Farm, Salisbury Plain [Picture: Andrew Linett]Before the recent announcement of new vehicles, the Ministry of Defence had already spent over £527m on Urgent Operational Requirements for Iraq and Afghanistan designed to improve force protection. This is in addition to the planned £6bn annual defence procurement budget. Force Protection Urgent Operational Requirement – Key Facts
Expenditure on Force Protection

Iraq – over £404M spent
Afghanistan - over £123M
Total of over £527M: In addition to £6bn annual defence procurement budget
£147M on vehicle and personal protection
£181M on aircraft protection
£199M on ECMVehicle protection already completed

Protection upgrades for AFVs including Challenger 2, Warrior, FV430 (in progress), Saxon, CVR(T), Challenger Armoured Recovery Vehicles
Conversion of Saxon to produce armoured ambulances including air-con
Conversion and new-build of Snatch Mk2 Land Rovers
Protected vehicles for specialist tasks, such as VIP transport
Blast and ballistic protection for soft-skin B vehicles including DROPs, recovery vehicles, Heavy Equipment Transporters
Machine-gun mounts for self-defence of Heavy Equipment Transporters
Wire cutter defences (in progress) for vehicles – local immediate modifications will be replaced by purpose-designed kithttp://defenceintranet.diiweb.r.mil.uk/NR/rdonlyres/425CBF79-0C0B-4228-BE54-708BDF11CE3F/0/VectorVehicle.jpg
The new VECTOR vehicle, part of a new package of vehicles to compliment heavily armoured Warriors and lighter Snatch patrol vehicles [Picture: Sgt Gary Tyson]Personal protection

Osprey Improved Combat Body Armour for normal operational duties
Kestrel Enhanced Protection Body Armour for top-cover sentries
Body armour for specialist personnel
Ballistic Eye Protection
Camp/base surveillance and attack alarm systemsECM/EOD

Comprehensive Electronic Counter-Measures suites for all vehicle and foot patrols
Training versions of ECM for pre-deployment training
Specialist ECM to support Explosive Ordnance Disposal tasks
Protected specialist vehicles for EOD teams
Lightweight heli-borne EOD vehicles for Afghanistan
Improved lightweight EOD robot vehicles
Mine clearance equipmentAircraft protection

Explosion Suppressant Foam being installed on C-130s
Improved defensive aids suites for air transport and helicopters
Improved flares
Improved communications for air transport and helicopters to aid situational awareness
Flight deck armour for air transport and Nimrods

[South Bound]

Yep, but what is really worrying about this is that all these things are UORs, hence unfunded beyond current operations. Let's face it, a UOR is a result of a failure to really understand what is required of our forces should they go to war. They are invariably reactive in nature, most often a compromise (off the shelf vehicles etc) and have a limited shelf life. Additionally there is always a battle to secure UOR funding - just what is the most urgent UOR in theatre? Vectors? Herc foam? Improved comms?

Where will the money come from to support them in the longer term?

I presently work on a platform that relies hugely on UORs that have been left over from previous ops - the IPT is making a huge effort to bring them into core, but some are being removed due to supportability.

These are not theatre specific requirements, they are what is required to fight in the modern world and they need to be funded and supported appropriately, so that they are ready to go when the call goes up, not hurridly retro-fitted at the last minute, normally reducing asset availability when they are at their most precious.

[Tigs2]

Wader
Where is it all??

[chadwick]

British Army was by using bear skins which they had bought from hunters to make the Guards Bearskins,

How many of the pompous media are the ones who show the guards at the official parades every year!

The tradition using animal skins historically in uniforms is not just restricted to The Scot Guards?

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