Is a CTA a "Zone"

[englishal]

If one wanted to transit Bournemouth at 3000, then one would be in Solents CTA. Would the request be a "Zone transit" to Solent?

Thanks...

[London Mil]

I think you have answered your own question. Personally, I would ask for a CTA transit.

[englishal]

Thanks.....

[Mark 1]

I would normally just make a request for a VFR(/IFR/SVFR) transit, without qualifying Zone or CTA.

It is quite likely that a transit will go through both, and a clearance will be issued to enter "controlled airspace".
I don't know what CAP413 says, but a controller is primarily interested in your altitude and routing through the controlled airspace as a whole.

[northernboyo]

Becareful what point you wish to transit as you may be best calling Bournemouth.

[aluminium persuader]

Technically a zone is from sfc to a specified level eg sfc-2000. An area is from one specified level to another eg 2000-5000.

Realistically no-one's going to stand on semantics. I hope!;)

[RAC/OPS]

I would normally just make a request for a VFR(/IFR/SVFR) transit, without qualifying Zone or CTA.
It is quite likely that a transit will go through both, and a clearance will be issued to enter "controlled airspace".
I don't know what CAP413 says, but a controller is primarily interested in your altitude and routing through the controlled airspace as a whole.
But you won't get a SVFR clearance through a CTA!!

[London Mil]

RAC/OPS you are quite correct. However, it is one of those rules I have never quite understood. What is the difference between a SVFR clearance through a CTR and one through a CTA with a base level of 1500ft?

[AlanM]

Because your clearance would be "Not above" (say 2000ft) and if the CTA base was 1500ft you are likely not to be in the CTA!

And the ANO defines SVFR as clearance through a zone (not all CTAs are piddly little things of course)

All semantics as said really...... damn them rules!

[englishal]

Becareful what point you wish to transit as you may be best calling Bournemouth.
This is why I am confused. In the past when holding over the BIA at FL50 I was talking to Bournemouth.

However, now I fly from somewhere else, and if routing to the Channel Islands via NEDUL / ORTAC the easiest option for me (other than skirting their airspace) is to climb to 3000 (to remain below N866) and transit Bournemouth from say Tarrent Rushton to Hengistbury Head and intercept the SAM radial (I forget which one).

As mentioned, a CTA is not a zone, and CAP413 doesn't clarify. If my initial call is for "zone transit" they may assume straight away that I want to transit their Zone which I don't.

If I were to go now, I'd call Solent and ask "to transit their airspace" or "CTA transit". I imagine I'd be told to call Bournemouth anyway, but it is only polite to call the agency listed on the chart ;)

[London Mil]

Alan, I'm not disagreeing, but I don't find any link in the ANO between SVFR and it only being available in a CTR. Conversely, the AIP is quite specific and talks only about CTRs. Taking this a step further, the only weather criteria I can find for SVFR refer to in-flight visibility and not contact with the surface (as I am thinking about CTR/CTA transits, I am ignoring to 600ft cloudbase bit for arrivals and departure here). To confuse the issue the AIP says the following:

2.3 When operating on a Special VFR clearance, the pilot must comply with ATC instructions and remain at all times in flight conditions which enable him to determine his flight path and to keep clear of obstacles. Therefore, it is implicit in all Special VFR clearances that the aircraft remains clear of cloud and in sight of the surface. It may be necessary for ATC purposes to impose a height limitation on a Special VFR clearance which will require the pilot to fly either at or not above a specific level.

Note that in sight of the surface bit is "implicit", whatever that means! I can quite happily determine my position and maintain obstacle clearance without seeing the surface. Indeed, I have often offered to take an IFR clearance only to be given a VFR/SVFR one. :hmm:

As I see things, in theory, you can have a SVFR clearance above cloud through a CTR but not a CTA.

I think I will take a cold flannel and lie down in a dark room now. :{

[AlanM]

SVFR

"A flight made at any time in a control zone which is Class A airspace, or in any other control zone in IMC or at night, in respect of which the appropriate air traffic control unit has given permission for the flight to be made in accordance with special instructions given by that unit instead of in accordance with the Instrument Flight Rules and in the course of which flight the aircraft complies with any instructions given by that unit and remains clear of cloud and in sight of the surface. (R of A)"

[London Mil]

AlanM, ta. Still doesn't make complete sense though. Why does the AIP use the word "implicit" if the ANO requires COCIS?

I think I will go back to my dark room.

[spikeair]

i think technically you ask for a area transit, but I've asked for one myself or ever heard anyone ask. In the real world you ask for a zone transit and everyone knows what you mean.

[TCAS FAN]

Although you will not find any reference to it in the Air Pilot or NOTAMs, I understand that Solent delegate control of the Solent CTA overhead Bournemouth and west thereof to Bournemouth, So it would appear that you shouls call Bournemouth for a crossing.