Girth Limits

[puntosaurus]

Has anyone come across operators setting girth limits for trial lesson students in a heli ? I've recently had a couple of examples in a 44 who come inside the seat limit but where rearward movement of the cyclic is the issue.

Of course it's the worst possible scenario because the forward c/g generated by a large one in the front seat, is precisely the time you need the rearward cyclic.

I'm wondering if anyone has set down any parameters that could be checked off at booking time, because it's not the best time to be raising the issue when you do your full and free check.

[verticalhold]

Never seen it done yet, but its' high time it was. See the thread on the 29 stone passenger in JB.

Had a moose in a twin squirrel whose thighs restricted collective movement! I eventually had to say no to flying him. Luckilly he put the C of G out of limits and couldn't fit in the back so there could be no argument.

[rotorspin]

had the same issue years ago with my brother in law in a 44

big rugby playing lad with legs like tree trunks!!! :eek:

couldn't fit in the back either, so we called it a day.....

[R1Tamer]

Reminds me of one of my FAA examiners (now deceased) who many on this forum will remeber. A very rotund charachter who used to require every fraction of an inch of MP to lift into the air. At the conclusion of one check ride when entering the flare at the end of the autorotation I believe my comment to him in stifled panic went something along the lines of "suck it up Dick" as I fought to bury the cyclic into his gut.

R1 Tamer

[Camp Freddie]

been in this position several times in past, only way we could fly the bloke was for me to bury the cyclic between my legs (so to speak) so the cyclic on his side was chest high rather than obstructed by his stomach.

I think an accident will happen due to this sooner or later, so the sooner a max girth measurement is set the better I think !

regards

CF

[puntosaurus]

Yup that's where I got to in the end, but not before a few heart stopping moments. You always say to yourself "I'd never get into that situation", but then you do ...

I'm going to do some measurements and get them in our AOM. No way I should be left to make an eyeball judgement on such a sensitive issue when the paying customer is sitting next to me waiting to go.

[Gordy]

When I flew in Hawaii, we had an unwritten rule for passengers: We would send them to our waiting area to have a seat in a one of our plastic lawn chairs. If the seat came up with their ass when they stood up.....they were required to buy an extra seat!!!!

[floatsarmed]

The check is known as a "full and free" movement of the controls. It should be just that. If you have a fat chap in the front seat and you can't get the cyclic all the way back its going to end in tears sooner or later.

Once had a VERY big lad in front of a jet ranger, no cyclic issues just a huge guy with legs like power poles! Got airborne and as the c of g got further and further forward it felt like the whole aircraft wanted to do a forward roll!:eek: Nearly full aft cyclic to get it stopped and landed well and truly on the front tips of the skids. Much buttock clenching onto the seat and sweaty palms. :mad: won't do that again! and havent.:=

[Whirlybird]

I had one trial lesson student in a R22, who wasn't over the max weight, because he was very short. But the only way I could move the collective was to get him to take everything out of his pockets!

[B Sousa]

I think one could write a book of laughs over helicopter experiences with "large boned" individuals.
A few years ago during busy tours in the Virgin Islands. One of the loaders decided to put this Hippo in next to me in the front of a B206L3. We were right on the ocean so no hills to climb etc.
Let me describe a bit further. This was one of those folks, who was so fat that the rolls went over the rolls and his mobility was such that I dont think he had bathed in a few years. It was not body odor it was rot. He did fit in the seat.....OK.enough on that.
Anyway wound it up and as we were lifitng (max Tq) and rolling fwd to translational...Kathunk, all aft cyclic was gone....... So here I am on the way to the ocean........thank god for translational and off we go on tour.
Uneventful, and a run on landing with no problem.
Needless to say I was all over that loader.......
Same thing almost as they try and stick three tubbies across the back seat. The guy on the left rear actually pushed the window out of the frame, thankfully on the ground.
As a tour toad these are the joys of flying. Tell them they are too big and they want to get you fired for insulting them......Bottom line is tell them to stay away from the Midnight Buffet if they want to do a helicopter tour.....

[RINKER]

True story;local flying school owner recounted this story to me a few years ago but details a bit sketchy now i admit.Woman phoned to purchase trial lesson for her hubby as birthday pressie in R22.Owner asked weight etc and voucher sold.On the day he comes in to fly owner advises that customer is too big and heavy for R22 (choosing his words carefully of course) Customer starts complaining that doctor has certified his weight ! and is very offended etc.Owner insists guy is too heavy for R22 but suggests shorter flight in R44instead.Customer agrees to this and on trying to take off in R44 fwd cog too much so owner/pilot suggests only option is for guy to sit in back (I know it's not a trial lesson anymore) but customer agrees and off they go and the guy has a great flight and very thankfull complimentary etc.
The next day owner gets aphone call from the customers wife complaining that her husbands birthday was ruined "he cried all the way home in the car" how dare they say he was fat, doctor certified weight; birthday was ruined going to sue etc!
Never heard the final outcome.
Absoloutley true!
R

[whoateallthepies]

OK, I am a large pilot!

In fact a recent medical had me officially in the "large boned" classification and I had to take an official "obese pilot" flight check with our company examiner. No, this is true (ask tbc) and there is a form from the CAA which has to be completed. The official reason is to ensure that the pilot's size does not interfere with his/her ability to operate the controls or emergency equipment!

Cue one p****d off company examiner who realised that half the pilots he had to check every 6 months were probably now due another check because they were close to the line on height/weight.

I haven't got any smaller but I now fly bigger helicopters!:cool:

I can also remember the trouble we sometimes had loading patients into the Bolkow who were fellow salad dodgers. Quite a few ended up with their stomachs dragging along the top of the loading bay!