RP07

[Truckmasters]

We are getting lots of comments about it mixed into other threads. Lets have your thoughts here.
What do we do with the RP07 vote.

[tifters]

We have no protection for lifestyle. The company are ok with paying overtime, as they have shown. Ask any Dragon Air pilot what life is like with alot of overtime and bugger all time off with your family. Overtime rates should "punish" the company. At the moment alot of F.Os on the 777 working into overtime and i can tell you that it is not fun. With a mix of long haul and regional in the future the company will be able to max out your rostered month and have you on a week of reserve for free, just in case!!!

[cpdude]

I am starting to think the couple of little perks in RP07 are not worth many undesirable features. I work to get paid not for pleasure. If you want me on Reserve...pay me or get someone else!:}

This is not the beginning of the end but just the end of this bad deal. Send it back for improvements.:ok:

[Mr. Bloggs]

Cpdude

Your are sounding like a union member??????????????

[localTCN]

Hey, lots of guys on the 777 got 90+hours a month, and the company is happy about it! It is cheap anyway.
I want my 5-4-3! I want my protection! :mad: free reserve! :mad: RP07

[cpdude]

Cpdude
Your are sounding like a union member??????????????

You don't have to be a union member to see it's a bad deal!:ok:

[cpdude]

Hey, lots of guys on the 777 got 90+hours a month, and the company is happy about it! It is cheap anyway.
I want my 5-4-3! I want my protection! :mad: free reserve! :mad: RP07

5-4-3 is absolutely necessary for all HK drivers but almost useless for based pilots. The Company knows this and are relying on the based guy’s placing very little importance on the loss of this feature.

A based pilot could be scheduled for a ULH flight, 3 days of and do it again. But pretty soon he runs out of hours and rests for 15+ days if they compress his schedule. The HK drivers are working their ass off and need this feature desperately.

So, let's get 5-4-3 back for all those HK drivers with a lousy lifestyle.:)

[ALPHA FLOOR]

vote No!

no Rp 07
no Age 60
no De Fo

no - No - No

Af

[Giuseppe Giovanni]

If RP 07 is voted down, imagine the consequences for the expansion plans...

We've all been told that the number of new B777 ER orders where placed looking at crewing numbers. This was re-inforced recently when the Company ordered one additional, stating that they had determined that they could indeed crew it.

Now imagine the pressure which would be placed upon the Company, after ordering these airframes, if the aircrew productivity was to suddenly drop with the re introduction of 5-4-3. Overnight, the Company would have aircraft arriving which could not be crewed. Great position for the pilot body to be in and a bad position for the Company to be in.

The Company would potentially be forced to re-negotiate and we, the pilot body, would enter those discussions from a position of strength. In addition, it would certainly place an interesting twist on retirement 60. Would they still be offering B scale and housing for 2 years or would they do the respectable thing (just like P.W. did for himself) and negotiate on current terms and conditions??

So, let's not JUST focus our attention on the DEFO vote (which will be voted down) but also discuss this very important issue of RP07. We have two excellent opportunities to force the Company to begin to negotiate properly and to do so from a position of strength. After all they're just playing their 'poker face', trying it on for size, to see if they can get something for nothing. Don't be fooled...

[ALPHA FLOOR]

Giuseppe Giovanni - You speak the truth, I'm with you dude!

[slapfaan]

....and now about those salary increases....

[localTCN]

Slapfann,
WE got to give up our Housing, RP, DEFO, Retirement age, in order to get the pay increases. Remember the sequence though, we have to sign some **** terms first, and then we can negotiate with the company.... And of course CX will keep their promises and give us good pay increases...

[Loopdeloop]

5-4-3 is absolutely necessary for all HK drivers but almost useless for based pilots.

It's pretty useful for based guys too, as with 5-4-3 a European roster would be 4 day pattern, 6 days off (G&O's). Without 5-4-3, they can roster a 6 day pattern, 3 or 4 days off with exb/res in HKG, so the based guys end up spending a lot more time away from home but without doing any more work.
In fact on the -400 fleet it's the based guys who have suffered more than the HKG folk under RP04.

[Yeager]

The RP07 shoud be negotiated in combination with CoS07. Not an individual deal.

I dont see any reason as to why the AoA should sign a seperate deal. Nope.

[Gravox]

What do you mean when refering to 5-4-3

I have a 2nd interview with CX coming up and am concerned with all that is being said re change, especially as if i am successful I will start in 2007. This new CoS07 and RP07 is confussing, but i'm trying to get my head around it.

Cheers

[Team America]

or would they do the respectable thing (just like P.W. did for himself) and negotiate on current terms and conditions??
Nice to see a man tell all the guys who want to extend "take this or leave it"..."BTW I will not take it and extend on an A scale package, thanks very much."
If PW thinks it is such a good deal why doesn't he lead by example :hmm:

[WeeJohnPooPongMcPlop]

Ermmm....... I am labouring under the misapprehension that the company will only negotiate with the AOA. Now I am hearing that we can all negotiate individual deals with the company, like PW, to retain previously agreed packages. I am all for this! Whoopeeeeeee!

[Team America]

You could be right....."Pay me this much or I am outa here"
(Think this may only be available to those on the 3rd floor) :(

[octanecolt]

30 days no credit reserve.
Substitution of these no credit reserve days for rostered duties, to limit overtime payments (and they said it would never be done, though how many, including myself have seen it happen)
Reduced recovery times between patterns.
Sure we all want to have rostering included in our COS. Though if this was voted down and put back on the table for further negotiation, it is very likely a better deal would be offered. How else are they going to crew their flights with the proposed expansion.
Vote NO to RP07. We deserve a better agreement.

[Giuseppe Giovanni]

My favorite is 'work stacking'.

And I quote from the RP07 agreement "19.1 When a crew member has annual leave or sickness on the published roster, the roster for the remainder of the month will reflect TYPICAL DUTY CYCLE DISTRIBUTION for the crew members category and base."

I guess that explains why a few months ago how they managed to cram 81 hours into one month AND still give me two weeks leave. Or the time before that, after returning from leave and they only had 3 workable days left for the month, they still managed to give me 25 hours of duty.

Why hasn't this been addressed by the AOA in the recent negotiations, as I've certainly JRC'ed it and everyone else that I've spoken say the same. It's such an obvious breach of the rostering agreement, yet nothing changes. Why???

[whodunnit2]

And so the result is a "NO."

[SkyCruiser]

My favorite is 'work stacking'.
And I quote from the RP07 agreement "19.1 When a crew member has annual leave or sickness on the published roster, the roster for the remainder of the month will reflect TYPICAL DUTY CYCLE DISTRIBUTION for the crew members category and base."
I guess that explains why a few months ago how they managed to cram 81 hours into one month AND still give me two weeks leave. Or the time before that, after returning from leave and they only had 3 workable days left for the month, they still managed to give me 25 hours of duty.
Why hasn't this been addressed by the AOA in the recent negotiations, as I've certainly JRC'ed it and everyone else that I've spoken say the same. It's such an obvious breach of the rostering agreement, yet nothing changes. Why???

GG

This has happened to me many times. :=


Anyone else????

[Striker58]

20 L days and still managed to get me into overtime. Also strongly opposed to zero credit reserve. Fix these 2 issues and I'll vote for RP07.:*

[Mr. Bloggs]

What will stop “Work Stacking”, since it doesn’t happen? According to Holy Land and Skywalker.

What is the solution for reserve? More credit? With 12-hour reserve, will 6 hours be acceptable with no credit? When will the FDP start?

For the “No” voters, you will have to inform the committee on what is acceptable.

My opinion, I believe the company will ask the AOA for a re-vote as a majority of the AOA are in favor.

Why would there be 8 abstentions? Clearly they could have sold their vote to Cathay.

What will be acceptable?

[Striker58]

To answer Mr. Bloggs

Re Reserve, credit it back to 1 for 5 which will give a disincentive to roster long reserve periods and IMHO would be acceptable.

Re stacking the rosters during a month with leave, make the credit 84 divided by 30 which equals 2.8 hours per day on L, that's fair isn't it? How did they come up with 2 hours anyway?

Surely the more credits we get the more pay (or less work) we get and the more pilots the company need to meet the task, which is good for everyone, except maybe management!

[Five Green]

Hey howcome this is not being discussed on the AOA website ?

Cheers

Five

[geh065]

...and so it is official. RP07 has failed and we will have the fallback RP.

What is disconcerting is that so many people voted yes for RP07... over 50%. :bored:

[Loopdeloop]

I don't know why you see the large yes vote as disconcerting, RP 07 is better than the fallback agreement.
The no voters are just gambling on the company and the AOA coming back to renegotiate. Lets hope they do because 2 years on the fallback followed by AFTLs thereafter whilst we wait for a decision from a judge could be quite painful!

[Team America]

I agree with Striker58, 20 L days and still managed to get me into overtime. Also strongly opposed to zero credit reserve. Fix these 2 issues and I'll vote for RP07.
RP07 is not to bad, hopefully a bit of tweaking in the above mentioned area's and I am sure it will get through. The option to have 5-4-3 as a lifestyle request would be nice too.
Lets tell the GC why we voted it down, they need the feedback to fix it and get it through.
BTW the fallback is for 4 years.

[777300ER]

Since the final result is "NO", when can we expect to be working under the fallback agreement?

[octanecolt]

30 days no credit reserve.
Substitution of these no credit reserve days for rostered duties, to limit overtime payments (and they said it would never be done, though how many, including myself have seen it happen)
Reduced recovery times between patterns.
Sure we all want to have rostering included in our COS. Though if this was voted down and put back on the table for further negotiation, it is very likely a better deal would be offered. How else are they going to crew their flights with the proposed expansion.
Vote NO to RP07. We deserve a better agreement.

Quite rightfully RP07 was voted down.... Now lets see how long it takes for the negotiations to start again.... A little but of "give" will go a long way when it comes to a next round of voting.