Arctic Convoys - another forgotten campaign

[WE Branch Fanatic]

I may be wrong here, but I think today (31 August) is the 65th anniversary of the arrival in Russia of the first arctic convoy. Apart from the threats posed by the Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe, crews of warships and merchant vessels faced the dangers of operating in a sub zero environment. A man would have little chance of survival in the water.

Men spent extended periods closed up at action stations, with little ventilation, no proper cooking, terrible weather and ice forming in mess decks. Unsurprisingly there were health effects, including TB. This is how my Grandfather got TB.

Like Bomber Command, the men involved in the convoys to Russia (Army and RAF as well as Royal Navy and Merchant Service) were never issued with a campaign medal. Only recently have the Government decided to award them a clasp for the 1939-1945 medal.

They fought a dangerous enemy in the most hostile climatic conditions. Their contribution may be overlooked compared to the Red Army's offensives against the Germans, but without the supply of both raw materials and vehicles, guns, aircraft, torpedo boats and much else could the Soviets have managed to blunt and then stop the German advance?

[kevmusic]

Thanks for the heads-up on this, WEBF. It costs nothing to formally & richly thank those who have given their all in the last big fight, regardless of the exposure or 'glamour' accorded their tasks.

Kev.

[SASless]

My hat is off to men like these.....two of the survivors were sunk on the return trip making it 75% losses for PQ-17 ships.


PQ-17 was a World War II convoy carrying war matériel from Britain and the USA to the USSR. PQ-17 sailed in June-July 1942 and suffered the heaviest losses of any Russia-bound (PQ) convoy, with 25 vessels out of 36 lost to enemy action.

On the northern route, losses to German aircraft and U-boats had been increasing. In May PQ-16 had lost seven ships, but PQ-17 was the largest and most valuable convoy to date with military equipment valued at over $700 million at that time. The Germans were prompted by Allied success with PQ-16 to reinforce their efforts to break the convoy route to Archangelsk and Murmansk and Operation Rösselsprung was the assembling of naval surface forces to achieve this.

[November4]

Only recently have the Government decided to award them a clasp for the 1939-1945 medal

WEBF any idea of the qualifying criteria for the clasp and is it retrospective rather than you still have to be alive to be awarded the clasp?

My late grandfather sailed on the Artic convoys with the RN. About the only thing he ever said about them was the extreme cold. They had to use steam hoses to try and clear the ice from the upper decks before they became top heavy and how they would be at action stations for days due to the long day light hours and the constant threat of air attack.

[Kluseau]

Aye, an uncle sailed in PQ-16 and the diary he kept made sobering reading. Perhaps one of the most forgotten campaigns of all, so thanks for this WEBF.

How long until some "historian" claims it should actually be credited to the army?

[dakkg651]

WEBF Thanks for the reminder. What those merchant and naval crews went through is beyond my imagination. Pity our Soviet allies didn't seem to be that grateful at the time.

[Skunkerama]

Does anyone know of any good books about this part of the war?

Unfortunatley my Grandad died before I was born so I wasn't lucky enough to hear his story.

I am reading a terrific book at the moment regarding the Eastern Front as told by a German soldier, Forgotten Soldier by Guy Sajer. It is a sobering account of a horrific and brutal war.

Anything regarding the Russian convoys would be a good next read.

[M609]

A hard part of the war indeed.

As a little twist, sometime in july a former Luftwaffe HE-111 pilot (with family, he was 92 now) visited me in the TWR. He was on vacation, and wished to see if he could recognize his old "home base".

The other side, so to speak.

[Wader2]

WEBF any idea of the qualifying criteria for the clasp and is it retrospective rather than you still have to be alive to be awarded the clasp?

My late grandfather sailed on the Artic convoys with the RN. About the only thing he ever said about them was the extreme cold. They had to use steam hoses to try and clear the ice from the upper decks before they became top heavy and how they would be at action stations for days due to the long day light hours and the constant threat of air attack.

I believe the clasp is retrospectively available to widows. I am not sure if it extends to other family.

My father was merchant navy and, from what he said, I had the impression that he had done an Arctic Convoy. However the Marine and Coastguard Agency kingly provided me, at no cost, with a whole sheaf of A2 photocipies of all the vessels that he had sailed on from before up to after the war. It was spooky seeing his signature like that. They also provided a typed transcript where they thought I might have difficulty interpreting what they provided. From this I could find no evidence of his having sailed in northern waters. The only information I had been able to give the MCA was DOB and company.

In my father-in-law's case I had his service number and his ship, HMS Liverpool. I duly filed an application for his widow. I got a negative in the case of my father and no response whatever regarding my FinL; that was about 8 months ago. As Mrs W is so far down the alphabet that may explain the delay.

This is the link: http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/medals/artic.html

[LowNSlow]

WEBF I'm sure the Soviets appreciated the 1,000 Spitfires, 3,000 Hurricanes and 5,000 P-39s that the Western Allies donated as well as the countless tanks, trucks, guns, ammunition and food. Indeed, the Soviet push back against the Germans might not have been possible without it as their aircraft industry was in chaos after being moved to a safer location behind the Ural mountains. Unfortunately they did seem to be very reluctant to either say thanks or show any appreciation of the sacrifice made by the men in the ships delivering the stuff. Not that surprising I suppose given the way that the Soviet High Command treated their own soldiers, sailors and airmen.

A Kazakh friend of mine was amazed to read about the Arctic convoys as this part of WW2 history had never been mentioned in the Soviet view of the Great Patriotic War.

[Wader2]

http://www.war-experience.org/history/keyaspects/rusconvoys0742/default.asp

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=621014399&searchurl=isbn%3D0450012999%26nsa%3D1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/scharnhorst_01.shtml

John Winton was a naval officer who wrote a series of very humourous novels - We Joined the Navy - We went to Sea - Down the Hatch - before moving in to more serious works and eventually naval history. I have not read his account but I am sure it would be a good starter.

Books
Enigma: The Battle for the Code by Hugh Sebag-Montifiore (2000-01)
The Death of the Scharnhorst by John Winton (1983)
Scharnhorst and Gneisenau: The Elusive Sisters by Richard Garrett (1978)
Very Special Intelligence: The Story of the Admiralty's Operational Intelligence Centre - 1939-45 by Patrick Beesly (1977)
The Loss of the 'Scharnhorst' by A J Watts (1970)
The Russian Convoys by BB Schofield (1964)
Memoirs: Ten Years and Twenty Days by Gross-Admiral Karl Doenitz (1959)
The Drama of the 'Scharnhorst': A Factual Account from the German Viewpoint by Corvette-Captain Fitz-Otto Busch (1956)
Hitler and His Admirals by Anthony Martienssen (1948)

[Farmer 1]

Does anyone know of any good books about this part of the war?HMS Ulysses, by Alistair MacLean.

Obviously, it's a novel. It was his first, I believe, and arguably his best.

[Wader2]

And of course the Cruel Sea by Nicholas Monsarrat http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580800467?v=glance

and the film with Jack Hawkins http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045659/

Then there are some very good wartime films based on true stories at the time. Given the conditions of a country at war these films are definitely classics.

<<Noel Coward - a film about HMS Kelly, Mountbatten's destroyer which had been sunk off Crete. Coward agreed providing he retained artistic control and played the lead. The result was a black and white production called In Which We Serve (http://www.britmovie.co.uk/directors/d_lean/filmography/005.html), one of the most successful British war films>>


<<Ealing: Key War-time films included The Big Blockade (1941), The Foreman Went to war, Went the Day Well (1942), San Demetrio-London, and In Which We Serve.>>

<<Gainsborough: 1943, producing films including We Dive At Dawn, Millions Like Us and the Man in Grey.>>
<<Rank: Rank's In Which We Serve, The Way to the Stars.>>

[teeteringhead]

ISTR reading a paperback in my youth called "PQ-17, The Story of a Ship".
One of the reasons I remember is that it was written by someone (whose name now escapes me) who at the time was known to me as some namby-pamby TV presenter or such, but who clearly had "got some time in".
I'll try and remember more details......

[Edited to add:] 'twas Godfrey Winn (who "never married" and had "a wide circle of artistic friends") wot wrote it.

Doesn't appear in a search in a certain South American river, but "PQ-17" as a search in those waters produces a number of other books.....

[Wader2]

I also found this: I recall Godfrey Winn's book as it was one of the earlier ones that I read and clearly would have not had access to Ultra information. Captain Broome's is a contemporary account. I have not mentioned the discredited author of the holocaust denial.


Books on this subject

Winn, Godfrey. P.Q. 17 (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/feedback/feedback?1004963). London: Hutchinson (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/base/pubbers?hutchinson), 1948

Broome, Jack. Convoy is to Scatter (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/feedback/feedback?1006652). London: Kimber (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/base/pubbers?kimber), 1972

Carse, Robert (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/base/author?carse_robert). A Cold Corner of Hell: Story of the Murmansk Convoys, 1941-45 (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/feedback/feedback?1005149). Garden City: Doubleday (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/base/pubbers?doubleday), 1969. http://books.stonebooks.com/images/f.gif

Edwards, Bernard (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/base/author?edwards_bernard). The Road To Russia: Arctic Convoys, 1942-1945 (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/feedback/feedback?1008311). Barnsley, UK: Pen and Sword Books Ltd (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/base/pubbers?penandsword), 2002.

Schofield, B. B. (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/base/author?schofield_bb) Arctic Convoys (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/feedback/feedback?1005292). London: Macdonald (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/base/pubbers?macdonald), 1977.

Woodman, Richard (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/base/author?woodman_richard). The Arctic Convoys, 1941-1945 (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/feedback/feedback?1007346). London: John Murray (http://books.stonebooks.com/cgi-bin/foxweb.exe/base/pubbers?johnmurray), 1996

[TMJ]

HMS Ulysses, by Alistair MacLean.

Obviously, it's a novel. It was his first, I believe, and arguably his best.

Not much argument; it's superb.

[Skunkerama]

Thankyou very much for the "heads up". I'll get a few of these to add to my collection for future reading.

[philrigger]

;)
It seems that there won't be a medal or a clasp issued for the Arctic Convoys.
There will, however, be a small white enamel star with a red centre to be attached to the ribbond of either the 1939-45 Star or the Atlantic Star (All those who served on the convoys should have been awarded either one or both of these medals).

http://www.portsmouthtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1321&ArticleID=1295015


'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

[WE Branch Fanatic]

I was at Navy Days on Monday, as I have no life. A contingent of Arctic Convoy veterans were present for the final cermony, and were given the applause and recognition they so richly deserve.:ok:

[Arclite01]

I have nothing but respect for these men.

The father of a guy I worked with was on them, his stories were hell, spraying decks and riging with steam hoses to keep ice formation down because ice build up was so bad it made ships top heavy and then they keeled over and sank (he saw a corvette go over), the temperatures were minus 30 degrees on an open bridge and bare metal froze straight onto bare skin, if you went into the water you were dead inside a minute.............

really scary stuff.

And yes, the forgotten soldier is a great read....


Arc

[Blacksheep]

My father served in the battleship KGV on arctic convoys as a boy signaller. (Aged 17) He says that KGV was a wet ship and spray would come over the bridge when she dug her nose in. This caused the signals bridge and the foremast rigging to freeze up. He recalls being out on the signalling yard arm clearing ice with an axe and looking at pictures of KGV, that yard arm is around 150 feet above the main deck. I simply can't imagine doing anything like that but such things were SOP for the sailors. He also recalls an Oerlikon gunner on his watch who froze to death in his gun tub when the 'black heater' failed. (I guess a 'black heater' was some kind of electric radiator?)

They deserved a medal just for being there, let alone fighting off u-boat and air attacks. On reaching 'Man's Service' he was drafted into a destroyer on the north atlantic. It says much of the arctic conditions that this was considered good fortune and a soft option.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

I was once told by my late Uncle (WWII RAF aircrew) that my Grandfather had told a tale of when they had encountered a storm that caused waves so strong that it ripped off the flight deck of the escort carrier. So that was the end of their air defence. After the storm, the Luftwaffe came.

Maybe the Arctic Convoys can be considered part of the Battle of the Atlantic, although that too is often overlooked. It started 65 years ago today (the declaration of war) - and lasted really until VE Day.

[antipodean alligator]

There is an immaculate Hurricane in the Alpine Fighter Collection at Wanaka which went to Murmansk on one of these convoys.

[philrigger]

;)

According to an article in the latest edition of Medal News, the Star awarded is to be worn in the lapel of his jacket on occasions when the recipient wears his medals.

'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

[GlosMikeP]

I have nothing but respect for these men.

The father of a guy I worked with was on them, his stories were hell, spraying decks and riging with steam hoses to keep ice formation down because ice build up was so bad it made ships top heavy and then they keeled over and sank (he saw a corvette go over), the temperatures were minus 30 degrees on an open bridge and bare metal froze straight onto bare skin, if you went into the water you were dead inside a minute.............
Arc

That's the same kind of story my grandfather told me when I was a boy in the early 60s from the time he was the engineering officer on HMS Foxtrot on Arctic convoy duties. They nearly rolled on several occasions, saved only by the axe and steam hoses.

He spoke of it in utter horror; undiluted fear for weeks on end.

[45 before POL]

i have complete respect for those that served on the arctic convoys. My uncle served with the Merchant Navy on these routes but would not talk about it until 5 years ago. A lot of his friends ,colleages were lost to the horrific conditions and assaults. Incredible that only recently that their valuable work has ben recognised by this government. The Russians have never hidden from the fact of the value they contributed, and even presenting a special medal in honour of the fact.
thoughts to all those past and present

[November4]

Applied for the "star" on behalf of my late grandfather who died 13 years ago at the beginning of Sept. It arrived this week. Not too sure the design but he would have been pleased to have received it.

[GlosMikeP]

Applied for the "star" on behalf of my late grandfather who died 13 years ago at the beginning of Sept. It arrived this week. Not too sure the design but he would have been pleased to have received it.
How did you do that? What evidence did you need to produce? I'm sure others would like to do similarly, me included.

[November4]

I followed the link from Wader on page 1 to the Veterans Agency

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/medals/artic.html

Filled out a short form - they do ask for details of any ships / convoys served on if known or copies of service records. I could only give his ship and a possible convoy number. Got my mother to sign the form as next of kin and 5-6 weeks later it arrived.

There was a article on You and Yours on Fri 20/10 covering this and they said that it was awarded posthumously (good job as my grandfather died 13 years ago) and all that was needed was 1 days service in the Artic area.

[Pontius Navigator]

GMP,

There is a form you can search for and download. If military it is relatively simple - ship, rank, service number. I applied for my MinL and she got it for her husband last week.

Merchant Navy is slightly trickier. You need the records of service and a list of ships in which the seaman served. The list of merships that went to Russia is on a website. If the 2 match then you send the evidence - ships name, date served, etc in the same way.

How to find the ship? Write to the Marine and Coastguard Agency. They provided me with photocopies of all the papers for the ships that my father had signed on with - all the ships!

There is a catch. These are the papers for which he signed on in UK. It says whether the ship was going foreign or home. It does not say where it was going. If it failed to return it does not include signing off details either. One of his ships was sunk but the MCA had no mention of that.

I recall my father talking of the Arctic convoys, he certainly had the Atlantic Star, but none of the ships that he signed on with was listed as going on the Russian convoys. His stories of throwing cigarettes to the women working the docks at Murmansk, while a fact, might have been stories he related from the press. When I have a moment I will continue my research.

Research it the key.

[GlosMikeP]

GMP,

There is a form you can search for and download. If military it is relatively simple - ship, rank, service number.

Research it the key.

Thanks PN, couldn't e-mailme the link could you? Should be easy enough after that as my grandfather was RN.

[Pontius Navigator]

Sorry Mike, I would have to search for it too.

Try the Veterans Agency for a start. Google will find it, I only downloaded a form a week ago as we had heard nothing about the application.

[November4]

er.........

I followed the link from Wader on page 1 to the Veterans Agency

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/medals/artic.html

About half way down that page is "Application for Arctic Emblem - Questionnaire" The link is below

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/pdfs/medals/artic_emblem.pdf

But seems to be a broken link at the moment........have looked for a copy of the one that I sent off but looks like I didn't keep an electronic copy - sorry

[Zoom]

Have to agree about HMS Ulysses, the only novel I have ever read more than once. I still shiver when I think of it - like now.

[stevfire2]

skunkarama, if you can, try a book called "the kola run", old now and possibly out of print. what those guys went through! i had an uncle on the convoys, this shows what it was like. even my dad, of bomber command, took his hat off to those men!

[Pontius Navigator]

The link is below http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/pdfs/medals/artic_emblem.pdf
But seems to be a broken link at the moment.
I have found that Government URLs often go down at a weekend. Either don't pay the staff or the electric bill.

[aviate1138]

skunkarama, if you can, try a book called "the kola run", old now and possibly out of print. what those guys went through! i had an uncle on the convoys, this shows what it was like. even my dad, of bomber command, took his hat off to those men!
The Merchant Navy widows, I am led to believe, after having been told their husbands had paid the ultimate price, found the pay stopped when the ship foundered and there was a charge deducted for loss of uniform!
Cruel Sea isn't the phrase, Cruel Bast*rds is more to the point.
My Mothers distant cousin was torpedoed 3 times and survived, the 4th one got him. I think one dose of torpedoing would have had me seeking a shore job!
Aviate 1138

[Wader2]

The Veterans' website is now up.

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/medals/artic.html

[Double Zero]

A good friend, who taught me to sail along with being an inspector then draughtsman for BAe, Charlie Solley, was on the Murmansk run in an Escort Carrier.

In that particular ship ( can ask again which ) they had Swordfish - he mentioned that the Pegasus engines had to be started on the way up on the lift, if no joy it was too cold on deck so back down again !

Naturally enough he finished his employment with another Pegasus...