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Mr Blake
31st Aug 2006, 07:16
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/5300740.stm

Finally we have reached breaking point and can no longer support FBU strike action by providing fire cover. Our overstretched forces are of course fighting fires elsewhere. Will this finally make the goverment sit up and take notice? :uhoh:

Mad_Mark
31st Aug 2006, 10:33
I see that in the past few minutes they have changed the paragraph...

The British Army, which usually covers during industrial action, has been unable to help out due to military commitments.

to...

The British Army has been unable to help out due to military commitments.

Pressure on the BBC from non-Army Military personnel, pointing out that all 3 services usually provide cover :confused:

MadMark!!! :mad:

Tombstone
31st Aug 2006, 10:42
Last time I looked, there were plenty of Harrier mates sitting around doing nothing, or was that the Jag crewroom? ;)

LFFC
31st Aug 2006, 10:48
No, that's old news. See here, dated 20 May 06:

Military back-up refused for strike by firefighters (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226941&highlight=fire+dispute)

That's perhaps why the BBC took out the clause "which usually covers during industrial action".

GlosMikeP
31st Aug 2006, 10:58
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/5300740.stm

Finally we have reached breaking point and can no longer support FBU strike action by providing fire cover. Our overstretched forces are of course fighting fires elsewhere. Will this finally make the goverment sit up and take notice? :uhoh:

You may find an answer in Dundiggin's thread of 20 Aug, re defence finances - which is what manpower comes down to in the end. In a word: bleak.:sad:

R 21
31st Aug 2006, 11:28
AND WHY SHOULD WE?????

Why should some 17 year old squaddie on a pittance of a wage cover for the firemen who only work 6 months a year and get a hell of a lot more than an Army private ??

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Avtur
31st Aug 2006, 11:35
Tombstone, I think you will find the E3-D fleet are available too.

On_The_Top_Bunk
31st Aug 2006, 12:15
Don't forget to look in the TypHoon crew rooms too.

Mr Blake
31st Aug 2006, 12:45
I agree with R21 - why should we?:D

To elaborate further: I had a Fireman living at the bottom of my street, who easily held down two jobs, because he slept all night on shift. I often wondered how he afforded a new car every year and lived in a massive house, and yet had the gall to strike for more pay.
Some of my chaps who covered the last strike couldn't believe their luck. Sleep through your shift, and get the next day off, whilst we at the MOB struggled on. Good to see the boys let slip this to the press, with the subsequent sympathy vote for the calendar boys hitting an all time low.:O

Two's in
31st Aug 2006, 15:18
To answer "why should we", it used to be called MACC - Military Aid to the Civil Community, and is part of the Defence Strategy.

Kitbag
31st Aug 2006, 15:26
MACC wasn't intended to pull employers out of the fire. It was intended to be used in times of natural disaster, floods etc, or if there was a revolution or evidence of third columnist activity in TTW the local CC could ask for assitance. Getting involved in industrial disputes is not MACC, it is politics.

snowball1
31st Aug 2006, 15:35
Dont mind a spot of fresco, however last time i covered the highlands, the wife south wales, so i ended up nearly £300 out of pocket for the privilege!!

The Gorilla
31st Aug 2006, 15:47
I thought the E3D fleet were poised to enjoy the delights of block 101 at Akrotiri in support of the lebanese blockade or something like that!!
:}

Mr Blake
1st Sep 2006, 09:14
The question now is, will this military refusal set a precedent, and what will happen when the next inevitable national strike comes along?:confused:

Surely we won't be able to sit back and let GB burn, no matter how stretched we are?:\

airborne_artist
1st Sep 2006, 09:26
I think you'll find the well ran dry for the green jobs a while back. Otherwise why would they have mobilised so many TA for service sandy-side? TA mate of mine recently spent 6 months in Afg because Hereford had run out of people :confused:

PompeySailor
1st Sep 2006, 09:34
The question now is, will this military refusal set a precedent, and what will happen when the next inevitable national strike comes along?:confused:

Surely we won't be able to sit back and let GB burn, no matter how stretched we are?:\

We will turn our 200+ spin doctors loose, so that the public know that the FBU are striking in the face of warnings that they will not be bailed out by the Armed Forces (note, media, that's all of us, not just the Army!). Whilst strikes do have their place in society to draw attention to oppressive or restrictive work practices, when you strike and expect your job to be done by people who are paid less than you for doing an arguably more dangerous job, then you need your legs slapped.

Anybody remember Andy Gilchrist? Wonder if he is still investing huge amounts of his members' finances on extravagant meals?

South Bound
1st Sep 2006, 09:45
I think you will find that the Fire Brigades always provided cover for life-threatening fires (they certainly did in my FRESCO area), using it as PR - 'look at us, we are on strike but still save the day!!!!'

Hence the only real risk is to the insurance companies that foot the bill for unoccupied property burning down.

IMHO, public support for firefighters has dropped to such a level that they would be barking to try it again - it is no longer seen as a fight to be paid fairly, it is greed that is putting peoples' lives and property at risk. I believe that most firefighters were so embarrassed over the last farce that it will not happen again for some time, especially if the government sticks to its guns that there is no alternative from the military. It is just such a shame that the FBU officials were permitted to drag down the reputation of a group of people who are prepared to put their lives on the line (albeit very, very infrequently...)

Zoom
1st Sep 2006, 09:51
Whoever said that firemen don't work for a living is talking rubbish. I've just had a quote from a local fireman to install new fencing around my property, but he can't start for a month as he has some other contracts to deal with first. And he accepts payment only in cash. Naturally.

South Bound
1st Sep 2006, 10:03
Zoom - I do hope you are reporting him to the IR then....? If not, PM me his details and I will.

PompeySailor
1st Sep 2006, 10:06
Zoom - I do hope you are reporting him to the IR then....? If not, PM me his details and I will.

Not until after he's finished installing my kitchen you won't!

Mr Blake
1st Sep 2006, 10:09
That must be the same bloke as in post No9:)

airborne_artist
1st Sep 2006, 10:19
I'm old enough to remember the firemen striking in 1977 - and the Pompey-based sailors who I worked with at the time (I was waiting to join the FAA, and temping in Pompey) who had to take second jobs because they were so badly paid.

Firemen seem to have got what they want, and more, and with little impact on their second jobs.

Just wish I could say the same for Jack.

Ali Barber
1st Sep 2006, 12:18
I thought the last time this came up, it was pointed out that the Green Goddesses had been sold off and we could no longer stand in for the FB, even if we weren't overstretched.

South Bound
1st Sep 2006, 12:24
Yep, but there is so much surplus firefighting kit that the Green Goddesses actually were not needed. That was one of the big fights during the last FRESCO - the firemen were happy for us to use the GGs, but hated the idea of us turning up in a red fire engine - perhaps because if people saw us look the same, then they might work out there is nothing particularly special or mystical about firemen....

You should have heard the rubbish they spouted about refusing to use any vehicle/kit that we touched because we would make it unsafe - claimed they would have to scrap every hose, connector, suit, BA - it was pathetic

Mr Blake
1st Sep 2006, 12:45
You should have heard the rubbish they spouted about refusing to use any vehicle/kit that we touched because we would make it unsafe - claimed they would have to scrap every hose, connector, suit, BA - it was pathetic[/quote]

I think the term childish would be more appropriate. They are one of the few remaining union cartels left, who still feel they can frighten the goverment into satisfying their demands. They are slowly being modernised, but like a drowning man are thrashing about in vain. For me, their introduction into the 21st century can't come soon enough.:{

airborne_artist
1st Sep 2006, 13:24
When the rest of us work nights we expect to work. When firefighters work nights they won't do anything apart from check their kit and go to calls. They won't carry out training, for example, despite the fact that they are being paid for a duty.

BBC report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4654984.stm) about £400 reclining chairs to replace the bunks from the dormitories.

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Skunkerama
1st Sep 2006, 13:31
One of my best mates is a fireman. He's also an ex bootneck, so it surprises me when he now spouts utter crap regarding union rules and more pay / less time rubbish.

I think that the Fireservice is now pretty rotten and should be replaced with a new and more organised group. If these people can't handle the work then cut them loose and offer them a contract that they WILL sign.

South Bound
1st Sep 2006, 13:39
Interesting the numbers of RAF Firemen that have PVR'd since experiencing FRESCO. Can't blame them really when they can walk into the Fire Service on twice as much money with half the work...(IMHO, obviously!!!)

Mr Blake
1st Sep 2006, 13:47
I heard a rumour that they are no longer recruiting from the Services, because of the "scab" factor in covering their strikes.:oh:

South Bound
1st Sep 2006, 14:28
I am sure that would make for an interesting equal ops claim...

Krystal n chips
1st Sep 2006, 15:13
As AA says, the firemen had a genuine grievance back in 1977 and obtained a result from the dispute that ensured they were subsequently well provided for overall. Fair enough--at the time. Life moves on however --other than in some of the last bastions of union cartels it seems. For those of you who missed it--which will be the majority for obvious geographical reasons, the interview with the union rep here on Granada News was, er, revealing. To summate--and this will come as no surprise---he not only looked like a guest part in Life on Mars---the rhetoric and justification for the strike was also pure 70's. :ugh:

Thus I wonder why the firemen seemingly continue to elect a representative so entrenched in the past, rather than one who could advance their cause without recourse to "one out" etc. On the other hand, with regard to union practices, I would venture to suggest in the light of very recent experience, that those connected with the public sector are seemingly unaware of the fact it is now 2006 :mad:

The Gorilla
1st Sep 2006, 15:44
Krystal wrote:
Thus I wonder why the firemen seemingly continue to elect a representative so entrenched in the past, rather than one who could advance their cause without recourse to "one out" etc.

Because they work in a democracy and they can! They have voted for someone who will look after their interests come what may. A lot of the comments on here come from those of you who do not work in a democratic environment and have no one to look after you. All I can say is don't knock it until you try it!
:)

airborne_artist
1st Sep 2006, 15:57
Gorilla - I work in the ultimate democratic environment - I'm self-employed, so my customers vote on me every time they place an order!

The idea that a firefighter refuses to undertake training because they are on nights is about as outdated as you can get in terms of "working practices".

The Army is under-recruited across the infantry, and many other trades. When did you ever hear that the Fire Service was "having trouble getting the calibre of new recruits"? The Fire Service acknowledge that they get about 100 applications for each vacancy. Go figure ;)

Krystal n chips
1st Sep 2006, 16:08
Krystal wrote:
Because they work in a democracy and they can! They have voted for someone who will look after their interests come what may. A lot of the comments on here come from those of you who do not work in a democratic environment and have no one to look after you. All I can say is don't knock it until you try it!
:)

Gorilla----sorry mate, but I did and I have and frankly--this from a dedicated Grudian reader btw :) --the union reps were all so far entrenched up a certain managerial orifice, they were neither use nor ornament. I appreciate what your saying however, but frankly in this case I don't think the firemen have a valid case. And just for info. I have spent the last 7days delivering to various University sites around the UK--it's a nice little contract--however, during that time I have lost count of the number I have visited where the porters--ostensibly there to help--cannot or would not assist. Not to mention the classic "sorry, we don't work over lunch" excuse---not even to lift a pen to sign ??---like I said, it's a public sector issue.

The Gorilla
1st Sep 2006, 18:55
krystal

I agree that it is mainly a public sector issue but as those on here who are serving will tell you, HMG/Local Authorities would have you work 24 hours a day 365 days a year and pay you in tokens if they could get away with it. As well as make you bring your own equipment to do the job. The Firemen have voted the union reps in and have to live with their choice just as the NUM have had to since 84/85. Why should Public Sector workers be flexible (I am NOT public sector by the way) when the Civil Service and most of HMG most certainly are not. After all we have jobsworths everywhere in our green and pleasant land, that's why you can't buy bananas in pounds anymore!