No No No! [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

Challenger-Deep

31st Aug 2006, 13:58

cpdude

31st Aug 2006, 15:18

Just a guess....you don't get affected by DEFO's Pax..... I'm alright so stuff the rest...whatever Dude!
I don't mind the company expanding aggressively as long as there is fair compensation to those waiting longer for upgrades....
When will guys like you get it. The process in CX will never change as long as you have an association instead of a legal union representing workers.
B scale guys blame A scale guys for not standing up.
Freighter scale guys blame B/A scale guys for not standing up.
The new DEFO 07 guys will blame everyone else for not standing up.
Nothing will change and people will just have to get over it.
Bottom line...I can't stop it and niether can you!:)

Oh, good guess but not a tough one considering DEFO 07 doesn't start till Jan 07.

Progress Wanchai

31st Aug 2006, 15:30

"Where you are in your career today will have a bearing on how much, if at all, this proposal will affect you." :sad:
Ha ha ha. Obviously the likes of ST and the rest of his puppets have never heard of A Scale/ B Scale. By his logic, B Scale has never had a bearing upon A Scale COS.
Picking holes in this proposal is about as challenging as picking up a tart in Fenwicks, just not nearly as much fun.

PS, I hope PC keeps his word and keeps my identity anonomous after winning the "name the plane" award:yuk:

ALPHA FLOOR

1st Sep 2006, 02:37

cpdude

1st Sep 2006, 03:20

CP DUDE...........

Sorry mate you are WRONG --- I am 36 and F/O.

AND MY VOTE IS STILL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regardless of A scale / B Scale or any previous debarkles, I have an opertunity to change things from here on out and I will be doing my best to do so. Anyone who spent any time reading the proposed changes to COS07 will see how the door is left open to screw future S/O's...........

NO, NO, NO!

AFL

I may have been wrong about your age and position but you won't change a thing at least for the better you won't.

Age 60 will happen one way or another. Let's get something for it before we lose that option. Other states are now looking at 65!

DEFO Pax needs to happen because of the limitations placed by the freighter fleet. Ideally, I would like to see a unified fleet where we fly both freighters and pax like the old days. ASL guys can remain freighter only and the rest fly both.

RP07 is better than the fall back plan. I say keep the relations positive between Company and Members and continue to make small progress.

So, are you No/No/No for a valid reason or are you so anti-company your not willing to listen or look at the offer?:hmm:

Challenger-Deep

1st Sep 2006, 04:26

CP Dude i agree with what you are saying...the company is going to do what they want! However that does not mean i have to roll over and allow them to. Granted there is not much for me to do...except vote No to some of the issues.
RP07 is better than the fall back but DEFO(P) and Age 60 leave alot to be desired!
I also want the company to keep growing from strength to strength BUT good relations go both ways. There should be some form of incentive besides goodwill to accept these changes!
Two years of huge profits versus No profit share/No dicussion on Pay increase/DEFO's/Age 60........... they take and we give??
Sounds good if you management!!!
Cheers;)

Re-entry

1st Sep 2006, 05:01

This submissive attitude of 'the company will do want it wants' could possibly be averted by allying with the FAU in some way. They have teeth, and are still wrongfooted by the lack of bonus payout. No idea how it could work, just a thought.

Night Watch

1st Sep 2006, 05:39

NO to age 60

NO to DEFO

YES to RP07..... better then the fall back

ALPHA FLOOR

1st Sep 2006, 06:16

".......RP 07 better than fall back........."

What about free reserve for 30 days?
What about my 5-4-3?
What about.......

I want this outfit to grow too but that does not meen take it up the tail pipe every single time. ENOUGH so I say NO and am not all "anti company".

"NO" is the only way on these current 3 issues.

AFL

ALPHA FLOOR

1st Sep 2006, 06:18

I would say YES to engaging with the FAU.

Buzzy

1st Sep 2006, 08:31

I have been following this Direct Entry FO (Pax) debate for sometime now, but what I have yet to establish is how it will affect current SO upgrade times. Can anyone shed any light on this? I notice that there is a threshold in the new deal that will stop SO's receiving Bypass Pay until 42 months service. Is there a restriction like this in the current contract? Many thanks for your help!

cpdude

5th Sep 2006, 03:41

Just a guess...you're both 25 and S/O's?:oh:

ALPHA FLOOR and Challenger-Deep,

I owe you both an apology! After reading and educating myself on the CoS07 and RP07 you are right. They suck.

I am converted and no longer support these proposals.:=

tifters

5th Sep 2006, 04:50

Our issues at hand are contractual, lets not all forget that. It is much harder for the company to just get what they want, we have to agree to it first.(although, their method of a gun to the head is an old but trusted method) We must hang on for as long as poss, send this crap back to them, negotiate or pi$$ off.
Age 60 may happen as per local legislation, but if it does go that way then fine, CX will be in breach of discrimination laws if they then want to pay 55+ ers less than their counterparts because of their age!!!!
RP07, no protection for lifestyle, no real penalties for overtime for the company, free reserve, no 5-4-3, doing 90+ hours a month will be the norm soon, yeah you will have more money in the bank, but only your partners will have time to spend it!!
No-No-No

ALPHA FLOOR

5th Sep 2006, 05:57

CPDUDE..... "ALPHA FLOOR and Challenger-Deep, I owe you both an apology!" ...........

None necessary.:ok:

JUST TELL YOUR MATES TO VOTE NO, NO, NO!

Cpt. Underpants

5th Sep 2006, 07:25

"CPDUDE" is not an AOA Member, therefore has no vote. His mates are not likely to be members either...sucks, dunnit?

Get off your posturing butts and join, fer Pete's sake. How long will it take to figure this out?

Kitsune

5th Sep 2006, 08:41

It's worth remembering that the HKAOA is an association that has always been run for the benefit of the senior, as indeed are almost all unions and associations of this kind.

This is obviously apparent when you consider the results of the last such major change in new joiners conditions of service the introduction of B scale....all A Scale Captains, including those on the GC at the time (some of whom, I think, are still with the Company now on extensions), either have or will retire happily on their A scale wages. For those of you with the facility, check the eventual vote for the B scale resolution, and the quid pro quo the company offered for the introduction of the B scale.....it should make interesting reading.

For them, B scale made no difference apart from some low scale yammering in the right seat for a while. How do you propose to stop history repeating itself? :ugh:

Fly747

5th Sep 2006, 08:42

Not sure I understand what 5-4-3 is, can someone explain please.

cpdude

5th Sep 2006, 14:52

"CPDUDE" is not an AOA Member, therefore has no vote. His mates are not likely to be members either...sucks, dunnit?

:eek: :E :confused: :}

Are you sure about that?

Cpt. Underpants

5th Sep 2006, 21:22

Absolutely, positively, 100%

amos2

9th Sep 2006, 10:18

So!...why should the non members join, Pants?

So you can tell them how much you'll support them, when the "****e hits the fan"...

and then walk away from them as you did with the 49ers!...

while running your little kids book business on the side!

You're in the wrong job, mate!!

BusyB

9th Sep 2006, 11:54

Amos2,

The truth is that being an AOA member does not exclude you from supporting the 49'ers financially or otherwise. There is an anonymous bank account if required and I have certainly not stopped supporting my colleagues.

The AOA is, despite what some would say, representing more than 50% of the CX pilots and I can say have improved greatly what CX would have done otherwise. In addition representatives are defending your FTL's against a number of attempts to relax them. Yes, laugh at IFALPA, but if you're in jail somewhere for an incident you'll be more than happy to get their help and support.

sizematters

11th Sep 2006, 14:22

who gives a F$#K what you guts think with your NO, No, No

Like you can influence the outcome

:ugh: someone stop me from laughing at these w#$k*&s

please !!!!:=

cpdude

11th Sep 2006, 14:35

who gives a F$#K what you guts think with your NO, No, No
Like you can influence the outcome
:ugh: someone stop me from laughing at these w#$k*&s
please !!!!:=

Troll Alert!:=

ACMS

12th Sep 2006, 01:24

NO
NO
NO
clear enough?

Trashed Aviator

12th Sep 2006, 07:13

Hurry up and resolve it , I need a real job.............

crjflier7

6th Oct 2006, 18:11

I need to know before Oct. 31 for my first interview. If I'm not going to have a shot at a DEFO on the pax side, with a decent pay scale and schedule, I'm not coming on board... The company, in my opnion, will have a hard time attracting quality pilots, at least from the US.

Team America

8th Oct 2006, 01:25

:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

Well said guys, CX needs lots and lots of pilots and the more quailfied guys who say no the better. I think they (CX management) will be surprised at the lack of people rushing to take the 'C' scale package offered.

Hopefully will drive them to increase the deal.

I hear Korean Air is offering USD$14k per month for DEC on 744, with 15 days off per month and 1st class travel to your home port for your days off (travel on the company time as well :ok: ) .It is contract work, but hey not a bad deal.

More airlines start doing this and CX recruitment will be in trouble.

cpdude

8th Oct 2006, 02:31

I hear Korean Air is offering USD$14k per month for DEC on 744, with 15 days off per month and 1st class travel to your home port for your days off (travel on the company time as well :ok: ) .It is contract work, but hey not a bad deal.
More airlines start doing this and CX recruitment will be in trouble.

I heard a rumour that they are also scheduling expat crews together as well!:ok:

If it's true, I think CX may be in for a sudden reduction of select crews.:ooh:

Team America

8th Oct 2006, 05:33

Might not need a vote on age 60 with those conditions being offered.

Hopefully the word gets out so these guys on "New York base Hong Kong roster" (which is not good for anyone, except the company) will maybe say bye bye.

FlexibleResponse

10th Oct 2006, 14:39

It is interesting to sit back and watch the young bucks strutting, posturing and shadow boxing all and sundry. Yet over time they come to realise who is the common enemy and see that without teaming together in some ort of association they cannot take on the might of the coporate structure and their individual efforts are doomed to failure.

And as usual BusyB 's comments and sage advice are right on the money.

pahogan

20th Oct 2006, 07:58

I hear Korean Air is offering USD$14k per month for DEC on 744, with 15 days off per month and 1st class travel to your home port for your days off (travel on the company time as well :ok: ) .It is contract work, but hey not a bad deal.

I've heard this rumour as well but has anyone actually seen anything in writing? If so, where. I'm interested.:O

Team America

20th Oct 2006, 14:02

Try http://www.euro-pacific-aviation.com/

Don't know if it is the contract company offering the 747-400 deal for Korean Air, otherwise checkout the contract companies listed here.

http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/index.htm

Because of the competive nature of the contract game you won't find out the remuneration package till you apply. You might get ball park figures by calling them.

Good to see there is plenty of work out there compared to a few years ago.
Good luck :ok: