BBC 1 - Red Arrows [Archive]

charliegolf

28th Aug 2006, 17:10

Dunno about Woodward.

Just watched the prog- enjoyed it.

I was well impressed with the thorough, professional, structured, analytical and no expense spared way in which the process was conducted.

Right up to the point at which they binned all the above, and voted for who they'd like best as a new chum. Priceless, really priceless.

CG

STAN DEASY

28th Aug 2006, 17:18

Being typical WAFu i thought that the quote of the staff showing the candidates where the bar was referred to alcohol. Now threin lies the difference in the Fleet Air Arm and RAF!

Tombstone

28th Aug 2006, 17:23

Throughout the programme, they kept pointing out that the Reds were looking for 2 new pilots for next season. I always thought that they selected 3 pilots each year so, when did that change?

ExRAFRadar

28th Aug 2006, 17:25

CG - bit harsh.

There was a lot more going on than I imagined there would be for selection.

To be fair and I acknowledge the cameras may have played a part; some of those answers to the interview questions were lame.

What is the first thing you were told to say to the question "What if you are unsuccessful this time?” Answer "Try again next year sir"

And I also appreciate the candidate in question was being honest.

What did surprise me was the lack of confidence in front line FJ pilots when faced with the formation test. As someone who grew up with the absolute faith that Pilots are Gods it was a surprise. And please that is not a criticism, just an eye opener. I guess there is more to selection than stick and rudder.

I was amazed that the New Zealand chap got turned down. On TV he looked like he was stuck to the leader like the proverbial on a blanket.

Overall a good effort. It managed to not be too tacky.

At least Jeremy Clarkson did not do the presenting. :)

Raymond Ginardon

28th Aug 2006, 17:26

I had to chuckle at the number of times the 'Wooooosh!!!" noise was dubbed on - particularly when the ac was rolled!!

It could have been a LOT worse though (imagine the American equivalent.... Ugh!).

Ray :-)

A2QFI

28th Aug 2006, 17:29

As someone who has worked with "Kermit" I too was amazed that he missed out on selection. The photography and editing were first rate - shame about the music though!

Fokkerwokker

28th Aug 2006, 17:34

Would I be right in saying the two that did get selected didn't even have 'face time' on camera?

charliegolf

28th Aug 2006, 17:40

ExRAFR

Maybeeeee...

But that last selection scene (at least in the editing) made the whole thing smack of a club for the chaps.

As for the Kiwi, I genuinely wished he'd responded to the

'What if you are not successful',

question, with, 'No you only get 2 chances, I won't be here again'. It would have served him better. Shame- I liked him.

CG

scottyhs

28th Aug 2006, 17:54

Yes jim was a staffie on a vgs if what i was told recently is true

BEagle

28th Aug 2006, 18:09

A good programme!

The vast majority of the candidates seemed good chaps - but the FJ squirearchy seemed a miserable bunch....

Good luck to the successful guys!

x10ge

28th Aug 2006, 18:20

Great program. Obviously with 2 winning and seven losing there will be some disappointments. Sadly, when I worked at Kemble they all seemed so old. Now they all seem so young. A nice advert for the Hawk though. Will they get 128?

rusty_y2k2

28th Aug 2006, 18:24

I watched it, and there was some really impressive cinematography in there in my opinion and it was a well put together program.

The only downfall is that at the end, after being told which guys got through I was left thinking "who?" - it seems the show focused only among a core of 4 or so of the pilots, none of whom were the ones who got through. Only seeing people be rejected at the end was odd too, wouldn't you want to film the successful guys?

x10 - I too wondered about the 128 when they mentioned all the analogue equipment etc...

FFP

28th Aug 2006, 18:25

So they covered Bollard, Jim Woodward, Duffy and Kermit.

But the 2 that got in didn't appear at all !?!?!?

Why did The Beeb not cover everyone, and then edit it to show something about those that got in ?

charliegolf

28th Aug 2006, 18:30

FFP,

Where failure is an option, you can be sure that the 'victims'' approvals would have been required. Presumably, the others said, 'No!'.

CG

Wrathmonk

28th Aug 2006, 18:33

Hmm - I though the old "happy with publicity" was a pre-requisite to join the Reds and therefore no was not an option!

Perhaps they spoke to someone who thought he was in the know (PMA?!) and it was they who suggested following the 4 who didn't make it!

Off topic - anyone in the Scottish region seen the TV prog following the studes through the GR4 OCU? That's if its been on yet!

Green Flash

28th Aug 2006, 18:36

Perhaps they spoke to someone who thought he was in the know (PMA?!) and it was they who suggested following the 4 who didn't make it!

Exactly the comment Mrs GF, a woman not known for her searing clarity of military avaition, said! Looks like the Producer backed the wrong horses?:confused:

ExRAFRadar

28th Aug 2006, 18:46

CG I see your point.

But surely there is more going on than "Right chaps, who do you want in ?"

Or is it really a case of a 'Well we know who we want, lets get them in"

It is frustrating that to the viewer that has a slightly more in depth insight than the average person, the question 'Why they failed' is never answered.

But then again would the average viewer care?

One thing I do know - my 7 year old daughter watched the Reds do their thing and at one point leant foreward and whispered - "That is so cool".

Mission accomplished Gentlemen.

BEagle

28th Aug 2006, 18:53

Unfortunately she was looking at the 'Seventies Party' section at the time.....

Squadgy

28th Aug 2006, 19:00

one of the candidates is a Flt Lt Jim Woodwood, age 31. He looks remarkably like a staff cadet who was on the VGS at Ternhill in the early 90s' The age and appearance match.
Does anyone know if this is him?

Yep, he was at Ternhill when I was doing BGT. Also ex 162 (Stockport) ATC Sqn IIRC. Nice guy, good to see him having a go at getting in the Reds.

Widger

28th Aug 2006, 19:04

Missed it unfortunately. Spent the time avoiding Pr*&s on the A31.

But what you have to remember is, the Reds would never have existed were it not for the Royal Navy. An emminent Defence Expert at the college of knowledge has written a paper that shows that without the RNs expertise in Officer of the Watch manoeuvres, the RAF would never have had a display team.

Corpen Starboard anyone?

FFP

28th Aug 2006, 19:10

FFP,
Where failure is an option, you can be sure that the 'victims'' approvals would have been required. Presumably, the others said, 'No!'.
CG

Fair point indeed.

Wrathmonk makes a good point also about the publicity side.

They mentioned Chris Rodgers in the programme. If it's the same guy (and there can't be too many of them)I'd have thought his display pilot / Hawk background would have made him a cert....

GasFitter

28th Aug 2006, 19:35

Throughout the programme, they kept pointing out that the Reds were looking for 2 new pilots for next season. I always thought that they selected 3 pilots each year so, when did that change?
I think that you're right, but if the Boss changes, then they will only select 2. Therefore, I suppose the Boss is due to change this year! Only a thought!:hmm:

nick0021

28th Aug 2006, 19:57

Unfortunately i was otherwise engaged, and missed the programme. Does anyone know where i may be able to get a copy of it? Perhaps asking the BBC?

Cheers,

Nick

REF

28th Aug 2006, 20:01

It was interesting to see how the selection process is made. Apart from the awful music is had some really good photography.

Human Factor

28th Aug 2006, 20:16

Julia Bradbury (not bad but Suzy Perry would always get my vote) mentioned on a couple of occasions that the Red Arrows sole function was recruitment and PR for the RAF. I remember many years ago as a very lucky Space Cadet on work experience with RAFAT and CFS at Scampton being told that their main function was to market UK PLC (and help BAE flog the odd Hawk or ten). Recruiting and PR was secondary. Has that changed?

By the way, if anyone with a red flying suit wants to swap their day job for my 777, they're welcome.;)

ExRAFRadar

28th Aug 2006, 20:51

:)
Beagle - As it happened she did ask me why they were 'dressed funny'. God it made me feel old.

But the bit she did like was the flying, even if I was a tad disappointed she asked me 'why is the green bit above them ?' when they were inverted.

What followed was based on a bit (lot) of Vino, limited knowledge of inverted flight and not a small amount of WW2 war films as my hands tried to describe formation flight upside down.

Needless to say that by the time I had finished explaining it all and telling eveyone how I could have been a FJ pilot, the room was very, very quite.

In the words of the Sun reporter faced with paying for a 'special massage' I made my excuses and left.

Tombstone

28th Aug 2006, 21:03

I think that you're right, but if the Boss changes, then they will only select 2. Therefore, I suppose the Boss is due to change this year! Only a thought!:hmm:

That would indeed make sense, Dick is leaving the Reds this year.

SirToppamHat

28th Aug 2006, 21:08

That will be Wing Commander Dickie P I understand.

STH

ppljames

28th Aug 2006, 21:13

Yea Jim was a member of that said VGS i had a good chat to him when i visited Valley on an atc camp, he even strapped me in to the hawk as he got the flight for me.

Hueymeister

28th Aug 2006, 21:22

I am going to have to ask the 30 something 'shallow as a tea spoon' question and ask ' so who nailed Julia then?

Well I would....given half a chance..and she'd have to pretty pissed to go for me!!
HM

WPH

28th Aug 2006, 21:37

Great programme - love 'em or hate 'em it's refreshing to see some good publicity for the RAF. That should keep the AFCOs busy for a few weeks! :D
Well done to the participants, despite having to suffer their disappointment on camera.

FormerFlake

28th Aug 2006, 21:45

I shared a room with Jim during IOT. He was a former VGS pilot and went Jags from memory.

There was this one time, after a night out in Lincoln when Jim ended up :mad: :mad: with :mad: . How we laughed.

PhoenixDaCat

28th Aug 2006, 22:27

Unfortunately i was otherwise engaged, and missed the programme. Does anyone know where i may be able to get a copy of it? Perhaps asking the BBC?
Cheers,
Nick

If you are really desperate to see it, I still have it on the Sky+ box and could put it on to DVD for you.

Nice to see someone I knew from my days as a cadet achieve his ambition (well almost).

lukeylad

28th Aug 2006, 22:42

Did anyone hear the presenter say that the vc-10 was the fastest airliner in the world is that true??

goldcup

28th Aug 2006, 23:23

M0.94 if the spoilsports at BAe take away the speed restriction. Normally M0.84, M0.866 if the pub is beckoning.

Wee Weasley Welshman

29th Aug 2006, 06:11

I was a staff cadet and instructor at the same time as Jim Woodward was on 632 VGS at Ternhill and I have several issues with Jim:

1) How in the name of Lucifers slippers does he manage to look just as young as he did when he was 21 at 31? Git.

2) It was an article of faith amongst all on 632 that, some day, Jim will be in the bleedin Red Arrows - so he's better re-apply pronto.

3) A nicer fellow I think I've rarely met.

Enjoyable programme, interesting insight and comiserations to those who "failed".

WWW

BEagle

29th Aug 2006, 06:29

M0.94? Dream on......

The VC10K could certainly cruise at M0.88 indicated, but used a lot of fuel doing so. We used to take them to M0.91 during Full Air Tests, but only in a shallow descent. Can't remember what MNE was...M0.925?

Shared a room with a Jag mate, did you? Hmmm......

nick0021

29th Aug 2006, 08:23

PhoenixDaCat ,

Check your PM's :)

Nick

anotherthing

29th Aug 2006, 09:23

Although not a great fan of the 'Reds' - I used to be in awe of their flying skills and although I would still acknowledge their awesome ability, I think there are fresher, more dynamic displays out there nowadays - the Reds are getting a bit stale. I thought the programme was a good PR for both the Reds and the RAF.

What disappointed me was the last 15 minutes when it descended into a bit of a boys club outing. Yes they have to work together for 3 years and hence get on, but what about 'ordinary' squadron pilots who have to put up with lack of equipment/hours/comfort when risking their lives in theatre?

I appreciate that it was a programme about the Reds, but everything said about cameradrerie and skills etc etc is, in my book, more than surpassed by the Pilots/Observers/Navs and Crewies doing a 'real' tour, as well as the ground grunts.

Felt certain that Kermit was going to get in - his comment about re-applying next year was very honest in my opinion - he is getting married (probably is by now); if he got in on that attempt, it would be something that him and his wife would have to factor in, but it would be a known quantity. Next year, as he would not have that commitment at the time, he might change his priorities because he could.

Many service people put their lives on hold for the job that they are doing at that point in time - they cannot be expected to do so (more so their dependants cannot), for a possible job in the future. What would the interview board rather have - the truth or a lie??

These pilots are first and foremost Officers in the Armed Forces, then pilots, then if lucky and deemed good enough 'Reds'. Maybe the boss of Reds has forgotten that he is first and foremost a servant of the Crown?

Overall a good programme. :ok:

WPH

29th Aug 2006, 10:35

Yes they have to work together for 3 years and hence get on, but what about 'ordinary' squadron pilots who have to put up with lack of equipment/hours/comfort when risking their lives in theatre?

I appreciate that it was a programme about the Reds, but everything said about cameradrerie and skills etc etc is, in my book, more than surpassed by the Pilots/Observers/Navs and Crewies doing a 'real' tour, as well as the ground grunts.

Give 'em a break! All of the Harrier pilot candidates featured have recently done a tour somewhere sandy on Ops as 'ordinary' Sqn pilots (if not in Afg as we type). Yes the prog was about the reds but I don't think it detracts from what our boys and girls are doing at the sharp end. It has been too easy recently to focus on JPA/drawdown/lean/overstretch etc but occasionally it takes a programme like this to remind you that there are still some good bits left - doesn't it?!

OCCWMF

29th Aug 2006, 11:03

It seems to me that, more than any other flying job I've seen so far, they live in each other's pockets for the full 3 years. They rely on the other members' support and morale as well as their abilities every day which is why the personal selection aspect is so important. If you can't rub by with the other chaps then it damages the team. Not an old boys club so much as a survival mechanism. (Perhaps a touch dramatic:p ).

Antique Driver

29th Aug 2006, 12:47

Enjoyed the programme - have been lucky enough in years gone by to do support for the Reds in some pretty exotic locations. They work and play hard and look after their staff.

Nice to see postive PR in the current service bashing climate.

Keep it up boys!!!

anotherthing

29th Aug 2006, 13:29

WPH

It came across to me as if they were intimating that the Reds were special in the way that they had to bond with each other etc, which I disagree with.

OCCWMF

Try flying on a small ships flight.......:ok:

munky

29th Aug 2006, 14:47

Shame that Chris didn't get in, he's a nice chap, met him once. The 2 that did get in did very well in the formation test, better than 7 of the others IIRC but not as good as kermit. So flying skill obviously came into it and it wasn't all about who they like the most.

I wonder if Manners will have a go at the reds at some point, he's the GR4 display pilot this year

FFP

29th Aug 2006, 14:48

Shame that Chris didn't get in, he's a nice chap, met him once

It's a real shame.

setandcontact

29th Aug 2006, 15:23

Yes The Boss is leaving the Reds, hence 2 for selection and no, I doubt you'll see them in the new Hawks for a few years yet. Both the Reds & RAF came out of the documentary very strong - thankfully you can't make reality tv out of the selection process (so no audience voting next year then!)

My 4 year old daughter has already set her sights on joining them - after she's done a spot of wingwalking, beaten Zara Phillips etc etc - watch out!!

s&c

OCCWMF

30th Aug 2006, 11:00

??? You can't fly small ships:}

airborne_artist

30th Aug 2006, 11:17

OCCWMF ??? You can't fly small ships

Oh yes you can:

http://www.hydrofoils.org/HGal/antares.jpg

OCCWMF

30th Aug 2006, 11:21

Curses! (hydro)foiled again!:} :D

doubledolphins

30th Aug 2006, 12:06

I have to say it looks like CG is correct. The conclusion to be drawn from the evidence presented is that that they just voted fot their mates. Selecting your mates is all very well but look at the England football team.

As to the bit about the VC10, typical bit of RAF spin. It is not an airliner any more. its an ex-airliner and whilst it may be the fastest flying ex-airliner it's not the..........(Yawn.)

Strictly Jungly

30th Aug 2006, 15:00

Curses! (hydro)foiled again!:} :D

Excellent!

Dunhovrin

30th Aug 2006, 19:45

"Curses! (hydro)foiled again"

Once again again I'm outbantered.

Was the W/C (CFI?) giving the bad news to Jim Woodward at Valley GK? Nice to see he's as fat as he was on MASUAS in 1981.

GasFitter

2nd Sep 2006, 01:35

http://img.search.com/5/5c/300px-Blackadder_4.jpg
"I don't care how many times they go up-diddly-up-up ...... "

:)

Flt Lt Spry

2nd Sep 2006, 16:20

I wonder if Manners will have a go at the reds at some point, he's the GR4 display pilot this year

He's way too short and bald for the Reds. And he's got to stop trashing GR4s first...

Megaton

2nd Sep 2006, 16:21

Short and bald? Ideally suited, I would have thought!

MK60

21st Nov 2007, 11:58

DOES ANYONE have the episode recorded on their hard drive so that we can all enjoy, i currently only have it on tape and would be very grateful if i could have it on my computer. anyone?? thanks!

MK60

21st Nov 2007, 12:01

hey,do you think u could give me a copy as well?? thanks!

rickastley

21st Nov 2007, 13:26

It's shown every now and the on BBCHD. Schedule below - keep an eye on it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/whatson/search/daylist.cgi?service_id=2075&day=Today

You can record the HD version if you have a satellite tuner card, e.g Skystar 2, installed in your PC.

MK60

29th Nov 2007, 20:53

Thanks! But i was wondering if anyone had it on there PC??? I have it on tape at home but im at uni and craving a watch! Cheers.

Wensleydale

30th Nov 2007, 07:08

I think that its time for the selection process to change with the times...

What we need is to involve the public with the Armed Forces to a greater extent, so why not have the viewers pick the new Reds each year? The 9 contenters could be whittled down each week with the final 3 having a final fly-off live from Cyprus. I am sure that Graham Norton would be ideal to host it! There would have to be a panel of experts to guide us though, so who would you all suggest as the foursome? I will start with the obvious chairman, John Nichols as he so obviously knows everything there is to know about military flying.

I leave the other suggestions to you..... (plus ideas for themes for each programme).

Enjoy! :E

Romeo Oscar Golf

30th Nov 2007, 09:32

Hey, Cheesy, I love it. Big Brother/I'm a celeb, style competition. Throw in a touch of "Strictly Come Dancing"- to check that they're good movers, some of the grooming type progs to check on appearance and you have a winner. Should result in a multi ethnic (ie Army Navy and RAF), multi sexual (includes the Marines) multi talented (ppl navs) politically correct team.:E