You've got to be kidding?

[taxionewire]

Is it true that we have 26 year old C17 captains?

[Zoom]

Why not? If they're good enough that's all that matters.

[taxionewire]

who decides what is good enough?

[ZH875]

Someone with a lot more sense than you obviously have, Taxionewire. :ugh:

[Runaway Gun]

Pretty much old enough to move on to an airline job.... :hmm:

[XL319]

Well Guy Gibson was 24-26 when he led the dambusters raid, so WHY NOT???????????????

[LFFC]

Is it true that we have 26 year old C17 captains?
I know that's a bit old, but initial training takes a few years these days. I also understand that, in the AT world, they generally have to spend a tour as co-pilot before getting captaincy too!

Maybe when MFTS gets going they may be able to cut down on time-in-training and pilots will be able to become operational slightly sooner. Whatever the case, we do have Tornado captains who are much younger than 26!

[Two's in]

Bit of a fetish on this site recently for equating age and experience with proficiency. I have nearly been first to arrive at the smoking hole in the ground courtesy of a 21 year old baby who knew nothing, and a 48 year old grizzled veteran who knew better. Luckily, I was ready for both of them on the day, trust nobody, check everything.

[Lucifer]

Is it true that we have 26 year old C17 captains?
So? Are you green?

[Kengineer-130]

Is it true that we have 26 year old C17 captains?

I very much doubt it- Firstly, there would be no need for 26 C17 Captins, and at a year old I doubt they would be halfway through learning to walk, let alone flying a multi-engined tactical airlifter :} I know some of the co's these days don't look much older and don't speak as well, but at least they can sit in their seats without dribbling :{ , saying that... where does that leave the old navs? :} :E

[taxionewire]

Bit of a fetish on this site recently for equating age and experience with proficiency. I have nearly been first to arrive at the smoking hole in the ground courtesy of a 21 year old baby who knew nothing, and a 48 year old grizzled veteran who knew better. Luckily, I was ready for both of them on the day, trust nobody, check everything.

The question was posed without any ageist connotation, merely that 26 seems extremely young, Guy Gisbon aside, to be responsible for a very expensive, and in extremely high demand piece of hardware, with surely limited experience. And with that in mind does it send the correct message to our customers (anybody but the RAF), that we make such young individuals responsible for such a significant assest without being fully trained to deal with all eventualities. Does the glorified IRT at Cranwell truely prepare the Gp2 aircrew for the increasingly more operationally focused tasking that they are receiving now, specifically in the heavy lift arena?

[evilroy]

where does that leave the old navs?

Old NAVs never die.... they just start a new plot.

[ReturnOfX]

So would it be OK to take a single-seat jet to war? Admittedly not as expensive as a C17, but could you trust a 26 year old, or even a 23 year old with the resposnibility of following ROE and employing weapons. Not to mention less educated, younger soldiers under a good deal more stress making life and death decisions all over the globe right now.

Taxionewire, have a cup of cocoa and get over yourself.

PS. In my experience it would do the AT fleet a world of good to filter in new blood.

[taxionewire]

ReturnOfX you haven't really answered my question, nor has anyone else. Do we have 26 year C17 captains, or was it duff gen I heard, and secondly do you think its a good idea to have such a junior mate in what could be a very challenging position, (resisting the temptation for Gp2 banter), with nothing more than a quick co-pilots tour under his/her belt, have seen it all once before, thus qualifing them for command. It might, (hope it doesn't), happen, but surely its not the most sensible desicion.

[FFP]

taxionewire,

Can I ask with what authority you speak of AT issues and specifically how that has lead you to believe that 26 is too young ?

Leave school at 18, onto a Multi Engine OCU say 21. So 5 years flying (2 tours) then captaincy is not unreasonable.

What age would you rather hear ? 27 ? 37 ?

[goldcup]

So why does a 28 year old with a "quick co-pilot's tour under their belt" make a better C17 captain than one 2 years younger? The guys on 99 Sqn see a lot in a short time (albeit a lot of crappy deserty places...)

On one of the other sqns at Brize, we have co-pilots ranging from v early 20s to mid 40s, an age has nothing to do with suitability for command.

Current OC Lyneham was, I believe, a Fg Off VIP VC10 captain when he was considerably younger than 26, and that was in the days when HRH and the PM used the 10 Sqn jets on a regular basis.

So I don't really understand the gist of your question.

(By the way, I think the answer is yes, if not actually 26 then not far off)

[Khayes]

Not sure about C17 pilots and their ages but I do know a 27 year old Herc pilot.

[Heywood Djablowme]

I know a handful of 26 year old Herc captains. They are actually quite good.

[glum]

Is he a journo fishing for a story?

[bitsleftover]

Actually he is a bit younger than that though extremely competent I can assure you. Everyone on 99 was delighted when he got it.

[heights good]

I have been on an operational det. doing some "tasty" flying with a 23yo Captain. All the flying was safe, to a very high standard and operationally effective. Being an aircraft captain is not just about flying skills, captaincy is all about operating an aircraft. This entails many things such as CRM, knowledge of procedures, quick thinking, problem solving, safety, effective intelligence, emergency handling, flexibility and of course handling skills. Just because a pilot is 45yo doesnt mean he is the model captain, in fact it can be quite the opposite sometimes.

Anyway, rant complete :)

Heights good

[Father Jack Hackett]

"......with nothing more than a quick co-pilots tour under his/her belt......"

These days 1 co's tour on any AT fleet probably equates to 2 or 3 tours a few years ago, when they weren't doing month-on, month-off in highly demanding and sometimes downright dangerous operational theatres.

A co-pilots tour is an apprenticeship for captaincy. If the guys are ready then there's no point holding them back.

[taxionewire]

Goldcup,

thanks for your response, and to the other participants in this thread, no I'm not a journo looking for a story, far from it, just genuinely surprised at the age AT crews get captaincy. I'm definately not ageist, and am not talking with any authority on AT experience levels, clearly. I would also tend to agree that in my experience, the younger aircrew when given a significant amount of responsibilty always rise to the challenge, but then thats down to supervision. Maybe its more a reflection of my own maturity at the age in question (26).

Currently trying to figure out an exit strategy to this thread without missing my point(opinion), that command seems to come very early in the AT fleet, considering the diversity of missions they execute.

[CarltonBrowne the FO]

taxionewire, I think you have answered your own question! It is probably the diversity of missions they execute which gives them the experience to command at such a young age.
Just for the record, I am jealous. I was 38 when I got my command...

[Shadwell the old]

I was a captain the first time around at 37 and again at 51 - and I'm not even a pilot!

The kipper fleet keep the double wing master race in their place, by only making them captains if they deserve it (rarely).

The AEO (ie me) is clearly the obvious choice for captaincy - good looks, charm and an understanding of what is going on at the real heart of the aircraft. If there is no obvious candidate from the Sqn AEOs, they choose one of the navs. If that draws a blank, they give the job to the airframe driver.

Moving my tongue out of my cheek.

Did I need a wee

[REF]

I used to work at an airline who had a 22 year old captain on the Avro RJ100.

What about during the war, alot of the crews were 18 to 24?

If you are good enough, have the hours and show that you have the qualities then who cares how old they are.

[Yellow Sun]

The first Vulcan crew I joined only had one member over 25, the AEO was decrepit old F:mad: t of 28.

BTW Shadwell, there are two types of AEO, good ones and I'd rather have the fuel. Top it up please...

YS

[LFFC]

taxionewire

Looking at your location, maybe what's worrying you is that AT pilots may now be challenging FJ pilots in the promotion game? In the recent past, AT pilots were generally promoted several years behind their FJ and RW colleagues because their time as AT co-pilot didn't really count for much - thus reducing AT mates' chances of reaching the highest ranks of the RAF.

Maybe that situation is now changing.

[Shadwell the old]

Yellow sun

When I joined 50 Sqn (bonking dingos), I was 27 and the crew had 2 people older than me! Not many Vulcan crews had ANYONE older than the AEO.

WRT the fuel, do you want pounds, kgs or gallons

[Yellow Sun]

Hi Shadwell,

When I joined 50 Sqn (bonking dingos),

Don't you mean "Curtains and a Sword"? I was on the mob next door that had a "Ginger Tom Emerging From a Dustbin".

I've been using kgs for the last 20 years!

Rgds
YS

[Roguedent]

One of the other secret 3 point tanker squadrons has had a 26yr old captain for some time now.:D Of course we have the Eng with a fire axe ready to strike if he does any thing wrong, and the nav to wipe his brow when the co is flying! :eek: Back to the point of the thread, if the bloke in question has the requisite experience, mostly comprising of Afghan and the sand box at the moment, then he is ready for command, no matter what his age. Sounds like you ARE ageist. I guess you would like to see a old, wise looking chap with a pipe and tattered hat, instead of a young chap??:ugh: :ugh:

All spelling mistakes are hangover induced!:yuk:

[josephfeatherweight]

I'm sorry, I think a few people are giving the old taxionewire too much leeway for a poorly thought out post - TITLED "You've got to be kidding?". I especially like the way he's realised the foolishness of his original post and is now backtracking:

thanks for your response, and to the other participants in this thread, no I'm not a journo looking for a story, far from it, just genuinely surprised at the age AT crews get captaincy. I'm definately not ageist, and am not talking with any authority on AT experience levels, clearly. I would also tend to agree that in my experience, the younger aircrew when given a significant amount of responsibilty always rise to the challenge, but then thats down to supervision. Maybe its more a reflection of my own maturity at the age in question (26).

Admit the stupidity of your post or get your hand off it...

[sonicstomp]

Age is largely irrelevant....

Relevant experience, maturity and of course ability are what counts....And plenty of our twenty-something aircrew have this in abundance, particularly in the recent RAF..

We have a (albeit small) number of under-30 yr old captains on the AWACS, and despite the large crew and high price tag (£250million a piece) age did not come into the boarding process at all...

Nice backtracking though - call when clear of the active! :E

[Tanewha]

The RAF is getting younger, or at least it would seem. Certainly in the SAR crewroom the average age has dropped, even over the last 5 years. In this environment experience is valuable but a rookie crew will still get the job done safely; it may take them a little longer but who cares if lives are saved. I was a Fg Off Op Capt at 26 and this is normal especially umongst non-graduates (perhaps a little older for those who spent 3 years sponging off the government). Age doesn't matter!!

[difar69]

I agree with those who think we've given too much leeway to the original poster's poorly thought through thread. Age is irrelevant, and I cannot see what his original point actually was. Maybe that's because I am a sub 30 Nimrod Captain and I am not wise enough to understand his complicated argument. I have met as many crap old & bold skippers on all fleets as I have young ones. That's the RAF's strength, we are by and large, a force based on merit and ability. Long may it continue.:D

[Saintsman]

Admittedly I wasn't a pilot but I arrived on my first squadron on my 17th birthday. Not long after that I was doing AF & BF's all on my own (Phantoms it was) and responsible for the aircraft and the lives of the crew. The point is that in the forces, 'If you're good enough, you're old enough'

[scroggs]

I was given captaincy on the C130 at 27. At the time, several people had commands at a younger age; the youngest I'm aware of was 21. I recently gained a command in my second career at 50. Looking back, I think I was rather better then than I am now...!

Scroggs