BALPA Employment Conference 2nd Sept

[Bobs-Your-Uncle]

Hello,

Anybody know if this thing BALPA have organised is any good?

Are the airlines actually going to be interested in talking to low-hour folks or is it just for good PR for the airlines and making BALPA look important and in control?

£55 to get in and at the hell hole called Heathrow seems like a stupid idea. Perhaps if they organised it elsewhere it would be somewhat cheaper.

Cheers, Bob

[Captain Douglas]

Hi there went to the EOC conference in 2004. Approached a main charter airline in the afternoon in the open forum as well as many other airline stands that day. Was called for interview a couple of weeks later, sim assessment a couple of weeks after that and started a jet course at the beginning of january 2005.

I have to say after the day i thought it was waste of money, as none of the airlines were saying anything that positive. Plus an expensive evening in the centre of London followed!

In retrospect i dont know whether my current employer remembered me from the day and thats why i was called, but showing my face and having a chat certainly didnt seem to do me any harm.

I would say go for it, what do you have to lose! Good luck you can always head into London afgter and have a few beers, I did!!

[Captain Douglas]

Sorry forgot to say!

i wasnt low houred, I had 200 hours with 500 on turboprops! about 80% of the people attended were low houred. Either graduated or undergoing training.

[Bobs-Your-Uncle]

were you a low hours 300-ish fresh from CPL/IR/MCC ??

may i ask which company it was??

cheer/Bob

[wingbar]

Tell BALPA they can stick it up their arse, I'm not paying to attend that pile of crap, been 3 years in a row, all ready a paid up member, shame on anybody who PAYS to attend a conference that is for PAYING unemployed members......!!!!

If BALPA wanted to help us guys, they would put that on for nothing, its one day, and they charge for it....shame on them....

BOYCOTT thats what I say.

WB

[dartagnan]

that's right, 55 pounds is scandalous.
I have already given up my membership with Balpa.
Airlines do not like Unions. Better to stay away from them...Balpa is for BA captains or rich kids having a dad at BA.
If an airline discovers you are part of an union , your CV go straight to the bin...

[Bobs-Your-Uncle]

cheers dudes.

gonna bin the BALPA membership application and ticket application tonight.

£80 towards my IR renewal at least :ugh:

[Bobs-Your-Uncle]

is the IPA any better ??

[Craggenmore]

The Balpa Conference can work. If I were you, I'd go straight to the GB stand.........................;)

Anyhow, its has to better than spending your time typing away on this web-site for just one afternoon out of 365 considering you get the chance to stand in front of The Bosses? How often does that happen?

[scroggs]

that's right, 55 pounds is scandalous.
I have already given up my membership with Balpa.
Airlines do not like Unions. Better to stay away from them...Balpa is for BA captains or rich kids having a dad at BA.
If an airline discovers you are part of an union , your CV go straight to the bin...

What a load of tripe!

Guys, you can complain about BALPA all you like - and I agree their charges for the Employment Seminar are excessive - but BALPA is not really for Wannabes. It is essentially for people already in the industry, and its primary task is protecting and improving their terms of employment - which it does very well. While it makes a few noises about helping Wannabes, there is no real effort in that direction, and its job-advice provision is really directed at people who already have some experience. That said, BALPA is trying to improve its offerings for people at your end of the industry.

However, I am not a BA Captain, nor am I a rich kid who has a Dad at BA. My airline (and most others in UK) is not at all anti-Union, and nearly all of us were in BALPA before we joined. Do not listen to dartagnan. On this, as on so much else, he is talking out of his rear end.

Scroggs

[wingbar]

Suggestion if I may Scroggs,

Why did Balpa last year, and the previous 3 years see an increasing demand in low hour people attending the conference?

They said at last years conference that there were practically no one 'in the industry' (with a decent job) in attendence!

The quick show of hands demonstrated at the time, that theory quite nicely....

Lets be honest here, the people already in the industry, (I don't consider myself one being just a lowly FI...) aren't really going to need the likes of some crummy conference at LHR are they?

They have the contacts, the hours, and the lateral manouverability within the industry, to get better jobs, because they already have the time and that all important foot on the ladder...

I fear, as most things in the aviation world for new people to experience, that , BALPA's EOC is little more than a cash fund top up...

WB

[scroggs]

I don't speak for BALPA; I am just a member. As far as I know, BALPA charges so much because (I believe) it is required by its own rules to recover the costs incurred by the event. Ring up the hotel and see what the hire of the facilities costs - don't forget the IT provision, or lunch. All the attendees from the airlines will be paid a contribution towards their expenses as well. On top of that is the secretarial and organisational time put in before the event, as well as on the day. None of this is cheap. Making money is not the aim - if BALPA wanted to do that, it could do so much more easily!

As a full member, I pay BALPA around £800 a year for my membership. £55 is one of their less expensive offerings!

Scroggs

[dartagnan]

I got a job by a low costs airline on jet...during the interview, a young pilot asked if they like Unions(never ask this kind of question), the captain recruiter was really pissed off:"we dont want see that, here union have no place, do you know what happened to other airlines,bla bla bla"

join an union, and your CV is good for the bin...
you can still join Balpa after being hired!;)

[EGBKFLYER]

That a CV might be binned because of someone's union affiliation seems a little far-fetched - unless you state your membership on your CV, how would they know? That said, if you do put it down, you deserve to be binned for stupidity in general :}

It is worth remembering however, that UK employment law protects your right to belong to a union and not suffer because of that choice... Better in than out these days I reckon (and that's speaking as a member of 'management', allbeit not in aviation at the mo).

[mumbo]

I attended in 2004 & 2005 and was glad I did. It gave me, as a shiny new modular CPL/IR, an idea of the competition and what the employers were looking for:- i.e. Integrated bods.:ugh:
In 2005 it was interesting to note the people lurking in the back ground. John Bell (BMI Regional) & Nick Hayter (Jet2) to name a couple. It was as if they were checking up on what their competition was doing about recruitment. I also got to speak to both men quietly and it gave me a boost when one man said he had seen a few of my CVs on his desk. :eek:
That said it made me very much aware that I had to do something to drag my sorry ass up from the masses of other new CPL/IRs. A FI rating followed by 8 months part time instructing, (Holding down two other jobs to pay the mortgage):{ and I got an invitation for an interview with a company out of the blue. (Was neither BMI regional or Jet2, their loss). I am looking at starting sometime next year with the company.:ok: Was it due to a great CV? Probably not. Was it just luck? More than likely.
Back to the subject. The conference gave me the spur I needed to keep progressing in the industry that has finally lead to a position on a flight deck in the near future. If I was not working on the day as an instructor, I would be going again just to get the feel of the industry in 2006.
One last note, the food in 2004 was better than 2005. :(

All the best Mumbo

P.S Only my humble opinion

[Craggenmore]

mumbo

I am looking at starting sometime next year with the company. Get their promise in writing and signed by both parties. One sniff of trouble and the hold pool is gone. I spent a year in a one which never came off. Im flying now but it basically wasted a year of my life after flight school.

Cheers

[Jinkster]

Tried to get a ticket earlier today (1st Sept) - I know it's passed the date but tried anyhow!

Not a chance!!!

[dartagnan]

anyway, it s illegal to charge so much just to attend a conference.
when I will get a job, Balpa ,don't count on me.
I have been with you when unemployed , you didn't help me, so why should I pay you a % of my salary???better to keep my money for an aviation attorney.

[Jinkster]

Anyone back from the conference willing to give a run down!

[dartagnan]

my feedback: I have saved 300-500 euro by not going.:}

[no sponsor]

It was useful, to an extent. I think most airlines there were after more experienced guys, except BMI Baby and Jet2.com.

I met quite a few recruiters from the airlines, and had a good chat with a BA captain, as well as mingling with many others. The RAF put in a big presence with 70 guys & gals looking to get into civvy street.

Flybe moved beyond the reach of many when Cheese declared that you must have 750 hrs TT if you graduated more than 12 months ago. Their new on-line application will open 1st Oct. I think they'll struggle, as Easy Jet and others made it pretty clear that there are easier routes into their airlines.

All the others mentioned OATS numerous times for their choice of low houred pilots. When I spoke to the various representatives, they tended to confirm that they went to CTC or OATS to get their low houred guys.

Virgin Atlantic declared they had recently visited OATS with a view to starting a cadet scheme for cruise pilots.

Balpa provided a useful pack with contact details for airlines now recruiting.

Unless I had significantly more experience, I wouldn't go back for next year, but all in all it was an OK experience.

[EGCC4284]

Flybe moved beyond the reach of many when Cheese declared that you must have 750 hrs TT if you graduated more than 12 months ago.

Not sure that is correct. I thought it was 50 hours flying in the last rolling 12 months.






and something about a caravan.

[no sponsor]

It is correct. I went and spoke to Ian Cheese afterwards, and he confirmed 750TT - plus the 50 hrs in the previous 12 months. He was very particular regarding currency. He also indicated that the new application form will trigger your application to HR once you have reached that figure, not before. He did say the new application form would be available for people to constantly update their data/hours etc.

[Dan 98]

I attended yesterday, and my understanding was that if you have finished a one stop Integrated / Mod course ie. All training at the same school and have flown >50hrs in the last 12months you can apply withOUT 750TT.
The 750hrsTT is for people who have NOT completed an Int/Mod course in the last 12months and not flown >50 hrs in the last 12 months. I also spoke with Ian Cheese who seemed to confirm this as he looked at my CV and the first thing he looked at was where i did my training (BFC Modular) which he said great all in one place, you have done >50hrs in the last 12 months, we would like to hear from you, no mention of 750TT, I have 230hrs.
Like i say this was my understanding, but as my wife always says I could wrong!!!
However with their current requirement I think the 750TT would cause them problems. Time will tell I guess.
Cheers

Dan

[wingbar]

The other guy they had was brilliant, he hates modular students, and it's his idea with the 750 hours crap...lets see how long he can sustain that for.....

[Re-Heat]

anyway, it s illegal to charge so much just to attend a conference.
Gee, what tripe. Do you know what the price of the conferences I have to attend can be? Take a look at Terrapin's website for instance.

It is a cheap conference for what it offers in terms of networking, and up to date gen on recruitment.

[Canada Goose]

Its a shame there wasn't more notice on this conference. I would have liked to have attended this conference..... and I agree, compared to engineering confs I've attended in my time, not that expensive, however, that said, I've been to recruitment fairs (which to some extent, this is what this was) and they were always free, the tab picked up by the prospective employers (but like everything in professional aviation nowadays it seems the individual is expected to pick up the tab on more and more.......but thats another debate!).
Anyway, my point is a fwe weeks ago I did a search on google looking for information on this years coming BALPA EOC and could only find a link for last years ............. which I was unable to attend due to no tickets available. That was held in mid October and I was expecting this years to be at the same time of year. By the time I found out about this years it was again too late and I was left ....... quite literally .. holding the baby ;-) :-( ..bless her !
CG.

[dartagnan]

these meetings make me sick. just by looking at all these desperated wanabees running around a chief operator or a recruiter, trying to get his attention makes me realize how low we went...
in french we call that "lecheur de culs" and I am sure some of these wanabees are even asking if they can work for free or ready to pay to work.

I dont have their 50 hours, and I don't care...I have applied online where minimum requirement are "smarter" and I got a job.All the jobs I got in the past was by sending my cv or calling the company and asking if they had an opening.

Fly 2-3 hours before the interview is certainly wellseen, but 50 hours, ahahah!and what about those pilots who are short of money and have not find any employment within 6 months after their CPL?

:ok: to all of you!

[scroggs]

Its a shame there wasn't more notice on this conference....Anyway, my point is a fwe weeks ago I did a search on google looking for information on this years coming BALPA EOC and could only find a link for last years.
CG.

Why didn't you ask BALPA? The date was announced in 2005.

Scroggs

[Canada Goose]

Way too obvious and straight forward ! Good point though !! May have been a blessing though that I hadn't coughed up for both 2005 and 2006. Last year I was full of a really nasty cold and there was no way I could have attended in that state. This year just a regular head cold - enough to keep me on the ground ! Don't really get colds very often but by some weird coincidence I had them on the BLAPA EOC weekend. When's next years so I can boost my immune system in advance ;-)

Anyone else got any feedback their wouldn't mind sharing with us all !

Cheers,
CG.

[EGBKFLYER]

I went to 2006 and 2005 EOCs.

Definitely a different tone this year - the now-traditional show of hands to determine the experience profile of the audience revealed markedly fewer low-timers (my estimate around 10% this year compared with 75%+ last year). Numbers were also well down - last year was oversubscribed (400+) and attendance this year was around 240 according to the organisers. There were a number of military pilots and more in the 1500+TT band this year too.

Airline presentations were similar to last year (even the Taiwan/ China jokes from China Airlines:) ) but more cautious – with the exception of Easyjet, no one was banding large recruitment figures about though all presenters were up-beat in general. With the odd exception (some 13000 hour American with a chip on his shoulder:confused: ), questions were few and to the point. Several airlines (e.g. EZY, MYT, TC, FC) seem now to have two distinct targets – low time integrated from Oxford or Jerez or CTC (poor old Cabair!) or 1500TT+ turbo or twin FOs:oh: . For those of us somewhere in the middle options are more limited, though the difference between what they want and what they get means I’m not overly worried right now!

A last minute change meant that the usual (and in my view slightly patronising) ‘chin-up’ speech from some newly-trained FO didn’t happen, with Capt Nathan Burkitt from Thomsonfly giving the pep talk instead. I thought he did well given the short notice, though a lot of it was obvious advice.

The afternoon informal session had less of a bun-fight atmosphere, due to the lower numbers attending and the fact that nearly all the companies stated clearly they would not be taking CVs (on-line is the future folks!). BMI Baby was swamped, as was Jet2 for the reasons already mentioned. Cathay was deserted (not surprising given the average experience in the room) but did give away natty little 747 fridge magnets.:ok:

Overall? As a job fair, not much use really but then I don’t think that’s the intention. As a networking opportunity (with fellow Wannabes as well as airline bods) and a chance to put faces to names etc, well worth it in my view and I think £55 is fair, for the record.

Roll on the PPRuNe seminar now…

[dartagnan]

and I think £55 is fair, for the record.

Roll on the PPRuNe seminar now…

BALPA:Thank you for your £55 and we hope too see you next year.

I guess most of us are screwed,we are not integrated ,300-500h tt and no turboprop experience. This is what we have in Europe, so I really think ailines are talking Bullock!
I did good no to attend.

[FunFlyin]

Dartagnan
I really cant work you out.

In one breath you are going on about how crap all of this is and how you have saved money by not going as you dont have the hour requirements necessary.

And in a different post you are going on about how you got a job despite not having this and that and not paying for all of this.

To be honest you either dont fly or you have a real chip on your shoulder. If you are an experienced pilot (Getting paid to fly commercially), its polite to come on here and try and help people.....

.....not just post tripe

[dartagnan]

sorry FunFlyin, what I was meaning:this market is filled with many unemployed pilots who have around 300-500h and now they must listen at the crap of recruiters telling them they need 1500h, or no hours at all (Integrated school)...what kind of joke is that?

For my part. I have little more than 300h(I am a "modular"), but no jet or real turbine experience and I got an offer on eavy jet. the secret: keep your money as a carotte !

so guys, take it easy, send as many CV you can , and keep current. they will need you soon!:ok:

[EGCC4284]

EGBKFLYER.

Have you bought that caravan yet.

The whole event was brilliant for me as I met 4 Pilot managers who I have been e-mailing for the last 2 years but had never had the chance to meet until Saturday. They all remembered me very well from my e-mails and letters and I had a very good chat with each of them.

Its all about networking and getting yourself known.

The man from BMI Baby ( wont mention his name again ) knew exactly who I was even though it has been 6 months since I last e-mailed him. Now that he has met me in the flesh, I feel my future e-mails and letters may be kept higher up the pile so to speak. I will e-mail him again this week thanking him for his time at the event etc etc etc.

At least me and EGBKFLYER had breakfast with a pilot manager from a large turboprop outfit. And it was him that came and sat with us and not us that went and sat with him.

Networking, networking and networking. That's what its all about in this game.

Got a nice e-mail today for a possible future sim check out of the event anyway.

£55, was it worth it. Most definitely.

[matzpenetration]

BALPA are next to useless for wannabees.The conference is basically an opportunity for flight managers / recruiters / and ex servicemen now in recruitment to have a bit of a catch up and a bite to eat at our expense.

The IPA is a far better bet for low houred / newly qualified pilots. I have always found them very helpful when it comes to preparing CV's and providing info on selection procedures. I have maintained my membership of the IPA despite being in BALPA as I feel they would offer more assistance if I ever found myself out of work.

Good luck to all those looking for that first break. Don't allow yourselves to be limited by the handful of companies that CTC and OATS tell you to apply to. Use the IPA to find out about the hidden world of air taxi / air photography / cargo / survey work / instructing / corporate flying / MAF / Glider towing / Para dropping etc... The experience is invaluable and you can be logging hours whilst your mate from the same course wallows in self pity and disbelief wondering why BA / Virgin / BMI / GB.....haven't had the courtesy to invite him to an interview despite that fact he passed all his exams first time etc...!

[George Foreman]

With the BALPA EOC you have to recognise that, as a wannabe, the event is not designed especially for you. However, since you are welcome to attend, it is a real opportunity to make an impression in a world where such opportunities are more than a little scarce. Just being there, shaking hands and spending 2 mins with a range of people who will in all probability shape your future career was, to my mind, the only thing worth joining BALPA for at that stage.

I went as a wannabe in '04 the day after I finished my training and again in '05. In '04 it was a sobering reality check...I think the only thing I might have qualified for was CABAIR's single engine instructor scheme! [Actually looking back I did get what I thought was a foot in the door with one regional operator based in the south west, but (god rest his soul) the gentleman concerned passed away shortly afterwards, seemingly along with my hopes of a Q400 type rating!]

By '05 I was an Instructor, I felt a bit more confident because I could demonstrate that I had been doing all the right things, my ratings and medical were freshly renewed and my aviation CV had progressed. Some recruiters remembered my face, and were willing to offer me an update on the world as they saw it. Professional yet short and snappy encounters is what they seem to like..not that I go in for it, but this is basically "Aviation Speed Dating" ! :-) Others came up and said hello, one even bought me a beer! Give them a good reason and many will take your CV..even those who say otherwise! I absorbed a lot of sound advice, took a reality check on what the TRTOs were telling me, and got a better feeling for the 'market', though my expectations weren't high.

To my delight I did get a few "you're on file, we might call you in the future" letters and an interview with a UK based 737 operator which led to an immediate assessment and then ... the holding-pool. This was fantastic, but for the fact that it all happened during the first 2 weeks of my self-sponsored A320 course at GECAT ! :ugh: Timing (and hindsight) is everything of course but I'd gone past the point of no return...fate has been good to me and, thankfully, I am now flying 320/1s out of LHR.

I know it is easy to become disillusioned, but my advice would be not to underestimate the opportunity this conference presents...at least one of my subsequent job offers (they really are like London buses) came as a result of a face-to-face encounter at the BALPA EOC ... and there are others out there who will at least get to meet you and put a name to a face. At some stage in the future, that might make a difference.

Happy Landings and Be Lucky !

George.

[EGBKFLYER]

Matzpenetration - thanks for your heads-up on IPA. However, your assessment of EOC is rubbish. The recruiters and managers I saw on Saturday were either giving presentations or spent the whole afternoon talking to the queue of people at their stand. If they caught up on some gossip over a soggy spring roll at lunchtime, I have no problem with that... That said, I generally agree with you the BALPA isn't too great at helping wannabes - but they're a union not a recruitment agency (AFAIK Unison, MSF or any other union I come into contact with doesn't help their wannabes any more than BALPA does).

[groan]

With the odd exception (some 13000 hour American with a chip on his shoulder:confused:

I could see the Airline reps roll their eyes and murmer to each other during his rant!!!!

[EGBKFLYER]

Same man was in front of me at the CTC stand and had a go at Lee Woodward for not doing anything for him! Lee (very politely I thought) pointed out that with 13k hours, perhaps he should go and talk to some of the others in the room (Cathay, Emirates etc etc) but he wasn't having any of it. Nutter.

EGCC - still looking for the caravan and a nice site at the end of the runway at Soton...

[EGCC4284]

I also found out on Saturday ( or should I say the very very nice lady from easyJet found out on my behalf ) that CTCs age restriction is going out the window very,very soon.

Last picture of the easyJet slides, I thought was a 737 and not an Airbus. Was this a test to see if anyone would challenge a easyJet training captain???? whilst on stage. Might be their new recruitment process. Did anyone else spot this.

Spoke to them about their requirement changes and it went as follows.

Me "Hello, I am 39 with 440 hours"

easyJet "Come to us with a type rating and 50 hours on type and we might look at you"

Me "Thanks, bye"

Not only are they encouraging guys to buy their own type ratings but they are now also asking that you try and get 50 hours on type.

They also said that they are having no problems what so ever getting guys into their company and that their requirements are ok.???????

450 pilots next year they need. Thats a lot and I would be interested to know where they think they are going to come from.

[Canada Goose]

Mmmmmm. That is interesting …… to to add my two penneth, I heard from a friend of a friend a few months ago that Ezy had about 40 peeps lined up for interview. When the big day arrived only about 5 showed up !

[matzpenetration]

EGBKFlyer,

I can only comment on what I saw after attending for a couple of years. Although there were crowds of people around each stand if one airline rep spotted one of his old buddies, then it would be handshakes all round and a decent chat whilst ignoring the people who'd paid to attend.

I'm tempted to say that your blanket assessment of unions is rubbish but I will refrain from being so impolite on a medium such as this. You are right that BALPA is a union and helping wannabees is not one of its core aims. My point is that low houred pilots shouldn't fund any event run by such an organisation if it only pays lip service to the supposed aim of the event. This would ensure BALPA sticks to what it knows best. The IPA are an excellent tool for helping you get a foot on the ladder. They helped me re-format my CV and prepare a decent application letter that led to securing my first job with Flybe, along with access to a cheap simulator prior to the simulator assessment. I find their monthly market analysis very accurate. When I started applying for jet jobs I ended up with firm job offers from Monarch and Britannia (largely I feel, thanks to their selection notes and the fact they put me in touch with line pilots from these companies). I subsequently turned these down and took a position on the 320 with BA, for which the best source of info is actually this forum.

I wish I could say I was just lucky or very employable. Probably not the latter! However, I do feel they played a part in me getting to where I am now. That is why I will retain my membership and am more than willing to help IPA members in any way I can, as it's important to give something back to those trying to break into this difficult minefield we call aviation.

Never give up, it is worth the pain and the heartache.:=