FlyBE Sponsorship 2007

[JediDude]

Sorry if there is already a thread for this but I couldn't find one.

Just wondering if anyone else is applying for this and if anybody has any more details than those on the Cabair site. How is the financial side of it working this year? £40k to be paid by the cadet?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Chris

[ccatfanclub]

WHAT?

40 Grand. Are they taking the pi$$? :confused: How is that a sponsorship? 8k was reasonable but 40 is just silly. Hey Sharlaton, is that linked to the rate of inflation?

Give it a wide birth JediDude.

Cheeky, very cheeky Mr A##tin!!!

[Rapha_BA]

Nah,I've received the documents to apply for this scheme and....you wont pay for the £40 k....end of the day,you'll be paying the whole £60k plus..!what it says in the aplication form is that after completion of the training ,we'll walk into the job if there are vacancies at the time,if not we'll have to wait,so we're not allowed to fly for other airlines....(imagine if theres a 2 year waiting,plus a £40k loan to repay?)if there is places available,we have to repay the £23k that the airline pay to the FTO during 5 years of employment,in 60 equal deductions from the salary!the salary is not attractive either,but hey..you wanna fly right?I didn't decide yet,simply because if I manage to get a loan of £40k,I rather apply for £20k more and just do the integrated course without any strings attached,so I can keep the options open for other airlines aswell...this scheme sound too high risk for me,what do you think guys?

[JediDude]

Nah, thats not right. You don't repay the £23k, what you are paying for in the first 5 years is the type rating. The way I see it the airline are actually forking out £23k which is more than can be said for the likes of CTC. I know its not the best deal in the world but I'm going for it anyways, at the end of the day it's virtually a guaranteed job, and its with an airline and aircraft that would be at the top of my list anyways.

[Rapha_BA]

lol,perhaps you should read it properly,I'm not creating anything,and thats what it says in their sponsorship prospectus is :
*(second paragraph of page 3,Finance and Contract)flybe will sponsor the selected candidate by way of payment of £19.800 plus VAT(The £23K that i mentioned earlier)towards the cost of the JAA ATP integrated course at CCAT,as detailed on the last page of the prospectus.The balance of the course fees WILL BE MET BY THE CANDIDATE and must be REPAID in full to CCAT by friday 29 December 2006(£40K).the flybe contribution WILL BE REPAID BY THE SELECTED CANDIDATE OVER THE FIRST 5 YEARS of airline employment in the form of 60 equal montly deductions from salary.
*third paragraph- flybe will also cover all costs associated with the initial type rating training required to endorse tha DASH 8 Q400....
The training is currently valued at £13,500 and the selected candidate WILL ALSO BE BONDED for this amount,for the first 5 years of employment.
*(fourth paragraph) In the event that flybe does not offer employment immediately on completion of the course at CCAT but that the airline intends to make that offer,the selected candidate will be required to accept that offer for a period of up to TWO YEARS following graduation.
*Once employed by Flybe the selected candidate will de paid the appropriate salary from which will be deducted £e,960 per annum for five years,to repay the sponsored amount.Provided that the full five year employment term is completed the Dash 8 Q400 type rating is provided AT NO COST to the selected candidate.


OK. So this text was taken from their prospectus,and it supports everything what i said early:
*1 Flybe will pay £23k towards your training,but you'll pay back in 5 years
*2 Flybe will pay £13K for your type rating,but remender this is bonded(thats cancel's what you've said)
*3 Flybe may not have vacancies after your graduate,but they can put you in a holdpool,up to two years,and you and your guarantor signed a contract remenber,which you have to abide with the terms,so perhaps,you'll be back to Mcdonalds kitchen for the next two years otherwise you'll starve.....

Sorry mate,thats the facts, and Good luck with that!:ok:

[potkettleblack]

Doesn't seem that attractive to me as an outsider looking in.

If you want to spend all that money it makes places like Oxford and Jerez seem a steal since at least you aren't limiting your job chances at the completion of your training. As someone else has said you are contractually obligated to wait for Flybe to offer you something (as an aside it would be interesting to see if this is legally enforceable!) while all your mates could be on the line flying for other airlines in that time.

[Groundloop]

we'll walk into the job if there are vacancies at the time,if not we'll have to wait,so we're not allowed to fly for other airlines
*(fourth paragraph) In the event that flybe does not offer employment immediately on completion of the course at CCAT but that the airline intends to make that offer,the selected candidate will be required to accept that offer for a period of up to TWO YEARS following graduation.
You seem to have contradicted yourself. In your second quote it does not say anything about not flying for anyone else. Just that you have to be available for two year i.e. if Flybe suddenly want you you would have to leave where you already were.

[Rapha_BA]

It's not contradictive,think carefully...you passed your JAA exams with a average of 85% plus,had a great overall performance and then..the airline is unable to offer you a place for the next two years!!you go to other airline but you've signed a contract that means you'll have to pay for the bond,right?£23+£13,500=£36,500...Well,if you got the cash,good for you!!:ugh:
I've spoke to someone at Cabair about the terms of this scheme and thats the way it is,if you dont believe,you are free so you can exercise your freedom of research!On my case,i'll try cabair but not under this scheme,I did my research on what is good for me,and what is good for me is not necessarily good for others!Good luck to you all:ok:

[Artificial Horizon]

As someone who has been through the FlyBe sponsorship I can confirm that you will pay back the £23000 through a reduction in your salary. On top of this you will also have to additionally sign the FlyBe NON REDUCING three year bond. This is in the form of an addtional loan from 'Barclays' which you pay each month and then Flybe will reimburse your paypacket to the equivelant amount. So if you leave you will be liable for both the outstanding balance on your sponsorship agreement and the remainder of your bond. The only advantage to this scheme is that it is a job. No one I know has had to wait more than a few weeks to start with FlyBe, but you will have to stay for the full five years or you will be paying through the nose to get out.

[Rapha_BA]

Thank you!!!:D finaly someone with the reality check

[potkettleblack]

This is a really tough one isn't it? On one hand it is a job at the end of the day but then five years is a long time to be stuck somewhere if your ambitions are to fly heavier metal and move onto jets.

There have been numerous threads in terms and endearment over the years about the inner goings on at Flybe and the high staff turnover. To me this scheme seems like an attempt to buy loyalty from staff by locking you in. I can't see that they are really underwriting any substantial portion of the training costs so surely the legality of the lock in period could be on shaky grounds in anycase but that is an aside.

As we all know the aviation sector moves in cycles and at the moment it has never been a better time for the TP guys and gals to move up to bigger stuff and enjoy the benefits of higher pay hopefully along the way. Being locked in though would preclude you from being able to jump ship should you feel the need so I would tread carefully with this. Perhaps for the younger peeps then this deal is a goer but those older might well find otherwise.

[JediDude]

Sorry for any assumptions I've made about this but I have yet to receive the application pack hence why I was asking for information. I still think I'm going to go with it, my ambitions don't really go beyond that of a regional carrier and I have a particular soft-spot for the Dash 8. :)

[speedrestriction]

we'll walk into the job if there are vacancies at the time

Do the "sponsored" students not join the hold pool?

SR

[CPL_Ace]

Just to recap then - you pay for your training and then you pay for your type rating but are garunteed a job at the end of it with a garunteed salary for a turbo-prop (a nice one though) - if there's space???

I didn't sign any contracts - paid for my training and now looking for jobs in a market where most airlines will pay your TR on a bond and give you a salary. Sure I wasn't garunteed a job at the beginning but in today's climate surely the risk is the same if not less than the one you're taking here??

The TP I used are now placing to Fybe (amongst others)and Flybe give you a 13k bond for 3 years.

[potkettleblack]

Yeah that is pretty much it. Another way of looking at it is you pay for your own training, then go to somewhere like CTC and get a type rating and hey presto a job at the end but the difference is no 5 year bond. And you will invariably be flying a jet with the (usually) higher annual salary.

[wings87]

Just one thing to say:

Please please carry on taking loans and pay these 40K or 60K or whatever...:D :D :D
I am just a very selfish traveller and enjoys my next holidays to France for only £75.00 return, without you it would be impossible, thank you so much again!!:ok:
Cheers!! and happy flying!!

[Wodka]

What a joke! I'd give this "Sponsorship" a wide berth ... they really are taking the piss here. Again they are playing with peoples hopes and dreams :mad:

[speedrestriction]

Wings87, I love it :}

[potkettleblack]

The more you think of it the more it makes that Mytravel scheme where you fly for free and pay for a type rating and can get binned after the summer season is over sound like a great deal. At least you will have quite a few hours in an A320/321:} Whereas 5 years stuck on a Dash 8 praying for a switch to the jungle jets that they keep on dangling and earning under £30k a year for the priviledge might be a bridge to far.

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=hrrr9xhru0hmh7ejs9k7cu7e1t93ng8rvq4sa77vx83y 576n6eg

[JediDude]

5 years stuck on a Dash 8...and earning under £30k a year for the priviledge

Heaven!

Where do I sign?

[potkettleblack]

Heaven!
Where do I sign?

Your bank manager might not think so as the starting salary is £26k and out of that is a fair amount of debt to repay:)

[ATPLTrainee]

when it comes to flying a jobs a job and 26k with flybe on TP's is the same as BA Connect pay its Jet FO's. If you go for the scheme then fairplay to you, FlyBe are expanding as far as i'm aware and that means that for those pilots starting on £26k you'll soon be earning upwards of that and moving onto more money and potentially commands in those 5 years. Worst case scenario is you wait in the holding pool for a job, but they wouldn't be sponsoring courses if they didn't want the pilots. As a trainee at CCAT i'd like to have the added security (and lessed loan amount) of being on a part sponsored course.

At the end of the day people shouldn't be phased by it if its what they want to do. If i was elligible i'd go for it but alas i'm 4 months into the course already and i'm too young to apply for this years anyway. Best of luck to those of you who are going for it. I may well see you around cranfield in the near future!

[Wazzoo]

I'm still waiting for my application form, but in the mean time could someone post what the dates of the vasrious phases of the selection process are. What kind of time scale is it likely to be and the approx start date of the course?

(They had all these details on last years form so I guess they will this year)

Thanks! :ok:

[CPL_Ace]

I guess that if there are people like Wazoo and JediDude who are willing to do this then fair play to them and Flybe. They've got it just right. Eager pilots on a 5 year contract.

Best of luck to you - it's always a gamble no matter which way you look at this industry. Lets hope you do well and guess right. :\

[Wazzoo]

I guess that if there are people like Wazoo and JediDude who are willing to do this then fair play to them and Flybe. They've got it just right. Eager pilots on a 5 year contract.


Your tone sounds somewhat condescending of those who might consider this scheme, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :ok:

Suffice to say, you could do a lot worse that try for the Flybe scheme. I've been doing the figures on the various schemes available currently and trying to look at the long term costs involved rather than just what you have to stump up up front to begin with.

With Flybe and CCAT you can expect to have to pay ~£57,400 in the long term for you training (£37,644 + £3,960 deducted each year by Flybe - Accom is included in the 37k). Depending on financing of the £37k, need to add another £10,000 or so on top in terms of interests payments for the long term cost so lets say ~£70,000 for the total long term cost. Bonded against the cost of the type rating of £13,500 for 5 years. You'll be starting on at salary of £26,191 (£22,231 with repayments) on turboprops.

With Excel and OAT you can expect to have to pay ~£100,000 in the long term for the training (5 years of £18,000 + £10,000 accom). No bond as such, but repayments tax free by Excel for 5 years. Type rating is paid for by Excel. You'll be starting on a salary of ~£36,000 (but only £18,000 after repayments) on jets.

With CTC you can expect to have to pay ~£98,000 in the long term for the training (£84,000 total repayments + £4000 foundation + £10,000 accom). Bond for 7 years with monthly repayments of £1000, but can jump jobs and keep up repayments. Starting salary varies but you're looking at ~£30,000 (£18,000 with repayments) for Easyjet/Thomas Cook as far as I can work out and you'll be on jets most likely.

Other the other hand, basics costs for each of the three FTOs are as follows:
OAT: ~£60,000 + £4,000 (CAA/exams etc) + £10,000 (Accom) = £74,000
FTE: ~£63,000
Cabair: ~ £52,352 + £1692 (CAA) + £10,000 (Accom) = £64,000

I haven't included things like loans and repayments on the FTO costs since they will vary from person to person and what financing they are using. But expect to add another £15,000 - £20,000 on to those costs in interest for the long term costs. So you're looking in the region of £80,000 - £95,000 for those long term.

Conclusions:
-------------
From my rough calculations above, the Flybe scheme is rather favourable in comprison to the other schemes out there, and also against the FTOs directly.

You're argument then is that the bond against the type rating and the 2 year potential hold pool are a disadvantage. I think that has to come down to each persons personal opinion. It keeps me awake at night thinking of the size of the loans you need to take out these days without any gurantee of a job. And any scheme that offers me a greater (not necessarily certain) chance of a job is a big bonus in my eyes. Schemes such as CTC, Flybe/Cabair, Excel/OAT and even Atlantique/Highland air (although thats a different kettle of fish) all provide some greater chance of getting a job.

It is then down to the individual to weigh up how much they are willing to pay to get a greater chance of a job, and what the return is. For example, the Flybe/Cabair scheme and the Excel/OAT scheme both offer similar offers of job (we'll probably take you, but don't hold us to it etc), yet the prices of the schemes are vastly different. Similarly you could go directly to FTE or OAT and not be tied to any scheme and have a slightly decreased chance of getting a job. Each persons milage will vary depending on their opinions, choice, and situation.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I guess I should bring it back to the beginning by saying you could do a lot worse than to try and go for the Flybe/Cabair scheme!

:)

** Big big disclaimer! Its quite likely I've miscalculted along the way or missed out some horrendous cost/factor. Don't flame me, just point it out and i'll adjust my views and thinking accordingly :)

Also, I haven't touch the modular/integrated route. Don't have the time, you know the story already anyway. Each to their own choices, financial situation, outlook on life, thoughts for the future etc. I'm only really thinking of people who are already considering some sort of integrated course I guess.

[potkettleblack]

Good effort Wazoo, its really refreshing to see someone approaching these things with logic rather than gut feel and then coming back on here moaning about how they made the wrong choice etc.

After reading through your calcs though I am not sure if you did/didn't take into account the difference in earnings. At somewhere like flybe you correctly point out that you earn circa £26k and flying a jet its £38k. At Flybe you are bonded for 5 years so someone flying jets will earn approx £60k more over the 5 years assuming that earnings went up at the same level - in reality I think its more as jet guys go up in higher annual increments. And we know from ppjn that Flybe are capped at £30k in the first 5 years.

The other point I would make is that by not being bonded you could potentially say in year 3 or 4 be somewhere paying significantly more than what excel/mytravel etc were offering and the earnings differential would be much more significant. Lets say for example you got 900 hours pa on jets then after 3-4 years a legacy carrier like Cathay could be an option where you would expect annual salary to be over £50k plus flight pay and all of the perks such as interlines etc.

Good stuff.

[Wazzoo]

After reading through your calcs though I am not sure if you did/didn't take into account the difference in earnings. At somewhere like flybe you correctly point out that you earn circa £26k and flying a jet its £38k. At Flybe you are bonded for 5 years so someone flying jets will earn approx £60k more over the 5 years assuming that earnings went up at the same level - in reality I think its more as jet guys go up in higher annual increments. And we know from ppjn that Flybe are capped at £30k in the first 5 years.


Thats true, I didn't really take account of that. And looking at the payscales on ppjn the jet salaries increase significantly more rapidly compared to TPs. Another thing to weigh up in the grand scheme of things. Some will want to run straight for the jets and the money while others might be happy to have the experience on TPs and take the pay hit.

Ditto with the bond, that in my mind is probably the biggest penalty/offset. When the industry turns/dives/soars you're stuck where you are come rain or shine. The Flybe scheme is definately a bond, however the Excel scheme doesn't seem to mention a bond and as long as you keep up the repayments it looks like you could move to another airline, but don't take my word for it.

A pilot friend counceled against taking on bonds noting the fickle nature of the industry, but in some senses thats what you take for getting the helping bump into the industry...that said if the situation is good/bad enough it is possible to get out albeit with a hefty price to pay often.

All things that people should weigh up and make their own choice, going into things with their eyes open and head screwed on.

Thanks for the compliments :ok:

[rogueflyer01]

Another fantastic opportunity..i have just received the pack and i am expediently filling in the required forms...good luck to all :cool:

[CPL_Ace]

I think Wazoo is right. There are people who are looking for different things (wasn't being facetious). When I started self sponsored the industry was just about dragging itself back up with airlines starting to make profits again. I could not have predicted today's situation.

My point is you are taking a gamble despite all your numbers (which are comendable, some people just pay out money without even thinking about it).

I'm saying that this scheme takes away a lot of the flexability I think we wannabes need to match the industry. In just 4 months, TR schemes, sponsorships and integrated courses are radically changing. Airlines' recruitment policies change constantly. To fork out the inevitable mortgage that you can not escape, but all eggs in one basket ???? I'm not so sure:\

[raviolis]

. I still think I'm going to go with it, my ambitions don't really go beyond that of a regional carrier and I have a particular soft-spot for the Dash 8. :)

Is that why you're named after a Jersey aircraft registration ? :cool:

[Propellerhead]

Not sure of your figure for OAT/Excel of £100k. Haven't studied the figures in depth but my understanding is you have to take out a £60k loan at the start of the course, then Excel pay YOU 18k a year tax free to repay your loan, plus £18k salary. The fact that it's tax free makes it worth more (~23% at the basic tax rate), so effectively like earning 18k + £22k which is 40k. So you really only pay £60k plus interest plus £10k living expenses. = 70k plus interest. There's also nothing stopping you paying off your loan earlier if you want, although probably a struggle on 18k a year salary!

[wingbar]

A set of liars, DD the biggest culprit, don't believe a word they say ....

[Chesty Morgan]

Care to elaborate wingbar?

[JediDude]

Does anybody have a rough idea how long the application pack takes to arrive? and did you get confirmation after you sent the email? I sent the email last Sunday and haven't heard anything yet, the cutoff date is fast approaching and I'm getting quite worried.

[Wazzoo]

Not sure of your figure for OAT/Excel of £100k. Haven't studied the figures in depth but my understanding is you have to take out a £60k loan at the start of the course, then Excel pay YOU 18k a year tax free to repay your loan, plus £18k salary. The fact that it's tax free makes it worth more (~23% at the basic tax rate), so effectively like earning 18k + £22k which is 40k. So you really only pay £60k plus interest plus £10k living expenses. = 70k plus interest. There's also nothing stopping you paying off your loan earlier if you want, although probably a struggle on 18k a year salary!

Interesting..I went back and read through it again and its not entirely clear. The text relating to the repayments is as follows:


In addition to the security of ‘conditional employment’, successful OAT/Excel candidates will benefit from a special Cadet First Officer salary programme. In addition to a salary of more than £18,000 per annum in year 1, Excel will also pay those selected for the scheme an approximately equal, tax-free sum in reimbursement for their training expenses. The arrangement will continue over a 5 year period, with both salary and expenses increasing annually. The effect of this arrangement is that graduates will achieve significant financial benefit compared to the more usual situation of repaying their training costs themselves out of a normal First Officer net salary. The airline also currently provides type training for selectees at company expense.

The first bit of text in bold indicates that they will pay the people selected the 18k tax free. My knowledge of all things financial is not great, but I can't see how that works and I believe is just a slip up in the wording. Any money you are payed by your employer should be taxed, and it is normal for the salary to be quoted in pre-tax figures since tax will vary from person to person i.e if you are on a quoted salary of 18k, then in reality you will only ever see 14k of it, or there abouts, because between the employer and you the government takes a slice of it.

The normal thing in this situation is for the employer to pay back your bond/loan before tax, i.e. before paying you. It comes straight out of their accounts towards the bond/loan and doesn't go via the student, that way the governement doesn't take a slice and your loan gets paid off quicker than if you were to pay it off yourself. So if they are making a point of the 18k being pre-tax, then you never see that money.

On top of that I would add that a starting salary of 40k for a low-houred FO is significantly above normal. For example, from word of mouth GB Airways have one of the highest salaries in the industry and they pay a low-houred FO 36K as opposed to 41K for an experienced FO. And thats pretty much the best pay a FO can expect to get..most airlines are lower.

Finally, the second bit of text in bold indicates that their method is different from the student getting paid a salary and then paying the loan back from that. Which would indicate that they pay the 18k before it gets to the student, i.e. pre-tax.

All in all the text doesn't seem very clear and also seems to contradict itself. However logic and reason tells me that they pay the 18k pre-tax and you don't see any of it which is where I arrive at the figure of 100K above.

Then again, I could well be wrong, so I recommend getting a definitive answer from the horses mouth so to say, and ask on the OAT forums :)

Apologies for hijaking the Flybe thread with Excel discussions but it seemed pertinant to answer the question.

[JediDude]

So, how many of you have taken the plunge with the FlyBE/Cabair scheme then? Anybody thats been through the process before that can give us all a heads up on what to expect?

[raviolis]

So, how many of you have taken the plunge with the FlyBE/Cabair scheme then? Anybody thats been through the process before that can give us all a heads up on what to expect?

Been very tempted until the end, still not sure even now, but I won't go for it. I don't have 40k to pay in advance and I don't want to be in debt for a minimum of 6 years.
And the selection costs are too high. Having passed PILAPT tests at other 2 selections I don't really want to spend another 200 quid to play with that joystick again !

My reasons are not only financial anyway. I am enjoying flying at GA level and I am not so concerned about jumping on a turbopropo or a jet yet. I like the idea of enjoying different stages of the flying experience step by step.
If you wanna jump straight to FL240, I think this is a very good opportunity, although, make no mistake, it doesn't come cheap at all.
I am (unfortunately) approaching my late twenties and I don't think I could live on a reduced FO salary minus flybe loan repayment minus 40k bank repayment

good luck !

[The Mixmaster]

yeah I'm with raviolis on this one. Being tied to Flybe for 5 years on a reduced salary as well as paying for another selection procedure, which in my humble opinion isn't as appealing as CTC or the Excel/OAT scheme, really doesn't appeal. Also the prospect of living between Milton Keynes and Bedford at Cranfield Uni for a year doesn't really excite me!

[ATPLTrainee]

Also the prospect of living between Milton Keynes and Bedford at Cranfield Uni for a year doesn't really excite me!

Theres nothing wrong with that i'll have you know! nothing beats the accomodation marie sorts out and our weekly trips to Tesco's :p

[The flying nut]

Hi guys
am new to this but i hve just applied for the sponsorship with flybe. i had applied to CTC sponsorship course but was rejected because i failed the maths test by 3 marks (:mad: ). You were saying about the cost of the training being £40,000, well the way i see it is that either way you are getting to fly which has always been a dream for me.

[potkettleblack]

Have a read through the terms and endearment section and do a search on flybe going back the past few years and you will see that they are not a happy bunch. They have a higher than normal turnover rate of staff. Many of the FO's head for the hills once they have experience under their belts as they are poorly paid compared to their peers (to the tune of 20k or more pa!). There are promises of pay rises which don't arise, promises of promotions onto the 146 which are dangled as carrots to keep you loyal. Unfortunately they have become a stepping stone airline rather than one which you would want to develop a long term career. By all means go for it but go in with open eyes being fully aware of what you are getting yourself into as 5 years is a long time to be locked in.

[The flying nut]

i did not know that thanks for the information. if it does get your commertial pilots licence then im game for it.:p

[chileconcarne27]

Has anyone heard back about this scheme yet? i know its only been a few days since the closing date so its probably a bit premature to ask......any news......from anyone?

[njptvr]

According to Keren at Cabair they will be contacting people around the end of this week. They have LOTS of applications by the sounds of things!
Good luck everyone! NJP

[JediDude]

Well I just got the good news that I'm through to Phase 1 via email. Anybody else heard anything? I guess that Phase 1 is held down at Cranfield, What would be the best way to get there? Flight to Luton and then a taxi?

[The flying nut]

I havn't heard anything just yet from cabair.

[chileconcarne27]

I'm still waiting! What time did your email come through? I think i'm checking my inbox way too often.....if about every ten minutes on average is considered too muhc!

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!!! Hopefully this will be second time lucky for me with Flybe

CCC

[femaleWannabe]

Well I just got the good news that I'm through to Phase 1 via email. Anybody else heard anything? I guess that Phase 1 is held down at Cranfield, What would be the best way to get there? Flight to Luton and then a taxi?

I'm through as well... I think Luton is the best option... unless Cranfield is good for trains? I'm hoping the confirmation letter might give some advice on getting there.

[njptvr]

Still no news here, grrrr the suspense is killing me! I suppose no news is better than bad news! :ugh:

[captain kid]

I have also recieved an e mail this afternoon confirming pass to phase 1. Fingers Crossed!

[Weekillie]

I've been invited down too!

Now to figure out the best way to travel.

[JediDude]

Got my confirmation letter this morning. 26th September it is. Got myself booked on Easyjet 9.25 Edinburgh-Luton returning at 21.00. If anyone on the same flight wants to share a taxi to Cabair give me a shout.

[njptvr]

If anyone wants a lift to the assesments on the 26th I will be going past Luton airport on my way there and am happy to pick up to 4 people up and drop them back at Luton afterwards if you want to save the cab fare!!!

PS. Horray, I got invited too! Well done to everyone who did!

[JediDude]

Count me in njptvr. That would be most handy. I'm assuming we are all going at the same time, 13.00?

[The flying nut]

Got word back from cabair today stating that they would not be accepting me on the course, and i should consider that as final.:mad: . Does anybody know of any other sponsorship schemes which are coming up, except for ctc wings.

[chileconcarne27]

Looks like i'm not coming either - phoned them today and it looks like you only got through to the next stage if you received an email on friday so you could book time off.

Still waiting for the letter though so hopefully it'll say something different: fingers crossed!

Oh and well done to all those who did get trhrough! I got quite far with the Flybe/FTE scheme so if you want any info on the interviews etc then pm me

:D :D :D :D

[captain kid]

Has any one had previous expeience of the Phase 2 tests, what shall i expect apart from the maths and physics as stated in our letters? Any help would be great.

Many Thanks

[tomcs]

Good Luck guys/girls....looking forward to seeing those fo you who are successful on the line!

[dntist]

I 've received a rejection letter yesterday. It seems that there is a "sympathy" with guys from abroad...:rolleyes:

I hope this is not the case. Has anyone not British passed to the next phase???

[dannyweaver]

I'll be there too, if anyone wants a lift down from the Derby area, give me a shout.
The letter says there will be three aural/written tests, based on A/S Maths/Physics. Aah! Less than a week to revise A/S level, its been over four years since I did them...
Does anyone have any previous experience of the areas covered in the tests? I hope I'm not going to have to revise all that pure maths rubbish...
see you there!
Dan

[JediDude]

Count yourself lucky, it's been 14 years since I did AS Maths :}

[redED]

Well done to those of you that saw the light and applied for the FlyBe sponsorship. Good move. There're two of this year's FlyBe sponsored crop writing this so the info is at least half reliable.

The repayments will be taken from your salaries for 5 years. Not a long time in the grand scheme of the possibility of 30+ years available to you in the aviation industry. Plus, if you honour your bond (no reason not to) the type rating is free for an airline with pretty much the youngest fleet in aviation, not to mention the prospect of an Embraer jet to get your hands on.

So to those of you down next week for the tests. :ok: The tests are nothing to worry about. Pretty basic (GCSE and AS Level, can't remember what exactly, speed, distance, time and interpolating tables) Physics (written) and Maths (written) as well as an aural maths/physics combined test (No question paper, just working and answers) sandwiched in between (all multiple choice like the real things but no calculators allowed). After that, aptitude, If you've been to Cranwell for the RAF and passed those then don't worry. Then the interviews.

Best of luck

[JediDude]

Good luck to everybody attending tomorrow.

[Ronaldsway Radar]

Good luck everyone, I'm not there this year, but hoping to in the future maybe.

Most of you still up doing AS Maths/Physics revision at this time? :}

RR

[philsy]

:) Woohoo. just got a letter confirming I am through to the next stage. Anyone got any tips for stage 3?

[JediDude]

Still no letter here. Doesn't look good :(

[philsy]

Anyone from here going on the 17th october? Also, does anyone know how many people are going to the next stage?

[njptvr]

Im going on the 17th of October as well Philsy and am also interested in how many of us remain?!?!
It started out with over 200 applications of which 59 sat the exams though I know more were invited but declined the offer. Im guessing that no more than half of us will be through to the next stage, though that is a complete guess. From what I have heard 8 - 12 go to stage 4 to fill 5 or 6 places.:eek:
Have you started your essay yet? :rolleyes:

[philsy]

Yeah I've started the essay but its only about 270 words.

Not sure whether to keep it short and sweet or to go into lots of detail.

I'm bit nervous about the interview as well as it says there will be technical questions!!!???!!!

Have you sorted out where you are staying or are you commuting early in the morning?

[dannyweaver]

I had an interesting call from Cabair the day after the tests... apparently they were looking for 19 to go through to the next stage (so there you go njptvr!) and I was just outside this. I was told that I got a good score, but not quite in those top few, so would I like to be placed in 'reserve', ready to take the place just in case someone else drops out!

Certainly would!

Bit of a blow and a bit annoying, but you never know... Its better than being rejected altogether.

I just hope that whoever got through instead of me deserved to, and that its not just a case of them being slightly better at maths than I am. In common with most of the rest of you, I've worked bloody hard towards achieving my life-long goal of becoming a commercial pilot and it annoys me when I go to these sponsorship things and talk to other people there who clearly don't really know all that much about aviation and aren't really that bothered about a career as a pilot. You must know the kind of people I mean, the ones that are just finishing uni, looking for a job and just fancy the sound of a flying career; or the ones that don't know the difference between an integrated and modular course; or the ones that are surprised when you tell them that BA don't do sponsorships any more.

If one of THEM got through - yeah, I know they'll get weeded out at the next tests or the interviews, but it means that the few of us that really want this sponsorship but just missed the top 19 in the tests don't get a look in.





Rant over...!

Fingers crossed that someone (one of the above) drops out and good luck to the rest of you that do deserve it!

[high-hopes]

I just hope that whoever got through instead of me deserved to, and that its not just a case of them being slightly better at maths than I am. In common with most of the rest of you, I've worked bloody hard towards achieving my life-long goal of becoming a commercial pilot and it annoys me when I go to these sponsorship things and talk to other people there who clearly don't really know all that much about aviation and aren't really that bothered about a career as a pilot. You must know the kind of people I mean, the ones that are just finishing uni, looking for a job and just fancy the sound of a flying career; or the ones that don't know the difference between an integrated and modular course; or the ones that are surprised when you tell them that BA don't do sponsorships any more.


I know what you mean, it is frustrating, but it's the airlines' and flight schools fault, by making this a business, and not a real search for skilled individuals.
There's far too many sponsorships around where the applicants have to pay 100% of the training (plus interest). It has become a business, and as such, those are the consequences.

I would have loved to apply for the flybe scheme, but there's no way I could (and would) be able to pay 40 grand in advance.

Not to mention the selection test fees. A company is looking for a candidate that meets the requirements, and invest in selection for finding them. Why should the candidates pay for it ? HR people and recruiters are paid to do that job. You'll find that companies looking for really skilled people will have free selection, and will also refund you for your travel expenses.

I am sure that, just like me, many wannabes with maybe potential and true interest and passion, were put off the idea of applying, and eventually didn't ! Not surprising, then, to find candidates that don't seem to be that interested.

[The Mixmaster]

I 100% agree with you about having to pay for the privelege of selection. I've not encountered any other kind of industry where this is the case and it was a major factor in me not applying for the Cabair/Flybe scheme and OAT/Excel scheme. I was told over the phone by an OAT employee that they have to pay the software company a certain amount of money each time they use the selection software and pay for HR staff present but surely with the possibility of gaining £40k-£60k from those they are selecting this more than offsets the costs for selection. Shame it will continue as people seem to be more than willing to shell out for it.

[dannyweaver]

well I didn't like having to pay for the tests, but that's just how it seems to be in this industry! Quite frankly I'd rather pay £60 now, £40k later and then be stuck with with Flybe for a few years; than pay, for the sake of argument, £70k and risk hanging around for a couple of years trying to get a job...

But knowing that there were only ever going to be 4 places or so and hundreds of applicants, you have to accept that you probably will end up paying yourself. I know that, and am saving up to pay for (most likely) the modular route myself. But it doesn't stop me applying for these schemes on the way; its not the easiest career to get started in (!) and so I think you have to give everything a shot. Alright, Flybe are only contributing £20k (and you have to pay it back) but its better than nothing, right???

If I thought I didn't stand a chance of getting the sponsorship, I wouldn't have paid the money and applied. But I think I do stand a chance and so I'm willing to pay what is a relatively small sum of money to find out.

[The Mixmaster]

It's more the big integrated schools I'm having a pop at than the people who pay for selection (would be a bit hypocritical as I paid for CTC selection!!). FTE/Thomsonfly scheme was a free and fairly comprehensive selection process yet other schools charge almost £200 for a similiar process. Just seems to me that these schools are taking advantage of people desperate to break into the pilot career. Guess that's business for you!

[JediDude]

In my rejection letter from FlyBE/Cabair I got the offer of returning to sit the tests and PILAPT free of charge for a place on an integrated course. I am of course accepting this generous offer :E I feel a £40k bankloan coming on...

[speedrestriction]

Chins up folks!!
Flybe are still to recieve a large number of Q400s from the manufacturers. At the current rate of expansion and with the current pilot attrition rate (see here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242577&page=4)) they will continue to recruit for the forseeable future. If you commit to self funded training it is quite possible that you will get a second bite of the cherry once qualified.

However flight training continues to be a risky investment. Don't take the risk if you cannot afford to lose.

sr

[JediDude]

It's exactly that risk that worries me, especially having a family to consider. I wish it was possible to have like a list of every graduate from the integrated schools detailing exactly what they are doing just now. All the information and statistics regarding success rates of graduates on this site appear to be conjecture and rumours.

[felth]

Speedrestriction is exactly right. Some years ago I applied for the flybe sponsorship and was unsuccessful with them. However I persevered and decided to go down the self sponsored route and undertook an integrated course. It has taken me over a year now since finishing to secure an airline job but thankfully I will be starting on the Q400 soon. In some ways you are in a better position than those that are sponsored as you are not on a reduced salary! My point is that the competition for their sponsorship is extremely high and massively over subscribed so don't be too disheartened if you are not sucessfull! There are always other avenues to explore and at the moment the industry does seem to be buoyant however it is very cyclical. Self funding will always be a risky investment but totally worth it if you achieve your goals. Best of luck to everybody!

[philsy]

Good luck to everybody attending this week. :)

[philsy]

In my rejection letter from FlyBE/Cabair I got the offer of returning to sit the tests and PILAPT free of charge for a place on an integrated course. I am of course accepting this generous offer :E I feel a £40k bankloan coming on...

Out of interest how much were they asking for? Is it the same rate advertised on their website?

[jurgenpopp]

Hi im 14 and i was just wondering if there is anything that i could do at my age now to boost my chances of getting on a sponsored course?

[speedrestriction]

Get involved in team activities, work hard at school, read a book on CRM.

[small_dog]

As mentioned above, get involved with team activities and also consider joining the air cadets as you'll have the opportunity to undertake aviation related activities as well as going on camps (which were always a good laugh). Common questions that pops up in many interviews (not just for sponsorship schemes but for normal jobs as well) are
Tell me about a time when you have worked in a team, when you have effectively led a team, when you have handled responsibility, when you have deal with conflict.
Getting involved in a Youth Organisation (Duke of Edinburgh/Air Cadets/Scouts etc) is a good way of getting the life experience which can enable you to answer these questions effectively.
All the best :ok:

[njptvr]

Hey all
Now the Phase 3 selection is over and we can all breath a nervous sigh of relief how did people find it?
I went on Tuesday and got on ok I think apart from the level of technical questions I got asked at interview which was a little unexpected!
Meant to say hi to "Philsy" on tuesday but never did find out which of the other 5 he was, oppss! :rolleyes:

Good luck to everyone for Friday! NJP

[dannyweaver]

it was interesting yesterday! quite a few must have dropped out after the second stage as at least 3 of us were ones that were originally rejected. Seemed to go ok, but those Morrisbry tests don't half drag on...

The patterns, numbers, etc sections at the beginning were tedious but not too bad, I'm more worried about the last couple of sections! Not so sure about the PILAPT tests. I think the interview was the best bit, seemed to go ok. slightly messed up the technical question on winglets but was ok on the rest. Just have to wait til next Wed, I guess!

[njptvr]

Hey guys
Has anyone heard anything yet? From what I understood they were making the cut on Thursday in the hope of getting letters out to be with people by Friday or Saturday!
Is that the same timeline as others had been told? or did I get get cut? :rolleyes:
NJP

[dannyweaver]

I was told I'd hear by next Wednesday; they'll be having an initial look at people overall straight away, but have to wait for the Morrisbry test results to come back.

[rogueflyer01]

http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com/page.php?page_name=campaign

Good luck chaps..

[philsy]

Not heard anything yet. I presume this is bad news. Good luck to the lucky few who got through. :)

[sec 3]

Howdy gents. Is there an age limit for this sponsorship scheme?:( Thanks

[Thumperdown]

Age discrimination legislation now in force should mean no limitations are allowed to be in force.
Regards
Thumper

[philsy]

Got the rejection letter today:sad: Thought as much. Best wishes to the guys who are still in with a chance.:)

[njptvr]

Got a phone call from Cabair yesterday saying that the interviews for the eight people left on the sponsorship application had been postponed because they couldnt get the key people from Flybe to be there.
Odd I thought.......and now it all becomes clear!!!
Think a trip to the Flight Training Show to find out what is really going on with the 2007 sponsorship scheme is in order!!!
Good luck to the other 7 people, lets hope our interviews and the course do materialise! NJP

[scroggs]

I think it's unlikely that there will be any major effect on your course(s) - those entering training in 2007 are going to be doing type ratings in the latter half of 2008 or early 2009, so the dust will have long settled from the Flybe takeover of BACon. With Flybe's aggressive expansion plans, I would think that by then they'll be back on the hiring warpath, and they will need your new blood - as long as there are no outside surprises.

Scroggs

[njptvr]

Thanks for the encouraging words Scroggs. I was kind of figuring the same and am still feeling positive about the whole thing. Will be very interesting to gauge other peoples take on the deal at the show tomorrow. NJP

[Gateway7z]

Hi Sec,

I have the news you require for Flybe/Cabair. The maximum age for sponsorship is 33 years of age, at the back end of the age range having a JAR PPL is a real plus! If you have an IMC or Night rating even better still!

I could be wrong but I believe that serious concideration is given to those that qualify between the ages of 20 to 24 for Zero to fATPL courses!?

Howdy gents. Is there an age limit for this sponsorship scheme?:( Thanks

[a320yes]

Hi everyone!!

Has anybody been called from FTE regarding the Flybe/FTE MAPS yet??

I was guessing they would start calling this past week...so it should be this upcoming week then??

[OxfordFlyer]

Morning peeps. Hope everyone had a good weekend. Was just wondering the same thing as a320yes. Anyone heard anything from FTE regarding the Flybe MAPS scheme? If I remember correctly it was a case of if you don't hear anything you're not through.

[Captain Spam Can]

Hi, Im throught to Stage 3 (the Aptitude testing bit) for flybe MAPS FTE scheme. I was wondering if anyone has any info on the tests they do and what they consist of as its held at Exeter Airport so i dont know if the tests are Flybe's or FTE's?:eek: :eek: :eek: :yuk: :yuk:

Thanks

[Cpt. Relax]

Did you get a phonecall?

Are you sure stage 3 includes aptitude testing and not just an interview?

[Cpt. Relax]

Are you sure Stage 3 includes aptitude testing and not just an interview?

[Captain Spam Can]

Positive, it includes Numeracy,Numerical Reasoning,Pilot aptitude tests and an interview. Just wondering if anyone has done these as they only give you a weeks notice!!! so i could really do with some examples to start revising...Help!!:ugh: I got a phone call and an email.

[Cpt. Relax]

It includes also verbal reasoning.

But I don't know what to expect from that...

I hope it won't be a problem for someone who doesn't speak English at home.

[HK2006]

As I understand it Stage 3 is as Captain Spam Can states unless you have already taken the FTE assessment and aptitude tests in which case it just consists of an interview.

The logical conclusion is that the tests are probably FTEs. You should expect to receive a phone call and an email if you are successful.

[OxfordFlyer]

Just thought I'd keep the community updated. Got my rejection email today so if you've not heard anything yet, it seems you will do over the next day or so. Good luck to those going through.

As for the aptitude testing, I would imagine it's fairly identical to every other aptitude testing that you have to jump through e.g. revise long division, percentages, fractions, ratios, sequences, etc. There are plenty of threads about it and the type of thing you can expect on pprune.

[a320yes]

Congrats to everybody going to Stage 3!!

I am also through to this stage. Does anybody have an idea of where to stay near Exeter airport (hotels...).
I would really appreciate any info!! ;)

Good luck and happy flyings!!:ok: