Islander queries - not THOSE Islanders

[Jackonicko]

Why did some of the civil-registered aircraft used by military sports parachute clubs also allocated military serials? (The RAF Sports Parachute Association's BN-2T G-DIVE was ZB503, for example, and G-WOTG was ZF444. Why? Were there any others?)

What radar did the 'Platypus' ASTOR Islander (G-DLRA/ZG989) use? Why did the aircraft then get a spherical radome like the AEW Defender? Change of radar to Skymaster? What does it have now, and what's it being used for?

Who was the AEW Islander/Defender aimed at? Did anyone here have anything to do with its shipboard trials (I've only seen a photo of it on the boat and know no details)?

Can anyone give an unclass. idea of the Army Islander AL.Mk 1's equipment fit? Jane's have listed AN/ALQ-144, 'a Lockheed Martin IRCM suite', and a recce fit with a door-mounted Zeiss 610 camera, a vertical Zeiss Trilens 80 mm and a second vertical camera fit, consisting of an F126, or a Zeiss RMK or two KS-153 cameras, or a Vinten F143 panoramic camera.

What caused the accident at Broughton on June 30, 1999?

Is it true that the single AFWF Islander has “joined its brethren with No.1 Flight at RAF Aldergrove”? When did this happen?

What will happen to the Islanders at RAF Aldergrove when Op Banner ends in August 07?

What is the operating unit for the three new Defender AL1s? Is it 651 Squadron? Is 651 notionally at Odiham?

Are they any good? Are the Hairy Arm Corps pleased with them?

[[email protected]]

Where do babies come from?

What do occasional tables do the rest of the time?

So many questions, so little time?

wgaf?

[Jackonicko]

Humor: 4/10
Effort to be funny: 10/10
Help: 0/10

[boyassassin]

Soooo many questions, is it a tight deadline?:oh:

[[email protected]]

Care? Priceless.

[Jackonicko]

Boy,

No, not especially. Just a few loose ends that it would be nice to tie up.

And the faint hope that someone will come up with something funny or colourful in the Islander anecdote line.....

I'd hope that none of what I've asked is sensitive, which is why there are no questions on roles, tactics, the current op deployment, the new Defenders' fit, or about the Northolt cabs.

[BEagle]

Why is abbrevation such a long word?

Why does all water, whether deep or shallow, only come halfway up a duck?

A thermos flask keeps hot things hot and cold things cold. But how does it know which to do?

The only reason the Islander has such good short take-off performance is due to the intense vibration causing molecular resonance and consequential local vacuum effects over the upper wing surfaces.....

No idea what caused the Broughton prang (although I saw the wreck at Bembridge). However, when the Hampshire police wrote off an Edgeley Optica a week or so after acquiring it, no-one needed to wait for the BoI to establish the cause.........






























It was very simple: Pigs Can't Fly.

[airborne_artist]

BEagle

Slightly below your usual standard, considering two hard-working Hampshire officers were killed in the Optica crash. :=

[BEagle]

Sorry - very poor taste.

RIP.

The cause was never fully established. However, comment was expressed at the fact that neither occupant held a professional pilot's licence.

[ZH875]

I'd hope that none of what I've asked is sensitive, ......[followed by:]....can anyone give an unclass. idea of the Army Islander AL.Mk 1's equipment fit? Well as the equipment fit may be sensitive, the unclassified answer must be:

Several Black Boxes, Some Grey boxes, associated lights (Possibly Red/Green/Amber in color - some bright and others dim) and a few switches.

Oh, and not forgetting a handful of fuses/cct breakers.

[wg13_dummy]

Jacko, all you need to know will be on the internet. If it aint there.....you don't need to know....






The only Q I can (will) answer is that the AAC are very happy with the aircraft. Just ask anyone on 1 (Resettlement) Flight. (Full IFR, Twin fixedwing rating etc, etc..) :hmm:

[Jackonicko]

I'm told that the camera fit info in Jane's came straight off a display board at an IAT some years ago, so presumably that, at least, is unclass.

The Army website is pants, but I was hoping that there might have been something in an Aldergrove station magazine, presentation, or somesuch.


Beags,

The duck thing is a load of old 'quack'. The water in the stream in my village at the mo doesn't come halfway up a duck.

[wg13_dummy]

Aldergrove station magazine

....A restricted document. So, again no leads there poindexter. :}

[Jackonicko]

Restricted?

Blimey. Must be the only one that is.

[What Limits]

I did two tours on the plank so I know a bit about it.

The camera fit suggested earlier in the thread is pretty accurate for when I was doing it but things have probably moved on a bit by now. We also trialled a pod camera in one of the underwing tank positions which was almost impossible to use and I understand it was reallocated to the Harrier Fleet.

This pod also needed to be plugged into the mains when on the ground to keep the environmental control package going. So I said to this boffin..."What happens if we taxy with the cable still connected?" he says "Millions of pounds worth of damage!!" I says "Better put a break in the cable" he says "Won't need that!!" I says "Will" So they relented and did, only for one of my brothers to test it in week one!!

In the Broughton accident, a lot was learnt at the cost of some serious injuries, thankfully my mate was not hurt too bad.

Mega experienced QFI takes mega experienced fixed-wing pilot on an IR renewal. On the go around the QFI initiates a single engine failure by retarding the engine condition lever. Sadly he misses the poxy little notch which indicates the idle gate and inadvertantly selects Fuel Off - Feather. Engine responds exactly as advertised.

In the ensuing melee, whilst trying to restart the engine, they forget that the plank will only climb at Vsec +/- 0 and come into contact with trees. The rest is history.

They stored the Platypus at Aldergrove for a while, and wanted us to ground run it occasionally to keep it going. So I got volunteered and when I set fire to the tarmac with the APU, they decide it wasn't such a good idea after all!

Otherwise great plane, great job, loved it.

[wg13_dummy]

Restricted?
Blimey. Must be the only one that is.

No, I think you will find most are due to names and locs being published. Not the sort of things youd find in WH Smiths are they? Really only designed for people on or directly connected to the stations.

[Jackonicko]

WG13 dummy,

I know a fair few station magazines and I don't know any of them that are restricted, any more than RAFN or Navy News are. The Lion's Roar, for example, is distributed free to any interested civvy via the local village Post Office, as are other Oxonian and Hantsorian base magazines.


What Limits,

Excellent! Many thanks for an informative reply.

Fascinating that you had the Platypus at Aldergrove. When was that, roughly?

I wasn't going to ask about the GP(1) trial - I thought that probably had been sensitive commercially if not militarily!

[Green Meat]

Jacko

Your timing is worringly similar to a certain well-known plastics company re-releasing their scale Islander. This wouldn't be an attempt to build models of all the current RAF/AAC/RN aircraft and present all nine to Des as a souvenir of his time in office, by any chance? :E

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Jacko I think Aldergrove's location would be ample reason for the station mag to be restricted.:rolleyes:

Anyway, what shipboard trials?

[Jackonicko]

Greenie,

No. I was unaware that Airfix were re-releasing their Islander.

I am, however, spotterish enough to know that there's was an Islander and the current AAC/RAF aircraft are all Turbine Islanders (and that three are Defender 4000s), and I'd lack the skills required to convert 'em.

I also know that I'd need twelve kits, not nine, if I were to build all the current UK military registered members of the Islander family (Six AAC Islander AL1s, three Defender AL1s, one RAF CC2, one RAF CC2A and ZG989). And one hell of a lot of grey paint......


Webf,

But the Emerald Toilet is now just another part of the UK, surely.

As for shipborne trials, there is a photo of the AEW Defender on the deck of a grey funnel lines carrier. Dunno which one. Dunno when. Dunno even if it was a foreign branch of grey funnel.....

[Green Meat]

Ah, no, you misunderstand me. I didn't mean nine Islanders, I meant nine aircraft in total after this incumbent has finshed denuding our armed forces. :ok:

[Jackonicko]

There's a rather nice photo of one of the new Defenders at:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/Battery1973/_MG_7504web.jpg

[trilander]

Do not knock the islander till you have flown the Trislander

(its a heep of sh$$)

[LowObservable]

I did squelch my initial impulse to add "why do they sell hot dogs packets of 10 and the buns in packets of 8?"

It all looks like a simple way of getting around the problem of flying a UAV in controlled airspace.

And you have to admit that the Trislander was ingenious. Much easier than a conventional trimotor.

[wg13_dummy]

But the Emerald Toilet is now just another part of the UK, surely.

Dare you to go for a run down the Falls Rd in your Sqn T Shirt and UJ running shorts or ask for 'Forces Discount' in Armagh? :ouch:

[Jackonicko]

Thanks for the tips on etiquette in the land of Guinness, WG13.

I'd been all set to wear a Parachute Regiment T-shirt while strolling down the Falls, and had thought that the discount to ask for was an SAS one if you are in South Armagh.....

[wg13_dummy]

I think you will find the South is 'land of Guinness'. Wouldnt expect you to know that though. If you think they are all 'friends' in the North now, think again.

[Jackonicko]

WG13

Sorry squire. Thought for a moment you were engaging in 'banter'. I had not for one moment thought that you would have taken my comment "But the Emerald Toilet is now just another part of the UK, surely." seriously. I should have put [heavy sarcasm]But the Emerald Toilet is now just another part of the UK, surely[/heavy sarcasm] perhaps?

Do lighten up, chum.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Jacko perhaps you should try the aviation forum on ARRSE?

[Jackonicko]

What and miss out on WG13 Dummy's rapier like misunderstanding?

[wg13_dummy]

Oh, I'm sure you'll find me skulking around on there too, Jack. ;)

[NaughtyMonkey]

And I thought the AAC islander was only there so those AAC chappies could pop back to Scotland for the weekend to see their girlfriends!!! :bored: :bored: :bored:

[Jackonicko]

That would be welcome. It seems to be rolling tumbleweeds (and Mighty Gem) at the mo.....

[Father Jack Hackett]

JN, WG13 et al:

Must say I'm not terribly happy with all this "Emerald Toilet" craic. We may have had one or two issues in the recent past, but mostly we can talk things over these days over a nice pint of Guinness (real Guinness, not tourist Guinness, aka Extra Cold). ;)

Having said that, although you could walk quite happily down the Falls these days (if you can get past all the American tourists on their guided tours of the gable wall "Murials" (sic)), I would leave that sqn memorabilia at home......

Anyway, did somebody mention the mighty grey bomber somewhere in this thread?

Drink! ****! Erse! Girls! etc

[Jackonicko]

Tell us tales of said grey bomber, Father Jack.

[clicker]

Do not knock the islander till you have flown the Trislander
(its a heep of sh$$)

Is that why they added a third engine, advanced planning for emergencies?

[the_flying_cop]

the lack of single engine climb ability worries me on a daily basis.

[West Coast]

Beag's
If you melt dry ice and swim in it, will you get wet?

Why do you drive in a parkway, but park in a driveway?

[ZH875]

Why do Brits walk on the Pavement, but the septics drive on them.

[BEagle]

Why do public schoolboys go to private schools?

When an American says he will be somewhere 'momentarily', why does he then stay around?

(Not a jibe at Iraq or Godknowzwheristan!)

[Regie Mental]

Why do 'flammable' and 'inflammable' mean the same thing?

[GlosMikeP]

[quote=Jackonicko;2790891]
Who was the AEW Islander/Defender aimed at? Did anyone here have anything to do with its shipboard trials (I've only seen a photo of it on the boat and know no details)?
quote]

Thorn EMI asked me to fly a trial for them on G-TEMI in 1988 when they were developing the ASTOR but also had an interest in AEW. It was the prototype AEW Defender with the Skymaster AEW radar fit, as developed from the Searchwater.

It would be inappropriate to go into all the details of what I can remember but I advised the aircraft could find a sensible AEW market in the Middle East and perhaps Africa where population densities were low compared to UK and Europe. It could still, in all probability.

I believe the system was in effect, although it wasn't on the plot at the time, an early prototype for the Sea King Whisky (now ASaCS) upgrade that took place in the 90s.

[Jackonicko]

Thanks GlosMike, fascinating stuff

[possel]

Why did some of the civil-registered aircraft used by military sports parachute clubs also allocated military serials? (The RAF Sports Parachute Association's BN-2T G-DIVE was ZB503, for example, and G-WOTG was ZF444. Why? Were there any others?)

<snip>

To answer this original question of the thread, I think it was to allow service pilots without a CPL to fly them legally. I knew a Dominie pilot who flew G-WOTG on that basis.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Beagle wrote: The cause was never fully established. However, comment was expressed at the fact that neither occupant held a professional pilot's licence.


Holding a professional pilot's license doesn't mean you can fly an aeroplane well, only that you are permitted to earn money by doing so. ISTR the cause of the Optica incident was put down to slow speed performance and handling, or lack of..

I know lots of 'professional' pilots who find hand-flying an aeroplane a bit of a challenge:rolleyes: Give 'em an autopilot and a copy of the Times and they are happy!

NaughtyMonkey Wrote: And I thought the AAC islander was only there so those AAC chappies could pop back to Scotland for the weekend to see their girlfriends!!! That would explain the AAC Islander parked up all weekend at Islay then....? A Great way to ship the single malt back to base

[XV277]

What radar did the 'Platypus' ASTOR Islander (G-DLRA/ZG989) use?


http://www.spyflight.co.uk/sentinel.htm

a Ferranti Defence Systems multi-mode all weather radar

How true that is.......

BTW, I hate sites that disable right click!!

[FormerFlake]

When I did my sports parachute course both civillian and military Islanders were used and flown by a civilian. Im sure the dual registration is for licencing etc as mentioned before.

It was standard practive for the pilot to get as close to the ambulance on landings. He got very close at one point, the problem if he hit there was no one left to treat the vicitms.

[XV277]

When I did my sports parachute course both civillian and military Islanders were used and flown by a civilian. Im sure the dual registration is for licencing etc as mentioned before.

It was standard practive for the pilot to get as close to the ambulance on landings. He got very close at one point, the problem if he hit there was no one left to treat the vicitms.


Anyone know if the Skyvan that Hunting use/used for Para Training has a dual reg?

[Aero Mad]

Yes

No

Maybe

No

No

It crashed after fuel problems

The pilot fell asleep

It went to Aldergrove, yes, but was damaged when it fell out of the sky when the pilot was trying to do Bob Hoover style stunts.

[sprucemoose]

I once jumped out of the army's G-AYRU - what were they thinking with that reg?

[Top Bunk Tester]

Took off many times in G-DIVE & G-WOTG. Didn't log many landings in them though. Just as a quick update G-DIVE was sold and has since been written off in a fatal assymetric crash in Spain. Not being used as a meat bomber at the time. G-WOTG has also been sold and I believe is being used as an air taxi somewhere around the Adriatic.

[Fatty]

Jackonicko

The AEW nose was made rounded to improve the handling. I hear that flapless approaches and icing conditions are best avoided.

The Broughton incident. My view is that the sim feather power setting used at the time started the snowball rolling. With power lever idle and condition (prop) lever at the "Low RPM" gate, just before fuel off feather...........

Had the instructor feathered the accidentally shutdown engine instead of attempting a restart, they might have been lucky and cleared the Broughton ridge.

The alternative method, prop at Max and 120 lbft of torque is much less likely to result in cock up.

I should know, whilst examining a test pilot for his LPC/IR I was persuaded (at the start of the trip) to use the first method. All went well until the final landing when I feathered the engine downwind instead of setting sim feather.

He was unruffled by my incompetance, landed on the one engine and even suggested restarting the engine on the landing roll so that no-one need know. He passed.

Had we been at 200 feet after takeoff with the Broughton ridge upwind...............

Is the Defender good? Debatable. However is is cheaper than the alternatives.

Fatty