45x35x16 - What a ridiculous set of measurements!

[BRUpax]

Having to go to the UK, I just measured out the new restrictions for hand baggage. Utterly ridiculous is all I can say. Invented by complete morons who obviously never travel commercially by air. The terrorists must be laughing their socks off!

[Final 3 Greens]

Agreed.

In a few years the Brit press will be asking why the once profitable airline sector has gone the same way as the car industry.

[derekl]

. . . that my expensive, fitted briefcase/laptop case which measures

46x35x9 (exterior max dimensions, including knobbly sticky-outy bits) will not be allowed?

In all the years that I've been travelling transatlantically, this has been almost the smallest piece of cabin luggage I've seen anybody travel with.

[EastMids]

I just measured out the new restrictions for hand baggage. Utterly ridiculous is all I can say. Invented by complete morons who obviously never travel commercially by air.

Nope, not by morons. The size was chosen, quite cleverly I believe, by an organisation that would rather have had passengers with no hand-baggage at all but was being pressured by the industry to allow some hand-baggage. So they deliberately chose a size that was smaller than most carry-on bags, on the assumption (probably a valid assumption) that at least in the short term many passengers would not go out and buy new bags and would thus be forced to check much more than they had done in the past. This limitation thus achieved their objectives of severely limiting hand-baggage by the back door, whilst still appearing to be sensitive to industry and passenger concerns.

Andy

[BRUpax]

That = "morons" to me Andy, because a more realistic size would not have made that much difference with regard to security whilst still ruling out some of the ridiculously large and bulky carry-ons that became OTT.

[masalaairlines]

What annoys me is the fact that you can currently fly into the UK (from most places) with the larger dimensions. So for example a businessman flying in from the continent to the UK for a day meeting with only a slightly abnormal laptop case (as I happen to own *) will not be stopped and will be fine flying in. Unless he has had the time to measure it, he will probably not even realise that his case will not be accepted on the way back, unless he checks it in! (and just who wants to do that?) :ugh:

* = mine happens to be 1.5cm too wide, but I would normally never have measured it, because I've always considered it to be tiny.

[172driver]

Just tell these morons (only word for them) what you think by writing to:

[email protected]

[Jetnoise UK]

As I understand it, the previous hand baggage max size was expressed as the sum of the three measurements. Can the new limits be used the same way - i.e. is a bag whose dimensions are less than 96 cm in total allowable?
Second question - are the checkin desks (LHR and LGW in particular) insisting that ALL hand baggage go in to the cages (or hastily assembled MDF boxes) to check compliance or is it done by sight judgement only?

Personal experience rather than theory would be helpful.

Cheers,
Jet.

[derekl]

i.e. is a bag whose dimensions are less than 96 cm in total allowable?


Precisely the point of my question in post #3 above. My case would be 90 cm in total dimensions.

[Sobelena]

45x36 is pretty much standard with most Samsonites. The question is: will the security jobsworth tolerate the extra 1cm? Do you dare risk it? I've purchased a Carlton model 42x34x15 just to be on the safe side.

[10secondsurvey]

Eastmids is correct in his explanation of the choice of hand luggage size.

The reason for the problem, is all down to the clowns at BAA who have over the years failed to adequately invest in security hardware, baggage systems and personnel, so when the sh*t hits the fan, they cannot cope.

Their way to deal with the situation is just to restrict the amount of hand baggage that can be taken on. The size limit is not for security reasons, it is simply because the clowns at BAA cannot cope with the intensive searches currently required with normal hand baggage levels.

This also explains why you can enter the UK with larger hand baggage, which has been screened somewhere else abroad. The size of the hand baggage is not a security issue per se, it is just because BAA cannot deal with screening it. Incompetence at it's worst.

It really is a f***ing joke for anyone in BAA to say they are doing all they can. It's all about profits for BAA, security comes way down their list of priorities.

I personally, will try to fly as little as possible until someone gets the finger out, and demands BAA sort it out, and I can travel with a very reasonable piece of cabin baggage.

Honestly, this country is a joke.

Rant over.

[Final 3 Greens]

I personally, will try to fly as little as possible until someone gets the finger out, and demands BAA sort it out, and I can travel with a very reasonable piece of cabin baggage.

If you are based there, you have little choice.

Those of us who do have a choice will vote with our feet.

[lexxity]

will the security jobsworth tolerate the extra 1cm?

At EGCC the answer is a definite and resounding NO! There is no discrection and no common sense applied at all.

[PAXboy]

This experience was, as they say, upclose and personal at LHR last Friday morning ... This was for a BA to TXL (Berlin) from T1 with an 08:50 departure.
Jetnoise UKAs I understand it, the previous hand baggage max size was expressed as the sum of the three measurements. Can the new limits be used the same way - i.e. is a bag whose dimensions are less than 96 cm in total allowable?

Second question - are the checkin desks (LHR and LGW in particular) insisting that ALL hand baggage go in to the cages (or hastily assembled MDF boxes) to check compliance or is it done by sight judgement only?

First The answer is NO!
Second The answer is YES!

If your bag does not fit in the reduced sized frame then you get sent back. When I reached the front of the queue to enter air side, there was a very polite woman checking bags into the frame. She was patient in helping people and very smartly saying, "If it doesn't fit in to the frame - they will send you back to check it in." Actually, No 'they ' would not as she was the one doing the sending!! But she was cleverly offsetting the potential arguments by making out that there lay some further size related screening ahead which, of course, I knew that there would not be!! Effectively, she was saying that there was no good complaining to her!

I had carefully measured by old computer bag at home and knew that it was within spec. When I put it into the frame it stuck up just above and she suggested that I try it horizontally. Jamming the bag in and out of the frame was not straightforward and so I also took her advice to see if there was something that could be rearranged. I took an item from the width of the bag (CD pack) and placed it nearer the top, so shrinking the bag's width. It then went in horizontally and I was off to enjoy the next part of the day.

There was one other unexpected side effect to all of this. Because many people had gone on-line to check details, many many more than usual had checked in on-line. The self-serve machines were almost empty and with no queues - because most folks had their print out in hand. This meant that there was a very long queue for the newly named SLOW BAG DROP. :}

As always, if you were polite to the staff, they were appreciative of a smile and sympathy. I would not have their job. In the end we were 30 minutes late out but no explanation as to why. The flight was not posted for a gate until almost time to push-back, so it looked like an unrelated delay but no one said a word.

On board was the usual pleasant BA experience (All Day Deli that tasted like ti was produced by MacDs) but the staff were as good as always.

Returning on Sunday evening was normal - except that the baggage hall at T1 was in melt down. Here a note I posted in another forum.

... Sunday 20th arriving into T1 from Berlin at about 21:00 ... the airport that was now 'running normally' certainly was!

The T1 baggage hall was awash with bags, dozens pulled off the carousels and sitting around on trolleys and cluttering up the hall, many with new routing labels on them.

The hall was packed and the escalator delivering more every minute. The indicator board (to advise which carousel) was full and four entries had several garbage characters so as to render the entry invalid. For example there is no carousel '54', although it might be helpful if they did have that many.

The board was not updated for nine minutes after I started watching it and then the four entries were replaced by 'Please Wait' for another eight minutes.

Yes, it was good to know that the airport was fully back to normal. Now to open the duty free ... and then :zzz:

[Jetnoise UK]

PAXboy - thanks for the concise reply - even though it was not what I wanted to hear! I have just checked my camera bag and it will squash down to within the required dimensions on the side that is 1cm too long. I do not want the camera in there when I do it though!
I understand that all electrical items have to be removed from the bag at security and x-rayed seperately. Therefore my digital camera and lenses will be removed in advance of the bag size check (to speed up the x-ray process of course :ok: ) thus allowing the bag to fit.

Can anybody confirm the arrangements at Gatwick are the same as those described at LHR - that the bag size check is done at security and not at check-in?

Cheers,
Jet.

[Dryce]

Nope, not by morons. The size was chosen, quite cleverly I believe
So cleverly that friends transiting via LHR from SE Asia
ended up having check in hand baggage.

Of course it got lost (along with their all their checked-in).
That was Saturday. The airline suggested they would deliver
the bags mid-day Tuesday. So they have made two trips to
the airport yeserday and today to find their bags. Today's
visit was in desperation as a result of the given help line
denying the existence of their last outstanding baggage. (Looks
like the system is overwhelmed as they were directed to search
for the last bags in a room of unprocessed bags).

When they do the trip again later this year they won't be
using a UK airport for transit or a UK airline.

So I would suggest that the jokers who set the rules
are in fact total morons. The industry is being damaged
and the UK looks like a sad third world shambles.

[derekl]

Soooo . . . the extra 1cm on my case will cause the plane to explode?

Is that right? In the name of God, what is going on?

Edit: I've now emailed the DfT to ask them that very question.

[EastMids]

When I said that they were not morons but were being clever, I didn't mean to imply that I agreed with them - I merely meant to point out that rather than setting an arbitary limit, they had set the sizes with a deliberate and calculated objective in mind. Whilst the ramifications of the size may indicate those who set it were moronic, I believe that the reasons they had for making the decision was far from that. IMHO, 10secondsurvey is absolutely spot on with the analysis of the underlying drivers for the decision, and I think its sad that the UK government has effectively allowed the commercial interests of the BAA to be one of the prime motivations for setting such limits.

Andy

[EastMids]

Soooo . . . the extra 1cm on my case will cause the plane to explode? Is that right? In the name of God, what is going on?
You realise it won't, Michael O'Leary realises it won't - hence his recent ranting. But sadly and as pointed out previously, that isn't the reason why the limit was set as it was.

Andy

[derekl]

Sorry, guys, I've lost interest in the reasons. The ruling and its blind enforcement to the last centimetre are plainly stupid and unconnected with my or anyone else's security.

I'll post the inevitably inane response from the Dft if our obedient civil servants ever deign to reply.

[PAXboy]

Glad to be of assistance Jetnoise UK ;)

As to the X-ray department ... on T1 international there were (if I recall correctly) 5 out of 6 machines running but don't quote me. We had to take laptops out and they went through in a separate tray. Shoes off as well for X-ing.

In the queue for checking bags into the cage, there were folks walking up and down to double check that you had nothing like cosmetics :uhoh: or hand cream :eek: but they would allow lip ice, I was told. Less worrying than lip stick? :hmm: All items were collected in bags and removed for ever. (Land fill or Ebay?) My niece returning from Paris had a tube of mascara confiscated.

The one 'smart' that I got away with was ... a set of wheels. My regular cabin bag is a standard 'approved' (how far away those words seem now) with wheels but I knew would not fit. So I got out an old computer bag and the strap-on wheels. The wheels were not ideal and I soon remembered why I was glad to give them up when I (literally) dusted them off.

On approaching The Cage, I slipped the wheels off the bag and folded them under my jacket. When I knelt down to wrestle the bag into the cage, the wheels were not seen. The bag squeezed in (earlier post) and then I picked up my jacket with the wheels inside. Once in the longer queue, I put the wheels inside the bag until through x-ray.

The wheels were not questioned - even though they made the bag outside the new dimensions. Once I had put my shoes back on, wheels on and away!

Oh yes, one last thing that went (accidentally) through the x-ray was a blade. Yes, a good old fashioned blade. :ooh: It might be only 4cm long but it can do a heck of a lot more damage than a bottle of hair gel ... :E

Once again my favourite quote ...
__________________
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[Jetnoise UK]

Derekl et al,
I emailed DfT (15:24 on 21/08/06) and received a reply (20:04 on 21/08/06) in a reassuringly quick time. Unfortunately the reply (and first my original email) is as follows:

"Dear Sir/Madam,
Before the existing restrictions were put in place, the maximum size of a
bag that could be carried on board was expressed as the sum of its three
dimensions. The new restrictions have only been given in the press and your web site as 45x35x16 cm. Does the same rule apply as before in that a bag is allowed as long as it is less than the sum of 45x35x16 (i.e. less than 96 cm)?

The reason I ask is that my camera bag is 45x36x9 - i.e. shorter in one
dimension (by 6 cm) but slightly larger (by 1 cm) in another and totalling
only 90 cm. I am obviously very reluctant to check in my camera as hold
baggage or replace the bag which was only purchased in May!

As I travel on the 5th September, a quick response would be most
appreciated."

The Reply:

"Thank you for contacting Transec.

The rules for the maximum size of cabin baggage are 45cm by 35cm by 16cm. Unfortunately, we do not allow any deviation from these measurements unless they are smaller.

Yours sincerely"
etc

Oh well, back to "Cunning Plan No. 3":E

Jet.

[derekl]

Thanks for that, Jetnoise.

We'll see if I get something similar.

[masalaairlines]

Just thought I would add my experiences to this matter after having just flown MAN-STR-MAN this weekend.

At my check in at MAN, I was told I must check in my (newly aquired) laptop case as it was "definately too big"! However this was only being done by a quick visual inspection by check in staff. Luckily, I had measured it, and did insist it fell within guidelines. Again I was politely told that the new restrictions in place would meen that it would have to go in the hold. At this point I asked if I could put it into the 'size cage' to show it was OK, but they replied saying they didn't have one and I would have to go to security to try it.... which I did... and where it fitted (of course).

Annoying though, for firstly being given wrong info, and then for not having the hardware in place to prove them wrong.

[spikeair]

This is still a problme for those of us who want to take camera gear on board.
I don't want to put it in tthe hold in case it is stolen or broken.(The arguemtn that it can be insured is not valid, if this is on the outbound trip , you are stuffed at your destination.) I certianly don't want to put film in the hold as that WILL be ruined by teh stronger x-rays that are used.
The amount of kit I persoanally take will just be outside of these dimensions, and because it is lots of hardware, will atract attention (I''m fine with that - I have no objections to a manual hand search)
I'm not keen on going digital at the moment as it will cost me upwards of £4000 to get the equivalent of what I have today.
I'm flying out to the fareast in November, if I can't take my camera gear as hand luggage, I will have no choice but to cancel teh trip as this is what I'm going out for - photography.BAA do not seem to have taken inot account photographers in these rules whats so ever.
Photography is jsut a hobby for me,but tehre will be professionals who will see this as being even more significant.

[172driver]

Question to recent flyers: are you allowed to squeeze a bag down a bit so it'll fit through these gates ? In other words, if you've got a soft bag that's perhaps a little bit too high (say, 17, 18 cms), but not full inside, are you allowed to squeeze it through ? Do you get to put your bag through the gate yourself or is one of the 'specialists' :yuk: doing this ?

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

Question to recent flyers: are you allowed to squeeze a bag down a bit so it'll fit through these gates ? In other words, if you've got a soft bag that's perhaps a little bit too high (say, 17, 18 cms), but not full inside, are you allowed to squeeze it through ? Do you get to put your bag through the gate yourself or is one of the 'specialists' :yuk: doing this ?

172, that happened to me last Friday at LHR T4. My bag was ever so slightly too big, but I stuffed it quickly into the cage myself (with a guy watching), and he let me through with it. This was after a previous visual check which allowed it. As you know, however, nothing is standard these days.....

[Jetnoise UK]

Spikeair,
Same problem here with camera gear. However, the Lowepro Slingshot 200AW camera bag that I purchased fits the bill (when empty) in all but one dimension and then it is only 1cm over - if I squeeze it, it should fit (I will find out in September when I fly out of Gatwick).
As I understand it, "electrical items" should be removed from the bag and x-rayed seperately. I intend to remove my camera and lenses from my bag for that very purpose immediately before putting the bag in the "size check cage" and then repack once through security. Naturally, I do this only to speed up the security & x-ray process for the benefit of all ;)

Cheers,
Jet.

[GANNET FAN]

Jetnoise
You post to Derek et al, I guess I must be a bit slow here as I thought I read the reply from the jobsworth that 96cms or smaller is acceptable. You have 90 cms. I suppose it would be like f.rting against thunder to argue this at the time.
Nevertheless, as I'm flying out in a months time, all the posts here are extremely informative and helpful.
Thanks

[Jetnoise UK]

I have interpreted the official response as being that the 45x35x16 restrictions apply in the stated dimensions and that any bag must meet all three dimensional restrictions (or be less). Unfortunately the old system of totalling them and using that as the limit was far too simple and flexible for them!
As has already been hinted, I believe that the new measurements are a sop to the business traveller who can not bear to be parted from their laptop (as they create a great deal of revenue) whereas the common or garden passenger (such as someone going on holiday and wishes to take photographs with a half decent camera kit) is not important in the grand scheme of things. The more cynical may suggest that the DfT team all have shares in Samsonite and Pelican!:}

[GANNET FAN]

Thanks for yours. I'm flying to Nice (for the 4th time this year) on biz for a couple of days, this time for the Monaco Boat Show and I was thinking of using my laptop case in lieu of my normal carry on, especially as I shall have my new JVC HD camera with me. I guess I shall just have to measure it carefully. Its extremely difficult to remain polite and calm when faced with officialdom at the best of times but as mentioned here earlier, it probably does more good than harm

I love cynical.
JC

[BRUpax]

Jetnoise says: The more cynical may suggest that the DfT team all have shares in Samsonite and Pelican!

Not so sure about that. As mentioned above somewhere, many Samsonites are 36cm wide, which technically makes them 1cm above the requirements. Don't know about Pelican.

[weselfluren]

Sorry for being a bit thick here:ugh: ..... but what's the actual difference in the handluggage sizes going to do for my security? I don't know how to make too many kinds of explosive, but I'm sure a clever Chemisty Graduate could put something nasty in the new size hand luggage (or the hold) despite the new baggage size... after all, our boffins were putting C4 and other nasties into pencils, cowpats and knockwurst sausages:} in the 40's.

So why all the fuss/delay/agro on the new sizes/limits? I'm emigrating to Oz in a few weeks and want to take as much with me - and it goes without saying that I'll smell pretty bad by the time I get there without the Lynx/toothbrush etc in my handluggage!!!

I just don't get it at all....:oh:

WF

[TheSailor]

Hello,

Dura lex sed lex.........
You have other solutions instead complain here...(useless complains BTW..)
No fly at all.........
Make a meeting in the street ..and complain about the new laws...
(hunger strike is also appreciated if performed in departure halls)
Persuade a entire flight passengers to make strike in front of a security check point...
And so one.....but certainly the solution is not there.....
BTW..I travell regulary with NO LUGGAGES AT ALL....and I'm many time considered as suspect!! ROFL.

Regards.

[Globaliser]

Sorry for being a bit thick here:ugh: ..... but what's the actual difference in the handluggage sizes going to do for my security?
..
I'm emigrating to Oz in a few weeks and want to take as much with me - and it goes without saying that I'll smell pretty bad by the time I get there without the Lynx/toothbrush etc in my handluggage!!!I think the idea is that a thinner bag makes it easier for the scanner drivers to see what's inside, reducing the number of bags that have to be hand searched; and smaller bags are faster to hand search, when they have to be.

The solution to your problem is to give yourself an extra 10 minutes so that you can pop into Boots after security. Then you can take your purchases onto the aircraft. You may want to check to see what the security arrangements are for your transit/transfer points, too, to see where (if at all) you're going to have to give up your purchases if you take them off the aircraft.

[MyData]

FYI - at MAN (BMI) they have cardboard boxes at the check-in desks, and probably do at BA desks too. If your bag doesn't fit, it goes in the hold. No exceptions.

Note that it is a cardboard box. So with a bit of pushing and shoving my laptop bag could be made to fit.

Get in the queue for boarding passes and there is another box which looks much more rigid - made of metal or perhaps tough plastic. A security chap there is zealously looking for bags which might be the 1cm too large and if it doesn't fit it is back to the check-in queue. As my 'backpack' style bag was just about squeezable into the cardboard box I was getting a bit concerned that I'd have to return to the back of the queues. Fortunately someone else was picked out and I made it past the dreaded size testing device. They were being very, very, strict here with absolutely no exceptions.

The next day at LHR on my return I noticed similar boxes with wooden looking frames. Again, if it doesn't fit, it isn't going in the cabin.

This means that it isn't total dimensions that count, it is the very specific height, width and depth. And studs / wheels / straps etc have to fit in there too.

I notice a *lot* of 'slim' cabin luggage, which is about half the size of the traditional cabin cases, having to be checked in.


Next week I've a day return MAN<->LHR booked. I'm considering taking no laptop and just using my wit and charm for the meetings I'm attending. It could be a liberating experience!

[weselfluren]

I could pop into Boots Globaliser...... but problem is we're flying the nice US route, thinking we'd be clever and get the extra baggage allowance for emigration.... that also means we've got a 30hr+ flight in total.

Unless the rules change in the next two weeks, we won't be allowed to take any "liquids" on board to or from the US, including toothpaste and deoderants := . I hope the airlines are offering these to all PAX when onboard the plane, not just business or 1st - I know it always whiffs on the plane, but it'll need quarantining by the time it lands in Adelaide at this rate!:E The nice chaps at border control are welcoming enough in states without me smelling/looking like I'm related to Worzel Gummidge...

Last three times I flew to Oz, Quantas (2000) and Malaysian (2003&4), there were no "comfort packs" - didn't notice any being offered on KLM flight to JFK in January eiher.

Size issue still seems a bit OTT IMHO - but although I'm not an expert on x-ray machines or scanning devices, I do know that you'd need a nice sheet of lead in your case to stop the x-ray passing through and giving a reading. Paid attention in a physics class once all those years ago..... seems to whiff like an opportunity to cut baggage sizes down a bit.

Smelly theme emerging here!

WF

[GANNET FAN]

At the risk of being told, "for heavens sake boy pay attention" I can't remember if I'm allowed to take my mobile phone or has it got to go in the checked in case.
Can some one please advise
Thanks
JC

[BA-BEANCOUNTER]

You can take your mobile on board.
It's best to check BAA.com as the advice has changed over the past week on other items e.g. On Saturday we were told Lipsticks were OK, now it's no cosmetics at all.


(and I'll work out how to edit the title so that my lousy spelling doesn't show me up)

[Boss Raptor]

As commented by some previous posters...

...And when will the Airport Operators actually invest properly the Security Surcharge that most of them have apparently been pocketing over the last few years...

Get all the security lines fully open, fully staffed, fully operational etc. etc. LHR/LGW I have never seen this happen - dont hold/inconvenience me and/or my customers in long lines as YOU the airport operator cant provide a fundamental service/task to the levels required by yr throughput YOU the airport operator charge me the airline (and so the customer) for every head so about time you provided the required true capacity per head

5 years of bsh!t excuses from them as to why they cant/how etc. is getting a bit thin

On the actual point of hand luggage size as an operator I am all for restrictions albeit this one does seem a tad to small - I am sick and tired of finding my bins broken and/or full with giant holdalls and other such items (particularly apparent in the USA it seems)

[goshdarnit]

Has anyone traveled ex CWL recently? How are they handling the situation? (I.e., to the letter or with a little bit of flexibility?)
I figure that going out of a smaller regional airport may make it easier?

GDI

[RevMan2]

Airlines haven't been able to get a grip on cabin luggage (sorry, pun absolutely unintentional) for years and they're rather happy that someone else has disappeared the "creepage" problem for it.

Which is why they're keeping a v. low profile on it.

Let's face it - the situation was utterly out of control. No-one along the process chain wanted to get into the customer's face - Check-in doesn't want discussions (even if they see the passenger), security (had) - with a few exceptions, such as SIN - no remit, boarding control is likely a handling agent and the crew gets to manage the chaos during boarding.

Which results in one finding no overhead locker space in shorthaul Biz (because the Eco pax who boarded first stuffed the bins en passant) or being among the last 10 to board and being told - this in the States - that I can't carry anything apart from a newspaper because rivets were popping out of the skin.

A sensible size would have been nice, but don't hold your collective breaths...

[The late XV105]

45x36 is pretty much standard with most Samsonites. The question is: will the security jobsworth tolerate the extra 1cm? Do you dare risk it? I've purchased a Carlton model 42x34x15 just to be on the safe side.

Not at STN yesterday; the guy in front was made to leave the security queue and check in his hand baggage exactly for this reason; the extra 1cm and rigid design of the case precluded it from fitting in the new, specially made, gauges that sit inside the orginal ones.

My soft and squidgy laptop bag, only half full, could however easily be "pursuaded" to fit (42x35X19 squashed down to 42x35x16) so I was allowed to take it through.

[Globaliser]

I could pop into Boots Globaliser...... but problem is we're flying the nice US route
...
Last three times I flew to Oz, Quantas (2000) and Malaysian (2003&4), there were no "comfort packs" - didn't notice any being offered on KLM flight to JFK in January eiher.

Size issue still seems a bit OTT IMHO - but although I'm not an expert on x-ray machines or scanning devices, I do know that you'd need a nice sheet of lead in your case to stop the x-ray passing through and giving a reading.That is bad luck, then.

You should have had an amenity pack on Qantas. I can't remember what was in them back then, but they were definitely there.

As for the scanning, it's always instructive to look at the screens, if you can. You can now see what a thin bag looks like, and then you can just imagine how much worse it is when you've got a thick bag to look through. I sometimes have to put quite big bags through the X-ray scanner in one of the buildings where I work, and watching the screen when they come through is interesting.

[flybhx]

Looking at a number of bags I've measured up a size of 45 x 35 x20 would probably have caused far less hassle for everyone. It still keeps the huge rucksacks and rollaboards under control but allows for at least a reasonable chance for a camera bag

[PAXboy]

Oh dear, flybhx, I'm afraid that you are making the usual mistake of thinking sensibly and logically.:=

Now go to the back of the queue and check in your head at the Quick Brain Drop and I don't want to see any more of your intelligent suggestions in a British airport. :E

[flybhx]

Sorreeeeeeeee,

I'm used to flying from non BAA airports where people are intended to fly from not a shopping centre with big strips of concrete round them:ouch:

[patdavies]

Here's a question for you gurus.

I suffer from sleep aponea; I have an airpump and mask that I must wear whilst sleeping.

When I have previously flown, prior to the current restrictions, I have been allowed this piece of medical equipment as additional carry-on baggage. I would never check it a hold baggage as it is too fragile and I would be stuffed if it were damaged or missing on arrival.

In its carry case, it is too big to fit into the new size restrictions - so the option of only taking the pump etc. as the only piece of hand baggage would seem a non- starter.

So can I still fly, or do I start planning UK/Europe only for holidays. My boss will not be amused if I can no longer fly to NI on business, but have to take the car ferry...

[PAXboy]

patdavies Do you normally have to pre-notify the carrier of the CPAP machine, or are these now well enough known that you can just turn up with it?

Either way, write to the carrier (a thankless and pointless task I know) and also the Department for Transport. You will find an email address for them in one of the main threads in this (SLF) forum, or a generous pax will re-post that info here.

[Jetnoise UK]

Pat,
A similar question was raised on a different forum during the total ban on hand luggage. The passenger (they were travelling long haul and required the CPAP on-board) called the airline (BA) and received a letter authorising the carriage of medical equipment required for the flight.
I do not know the details of your journey (whether you require it during the flight or do not wish to risk damage in the hold) but suspect that a similar approach would be beneficial (unless you are flying RyanAir :E ).

Cheers,
Jet.

[A2QFI]

How is the size of carry on luggage imagined to be a factor in a real or imagined terrorist threat? If BAA say that it IS relevant then why is the 'old' size carry on stuff being permitted on what is supposed to be the most threatened route = UK to USA? Aplogies if this has been asked and/or replied to elsewhere.

[PAXboy]

Now, Now A2QFI, I have already had to warn flybhx for trying to think logically and this begins to look dangerously like you have caught this infection too. :p ;)
How is the size of carry on luggage imagined to be a factor in a real or imagined terrorist threat? Earlier in this thread (or another like it) the view was put that BAA wanted thinner baggage, so that the screening was quicker. This due to the screener being able to see into the bags more easily and thus fewer ones being opened.

As to the thicker bags being carried on flights into the UK and UK~USA flights? I refer the honourable reader to my earlier reply. :}

[Globaliser]

If BAA say that it IS relevant then why is the 'old' size carry on stuff being permitted on what is supposed to be the most threatened route = UK to USA?It isn't. UK -> US flights are subject to the same size restriction as anywhere else. The restrictions on what you can carry are more stringent than for flights to anywhere else (ie you cannot carry on liquids etc bought airside), plus there are extra gate security checks to trap this.

[A2QFI]

Globaliser - my apologies. I now see that hand luggage size is unrestricted TO UK from USA but that all flights ex-UK are subject to the new and ill-thought thru size limits!

[Globaliser]

No worries!

The sizing difference is irritating. I'm very much hoping that the UK can reinstate the old "standard" size for ex-UK flights, as the difference between the old and new sizes pretty much makes all the difference between being able to pack cabin baggage only for a weekend away, and not.

[EastMids]

Earlier in this thread (or another like it) the view was put that BAA wanted thinner baggage, so that the screening was quicker. This due to the screener being able to see into the bags more easily and thus fewer ones being opened.

Don't believe that for one moment. I used to carry a bag much wider than 6" on my typical weekly trips, and in the last two years I have NEVER been asked to open it at security despite it containing a lap top, mobile phones, iPod, digital SLR camera, several metal bodied lenses, several power supplies, plug adapters, connection cables, CD drive, spare batteries, etc, etc.

In any case, your argument merely backs up the point. Instead of investing in more resources to ensure throughput is maintained, the easier (read cheaper) option of making things less convenient for passengers has been chosen. I appreciate extra resources cannot just be turned on like a tap, but years of under-investment in equipement and resources are now being laid bare.

Andy

[Avman]

years of under-investment in equipement and resources are now being laid bare.

Just about sums up the entire UK transport industry! The UK is fast becoming a third world country.

[DespairingTraveller]

I'm travelling LHR-DME shortly. I'm a keen amateur photographer for whom, to be honest, a major purpose of leisure travel anywhere out of the UK is photography. The current restrictions are giving me serious problems, as I'm sure most here appreciate.

I gather from this thread that all bags are being size checked, and if you're 1 cm over, back you go. However can someone enlighten me as to whether there are still trays for wallets, keys, loose change etc?

The guidance says nothing may be carried in pockets, and only one bag is allowed. But does this mean literally everything must be in the bag when you arrive at security?

I'm not trying to carry a load of lenses through in my pockets :) : I'm talking about wallet, keys, passport, travel docs, mobile phone etc. Normal, sensible, pocket contents. These regs are so stupidly tight that leaving space for those is actually significant, and so would need to be planned for.

[radeng]

Despairing,
A week ago last Friday (August 18), my bag was too fat because things had slid down inside - this was 'London's Hell', otherwise LHR T4. I was told to carry my calculator and wallet, to let it flatten. No problems. Similarly at LHR T1 on the 28th. You can throw your keys, change etc in the tray - or at least, they let me.
Not trusting airlines to deliver baggage, that bag (I travel a lot) has a spare shirt, socks, underwear and a razor. I'd forgotten there was toothpaste and a aerosol shaving cream in there, too. LHR T4 didn't find it. PHX security didn't find it on August 20. San Diego did, on August 26.
The somewhat amusing one was when I said I had a torch in the bag. Almost had the FBI called for on the spot! Eventually I realised why they had a problem and explained that in English 'torch' means 'flashlight'.
The joys of a common language.......
And Avman, I think the UK has already become a thrid world country, with third world bureaucracy. The only thing not obviously present is third world corruption.

[GANNET FAN]

Oh I don't know Radeng, you could try the Dome for starters

[DespairingTraveller]

Despairing,
You can throw your keys, change etc in the tray - or at least, they let me.
Not trusting airlines to deliver baggage, that bag (I travel a lot) has a spare shirt, socks, underwear and a razor.......

And Avman, I think the UK has already become a third world country, with third world bureaucracy. The only thing not obviously present is third world corruption.Thanks, radeng, that helps. I usually have all the extras as well, but I'm just going to have to stink this time! Photos or personal hygiene, no contest.

I think we'd be better off if we were a third world country in some ways. We've got the worst of all worlds now - pointless bureaucracy and no way of oiling your path around it.....

I know this is preaching to the choir, but if this situation doesn't improve, the airline business is likely going to hurt badly. To be honest, if my trip wasn't already bought and paid for, I wouldn't be travelling. And I'm very dubious about any future pleasure trips. I just don't want the hassle.

And I'm not Johnny-stay-at-home, who doesn't like flying. I've travelled extensively for pleasure and business over the years, and hold a PPL. I like being in aircraft! I'm just sick of the (UK) airport experience.

[1DC]

Mrs 1DC is sure she heard someone say on a news programme that the old baggage rules would be reintroduced in the next two weeks, that was about a week ago. Does anyone know if this is a possibilty??

[docash1983]

:ugh: Hi guy's
I travel on Sat and the cabin baggage restrictions of of 45cm x 35cm x x 16cm confuses me slightly. I have a JanSport back pack which I intend to use. If the bag is not bulging and thus would just about meet requirements would they then allow it if it is minutely over in height or width? as i have no idea the way in which they measure these bags If anybody has any knowledge of this I would be most appreciative. Also what is the process with hold luggage and pressurised cans such as deoderant etc, I was always lead to believe that this was under no circumstances to be placed in the hold because of the pressure, any thoughts?

[speeddial]

docash,

From reading this thread there is zero tolerance for over-sized bags, if it doesn't fit in their cut out it's got to be checked in.


A question for all,

Please can people share the makes and models of bags which have actually passed through the new size restrictions?

[DespairingTraveller]

docash,

A question for all,

Please can people share the makes and models of bags which have actually passed through the new size restrictions?Especially camera bags!! I simply can't find one, because they are all made with pockets on the front, which make them too deep. (Except for bags which are too small, because they are only intended for tiny cameras, that is.)

[A2QFI]

I was in an "Antler" luggage shop last week, looking for something to meet the new idiot regs, and bought a Revelation Lap Top computer case which does meet the new size limits and was either £15.95 or £19.95 They measured it in the shop and it was JUST in limits on all dimensions. 43 cm Framed Computer case Ref 3300743. It has a large main enclosure for a computer and a deep but slim outer pocket which would take A4 documents.

[radeng]

I'd like to take a tape measure to their funny boxes.
But exactly how strict they are if the bag will fit while you carry your wallet may depend whether you've got fast track (actually, not quite so slow track)or not.
Best airport I've been through recently was Nice. Through security like a dose of salts, all very pleasant, efficient, plenty of security people actually doing their job of checking things, two gates open. Earlier on in the year, actually got wished 'happy birthday' by passport control there!
Arlanda T2 are usually pretty good, too.

[Globaliser]

If the bag is not bulging and thus would just about meet requirements would they then allow it if it is minutely over in height or width? as i have no idea the way in which they measure these bagsThe gauges are made of plywood or fibreboard and are solid-sided. So, basically, if you can squash your bag into the gauge, it will be accepted. If you can't, it'll be rejected. Last weekend, I managed to "persuade" my soft bag to get half way into the gauge. It was clear that further "encouragement" could have got it all the way in, but the staff member manning that position said it wouldn't be necessary to do that as it was obvious that it would fit. So at least some sanity is being applied, even if on a micro level.Also what is the process with hold luggage and pressurised cans such as deoderant etc, I was always lead to believe that this was under no circumstances to be placed in the hold because of the pressure, any thoughts?On most aircraft, the hold is pressurised exactly the same as the cabin, so pressure alone won't cause a problem. But there are some other restrictions on what you can put into hold baggage because it's unattended, so carefully check the list of items prohibited from hold baggage.

[Emeraude]

Original posting was 45x35x16 - What a ridiculous set of measurements! And so they are. 45? Ok. 35? Ok But 16....? Where does that come from?

[zed3]

uuurm.....15 plus one bonus cm.

[derekvader]

Original posting was 45x35x16 - What a ridiculous set of measurements! And so they are. 45? Ok. 35? Ok But 16....? Where does that come from?

Well the standard Dell laptop bag just fits inside those dimensions so maybe that's what they happened to have to hand when they dreamed the dimensions up.

[skydriller]

Originally Posted by Emeraude
Original posting was 45x35x16 - What a ridiculous set of measurements! And so they are. 45? Ok. 35? Ok But 16....? Where does that come from?

I seem to recall someone somewhere posted to the effect that these measurements were specificly chosen so that most current hand baggage pax have would be too big...:hmm:

.... meaning it all now gets checked it, meaning it no longer has to be hand searched, meaning less time to search everyone, meaning, less employees required to do searches.... etc.....etc...

Cynic? Moi?:yuk:

Regards, SD..

[42ongo]

Further to various threads went to FRA from LHR 2 days ago
squashed my bulging bag (Dell Laptop tye ) in the gauge in front of airlines own staff at check in area
are these guages cheap and cheerful or what ?
When I was met by the people in front of departures entrance checking I had no liquids they said my bag was too big
I said I ve already checked it at the airline guage and they believed me although they had another gauge there
they did not make me put the bag in again
judging by their spotiness I guess they are outsourced employeees (temps) rather than BAA employess
Once I got past these 5 or 6 people the actual security process was suprisingly quick and only held up by idiots messing around with phones, coins, wallets, keys, etc in their pockets jackets etc once they got to the front of the queue
why not make sure people have nothing in their pockets at the initial challenge
There was also a few people moaning about having to take their shoes off
why not ask people to loosen their shoes at the initial challenge as well ?
Also how about providing some shoe horns after the security screening
As regards the BAA they had axed some security staff prior to the terrorist
threat and just like BA last year they are paying the price for not having sufficient contingency in place for the busy period
On my return the security queue at FRA was very long and although professionally dealt with took an age
The lady next to me in the queue thought she was going to have all her liquids confiscated again just like at LHR but she was allowed to take it all on
me too I was allowed to take on the toothpaste anti perspirant and shaving cream and gel that I bought airside at LHR
Also spent 30 mins waiting for my passport check (in the EU national queue) on arrival back to Terminal 2
A short business trip from LHR is a real pain these days and I can t see it getting any better

[computer jockey]

I must admit when I travelled out from EDI on my way to India last Friday afternoon, it was relatively painless. When I went upstairs to the security, we were met by 2 efficient BAA staff, each guarding one of those chipboard boxes which look like they have been made in carpentry evening-classes. Anything obviously small was waved through, everything else was stuffed in the box. My rucksack got stuffed in, but passed, others were made to return to check in (with much cursing sotto voce). Past the regular ticket/boarding card check and into the "sheep pen" of taped lanes. There was not much queue so we had to quite a bit of walking up and down through the maze (much to the amusement of two Italian ladies ahead of me). To my amazement all the x-ray machines were working and there were another 2 security staff organising the lines and making sure everyone knew that they had to take off jackets, shoes and belts. I shuffled along in my socks, holding my trousers up with one hand and my belongings in another, soon through the screening, pat down and retrieved my stuff. Whole thing did not take much longer than the old days. And, they had thoughtfully provided comfy chairs and shoe horns to put your shoes back on.
All in all, not bad, but then when I arrived in BOM, my checked bag didn't :suspect:.
Turned up a couple of days later, but that's another story.

[42ongo]

Mike tks for the info re IRIS
I have walked past the IRIS office a few times and wondered what they are doing in there
this service had not been too well publicised I remember someone throwing a pamphlet at me last year sometime
Also as far as I understand you can only use it in Terminal 2 and 4
whereas I usually go from 3 and 1 do you know if this is true
Also I did not noitce the IRIS readers where are they in relation to the immigration desks in Terminal 2 ?
I saw they also have a similar thing in CDG does IRIS work there do you know ?
Thanks in advance

[PAXboy]

Perhaps the best part of the new bag regs and searches is the inconsistency from one airport to another.

Going through LTN (for IOM) yesterday and I was not asked to remove the belt that I was asked to remove at LHR three weeks earlier. Cameras may, or may not, cause concern. When I return on Monday, I know that the inspection on IOM departure is very strict and they remove more belts and open a lot of bags. Naturally, they tell me that they all work to the same standards and if other airports do not inspect as closely as they do, then that must be laxity on their part, rather than IOM being too strict. :=

Also, a 3.5cm blade (and VERY sharp) also went through again (by accident) but it is in my shoulder bag and goes through because the shape of the blade is non conventional.

Fortunately, I did remember to take out of my bag a metal tube of Anthisan (anti-itch cream for insect bites) and so my fellow pax were safe. Phew ...

[Globaliser]

Beat all the queues upon arrival! :ok:If it's working. This morning, arriving from JFK on one of those everything-went-wrong-and-I-just-want-to-get-out-of-here-and-get-going flights, the penultimate fly in the ointment was that IRIS wasn't working at T4. (The last one was the sloooow Tube trains into town.) Hey ho.Similar quote at LGW a couple of months ago.

T2 - IIRC, it's on the far left side of the immigration arrival area, & T4 it's on the far right.I've not seen it myself, but I've seen reports that IRIS is now up and running at LGW North.

Sorry to contradict, but I think that it's at T1 that the IRIS machine is to the very far right, against the wall and beyond even the Fast Track desk. (Thus you have to explain yourself to the queue dragon, although decreasingly often now that they're getting the hang of IRIS' existence.)

At T4, the machine is situated immediately to the right of the EU queue, between that and the "others" area.

[Man-on-the-fence]

Have just spent all morning packing and repacking my camera bag.

It is a small rucksack and will fit all dimenstiosn except the 16cm, it will fit at a squeeze. It currently sits on the table in a relaxed state at 16.5-17cm but I can squash it to 16cm and feel confident that it will fit, but you never know! I have tried everything, velco on the internal pockets and external straps.

Anyone with any first hand experiance of whether this will be ok at LHR T3. I am travelling with United on Thursday.

[spikeair]

I'm in the same position. going out to the far east in november. my camera gear (f5 , 28-70 f2.8 and 80-200 f2.8) will I suspect just fit in a non camer rucksack. Not ideal , but this jsut to get it through security. I will put a proper camer ruck sack in my main luggage to use to carry the gear around whislt out there.I'd like to take a bit more kit but its jsut not going to fit and I don't want to risk putting it in the hold.
Youre right the 16cm bit is really not good. I belive it is to keep security checking times to a minimum and theyhave to draw the line somewhere, but I don't feel it will take any longer to search a bag a few more inches higher will it?
Camer gear anyway is likely to be searched anyway (I've no issue with that).
Come on BAA, make the bag size more reasonable and for those of us buying premium tickets, let use take a bit more on board. Whats the point of fasttrack otehrwise?

[EastMids]

Anyone with any first hand experiance of whether this will be ok at LHR T3. I am travelling with United on Thursday.
Same response as on UKAR - if it will squash down into the rigid 16cm gauge you will be OK. I have a Lowepro MiniTrekker AW and had to make sure that the backstraps were round the sides to make it fit, but it did go in the gauge. In the event, no one at UA checkin or T3 security asked me to actually prove it fitted into the gauge - when I was asked at checkin I said I'd tried it and they accept my word, but I had checked beforehand because I wanted to be sure in case I was challenged. I guess whether or not you are asked to prove your bag will go into the gauge could depend on the staff on the day, and I also admit I was travelling biz class and it might just be possible that they're going slightly easier on premium pax both at checkin and in the fast-track security (I didn't see anyone in fast track sent back for bagsize, and although none were huge a few didn't look like they'd make 16cm). Anyways, my bag looked big but I knew it would fit, just, so it wasn't an issue of concern.

Everything went very quickly in T3 for me last Tuesday - I arrived early and was in the lounge less than 30 minutes after walking through the terminal door - but the couple behind me at the gate said it'd taken them over an hour and a half to get through T3 standard security. I had to take the laptop out of the bag (yes, that was in the bag with the cameras too), but the the camera gear, the iPod and mobile phone stayed in the bag through the x-ray machine and didn't get hand-checked. UA were letting people onto the plane with a second bag - I had bought a book and some other stuff airside - and there was no bag size check at the gate.

Andy

[skydriller]

There was a bit on the BBC last night saying these stupid restrictions will be lifted in the UK next week, and hand baggage security rules are going back to normal.....:D

......I sincerely hope so, but there were few specific details on the news peice, and I dont want to raise anyones hopes too far just yet!!:suspect:

Regards, SD..

[docash1983]

Hi,
I am due to fly out of Las Palmas this evening back to BHX. Does anybody know whether the UK hand baggage restrictions apply in Gran Canaria for UK bound passengers?:ugh: any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Docash1983

[BRUpax]

No, they only apply outbound UK.

[Globaliser]

Sunday Times article (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2361659,00.html) says that UK airports will move from 45cm x 35cm x 16cm probably to 56cm x 45cm x 25cm (ie pretty much the standard bag size pre-kerfuffle), limited amounts of liquids through security checkpoints, announcement tomorrow (Monday) and in force Friday.

If so, the carpenters are going to be busy on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, making new sizer boxes. Job for life!

[lexxity]

Oh I do hope so, life will be so much easier again, not just for us on check in, but for our passengers too. No doubt though, as Globaliser says, they will have to make new boxes.

Oh lovely, new cardboard boxes on our desks.:p

[Man-on-the-fence]

Well I went through with no problem. Why? Because no-one checked the size of my bag!!!!

Utterly pointless

[masalaairlines]

:ok: Just confirmed on the beeb today as well. From Friday we are back to the good old days. (well almost!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5367096.stm

[Globaliser]

Nope, still only one item of cabin luggageThat is back to normal for most of us! Now the airside shops are likely to start getting more business out of me. If I can pack a bag for a weekend, I will no longer check in anything at all, and will therefore start to buy toothpaste etc at the shops. (I was just bringing my own when I had to check a bag anyway.)

[Globaliser]

True, but if you fly almost every week, sometimes more, like I do (& some business pax fly 2 - 3 times a week from UK airports), then that's a lot of toothpaste, aftershave, shaving foam, deodorant & other liquid/gel goodies that will mount up back at home!!
...
I still don't follow the logic (or lack of it!) to explain why there are no such restrictions (or very limited ones) for flights that operate from European (& other) countries into UK airspace. Why is it that your shaving foam is deemed dangerous when you take-off over London, but not when landing??!! :confused:Agreed if you're a frequent traveller. Although I suspect that most of those who fly 3 times a week aren't stopping overnight on every trip. ;)

As for why we have the restrictions, my best guess is that it's because the terrorists are here, not there. But as time goes on, and the possibility increases of a more sophisticated replacement plot that involves first travelling overseas to take advantage of less stringent security regulations, the differential will become harder to justify.

[Phileas Fogg]

I'm travelling next Monday so what exactly may I expect, I can travel with my regular size hand baggage that would normally contain everything I need for my trip but my toothpaste and deodorant must be checked into the hold?

What is the point and if so, I guess that I'll turn up with my hand laggage as normal and with a pathetic little paper bag containing my toothpaste and deodorant, I can just imagine the baggage trolley on it's way out to the aircraft only loaded with toothpaste & deodorant.

And if there is a 'Boots the Chemist' in the departures hall, has all their toothpaste & deodorant been security cleared?

[Phileas Fogg]

Greetings Mike,
We actually know each other, an acquaintance that terminated on Friday the 13th September 2002 :)

Having worked in aviation for 30+ years I fully respect aviation security but this really is bordering on the ridiculous, we can check-in with our hand baggage as normal but we need to arrive with a 'doggy bag' of deodorant & toothpaste.

I'm actually laughing at such a scenario of the baggage handlers taking out 150 ish doggy bags, no suitcases, to the aircraft, each and every one of which could contain an explosive device, that's the doggy bags, not the handlers :)

[172driver]

well, looks like sense is returning

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2368362,00.html

according to this it's pretty much back to where we were before this whole idiocy

[Phileas Fogg]

From Friday 22nd September 2006, hand baggage rules will be as follows:

One item of hand baggage
Maximum height, width and depth of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm
Maximum weight of 7kg
Please note that the DFT have advised that the following security measures still apply:

Liquids: restrictions remain in place, meaning no liquids of any type can be taken through the airport security point. The only exceptions to this are, essential medicines in liquid form and baby milk and baby food. Passengers will be required to provide authenticity of liquid medicines and each bottle / jar of baby milk/food must be tasted by the accompanying passenger.

For clarification, liquids include the following: aerosols, deodorant, drinks, hair gel and wax, perfume, shaving foams and gels, soups, syrups and toothpaste.

[172driver]

Phileas,

Sorry, this is incorrect. Below from the DfT website:

Cabin Baggage

ONE item only of cabin baggage is permitted through the airport security search point, the dimensions of this item must not exceed: a maximum length of 56 cm, width of 45 cm and depth of 25 cm (including wheels, handles, side pockets etc.). Other bags, such as handbags, may be carried within the single item of cabin baggage. All items carried by passengers will be x-ray screened.


The link to the page is here

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_about/documents/page/dft_about_612280.hcsp

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I use my lap top to create music, it is a vital musical instrument to myself and many others.

Can I therefore claim the new carry on allowance "bag", as well as my musical lap top....

Glf

[Globaliser]

What is the point and if so, I guess that I'll turn up with my hand laggage as normal and with a pathetic little paper bag containing my toothpaste and deodorant, I can just imagine the baggage trolley on it's way out to the aircraft only loaded with toothpaste & deodorant.Just the one bag to check, sir? (http://i10.tinypic.com/2e5rzer.jpg) :)

[lexxity]

Well your bag obviously made it. :p :p

I tell you what, those of us on checkin have discovered some interesting and creative ways of packing small items recently. Old boardingcard box? Ideal for putting bottles of perfume in. Old leaflet box? Ideal for packing the entire contents of an expensive handbag in. Packing said boxes with bin liners as protection. Yep, no bother.:ok:

[flufdriver]

I do want to thank all of you for bringing this issue to the attention of those of us who would normally pass through London when doing intercontinental traveling, henceforth I will avoid passing through there if at all possible.

Exersizing that option will however force me to go through the US which I can also do without as they have similarly silly rules. The difference is however, that the saviors of mankind who staff the security checkpoints in the US, tend to be a little less anal then their UK counterparts.

But of course, like everything else this issue too has an upside! Commercial aviation is being slowly throttled to death, this will greatly reduce the dexhaust emissions in the atmosphere, which hopefully will have a positive influence on global warming.

I wish everyone an enjoyable Christmas ( and if you don't celebrate that festive holiday you can simply ignore this sentence as logically it does not apply to you) :}