Who flies faster: AC's A320 vs WJ's B737-700

[anybodyatall]

Just curious...

Anyone know if Air Canada's A320s and Westjet's B737-700/800 both (in general) are set to cruise at about the same mach speed i.e. .79 on cross-country flights within Canada?

(I say set to cruise i.e. corporate policy for pilots to select a prefered speed rather than a possibly higher technically feasible speed).

I'm interested to know given this day and age of high fuel prices -- and economizing. And I jokingly say in order to know which might be the "faster airline" ;-)

[Jerricho]

I can tell you on final that both get run over by PA31s......:E ;)

[meaw]

The 320's usually cruise at .78 or .79 .Don't know about the 737's though I know that when we have one ahead of us we get slowed down considerably so I would guess they are not as fast.

[jdp911]

Don't quite know what it would be prior to $75 oil, can't remember since it's been about 2 years since the cost index has been over 25, but the 73 typically cruises at .78 at a c.i. of 22-24

[Dream Land]

Jerricho, just to give you a small bit of information, the top speed of a Navajo is 180 KTS on a good day, approach speed on the average weight A320 would be 140 KTS by 4 to 5 miles from touch down, faster than a 777 or 747. :ok:

[CanAV8R]

737 NG's are as fast or faster as the A320. I know this cuz I fly a faster bird than both and we pass 320's all the time (especially in the climb) but the NG's are usually able to almost keep up. Must be the cost index is so low that its flying artificially slow.

[zzjayca]

There are always exceptions. (A/C increasing speed to meet connections, A/C slowing down for turbulence). But, generally the A320/319/321, and 737-600 or later all fly at the same speed. Whenever I've asked their Mach numbers, it's usually between .78 and .80. The 737-500 and earlier models tend to fly slower than the A320 family.
However, the A320 can't touch the climb rate of the newer 737's.

[Jerricho]

180 kts?????

And here's me thinking that a PA31 was a turbo-prop :rolleyes: ;)

[Dream Land]

Well you're not a pilot are you, do a search on PA-31 sometime. :hmm:

[Number2]

I do think he's winding you up - relax!!!!

[dartman]

dreamland,
I may have misunderstood what you were saying. But a A320 at 140 knots is faster on final that a triple or 400!?!? Most civilian, transport category aircraft are enginered such that the approach speeds (and takeoff for that matter) fall within a reasonable band. If you have too large a disparity in speeds, it impacts the airport utilisation rate. (there are exceptions of course. ie the Concorde) Point of fact, both the triple, and 400, at moderate weights both approach at about 140 knots. However the 400 at MLW is just shy of 160 knots. Add a little gust correction, and your close to 170 knots. It gets fun when your following a smurf jet on final,...:ok:

d.

[Dream Land]

I will take your word for it, I fly the small bus and have never had any problems with sequencing to date.

[Jerricho]

Well you're not a pilot are you, do a search on PA-31 sometime. :hmm:

I guess PA31 pilots have a better sense of humour than you as well :rolleyes: You do need to chill out a litte buddy.

You are correct though, I'm not a career pilot.........but next time I'm sequencing YOU with a Navajo, I'll try to keep your input in mind.

[CaptW5]

I can tell you on final that both get run over by PA31s......:E ;)


The advent of Flight Data Monitoring (FOQA/FDM etc) has brought an end to the "sporty" approaches; as well most carriers have significantly tightened up their approach SOP's.
The days of the curving high speed approach in a jet (at least the transport category type) are just about over.

[Dream Land]

Ha ha right, if you would have said Cheyenne I would have understood.

[NG_Kaptain]

Havent flown the 737-800 in about four years, but do know our vref was quite high (were at max landing weight) and did have to go around at YYZ because we gained too much on an AC mini bus ahead of us. The 700 series had a slower approach speed and was nicer to fly. Am a bus driver now and approach at 125-130 kts. Cruised the 73 at M .80. BTW not with a Canadian carrier but do come over occasionally.

[Jerricho]

Hey Dream Land, were you flying the Ash Can mini-bus that came in here (YWG) about 1530ish local yesterday. Not sure what your IAS was, but looking at ground speeds, the PA31 AND the BE95 ahead smoked your ass on final..................... :E :E

[Dream Land]

Ya right, they would both polish my shoes just to yank gear on the electric jet. :}

[Jerricho]

Yank your what?????

[Willie Everlearn]

:{
Is it too late to play this game???
The A320 is faster! No wait, the NG is. No wait, ahhh....3-20.
Ahhh, the Boeing has a pointier nose so it must be faster. Isn't it?
.78?
.80?
Isn't that faster at a lower altitude than a higher one? Wait. Wait. Faster in thinner air so it must be a higher altitude. How does that work again??? Temperature dependant, cold air is better?
What if you're in a jetstream?? Not a J-31 but a real jetstream..
Wait. Are the two aeroplanes at the same weight, altitude and speed with similar CIs????
Then my guess is it's a tie!
My dog's still bigger than yours.
:ugh:

[rotornut]

But what really counts for us passengers is getting there as quickly as possible. I've flown with AC and WJ many times when they have made very clever diversions to get around unfavourable winds and landed ahead of schedule.

[roadbiker]

A WJ -700 or -600 will usually be between .77 and .79, faster into a headwind, and if it's heavier. The -8's are usually .79ish since they are heavier and the computer figures faster is closer to best l/d speed.

These speeds are when you are close to OPT alt (more than 2k below and it will slow you down. If you are in the yz-ow-ul triangle, down in the low 30s, then expect the computer to spit out a palty .71 to .73 due to the low cost indices we use. (22-24 mostly, higher in the US, I think we use 32 outta LAX).

We are supposed to descend at the FMC computed speed, which is usually in the range of 265 kts... If there is a reason, we can alter this speed. I have noticed that when ATC requests a higher transition speed, in the range of 290 kts or so, it usually ends up saving both time and gas. We aren't supposed to alter this speed, unless there is a reason. I usually have someone on my tail, ifyouknowwhatImean...:)

The FMC computed climb and cruise speeds show evidence of being optimized for TOC wind and GW, the descent speed appears to be purely a function of cost index. Apparently this is under review with Boeing. Yes, I am a big fat nerd, and pay attention to this sh!t.

Jerricho: You worked our WJ flight into YWG last week, onto 13, coming from YYZ. You cut us loose abeam the beacon at 40k, we peeled it in as close as "noise" would let us. Thanks. I don't think a PA31 would have caught us on that one (FDM and SOP were honoured btw ;)) However, we were at 60k off the end of 13 on departure before you let us go westbound to YXE. I'm sure there was a good reason. You're the dude with the Kiwi accent, right? How did you get over 1 million posts?

Cheers

[Jerricho]

KIWI ACCENT!!!!!!!!!

Grrrrrrrr.............


As to your YXE leg, my memory ain't that good. Of course, I must have had a good reason ;) There wasn't a Jazz in your way perchance?

[roadbiker]

Ack, it's hard to tell subtle accent differences over a 5 1/2 year old Telex headset that sorely needs replacing. My sincere apologies.

(great, now every WJer'll get a vector to freakin' Thomson before they're allowed in...)

No Dash in our way that I know of, though our fishfinder is limited to traffic +/- 2700 ft of our current altitude so there coulda been something we didn't see.

Not a biggie, I'm sure there was a valid reason, I'm just busting your balls. :p

[Jerricho]

Maybe there was a Navajo in yer way :E :E

[anybodyatall]

Thanks everyone for the informative replies, esp. zzjayca, roadbiker and meaw! who hit the nail on the head. You've answered my question, and then some :ok:

I was just trying to get an idea as to what the typical LD cruising speeds (mach) are for each bird (as possibly dictated by the SOPs for AC and WJ)... not a "My dog's still bigger than yours" or a physics debate over winds aloft, temps affecting mach etc etc (Willie Everlearn). Of which, Willie, you made me have a good chuckle. :p And quite frankly, I have a cat that would shred your dog. :}

[Yakkity MK2]

:} Had Good giggle over that one me hearties.
Jerricho me mate, might be mistaken for the other S.Hemispherean sorry :O .

[Jerricho]

I thought you were born in Ireland.

[Yakkity MK2]

Don't you think i hide /disguise that well:)

[Jerricho]

No....................

;)

[Yakkity MK2]

Wellll then i suppose at least i have an excuse ;)