Rotorheads and the Guild of Air Pilots

[Heliport]

Reading the latest issue of the Guild News in a quiet moment today, what do I see? Our very own Whirlygig has been elected as a Freeman of the Guild of Air Pilots.
And then, reading on, I saw that 4 Rotorheads regulars had been elected:


UPPER FREEMAN: (Professional Pilots)

Al Gwilt - Freelance pilot, Instructor/Examiner on more types than he can count. (Ex Army Air Corps & Blue Eagles display pilot.)

Toby Heierman - Police pilot with Chiltern ASU. (Apologies to Toby for not knowing more about his career.)


FREEMAN: (Private Pilots)

Pat Malone - Aviation writer, editor of the Helicopter Club of GB magazine, PPL(H) and former FI(H).

Whirlygig - PPL(H), mid way through a career change from the big bucks of flying a desk as an Accountant to becoming a professional pilot.



If work doesn't get in the way, hope to meet you all at the Guild's Trophies & Awards Banquet at the London Guildhall in October. :ok:

Heliport

[Whirlygig]

Hey Pat! We've been put up for it together! T'aint natural y'know!

I do feel quite honoured and I've noticed (amongst the bumpf received) that the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators is higher up the hierarchy of City Guilds than the Good Old Chartered Accountants! A promotion at long last!

Hope to see some of you at the Awards banquet!

Cheers

Whirls

[22clipper]

Whirlygig was a bean counter in a former life?! OMG. My notion of a cute chick in calf length boots, carefree at the controls of her whirlybird wearin' a tight fitting flying suit has just evaporated.

.....It's been replaced by the idea of a tight fitting pin stripe flying suit. Hey whirls, no influence from the accountancy days in your flying virtuosity I hope? Like the crop duster I met barreling downwind at me at Trangie airstrip. At first I thought I had missread the windsock, but no. When I asked his tanker crew why a turbine with a belly full of chemical was taking off downwind the answer was that time-is-money & downwind was the direction of the property he had to spray!

[Whirlygig]

Whaddya mean "a former life" - Sadly, I still am a beancounter!

But, if you prick us, do we not bleed
And if you tickle us, do we not laugh!

Without wishing to get into the controversy of accountants as managers, it would help EVERY business if each department understood a little of what the others did.

Cheers

Whirls

[John Eacott]

There are quite a few "old" members around, too ;)

Welcome, Whirls :ok:

[Whirlygig]

Thank you John for your kind words; I sincerely hope you're not implying I'm "old!" - just 'cos I need reading glasses, 41 is a mere strippling these days!

Cheers

Whirls

[Heliport]

Blimey, that champagne's made you delicate tonight.

41? (You don't look it.)

That's how many years John's been a member of the Guild! ;)

[Gerhardt]

And I have a new favorite word. strippling. It seems like it would fit well with a "tight fitting pin stripe flying suit".

Seriously, congratulations one and all!

[SASless]

Sooth!

I spend an evening in the Legion Hall drinking pints for a dollar....and spent money like a drunken sailor....to discover upon arriving at me digs that I know royalty.

Congratulations to both fair Whirls and Pat Malone for their well deserved honour of being inducted into the Guild. Whirls I met at Redhill after a short internet relationship and Pat mentored me during my first ever effort at writing an article for a flying magazine. Each are wonderful people and have earned recognition for their acheivements. This makes three folks that I know that are members of the Guild....the other being Flying Lawyer who I shared a cockpit with on a flight from Blackpool to Redhill.

As I consider my flying career....especially the part that includes my experience in the UK, I can honestly say that amongst the notables I have encountered, these three represent what is right about helicopter aviation in the UK. It has been a pleasure and an honour to have known such capable people as these three.

Congratulations Dear Whirls and Pat.....glad to hear of your new membership in the Guild!

Being a furriner to these parts....could someone explain fully the heritage and structure of the Guild? I saw the photos of Flying Lawyer in his fancy robes and such....next to some very aristocratic persons...but I do not fully understand the Guild and its full meaning? It does make one wonder how Fair Whirls, in her gold lame go-go boots, green Bee Hive hairdo, and nine inch nails can be a "Freeman" in the Guild?

[John Eacott]

SAS,

GAPAN have a website http://www.gapan.org/ which describes the roles and objectives of the Guild. Well respected around the globe, it has the ability to make valid and valuable contributions toward the betterment of our vocation, and also has a well established number of Awards.

As a City of London Guild there are three categories of membership, plus the Livery, which was conferred upon FL recently.

[Whirlygig]

Blimey, that champagne's made you delicate tonight.

41? (You don't look it.)

That's how many years John's been a member of the Guild! ;)
No, not delicate at all! A little fragile this morning maybe :p . And thank you for the compliment :O .

Cheers

Whirls

[HELOFAN]

Well done folks.

Hey Whirls , where are you studying & where are you at in the training & what are you flying & how are you doing so far?...just interested , heading up same path myself very soon.

Also where/what do you want to be doing once finished init training?

HF

[md 600 driver]

whirls
But, if you prick us, do we not bleed


sorry my accountant will only bleed if he is paid to and i have never seen him laugh but hes a nice chap though

[topendtorque]

Without wishing to get into the controversy of accountants as managers

Congratulations Whirls upon your recent elevation.

Ref the above, I once used to buy into that, but then I had a beancounter whose husband had a real tough time in WW11 - he was one of the ones dropped in Norway or somewhere up there, their codes had been shopped to give credibility to a double agent - he and one other 'just' survived - only for her to be snuffed out later in the infamous Glanville train smash in Sydney.

For a long time I thought, well if one thinks he is having a hard time time just think of them.

Anyway it's now up to you as well to lobby for us, when you can.
TET

[teeteringhead]

Well done Whirls et al.

And there's a few of us military ruffians in GAPAN too you know ..... ;)

[Heliport]

And there's a few of us military ruffians in GAPAN too


Here's a few at the Livery Dinner at the Mansion House London.

Scrub up well don't they. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Gallery/AAC_LiveryDinner.jpg
Army Air Corps making themselves at home







And some featured in the Awards -- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Gallery/Masters.jpg

Master Air Pilot certificates were presented to Sqd Ldr Garry Griffin and Flt Lt Nick Goodwyn,
Master Air Navigator certificates to Flt Lt John Skinner and Wg Cdr Richard Hughes-Ellis


Pictures from the Guild News

[Flying Lawyer]

I've heard from a usually reliable source that some more well-known helicopter pilots were elected to the Guild of Air Pilots last week.




Upper FreemanDave Nockels

Mark Griffiths

Menno Van der Werf

Paul Wheatley

Pete Barnes

Quentin Smith

Ruth Downey

Stuart Doyle


FreemanAdrian Willmott

Alan Cayless

Phil ConnollyThe Freemen are all experienced PPLs. Phil owns the superb Huey much discussed in this forum.


The full list will be published in the next Guild News.

Congratulations to all. :ok:




Someone called Daniel Fyne was amongst the airline pilots elected.
Name sounds vaguely familiar. :)

[Whirlygig]

I've heard from a usually reliable source .....
Can I infer from the above, that your source has been unreliable in the past!!

Congrats to everyone but especially Paul, Alan and Phil!

Cheers

Whirls

[Droopy]

Which Pete Barnes?

[Flying Lawyer]

Whirlygig

Not yet, but there's always a first time for everything so I thought I'd cover myself, just in case. :)



Droopy
Sorry, I didn't know there were two.

Pete Barnes = 'Barnesy' who flies for Great North Air Ambulance between doing lots of other freelance work.

[SASless]

Pete Barnes known as "Plod" perhaps?

Mark Griffiths who started as a crewman on S-58T's?

Phil Connolly....who went through Purgatory getting the Huey up and running!

Congratulations to them all! :ok: :ok:

[212man]

Ah, so not THE Peter Barnes then: I'll have to dispell the image of him in his ermine robes, after all!

[Droopy]

What's he doing now? Haven't seen him for about 10 years.

[212man]

He's the back to back with the individual being disparaged here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244359

(I believe)

[Heliport]

Mark Griffiths who started as a crewman on S-58T's?

Or Mark Griffiths Chief Pilot at Multiflight, now seconded by Multiflight to fly Michael Owen's Dauphin?

[Flying Lawyer]

I've heard that two more Rotorheads regulars were amongst those admitted to the Guild of Air Pilots last week.





Upper Freeman:Geoff Connolly
Ex-RAF helicopter pilot, QFI, Test Pilot (ETPS), Police pilot, FI/FE, consultant test pilot and aviation advisor. More than 9500 hours on over 60 types of helicopters and aeroplanes.
Geoff and I were on the same Squadron (London UAS) a few years ago. Well, maybe more than a few. :O


Gary Spender
Corporate pilot (Cornwall-based A109), FI/FE.




Congratulations to you both. :ok:
Look forward to seeing you at Guild events.


Tudor Owen


Link: Guild of Air Pilots (http://www.gapan.org/)

[Heliport]

I see some more helicopter pilots and Ppruners were amongst the 32 pilots recently elected to the Guild of Air Pilots.
From the latest Guild News:

UPPER FREEMAN:

Andrew GOSSAGE AAC
CO 5 Regt AAC, RAF Aldergrove

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/5RegtAAC.jpg
Lt Col Gossage (right) receiving the Guild's ' Sir Barnes Wallis Medal' awarded to 5 Regt AAC
in recognition of the regiment's exceptional contribution to aviation.


Ray JONES
Freelance pilot and FI

Dennis KENYON
FI, FE and Display Pilot

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Gallery/Kenyon.jpg
Dennis was 1992 World Freestyle Championships,
and highest scoring pilot in the 2005 World Championships.


Neil McTAGGART
Ex mil helicopter pilot, now corporate jets


Eric SWAFFER
Freelance helicopter pilot, FI and Corporate jets



FREEMAN:
Gary SMITH
PPL(H)


Not a helicopter man, but I noticed that David Miller, Deputy Chief Inspector of the AAIB was amongst the list of Upper Freeman.

Congratulations to all. :ok:

H.

BTW, lots of Rotorheads regulars are members of the Guild so if you're interested in becoming a member, PM me and I'll put you in contact with one of them.
Maybe we should arrange a 'Rotorheads table' at one of the events?

[Pofman]

Surely that is not Eric : " I'll just move Brighton harbour along with my boat as it is in the way" Swaffer?:O

[Heliport]

Attention Guild members:


An additional visit has just been added to this year's Guild events programme:



RNAS Culdrose


Tuesday September 11th
and
Wednesday September 12th



The visit is expected to include:

Briefing on all station activities
Close look at:
Merlin
Sea King SAR and
Airborne Early Warning Operations
A black tie dinner will be held in the Wardroom on Tuesday evening.
More info here (http://www.gapan.org/news/flyers/RNAS%20Culdrose.pdf)


Most visits are one-day events. This is two days, but promises to be well worth it if you are available on those days.


H.

[John Eacott]

I notice that Heliport has missed a Very Important Guild announcement: Flying Lawyer was elected to the Court a couple of months ago :ok:

Very well deserved, congratulations :D

[Heliport]

I see in this month's Guild News that another Rotorheads contributor and well-known UK helicopter pilot has been honoured by the Guild of Air Pilots.Richard Poppe, who's been a member of the Guild for some years, is one of four new Liverymen.
Congratulations Richard. :ok:

I haven't bumped into Richard for a few years so I'm not certain where he's working these days, but think he's with PremiAir.
Confirmation or correction welcome.


Heliport

[Brom]

Serious questions, so please don't have a go at me for asking, but...
What, exactly, does the 'Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators' do?
Are there any benefits to becoming a member?
Is it worth applying for membership?
Brom.

[Senior Pilot]

Brom,


You might like to follow these links for some idea of the Guild and its Achievements. Many Rotorheads are Freemen, and some are Liverymen: the Guild has a respected and valued voice in the industry, and has contributed both in the UK and overseas aviation industry :ok:


More details here: Trophies & Awards Banquet (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=249880)

Other awards here: Awards (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250869)

Link: Guild of Air Pilots (http://www.gapan.org/)


Senior Pilot
Rotorheads Mod

[Whirlygig]

And the subscription is tax deductible even if you're on PAYE!!!

Cheers

Whirls

[Brom]

SP & Whirls,
Thanks for that.:ok:
Have had a quick look at the website. Initial thoughts were that it's a bit of an 'Old Boys Club' though I'm sure there's much more to it than that.
I'm short on time at this precise moment, however, I'll have a more in depth look later today when my flying duty finishes.
Brom.

[Pandalet]

And the subscription is tax deductible even if you're on PAYE!!!

wait, come again? How does one go about reclaiming subs if you're employed (and thus on PAYE)? Does one need to be employed in a 'related industry'?

[Bravo73]

What, exactly, does the 'Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators' do?


As far as I'm aware, the Guild of Air Pilots... serves the role of any other guild or livery company ie promoting it's industry. If you aren't sure how and why the guilds evolved, here's a bit of history: The History of Livery Companies (http://wheelwrights.org/whoweare_frame1.asp)




Are there any benefits to becoming a member?


Yep, you're joining a very respected 'Old Boys Club'. ;) And because of this, yes, 'membership has it's privileges' (to nick a phrase.)



Is it worth applying for membership?


IMHO, yes.

[Whirlybird]

Yep, you're joining a very respected 'Old Boys Club'. And because of this, yes, 'membership has it's privileges' (to nick a phrase.)

What privileges, and why is it worth joining?
I'm not being awkward, but one can't join everything, and I'm in the process of cutting back on memberships of organisations for which I end up paying a sub, getting a mag, and little else. Is this one different, and if so, how and why?

[Whirlygig]

Pandalet, some pilots are employed and salaried through PAYE and some are freelance/self-employed. Generally speaking self-employed persons have greater tax advantages in what they can deeduct against tax. So any employed pilot may claim the subscription on their Self Assessment tax rturn. If they are in the fortunate position of not having to do a tax return, then a letter to their tax office should suffice requesting the deduction.

Although I am a member of GAPAN now, I do not claim the subscription as I am not yet qualified as a commercial pilot. However, when I am, then I shall!

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Whirls

[Bravo73]

Whirly,

Check your PMs.

[SilsoeSid]

3 years as an Upper Freeman yet continually having my name spelt incorrectly, was a hint that it wasn't the place for the likes of me.

[Whirlygig]

Hey don't worry about it! I've had 42 years of having my real name spelt incorrectly! :}

Cheers

Whirls

[Bertie Thruster]

All this talk of 'freemen'! All rather Frank Herbert!

[Whirlygig]

I'd've said more Patrick McGoohan in Portmeirion!

Cheers

Whirls

[Brom]

Bravo 73,
thanks for the info, the link to the History of Livery Companies I found particularly interesting (I have quite an interest in Social History - I do try to get out more but don't always succeed).

Would be interested in the answer to Whirlybirds question,
'What privileges, and why is it worth joining?...'

if anyone is willing to post or PM me.
Brom

[Senior Pilot]

3 years as an Upper Freeman yet continually having my name spelt incorrectly, was a hint that it wasn't the place for the likes of me.

And did you bother to tell them, or correct it on the member's section of the GAPAN website?

I'd hate to think that such a trivial matter would prevent you from contributing to our industry through such an organisation.

Senior Pilot

[SilsoeSid]

And did you bother to tell them, or correct it on the member's section of the GAPAN website?

Despite 2 letters highlighting the oversight and 3 subsequent change of addresses with name reminders, there comes a point where you wonder if it is worth it. For me it wasn't and the final straw was the constantly redirected post from the previous addresses.

Maybe it could be blamed on the postal system (5 times?), but they seemed to receive my resignation letter without any problems well enough!

Members website! Perhaps it might have worked but to be honest it's new to me.

I'd hate to think that such a trivial matter would prevent you from contributing to our industry through such an organisation.
Perhaps it may seem trivial to some, however despite ability the self assesment claim, as Whirlybird said, "I'm in the process of cutting back on memberships of organisations for which I end up paying a sub, getting a mag, and little else." all I seemed to be doing was paying the sub and eventually getting a mag with most of the closing dates for events on the flyers, closed!.

Yes a pity, nay a shame, and I would have loved to have seen Buzz Aldrin a few years ago and more recently Neil Armstrong, met up with friends, old, new and those I have not yet had the chance to meet.

Perhaps I should have persevered but as I said in my first sentence above, "there comes a point where you wonder if it is worth it."

[Brom]

Thanks Silsoe, you've answered the question I posted earlier,
'What privileges, and why is it worth joining?...'
I'm also cutting down on subscriptions I pay for very little return, however, I'll continue to support and contribute to the industry through other channels where I do get a return for my money.
Brom.

[Whirlybird]

Thanks SilsoeSid.

Now, could some of those who think it IS worth joining, please tell me why.
Seems I've missed meeting Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin. :{
If I join now, what else am I likely to get for my money...apart from a mention on these hallowed pages. :)

[John Eacott]

Sid, Whirls, et al.,

Having been in GAPAN for 30+ years, I've never found myself asking 'is it worth joining'. I believe membership of the Guild to be a privilege, and the opportunity to have some input into the decision making end of our industry is invaluable. Maybe the question should be, 'what can I contribute to GAPAN'?

Down here, we have a respected Technical Committee which has a consultative input to many, if not all, of CASA's proposed rule making initiatives. The Guild also has a well publicised training award, and a respected international set of Awards to the industry.

Many years ago I was actively involved in the Helicopter Association of Australia, and like to think that we scored a few runs for the helicopter industry in Oz. GAPAN and AOPA are better heard these days: we need all the help that we can get, as the old "Divide and Conquer" philosophy always seems to work in favour of the CAA or CASA :oh: The louder the industry voice, and the better the presentation as a truely industry wide representation, the greater the chance of getting heard ;)


ps: Sid, I get all the GAPAN stuff either off the web, or by post all the way from Blighty, and always wish that I was in UK able to go to the events published. I'm cursing Tudor ever since he got that trip in the refueller VC10 :p

[Whirlybird]

OK, John; thanks for the input But that just leaves me with more questions.

Why do you consider membership to be a privilege? And since I'd have to pay to join, why isn't it reasonable to be asking what I might get out of it? And why exactly should I be asking what I can contribute to GAPAN?

I realise GAPAN is terribly respected and all that. But being a member of a respected organisation simply because it's a respected organisation doesn't interest me. I, personally, need a better reason...no criticism intended of those who don't need any other reason. So I'm still asking - are there other reasons to join?

[Flying Lawyer]

Someone offered to propose me for the Guild 10 years ago, but I didn’t get around to it until another friend offered a few years later.
My loss – I wish I’d joined sooner.
I’ve enjoyed every single event I’ve attended, without exception, and regard being able to attend such occasions as a privilege.
The members are mainly professional pilots - a good mix of mil and commercial from every field of aviation – but PPLs are made very welcome. Great company - it's difficult to imagine a more enjoyable and interesting group of aviators from such varying backgrounds.
It's impossible to measure the value of such company in money terms because personal views will differ; I regard it as a privilege.

Initial thoughts were that it's a bit of an 'Old Boys Club' though I'm sure there's much more to it than that.
Old Boys?
There are some elderly members; most are not.
My tip to new members is to seize any opportunity to speak to the older members – they include pilots with vast experience in a wide variety of aviation spheres, including eg distinguished test pilots such as Duncan Simpson whose varied test flying career ranged from Vampire to Harrier, including the maiden flights of both Harrier and Hawk.
Again, I regard being able to chat to such people about experiences in their careers as a privilege.
Old Boy networking?
I know some people who have found networking very beneficial but, not being in the industry myself, I don’t know how widespread that is. I assume making contacts could be useful but, if that’s the only motive for becoming a member, I doubt if it's worth joining.

“….. though I'm sure there's much more to it than that.”
Yes, there is.

Social

The social events (some formal, some informal) are always extremely enjoyable - good opportunities to catch up with old friends and chat to interesting new people.
Evening and lunchtime talks - always interesting topics.
'Behind the scenes' visits to places of aviation interest - most of which aren't accessible to individuals.Work (Brief summary)

The Guild has active links with regulatory and licensing authorities, and all other constituted body whose activities might affect the safety and welfare of air pilots and air navigators. As an independent organisation, it has direct access to Ministers, their departments, individual MPs and the CAA. The Regional Committees perform similar functions in Australia, New Zealand and Hong Kong.
In addition, the Guild has representatives on numerous national boards, councils and committees, incl:
CAA's Civil Air Transport Consultative Committee
Flight Time Limitations - Fixed Wing and Rotary Advisory Groups
General Aviation Consultative Committee
General Aviation Safety Review Working Group
ICAO Flight Crew Licensing Panel
General Aviation Safety Committee (GASCo)
Guild of Air Traffic Control Officers
NATS - Stakeholders Committee, National Air Traffic Management Advisory Committee and Navigation and All Weather Operations Committee
UK Flight Safety Committee
UK Airprox Board.
In addition members of the Education & Training Committee represent the Guild at City and Metropolitan Universities in relation to their M.Sc courses in Aviation Management.

Helping aspiring pilots, incl helping organising the scholarships, and with aptitude testing.
Affiliated Armed Services Units:
No. IV (Army Co‑operation) Squadron, RAF
Army Air Corps
847 Naval Air Squadron (Royal Marines)
HMS Illustrious
No 55 (Reserve) Squadron,
RAF Aerobatic Team (Red Arrows)
7 Regiment Army Air Corps (Volunteers)
University of London Air Squadron
Headquarters London Wing Air Training Corps
Central Flying SchoolMy impression is that the majority of members don’t get involved in the work side of the Guild. However, if anyone shows the slightest willingness to help with the workload, they are snapped up very quickly – as I found out.
Apart from the Clerk to the Guild and a few admin staff (3 incl part-timers) who work very hard, the work of the Guild is done by members who volunteer to help in some capacity.

'membership has it's privileges' For the reasons I’ve given, I certainly regard it as a privilege to be a member, and I remain grateful to my proposers for suggesting it.

If you don't enjoy the sort of company I’ve described, aren't interested in attending aviation social events/talks/visits, nor in contributing to aviation generally via the Guild then, frankly, I don’t think it’s worth joining.
If all or some of those things appeal then it's certainly worth becoming a member and I highly recommend it.Annual Subs
The highest annual sub (Upper Freeman) is the equivalent of less than £3.50 per week. There's no joining fee. (The Guild is a Livery Company of the City of London, hence the ancient titles for members.)


Whirlybird
I’ve proposed several friends who are now members of the Guild and enjoy it. There are other friends I haven’t offered to propose - either because I don’t think they’d enjoy it or because I know they aren’t interested in such organisations. (Some are not ‘joiners’ - their words.) The fact I haven’t offered is no disrespect whatsoever to them; people get pleasure from different things.
In answer to your questions:
I don't know you well enough to be certain but, based on meeting you a few times and reading your posts in this forum and in other PPRuNe forums over many years, I'm 95% sure you wouldn't particularly enjoy the Guild and 100% sure you'd think you weren't getting enough out of it in return for your annual sub. IMHO it’s not worth you spending the money.

In contrast, for example, I thought Whirlygig would enjoy it. I proposed her, and she does – as do several other members of this forum, ranging from some who are relatively new in the industry to others who've been professional pilots for more years than they might wish to admit. ;)

IMHO, the Guild is a wonderful organisation, and I'm proud to be a member. If anyone is interested in joining, feel free to email me so that we can discuss the way forward. I'll be very busy for the next week, but will respond after that.

Tudor

[moretorque]

Merriam-Webster:a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor ; especially : such a right or immunity attached specifically to a position or an office.....Probably over-egging the pudding to use the word privileged.....Honoured to be a member is more appropriate if you want to be pedantic..........All you do is join after all?..........If indeed there is proposal/secondment, it can't be too arduous as people here are willing to propose candidates based on a rumour network relationship, hardly a select group taking some of the posts into account. MT

[Flying Lawyer]

Interesting first post moretorque.

"Probably over-egging the pudding to use the word privileged"
Not IMHO.
"Honoured to be a member is more appropriate"
That too.
"if you want to be pedantic"
I don't.

"All you do is join after all?"
True, provided you are proposed and seconded and the Court of the Guild approves.
"it can't be too arduous"
It's not. I don't know of the Court declining to approve a candidate, but I suspect that's because proposers/seconders exercise good judgment in deciding whom they put forward for membership. (The Guild recognises that some people who wish to join may not know any existing members so there is a procedure to help them become members.)

"as people here are willing to propose candidates based on a rumour network relationship"
I've done that a couple of times when I considered it appropriate. Having read virtually every post in this forum for the past seven years, I'm confident I know enough about the people behind the (regular) usernames to make an informed judgment about them.
"hardly a select group taking some of the posts into account."
I don't think any of us here would claim to be part of a 'select group'. However, there are many contributors to this forum for whom I have enormous respect, even though I don't know their real names, have never met them and probably never will.

FL

[Whirlybird]

Flying Lawyer,

Many thanks for finally answering my question. :ok: However, my curiosity is piqued. You really hardly know me, yet seemed fairly certain in your opinion as to whether I'd enjoy the Guild or not. I actually think you're right -I'd even agree approximately on the percentages - but how did you know? What was your opinion based on? If you don't want to be too specific on here, feel free to send me a pm...but only if you have time, that is; it's not that important. But I really am curious. ;)

[Flying Lawyer]

Whirlybird

Years of practice in my job. ;)
(That doesn't mean I never get it wrong.)



John Eacott always wish that I was in UK able to go to the events published. I'm cursing Tudor ever since he got that trip in the refueller VC10 :p

Superb day flying - as a passenger (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=286299)

That one Guild visit alone would have made this year's sub worth paying.
In fact, several years' subs! :)


Tudor

[BoeingMEL]

Belatedly, I have overcome unspeakable embarrassment to defend GAPAN

In February 97 this Ppruner (then a very fit 47 year-old) was struck down with multiple sclerosis. Within days of diagnosis I was virtually blind and walking only with he aid of 2 canes. My marriage was swiftly strained to the limit, I lost my career and all income except benefits and losing my home was looking increasingly inevitable.

Thanks to two very generous donations from the Guild's Benevolent Fund I was able to sort my mortgage arrears and buy a PC with Braille keyboard. With this latter item I was able to maintain contact with the outside world (including the global MS community) and earn income from my writing.

With greatest respect Whirls and others, maybe you could look beyond what YOU could get out of GAPAN?

If you want to consider privileges, consider the privilege of going to the bathroom unassisited or being able to choose a matching pair of socks without help. Oh heavens, you have no idea.

Cheers, bm (733, F27, B206 and 212 etc.)

[ShyTorque]

Whirly, I would think that a member of GAPAN would be even more respected as a writer on aviation topics.

Wish I could write :p

[kpd]

GAPAN have a role in providing impartial assessments of prospective pilots. They are clearly extremely experienced dedicated people as the above testifies. Does anyone know if their assessment procedures are just valid for fixed-wing or equally for helicopters! Thanks

PS in advance if you get the GAPAN page on do you want to be a pilot it is a dead-end!

[Flashover999]

Any body going to the Guild Presentations tomorrow night?

[Flying Lawyer]

Yes.

See you there?

[lady in red]

Yes, I will be there. I agree wholeheartedly with everything that Flyiing lawyer has said. I also admire his ability to persuade people to join who I have approached years ago and not managed to persuade. I have been a member of the Guild (GAPAN) for 13 years and I could not wait to join. I had to wait though until I had held a licence long enough (back then it was 5 years). Ever since I have been to numerous brilliant events (I too managed the VC10 trip, back in 1994) and I love the friendships and camaraderie. I have been involved with a number of committees over the years and I do like the feeling of putting something back in to the industry.

The other benefit of the Guild is the number of awards and bursaries available. I am constantly amazed that so few people bother to apply for them as everyone is always complaining about the cost of training. The £10,000 helicopter instructor scholarship is really worth having, yet we do not get inundated with applications...

[K48]

Hi Lady in Red... (singing...Chris de Brgh)
What is the sub and what are the joining criteria?

[Flying Lawyer]

There are three categories of initial membership:

Upper Freeman.
Professional pilot or navigator, military, civil or test pilot, with five or more years experience.
Annual fees: Upper Freeman £180, Upper Freeman (Overseas) £90
Freeman.
As above but with less than five years experience or a private pilot with two years experience.
Any other person who, in the opinion of Court, has rendered or may render outstanding service to the profession or to the Guild.
Annual fees: Freeman £142, Freeman (Overseas) £71
Associate.
Be engaged in training to become a professional pilot or navigator or the holder of a PPL or equivalent with less than two years experience.
Annual fee: £36 (Worldwide)
Note: Associate members are required to submit an annual report in order to enable the Guild to monitor their eligibility for election as Freemen, and to furnish up-to-date information on their flying progress so that appropriate professional advice can be given.There is no entrance fee.

____________


Lady in Red

Thank you for the compliment, but most of the people I've proposed didn't need persuading. However, it's interesting that those who join thoroughly enjoy the Guild and regret they didn't do so earlier.

I share your surprise at the relatively small number of applicants for helicopter scholarships given the value of what's on offer, and for precisely the same reasons as you.

I think I've worked out who you are - see you this evening to confirm.
I assume you'll be in red. ;)

Tudor

[Flying Lawyer]

Good to meet Lee Burling at the Guild's reception for scholarship winners and their guests last night. Lee won this year's Helicopter Flight Instructor (R) Rating Scholarship.

Lee is a crew manager with Essex Fire and Rescue Service, and a kite surfing instructor. He gained his PPL(H) in 2005 and his CPL(H) earlier this year.
He did his course with Helicopter Services at Wycombe, and now holds a FI(R) Rating.

Congratulations Lee. Well done. :ok:



Without detracting in any way from Lee's success - I'm told all applicants were of high quality - but simply to illustrate a point made above -

There were only 12 compliant applications for the helicopter scholarship. (Compliant = applicants who met the requirements set out in the scholarship application forms.)
Given the entirely understandable comments about the high costs of training that we often read here, I'm surprised there weren't more applications.


Tudor

[Flying Lawyer]

Application forms for the T&A Banquet are being distributed with this month’s Guild News and can also be downloaded from the Guild website:
http://www.gapan.org/news/flyers/T&A%20Flyer%202008.pdf (http://www.gapan.org/news/flyers/T&A%20Flyer%202008.pdf)

As those of you who've been before will know, it's a truly wonderful occasion held in the magnificent banqueting hall of historic Guildhall in London.

If you'd like to go but are not sure if you're available on the 23rd October, it's better to book now and cancel if necessary. It's always a sell-out so waiting and trying to get tickets nearer the time will almost certainly end in disappointment.


At least two helicopter pilots - Rotorheads contributors John Eacott (Australia) & Richard Poppe (UK) - are being made Liverymen of the Guild at the Banquet.


Tudor

[Heliport]

Rotorheads John Eacott and Richard Poppe were made Liverymen of the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators (http://gapan.org) at a ceremony at the London Guildhall on Thursday evening.

The Livery is conferred by the Guild upon people who have contributed significantly to aviation.


Air Cdre Rick Peacock-Edwards AFC, Master of the Guild, welcoming John and Richard to the Livery


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Flying%20Lawyer/TA_John.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Flying%20Lawyer/TA_poppe.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/Flying%20Lawyer/TA_Rotorheads.jpg

Warden Wally Epton, Richard Poppe, Mrs Janet Poppe, Flying Lawyer, John Eacott


Congratulations to John and Richard.
Well deserved. :ok:

[VeeAny]

Congratulations to both of them.

Gary S.

[206Fan]

Congratulations indeed :ok:

[Brilliant Stuff]

Congratulations Chaps!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Whirlygig]

Well done chaps - looking very smart as well! Love the pink lining! :ok:

Cheers

Whirls