Owning an aircraft share

[airbabylon]

Just a quick question to those in the know:

I was looking at a share recently and whilst the group looked well run, there seemed to be a lack of paperwork indicating the value of the aircraft and the capital owned by each of the members

Whilst the aircraft was registered under the names of the members, I was expecting to see some money figures of sorts. How do those of you currently in groups document this information?

These shares can amount to a few quid, so any feedback on how these matters are handled much appreciated.

[dublinpilot]

There should be clearly set out what % or share of the aircraft everyone owns. I wouldn't expect it to be expressed as a value though.

I mean I would expect to see that each memember of the group had a 20% share in the aircraft, but I wouldn't expect to see the aircraft valued at 100,000, and each members share being valued at £20,000.

The value of the aircraft will be down to whatever can be achieved on the market at the time of sale.

dp

[Julian]

Airbabylon,

First of all once you know what % share you are going to own i.e. 20% (or a 1/5 to those who deal in fractional ownership heehee :} ), have a look and see if it makes economic sense. I.e. If a 20% share is £10,000 then the aircraft should be would £50,000.

Go online, get the ads out, etc and see what similar aircraft are going for. So if for instance you find similar ones for £40,000 you know it is overpriced, likewise if they are £60,000 you could be onto a bargain!

Check the kit inside, ask about any bills they know are coming up (when I bought my share I knew a respray was in the pipeline), try and make an assessment of the general condition. If in doubt get an engineer to have a look for you.

When you buy your share you should be given an invoice for the amount of your share and stating what % you now own.

Dont also forget that should the group put a fair wedge of cash into the aircraft to upgrade avionics, respray, etc then a revaluation of each group members share may be order.

J.

[EGCC4284]

airbabylon

A friend of mine has just come up with an idea of having aircraft shared out into no equity groups.

It works out as cheap flying in a more modern aircraft.

The 3 aircraft he already owns at Barton are on average 6 years old and are very well kitted out.

He is also wanting to base more aircraft around the UK at other airfields and is looking for anyone interested in helping him set up groups. He will get the aircraft and a bit of help from someone else at other locations is what I think he is looking for.

It may be worth you having a look at his idea as described on his website as it may suit you.

They are very nice aircraft, leather seats, smart avionics, the full monty.

If you PM me, I can send you his mobile number or e-mail address.

http://www.aircraftgrouping.com/

[Rod1]

It is normal for the value of the shares to add up to more than the value of the aircraft. This is supply and demand; more people will pay £8000 for a 6th than £42000 for a whole aircraft.

You are not buying into an aircraft; you are buying into an active flying group. This will include “value” paid for hangerage, insurance, engine fund, general bank balance, spare parts etc. This can add up to a very considerable amount. Some groups which are very stable so rarely sell shares may undervalue this element.

On aircraft value, it is always useful to find out what it is insured for and why.

If you have the cash and can handle the hassle, it is possible to buy your own aircraft, write the rules, sell shares and pick who you want in the group. I have done this several times with considerable success.

Rod1

[Lucy Lastic]

Rod

I certainly agree with you on that. And my advice is to go for the smallest group you can.

I had a bad experience with a no equity group, and although many work well, you have to find one where the leader is not a dictator or is making a living from the group.

[englishal]

We have a syndicate agreement which states that "There shall be 4 syndicate members with equal shares unless all members agree otherwise". Each person has a copy of this agreement which they sign, and this agreement "shall be treated as a certificate of share".

The value of the aircraft in our group is based on the insured value and states "currently £40,000 divided into 4 equal shares".

Anyone can sell their share for whatever they want, but the fact is that the new owner would only own 25% of the aeroplane. The existing owners are given first refusal in the agreement.

[airbabylon]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. That's certainly cleared a few things up.

As exciting as the prospect of owing a share is, it appears not to be without a few hassles so it's always good to know any potential problems that may lie ahead.

Happy flying

[maxdrypower]

Air B , EGCC raised th point of no equity shares , I have currently just agreed to enter one of these groups with the gentleman at Barton , this is a classic way of flying cheaply without a major capital investent , although you would never actually own the A/C the fees payeable are way below that of any club rental and the A/C are exceptionally nice , well worth looking into it

[EGCC4284]

If anyone wants his contact mobile number, PM me and I will gladly send it.

maxdrypower

I had a back seat flight in one of his aircraft the other day and it was a dream flight compared to my 150.

I also believe that when he has a fleet, you may be able to use any of the aircraft he has at the time you are a member of the group.

He's just brought back a 152 from the south of France last week and its currently at Oxford getting some kit fitted into it.

Apparently, it will be the best 152 in the North West of England

When and If I get my jet job, I will be getting a share into his 182 fleet.

He is also looking at basing some aircraft around the UK if anyone is up for helping set a group up.

PM me for any cotact details anyone.