RAF Harrier jets under missile attack in Afghanistan

[Brewster Buffalo]

RAF Harrier jets have been fired at by surface-to-air missiles and anti-aircraft artillery while supporting British troops in Afghanistan's Helmand province, a senior pilot said yesterday.

Squadron Leader Damien Killeen, 33, operational commander of the six GR7 British jets based at Kandahar, said his aircraft were regularly subjected to attack, from automatic rifle rounds through to rocket-propelled grenades, as they flew low-level sorties against Taliban insurgents....

full story at http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/68009.html

[Antique Driver]

Only 1 engine and no ESF!! I take my hat off to them. Lets hope the bad guys keep missing. Fly safe.:D

[Tombstone]

Also yesterday, a bear sh*t in some woods

Don't be a :mad: throbber Gary, unless of course you'd like to step out of your 737 & into a GR7 over in 'stan?

[SASless]

Well ain't it fair.....the Harrier guys are shooting at the Oppos! What kind of two way rifle range would it be if the guys on the ground could not shoot back?:uhoh:






















Hopefully, the Oppos will only see Maggie's Drawers on their end!

[16 blades]

Man up, boys! At least YOU can shoot back!

16B

[Noz L. Eaver RN]

:ugh:
Spare a thought for all the blokes and lasses away from home living in which ever dusty s***hole they may be in. Despite the fact that it isn't the easiest of jobs at the mo', few are complaining. I thought this thread may have started a discussion about official PR lines, public perception, military over-stretch, etc.
Needless-to-say, Gary seems to have taken it to a new level nicely. Bravo Centurion... (When were you last OOA? The pan at Malaga ensconced behind your armoured door and leather pilots' bag doesn't count).
:D
All the Armed Forces are on the bones of their ar***, and any positive media attention has to be a good thing. Over and out-ish...;)

[QFIhawkman]

No I'm sorry but I have to agree with Gary Lager.

Someone takes a few pot shots with their AK and we're supposed to feel sorry for our GR9 boys?

For God's sake guys, if it's that bad, fire back.

Think of the ground troops in the same region... Roadside bombs, and no chance to fire back. One bang and It's all over.

For once think yourself lucky to be in the cockpit... I wouldn't want to be on the ground in Kabul / Kandahar in the cities.

Let's stop whingeing and try to give some good support. It's what we're here for after all.

QFI

[glum]

Agree. They're fighter pilots flying in a war zone. Why is ANYONE surprised they're being shot at?:ugh:

[Brain Potter]

It doesn't sound at all like the Harrier pilot was whingeing. He was asked about operating in Afghanistan and gave an honest answer. The journo would have picked out the interesting aspects of the interview and written a story accordingly, probably spicing it up as much as possible. Are you sure that you would not have been equally scornful of interviews given by Herc or Lynx crews in Iraq before early last year?:( .

Everyone out there is playing their part and they certainly don't deserve to be sniped at by armchair warriors.

Anyone heard a rumour about a Predator jockey getting a DFC? From Nellis :eek:

[Runaway Gun]

Forfuxsakes, it's a story about our lads getting shot at. Nobody enjoys it, and they're not getting paid any extra (nor I suspect, getting laid by the locals).
Give them a break :mad:

[Archimedes]

I have to agree with BP. The journalist will have asked about what goes on, and will have been given the answer.

Glum - the sad thing is a sizeable minority of the Herald's readership almost certainly will be startled to learn that the Harrier chaps are being shot at.

For heaven's sake, one of the most memorable pieces of journalism during Telic was Ben Brown asking a USMC officer whether or not being shot at was dangerous. :ooh:

If someone who is supposed to have a (very) vague notion of what's going on (because he's a war correspondent) comes out with tosh like that, it seems to me to be no bad thing if some newspaper readers get a surprise over their cornflakes when learning that the Taleban shoot back and that Afghanistan is a rather dangerous place to be. Better that there's some coverage, even if slightly naive in tone, than none at all?

[downsizer]

Interesting to note that the harriers are armed with 30mm cannon. Would that be old GR3's deployed then? Or perhaps they've suddenly deployed with the scrapped 27mm Cannon, because RAF Harriers are certainly sans gun.:ugh:

[Ignition Override]

I only flew some C-130s for a while in peacetime (except when we canceled IFR from Panama and orbited elsewhere...), but a few older guys who flew helicopters in SE Asia were envious of the A-7, F-4 and F-105 "Thud Drivers" etc who streaked at 400 knots over the Ho Chi Minh trails as they sat on ejection seats.

The guys flying the very slow Huey or Chinook helicopters into an LZ to offload grunts were sitting ducks :ouch: . And the US Army was very slow to ship them armored chest protectors, based on the excellent book "Chickenhawk" (former bestseller), the first book by former Warrant Officer Robert Mason; Penguin books. How about the "Jolly Green Giant" rescue crews hovering over a downed pilot in a hot area? The book "Bat 21" will also hold your attention.

The Cobra helicopter pilots had more weapons but seem to have been fairly easy targets.

[Tombstone]

I'm not suggesting that we should feel sorry for any aircrew in theatre however, I don't think blasé comments are appropriate either. It could be any of us out there & I for one respect the guys that ARE out there enough to fight their corner on this forum.

[jindabyne]

Saddening to see the somewhat shameful comments being posted here.

[WhiteOvies]

Frustrating to see what :mad: the journos come up with again. The boys out there are doing a good job with the assosciated risks of flying operationally in a war zone. Of course they get shot at, as do the hercs, chinnys and everyone else in theatre. It may help people realise that war is a dangerous business but it would help if they at least got basic facts right.
30mm cannon?
Maybe he was looking at the Janes entry for AV8B or Sea Harrier:confused:

[Gary Lager]

Hello folks, nice to see so many old mates about.

FWIW, I meant to illustrate that I hardly think it 'news' that flying a military aircraft over Afghanistan attracts the occasional/frequent pot-shot. I suppose the kind of folks that read the Herald need to be reminded every now and again that ops overseas don't stop for Ad breaks like Conornation Street does.

Nothing I'd like more than to see everyone back from the desert, even the Harrier crews.

Happy to see continued Lager- or Journo-bashing, as always. But no Harrier-bashing going on here!

[Runaway Gun]

The sad fact is that the public (and I suspect 75% of the military) assume that flyboys simply swan around in their 'planes', dogfighting each other for fun.
It's about time that someone pointed out a current reality of the theatres that we operate in.

Yes, helicopter aircrew and footsoldiers have it worse. Nobody is denying that.

[Gary Lager]

True enough. But did we need to point it out on a Military Aircrew internet forum?

Lager out

[Fox3Maddog]

QFIHawkman, your very name singles you out as someone singularly unqualified to make glib and inaccurate (GR9?!) statements about being shot at in anywhere more dangerous than Holyhead. If you bothered to read the article (as inaccurate as your post) properly, you would have noticed no whingeing on the part of the pilot in question - merely statement of fact. He was directly answering questions posed to him by the interviewer. As for firing back, clearly ROE and collateral damage are not uppermost in the mind of someone mid PFL to Mona but I can assure you that they do have an impact in operational theatres.
Stick to nibbing with red green and blue pens and let the GR 7 boys get on with their job without pointless injects from armchair warriors like you.
:*

[QFIhawkman]

QFIHawkman, your very name singles you out as someone singularly unqualified to make glib and inaccurate (GR9?!) statements about being shot at in anywhere more dangerous than Holyhead. If you bothered to read the article (as inaccurate as your post) properly, you would have noticed no whingeing on the part of the pilot in question - merely statement of fact. He was directly answering questions posed to him by the interviewer. As for firing back, clearly ROE and collateral damage are not uppermost in the mind of someone mid PFL to Mona but I can assure you that they do have an impact in operational theatres.
Stick to nibbing with red green and blue pens and let the GR 7 boys get on with their job without pointless injects from armchair warriors like you.
:*

Right, first off. I apologise for saying the Harrier men are whingeing. They're not. I was mistaken and I'm sorry.

I should perhaps clarify my position: I'm not having a crack at ANY pilot out there. I am simply gobsmacked that people think it is somehow shocking that aircraft get shot at now and again in an operational theatre. Then there seems to be a backslapping culture about how brave the GR7 guys are. What?? They're combat pilots! Nobody forced them into Cranwell! I'm sure that THEY are the first to say that this is their job, plain and simple, no congratulations required.

I still hold fast on my main point: Life is MUCH worse for the guys on the ground. And nobody seems to champion their cause. That, in essence is what annoys me a little about some of the posts on this thread.

By the way fox, Holyhead can be quite a dangerous place too! (And I haven't been a hawkman all my life... GR1 stick monkey 89-04, amongst other tours of course, so the armchair warrior thingie was a trifle off target!)

[SASless]

Nige,

What with Reuters and CBS having such reputations for reporting the "truth", and the Beeb's know left wing tilt....akin to ground looping with the left wing in the dirt....I somehow doubt your accusation.

If anything....the news does not show nor protray the innocent victims of insurgents and terrorists. For craps sake....Reuters does not use the word "Terrorist" to describe these kinds of groups.

When was the last time the Beeb, Reuters, or CBS run unaudited full length video's of the beheadings, shootings, and mutilation of victims of Al Qaeda?

I would suggest the media themselves are guilty of censorship and false reporting far more often and to a greater extent than any government.

[Fox_4]

Anyway......

Back to Harrier bashing!!!

:ugh:

[CAS Stack]

Bring it on you two engined, single seat wannabee!

[RNGrommits]

Harriers in Afgan?
Good on them, and long may they continue to do the Sterling job they are doing out there.
It might not be the head-line grabbing job, but back home we know the efforts they are putting in and support them 100%.
Nuff said.

[AHQHI656SQN]

Having just got back from the Stan, and after attending a few shouts with the Harrier blokes, let me say how proffesional those boys (and girl) are. It was a real bonus to have an RAF Harrier crew to give some SA and fire power.
For sure it is really easy to throw stones from the comfort of you computer desk. Let me add, that regardless of how high and warm it is in the cockpit, over Helmand it is hostile.
If any GR7/9 crew are looking in. Thank you, and see you out there again too soon.

QFIHAWKMAN.
There is a big difference between the boys on the ground and the man in the air. For sure the comfort zone is greater in the air, and the infantry have a tough job to do, but they get on with the job in hand. They have security in numbers, if you play the statistics game, as a member of an infantry Btn an individual is one in five hundred (or so). As aicrew you are 1 of 2 (or so) so the odds begin to stack up.
Maybe, when the hawk gets a gun with more than a few dozen rounds and the pilots man-up, then pick up a stone and have a throw. Till then!

[SASless]

It does not matter who is in Harm's Way out there....the prayer for their safe and speedy return each and everyone is the same.

[ratpackgreenslug]

Could we not all write a strongly worded letter to those nice people at the HLF and get XH558 reassembled for a black buck two à la Falklands style operation? Yes, I know it sounds silly and more than a little naively hopeful, but let us not forget that the illustrious 1982 annals of the RAF record the sudden and violent redistribution of several wheelbarrows full of mud with an even greater number of sheep reportedly being startled out of their woolly wits by the last Vulcan impersonation of Rolling Thunder. Given the opportunity, I bet they could pull off something similar today.

[superserong]

Was fueling my little Kingair in Kandahar the other day when some of the Harriers landed...beautiful machines! But, flying lowlevel in that or any part of Afganistan takes some skill and balls. The rocks are big and viz is cr@p. Ad to that some angry types with weapons... So for what it's worth coming from a civvie, Hat's off to the military pilots and other ISAF in Afghanistan! You lot make me feel much safer when polling around here in a rolled-out toothpaste tube.:ok:

Cheers

SS

[QFIhawkman]

Any chance we can pat backs even more?
Without even acknowledging the ground forces?

This is the prescise reason why the army take the piss out of us...

We are FAR too quick to slap backs on how well we are doing. And not quick enough to ask the guys on the ground "how are WE doing?"

I think if you ask the grunt on the ground, he'll tell you that he would like MORE air support. I've asked them by the way, which is why I'm here... Armchair warrior shouters, go ahead.

I am tending to get the impression that these days, contributors to this forum are too busy slapping backs to think about what may be happening on the ground. Wake up and smell the coffee guys. GO to Afghanistan. GO to Basrah. FOR GOD'S SAKE stop smacking harrier pilot's backs.
YES they do a good job, and so they should.
So do the Herc crews.
So do the C17 crews.
More importantly, so do the Following: The Provisional Reconstruction teams (i.e. Infantry), the Search teams (RAF Regiment and RAF Police), the ground support crews (drivers, fuellers, suppliers, mechs, techs, met, etc etc etc.)
I could... and probably should go on.

These people lay their lives on the line EVERY SINGLE DAY. We forget them at our peril. I've been out on patrol with them, and they do this without your support, without your thanks, and even (most apparently) without your knowledge.

Next time you slap the fly boys on the back for doing a good job, remember that they're not the only ones.

And by the way, for those levelling the hawk "armchair warrior" thing at me, I am an ex 16 Sqn Tornado pilot, Gulf 1 for your info. (Laarbruch 89 - 92). Some of you really need to get your glasses on and stop backslapping so much.

Last I saw, there was no RAF aircraft shot down in Afghanistan or Iraq recently.

[rudekid]

Eggzackery...Hic...Hic...

Big night out in Bangor was it?;)

[QFIhawkman]

Good post rudekid.

That was certainly a most positive input to the debate. Well done.

[rudekid]

Brilliant!

A bite.

I was teasing, but you're so obviously a self-important trimmer!

By the way, it's provincial reconstruction teams, not provisional. But you'd know that as you've been out on patrol with them...

Follow me through...:}Hic

[Tombstone]

Any chance we can pat backs even more?
Without even acknowledging the ground forces?

This is the prescise reason why the army take the piss out of us...

We are FAR too quick to slap backs on how well we are doing. And not quick enough to ask the guys on the ground "how are WE doing?"

I think if you ask the grunt on the ground, he'll tell you that he would like MORE air support. I've asked them by the way, which is why I'm here... Armchair warrior shouters, go ahead.

I am tending to get the impression that these days, contributors to this forum are too busy slapping backs to think about what may be happening on the ground. Wake up and smell the coffee guys. GO to Afghanistan. GO to Basrah. FOR GOD'S SAKE stop smacking harrier pilot's backs.
YES they do a good job, and so they should.
So do the Herc crews.
So do the C17 crews.
More importantly, so do the Following: The Provisional Reconstruction teams (i.e. Infantry), the Search teams (RAF Regiment and RAF Police), the ground support crews (drivers, fuellers, suppliers, mechs, techs, met, etc etc etc.)
I could... and probably should go on.

These people lay their lives on the line EVERY SINGLE DAY. We forget them at our peril. I've been out on patrol with them, and they do this without your support, without your thanks, and even (most apparently) without your knowledge.

Next time you slap the fly boys on the back for doing a good job, remember that they're not the only ones.

And by the way, for those levelling the hawk "armchair warrior" thing at me, I am an ex 16 Sqn Tornado pilot, Gulf 1 for your info. (Laarbruch 89 - 92). Some of you really need to get your glasses on and stop backslapping so much.

Last I saw, there was no RAF aircraft shot down in Afghanistan or Iraq recently.

Are you suggesting that we should only praise downed aircrew?

I bet you're a barrell of laughs to have in the front of a GR4 or the back of a Hawk.

What's up? Fed up of being stuck at Valley, missing out on the action.
Or, could it be that nobody slapped your back when you got back from GW1???

This is a military aircrew forum and is the PERFECT PLACE TO PAT OUR HARRIER, SH, AH & MULTI MATES ON THE BACK. I'm sure the pongos will be slapping backs on the army forum...

The army do not have a bad word to say about the GR9 guys & girl out there. The SH guys are doing the bizz, as are the muti mates. In a nutshell, the RAF is playing a massive role in keeping the Paras alive out there so, bloody well done. :D

I wish the Tonka could go out & give the Harriers a break, I really do.

People are banging on about how we are treated as second class citizens on the 'uniforms at uk airports' thread and yet, suggest that we shouldn't even offer praise internally. If we don't come across as proud of our actions & those of our fellow servicemen, how do you expect the British public to do anything different?

[superserong]

QFIhawkman:"Any chance we can pat backs even more?
Without even acknowledging the ground forces?"
superserong:"military pilots and other ISAF in Afghanistan!"
believe that mentions pretty much everyone concerned.
cheers
ss:ok:

[Fox_4]

CAS Stack - the emergency banter handle is where on the hovering, airshow hairdryer??

Single seat?! Why are you not on Typhoon if you are that good?!

Only askin`? Love the banter! Too serious these threads at times

:ugh:

[Alistair Kayim]

CAS Stack - the emergency banter handle is where on the hovering, airshow hairdryer??

Single seat?! Why are you not on Typhoon if you are that good?!

Only askin`? Love the banter! Too serious these threads at times

:ugh:

You know the truth, the best pilots have always been sent to the Harrier, and that is still happening today - even more so than ever before. We need highly motivated and talented operators on the Harrier, any old ex fighter puke can sit in the Q shed for days on end :}

Of course this is the right forum to pat our fellow winged warriors on the back - who else is going to do it?:D

As for QFIHawkloser, don't assume anyone else at Valley shares his meaningless opinions!