Zoom Airlines - how not to run customer service

[GreatCircle]

Today, ladies and gents, Missus Great Circle is at STN awaiting the delayed departure of Z4 413 to YYZ. As she is married to a heavy bus driver she understands tech issues, safety and the like.

So, she would understand why her 76 bus is delayed - not an issue. But what she can't understand as she is now just boarding the Boyle Brothers tired 763:

1. Handlers at STN had no clue where the plane was - and it was at the 15.30 dpearture time. It's now 17.00 in the UK - and they might board. Maybe.

2. I sniffed around, and found out the plane was sitting beside it's sister ship at LGW, after coming in from AMS after having a tech issue solved by KL who have their contract. In tandem, Missus Great Circle speaks to Zoom's reservation agents in Glasgow, who tell her the plane is airborne. She calls to tell me it's such a smooth ride, she thinks she hasn't left the ground. I call the young lass in Glasgow to see what she says - and she said, it's taken off, and gives me an ETA - which is of course, rubbish.

3. I then call Z4 in Ottawa, who tell me the plane cannot possibly be in LGW, and I shouldn't listen to someone who wouldn't know. I explain it all to the lady - who then becomes irritated because I know more than her. She won't put me through to the dispatchers, nor to Boyle's office.

4. I call a buddy at LGW who tells me the aircraft is now pushed and on its way for the hop to STN, where it duly landed after about 20 mins. I phone the missus and tell her.

5. The agents still have no clue what is going on, until the Z4 Blue and White machine turns towards its stand....apparently they told Missus Great Circle it was turned around and catered at LGW, and all they had to do is shove on the bags and pax - so out at 16.00.

6. The aircraft went tech - but Boyle and co. put "UK Airspace Slot Restrictions" on their website. Crap.

7. Food, at 16.30 was being loaded on. So double catered. Must be a feast :ugh:

8. Handling Rep tells me plane is airborne - it's actually just getting ready to go.

9. On the eastbound trip, service was described as pathetic, vile and the plane "tired". It was so bad, she would've endured the flight to LGW on my outfit (not sure that was much of a compliment)...but STN is easier given the SE England traffic...

Points.

1. To the Boyle Lads, who made 84 million quid from selling their bucket shop, and getting cash in from a pal at a Scottish Bank - sort out your operation, and ensure handling, and Zoom personnel KNOW what they are talking about- which they clearly don't. Pathetic.

2. Sort out the way you treat the crews.

3. Listen to what PAX are saying and stop counting the readies with your blinkers - keep this up and they'll be deserting you in droves.

4. If you offer a Premium Product - benchmark it against Club Transat and AC Club (not full Exec of course) - and make something of it. Cheap and nasty drink, and nosh in a tiny foil container doesnt cut it. Neither does thin and cheap seats.

Z4's advert - everything with a smile - but if the service, information and everything else is crap, the smile is meaningless.

Now, who wants to wade in and tell me to calm down, as TS, AC etc etc have their days too of course:hmm: ....

[PPRuNeUser0199]

I once stood at a gate looking out only to see nothing and on the phone with ops asking where the plane was only to be assured it was there waiting for me.:hmm:
Some things never change always good to have a maint cell number to by pass the BS patrol:ok:

[rotornut]

Shades of Jetsgo:eek:

[GreatCircle]

Oh god Rotornut, can you imagine....shades of JG indeed...perhaps LeBlanc is back, wearing a kilt.

Well, at least the Missus is in the air, somewhere at the early stage of a nat-track heading home, 5.30 to go.

Called Zoom again, "Sorry sir the plane is still on the ground, no idea when it'll arrive". I informed the gal that push took place at 18.14 local(according to a pal) and wheels up confirmed at 18.39 local. She was "surprized"...I then asked to speak to customer service....but they don't take calls. Only letters and email...

The delay isn't the issue - after what we saw and experienced first hand myself in the UK last week, not a problem, but the cack-handed nonsense all the way from Z4 HQ to the Handling Agent to Zoom UK Staff....is an issue - as is what has been labelled mis-representation of a product by the missus.

Lesson - don't muck around with a lawyer - especially one like she who must be obeyed....,:E

Boyles' Balls be aware:ok: (oh and wear protection under yer kilts)

[PPRuNeUser0199]

Shades of Jetsgo:eek:
How did you know?:rolleyes:

[Married a Canadian]

I slagged off Zoom on an earlier Airports and Airlines thread...and got shouted down by various people.

Funny how the same problems keep cropping up.

They changed the schedule on my wife (the week of our wedding) so all our onward travel arrangements were shot.
My wife rang them up (a week before she was due to fly) to ask why. The customer service agent hummed and haaed...and then said "weather"....
Hmmmmmmm!!!

When I rang up and told the agent that I worked in the industry...I got a lot of rudeness about how "I should understand the problems of running an airline"

As with Great circle...I do..but the customer service and the lack of product sure keep me away from dem Zoom boys now!!

[GreatCircle]

I slagged off Zoom on an earlier Airports and Airlines thread...and got shouted down by various people.

Funny how the same problems keep cropping up.

They changed the schedule on my wife (the week of our wedding) so all our onward travel arrangements were shot.
My wife rang them up (a week before she was due to fly) to ask why. The customer service agent hummed and haaed...and then said "weather"....
Hmmmmmmm!!!

When I rang up and told the agent that I worked in the industry...I got a lot of rudeness about how "I should understand the problems of running an airline"

As with Great circle...I do..but the customer service and the lack of product sure keep me away from dem Zoom boys now!!

We'll have spoken unknown to each other...your English accent and my British/Canadian tones are readily identifiable on the R/T!

Z4's a zoo. The cabin staff (FAs to be PC) mean well, seem eager to please, are young (paid nickels) and know they are given crap to do - e.g. carts where trays don't fit; meals fit for the pig-sty, seats that are frayed, trying to sell snacks in Premium (hello? what the heck??? ), operations run on pennies, ambitious schedules and crap T+Cs. A total and utter mess.

The drivers - some have to be ex-3000, will all be good guys...let's hope the Boyles don't squeeze the puss of it (pun fully intended).

AND NOW LADIES AND GENTS - THE LATEST.

Missus Great Circle, aka pissed lawyer, attempts to make contact with Z4, or OOM if you are an ICAO junkie, to discuss her experiences and how Zoom felt about her compensatory proposals.

Got an agent on phone - sorry won't put her through. Letters only. Told her it wasn't her job to listen to complaints. Wife asked for the non-general number, was told they don't give it out. Lady then tells her to "move along please"....Bad move.

Missus Great Circle through dastardly deeds, finds the number of Boyles' Buses in Ottawa, a different number, and makes contact. Receptionist is startled asking how the number was sourced - and gets through to Hughie's office. No joy.

FedEx already on the way to Ottawa with views of her experience, names and seat numbers she collated of those unhappy on Z4 413, copy of their service claims vs. what was received, and a polite request for compensation - and a suggestion to remove misleading crock.

God knows what she'll do next - but I'll happily post instalments here....if you're interested.

[MarkD]

GC - keep it coming. Zoom is badly needed to keep TS, AC honest but not so much as to take the p!ss.

[CD]

:{
CTA: Air Travel Complaints (http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/cta-otc2000/menu_e.html)

[GreatCircle]

GC - keep it coming. Zoom is badly needed to keep TS, AC honest but not so much as to take the p!ss.

Agreed MarkD....no argument there...competition always welcomed...but they are taking the piss. OOM crews welcomed, and just because I am TSC, doesn't mean I can't take it on the chin either...

[GreatCircle]

:{
CTA: Air Travel Complaints (http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/cta-otc2000/menu_e.html)

Cheers CD..hope all well....

I think the FedEx to Boyles will have good effect...

[MarkD]

GC - I'm flying with your lot CYYZ-EINN on 29.9 so tell 'em to be on time :ok:

[GreatCircle]

GC - I'm flying with your lot CYYZ-EINN on 29.9 so tell 'em to be on time :ok:

Don't sit behind the curtain, we can't have you squeezed in so tight that you'll get deep vein thrombosis :}

If you get to Limerick, grab a pint at W.J. Souths on Quinlan St...

[brucelee]

[QUOTE=brucelee]Originally Posted by MarkD
GC - keep it coming. Zoom is badly needed to keep TS, AC honest but not so much as to take the p!ss.
Agreed MarkD....no argument there...competition always welcomed...but they are taking the piss. OOM crews welcomed, and just because I am TSC, doesn't mean I can't take it on the chin either...
Gentlemen. AC service is one of the best in the N. Atlantic. Not by my bias but many pax I've spoken to. No need to keep us honest. Competition is good. Keep it coming. We'll see ya gone. Just a matter of time Thanx.

[GreatCircle]

Agreed Bruce. ACA Exec 1st as good as BAW Club. Many say so. And the new lie flat beds will take you to top of the tree. Heard VIR might be back too...

For TSC, in a different market segment, where OOM is a direct competitor, we have different parameters to measure service by, and in the early days, it was ****e, no question. We're getting better. The charade Boyle and Co.'s amateurs put on the other day is reminiscent of the 72 and L1011 days...and is not on....


In the meantime, when do your triple 7s come on stream :ok: ??

PS For anyone on TSC, book early and get a Club seat; the small difference is worth it. Not a sales pitch...just fact.

[brucelee]

Tripple 7s by spring '07. May not see many of these on N.Atlantic as they are mainly for extra long range ie. orient. 787 service for Europe in '09. Meanwhile 767s being refurbed with new interior, sleeper beds.:ok:

[Captaingomes]

GC, interesting story. I work for another Canadian airline, and I had to fly somebody out to GLA last week. The Zoom ticket was purchased one day prior to the trip, and the departure time was 21:30 if I'm not mistaken.

In the mean time, Zoom on the day of departure changed the departure time to 18:30 without any sort of announcement! When I called them about this, they said it's the passenger's responsibility to confirm the departure time within 24 hours.

Fair enough that they would say that, as I'm sure it's stated somewhere on ridiculously fine print. But I find it hard to believe that they would change a departure to 3 hours earlier on the same day. As a side note, the day after, I received an email indicating the changed time. Argh! This alone almost caused my passenger to miss their flight, as they were coming in from Barrie.

On a secondary note, I had the pleasure of flying Club Transat late last year, and I was very impressed with the service. I wish the legroom were slightly better, and of course it would be nice to have a PTV with AVOD, but frankly you get an honest amount of space and comfort, and the service is really fantastic.

[GreatCircle]

Well, Missus Great Circle, aka Pissed Lawyer, spent 3 hours pouring over paperwork yesterday and has identified what she has noted as being gross misrepresentation over service claims.

So, legal letter on the way, complaint to TC in YOW, and advocacy programme in the works....not going to be a good summer for the OOM lads...I feel sorry for the crews, personally having to deal with the complaints as Boyles play with their balls (on the golf course, steady now).

Boyle and Boyle have some high level contacts, like Jack the Lad McConnell, the Scottish 1st Minister and play on their Bellshill roots (hell, I was born a mile away in Motherwell before the Great White North yelled ma and pa from Caledonia), but the difference is, I don't take the piss...

Slightly more than medium chop ahoy...

Captaingomes, thanks for the kind words on Club. It's nice - and it's true the legroom is not generous, and some PVS would be welcome but if it was extended, the price would go up. However, I hear rumours of plans ahead for a revamp, perhaps ahead of fleet renewal - but it's just rumour...

Bruce...76s with new triple 7 style bins and lighting, plus sleeper seats - sound plan till the 78s come along. Sounds good. We got to keep those Brits from stealing the pax !!

[Married a Canadian]

Captain Gomes....as I said..Zoom don't seem to care the their passengers have onward travel arrangements. If they are not careful they will lose a lot of business.

Who wants to make schedules when the carrier you are with reserves the right to change the time by 3 hours with only 24hours notice!

Bruce Lee...Air Canada's economy service is ermmm not very good compared to BA. Not transatlantic anyway. 5 trips now with them and all have been poor. They need to get in decent in flight entertainment and some better cabin crew. I will stick to BA for now.
Someone told me the longhaul flights to Hong Kong and the like on the A340s have seat back TV in economy. Is that right??

Great Circle...there are 3 foreigners on Toronto terminal control. One german lass, one British lass...and then me......the only one who says fife and tree and tow sand..and daycimal and the like!
My sister is flying Trasaat from Gatwick in October. I shall look forward to her comments.

[Number2]

BAW - way too expensive
ACA - too expensive (and frumpy cabin crew)
OOM - cheap, cheerful and never let me (or my family down)

My point - it's all relative to the personal experiences you have.

When I want to go home, I always look at OOM first. Non stop is so much better than ACA via YZ or BA via VR - way too much hassle and expense!

[GreatCircle]

Captain Gomes....as I said..Zoom don't seem to care the their passengers have onward travel arrangements. If they are not careful they will lose a lot of business.

Who wants to make schedules when the carrier you are with reserves the right to change the time by 3 hours with only 24hours notice!

Bruce Lee...Air Canada's economy service is ermmm not very good compared to BA. Not transatlantic anyway. 5 trips now with them and all have been poor. They need to get in decent in flight entertainment and some better cabin crew. I will stick to BA for now.
Someone told me the longhaul flights to Hong Kong and the like on the A340s have seat back TV in economy. Is that right??

Great Circle...there are 3 foreigners on Toronto terminal control. One german lass, one British lass...and then me......the only one who says fife and tree and tow sand..and daycimal and the like!
My sister is flying Trasaat from Gatwick in October. I shall look forward to her comments.

So you're the daycimal chap. AHHA!

Try and get sis into Club. Night and day...the back of the bus is like a pantomine sometimes....wet knickers and oranges :} (I may get fired for that one)

[brucelee]

Bruce Lee...Air Canada's economy service is ermmm not very good compared to BA. Not transatlantic anyway. 5 trips now with them and all have been poor. They need to get in decent in flight entertainment and some better cabin crew. I will stick to BA for now.
Someone told me the longhaul flights to Hong Kong and the like on the A340s have seat back TV in economy. Is that right??

A340s I believe have the screens or are about to have them. Also, 767 will have them as well as sleeper beds. The refurb is happening as we speak. When the new birds arrive, 777/87s you will see a much different airline. As for our cabin crew, sorry. That's out of our hands. Still a hit and miss experience with that one. Some are good, some not.

[Saltaire]

The trouble is that AC has always been behind the curve. Always the promise that we're going to get this or that, never at the forefront of new design or ideas. Economy is plain and simply BAD on most long haul routes such as London, even on the 330's. The 767 economy is horrible.

[cossack]

My MiL arrived last week on Zoom (for about the 6th time!) and again had no issues with them. I did notice the "slot restriction" item on their website when I was checking her arrival time. It made me raise my eyebrows and wonder what was going on
I said on the previous thread that I'd not had any real problems with them, other than a 3 day notice time change which was reversed because they couldn't tell everyone in time.
We have used BA, ACA, OOM, MYT and in October Mrs cossack will try Thomas Cook. BA was an airmiles upgrade to First so it doesn't compare. The others are all much of a muchness: you get what you pay for I think, except ACA which you don't!
Zoom do have issues with a timetable which seems to rely too heavily on too few aircraft, hence short notice changes when the almost inevitable tech issues occur.
DC
British YZ tower guy who does not say day-see-mal!:ok:

[CD]

Hmmmm... This is starting to get interesting... :hmm:
GO Travel Direct files official complaint with the Competition Bureau
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OTTAWA, Aug. 22 /CNW Telbec/ - Following an official complaint by Go Travel Direct to the Competition Bureau the offices of leading Canadian tour operators were visited by the Bureau. The Superior Court of Quebec issued warrants to the Competition Bureau based on information supplied by this Federal Bureau. The information suggests there had been possible illegal practices conducted by Tour Operators unfairly putting pressure on Go Travel Direct, which is in direct contravention of the Competition Act.
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Go Travel Direct was established in 2000 and operates flights during the winter season from Canada to southern sun destinations. Since its conception Go Travel Direct's method of selling directly to the public has been at odds with the Canadian travel industry who have made their products available exclusively via travel agents.
Transat A.T. Inc. confirms investigation by Competition Bureau
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MONTREAL, Aug. 23 /CNW Telbec/ - Transat A.T. Inc. confirms that the Competition Bureau is currently investigating members of the travel industry, including Transat. The Company is cooperating fully with the authorities concerned.
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Transat will issue no further comment at this time.
I wonder if this wee dust-up will affect either of the airlines directly?

[GreatCircle]

The Boyles always cry foul when something doesn't go their way. Breathe on their patch, and the hands go up.

Love to see the basis for the complaint - and assume it is about the way tour side of our business does its multi channel marketing.

As an aside, Boyle and Boyle got their legal letter challenging them on the content of Premium Service along with complaint to TC on alleged safety issues.

Missus Great Circle is on a mission....Mission updates here when known:ok:

[J.O.]

This competition complaint is a major waste of the taxpayers' hard-earned dollars. They're in financial trouble, so they make a desperate ploy to save face. Go Travel Direct has a money-losing summer due to a major overcapacity on the UK - Canada corridor this summer, and they have a lack of hotel capacity in the Caribbean when compared to the number of seats they have on Zoom this winter. So they dream up this little publicity stunt to make the public think the other tour operators are ripping them off. Their difficulty in getting hotel capacity is affected by the fact that their major competitors do business with the Caribbean hotel chains year round, not for five months each winter like Go tries to do.

[CD]

Competition Bureau investigates travel companies
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Canadian Press
.
Thursday, August 24, 2006
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Montreal — Several travel companies in Quebec and Ontario are being investigated for alleged unfair competition, the federal Competition Bureau confirmed Thursday.
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The investigation stems from a complaint by travel operator Go Travel Direct, which says it made a complaint to the bureau in 2003 and has been gathering information for the Competition Bureau since.
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Investigators, acting on search warrants provided by Quebec Superior Court, began visiting travel company offices last week, a bureau spokeswoman said.
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“We are doing searches of the premises of certain Canadian tour operators in the regions of Toronto and Montreal,” said Diane L'Ecuyer, a spokeswoman for the bureau's regional office in Montreal.
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“We are investigating alleged anti-competitive practices by certain companies in the tour operator industry.”
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Holiday travel company Transat A.T. Inc. confirmed it has co-operated with the Competition Bureau investigation but would not make any further comment. Transat A.T.'s travel services include the airline Air Transat.
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Ms. L'Ecuyer wouldn't say which companies or how many are being investigated, pointing out that the inquiry is still under way. She could not say how long the investigation would last.
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“We have to analyze all the evidence and after that we have to refer the case to the attorney general if it's appropriate so it can take some months,” she said.
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Dan Brennan, a spokesman for Go Travel Direct, said the investigation stems from a complaint by his company.
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“Some time ago, Go Travel Direct had placed a complaint with the Competition Bureau stating concerns that we were receiving unfair pressure from the industry, certain players in the industry kind of hindering us from doing our business,” he said.
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Mr. Brennan said the pressure surrounded Go Travel's direct-sale model.
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“I guess the direct-sale model has been unpopular with a lot of the players in the market, so what they've done is they've been putting pressure on hotels for dealing with Go Travel Direct and we felt that this is in contravention of the Competition Act.”
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Go Travel Direct was established in 2000 and operates flights during the winter from Canada to southern destinations. It sells directly to the public, unlike most of the Canadian travel industry, which makes its products available exclusively through travel agents.
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Mr. Brennan said he did not know specifics of the Competition Bureau's investigation but said Go Travel had made its initial complaint in 2003.
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Ms. L'Ecuyer defined anti-competitive practices as instances where companies may have engaged in illegal agreements that will have an impact on competition, such as reducing competition between companies in the same markets or reducing or increasing prices.
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Several industry analysts declined to comment on the investigation, saying not enough details are known.

[Twizzler]

I am not quite sure where to start here. I have been watching this thread off and on for the last week.
GC
Where do you get off calling the kettle black. I can tell a great story of my aunt's flight on TS last month out of BFS. Had to fly with them because Zoom (not Boyle and co.) was SOLD OUT!! Crammed in like sardines (and she is 4 ft nothing), lousy service, miserable cabin crew, shyte food!!!
What I see here is your wife (with the encouragement of you) flying on Zoom, showing up for the flight and trying to find absolutely anything and everything to complain about.
Her flight was delayed...GET OVER IT!!!
Serviceair didn't know what was going on??? Not too suprising!!
Zoom RESERVATIONS not knowing exactly what is going on?? A bit concerning, but not too suprising.
Why don't you tell us what these "alleged safety concerns" are. I would really like to hear it. I know for a fact that Zoom aircraft do NOT fly around with open MELs for very long. The aircraft are very well maintained, one is a bit more tired looking than the others, but that is what that annual C checks take care of.
Also where did Zoom misrepresent themselves wrpt premium service. There is a reason that Zoom's premium sells out before econ. (and it not because of crammed seats in econ like your outfit). Zoom does not have to compare anything to anyone else.
And on a final note you can let your SO know that if she ever flies Zoom again (hopefully not my flight), she can rest assured that she will get to her destination with gas in the tanks and a rudder on the tail!!!!!!
Cheers, ******!! :ok:

[Twizzler]

.
But I find it hard to believe that they would change a departure to 3 hours earlier on the same day.

Capt.

I can tell you that Zoom does not regularly change time of flights, especially earlier. Shedules are tight and delays take a while to get over, but there is are a few breaks built into the schedule to absorb the delays.

Last week was anomoly. Security scare, and a couple of unlucky mechanicals (one actually being the aircraft subchartered by Zoom) leads to sked changes. I would prefer to leave 3 hrs earlier rather than the next day, which could have happened.

Any smart traveller always check the departure time at least 24 hrs prior. I know I do.

[Twizzler]

This competition complaint is a major waste of the taxpayers' hard-earned dollars. They're in financial trouble, so they make a desperate ploy to save face. Go Travel Direct has a money-losing summer due to a major overcapacity on the UK - Canada corridor this summer, and they have a lack of hotel capacity in the Caribbean when compared to the number of seats they have on Zoom this winter. So they dream up this little publicity stunt to make the public think the other tour operators are ripping them off. Their difficulty in getting hotel capacity is affected by the fact that their major competitors do business with the Caribbean hotel chains year round, not for five months each winter like Go tries to do.

Utter BS. Nobody is in any kind of financial trouble. There is no overcapacity anywhere. In fact it is opposite, all flights are SOLD OUT.

GTD may not be doing as well as they would like, but they are not losing anything.

GTD actually does business with the hotels year round, the problem is (and the reason for the competition complaint) you have competitors who are much larger than you threatening to pull contracts if they use GTD. This is a fact! And this not only happened with hotels, but also with aircraft subs (the reason Canjet is not flying for GTD).

Anti competitive??...you decide!

[GreatCircle]

Capt.

I can tell you that Zoom does not regularly change time of flights, especially earlier. Shedules are tight,

Any smart traveller always check the departure time at least 24 hrs prior. I know I do.

Well, we both know that Z4's service is ****e - and I have made reference to TS's basic economy class..it is not brilliant, but is on the way to being improved on multiple levels due to competition...so Z4 is welcome. In terms of Club vs. Premium Z4 - it knocks it out the water. We all know this - and the kids employed in the cabin on Z4 have no clue...not from me, but from multiple sources

I suspect if you fly Z4 with the tight schedules, and Boyles counting the dollars, you DO check if there's a plane on stand...:}

Lastly, obliged if you'd keep your juvenile comments re. my other half to yourself - this thread was started as a result of her experience of pathetic, amateur service, and further sniffing around based on complaints from other consumers. The world is plenty big enough for OOM, TSC and others to co-exist. However, Z4 in my wife's opinion took the mickey, and she's going after it. Inconvenient as she is a well known corporate lawyer maybe....so Hughie and bruv better beware...

I have stated MULTIPLE times we ALL have our bad days - TSC is NO exception....

Twizzler - this is a rumour network, so try not to suffer indigestion...

[GreatCircle]

"GTD may not be doing as well as they would like, but they are not losing anything."

Really... the cynics amongst us will simply wonder why the complaint was made...i.e "not doing as well as they would like..."

Uh-huh ? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[J.O.]

Utter BS. Nobody is in any kind of financial trouble. There is no overcapacity anywhere. In fact it is opposite, all flights are SOLD OUT.

Sold out does not mean profitable. It's all about yield, not bums in the seats. Jetsgo can be used as evidence, in case anyone has forgotten. The reason they're sold out? Pretty simple really, consistently the lowest fares charged between Canada and the UK, and by a fair amount. As for the rest of your rant, GTD suffers from the simple fact that they compete with much larger tour companies who have significant buying power. In order for their business practices to be found anti-competitive, documented evidence of collusion and/or intimidation would have to be found. Rumour and hearsay won't cut it.

[derk]

In Ottawa where i work de-icing aircraft it's a rare event to see zoom require de-icing.Every aircraft will be getting de-iced and and i mean all but then zoom pushes back from gate goes to the button of runway and away he goes sooner or later they will park one of the hunt club bridge.Just spend the money safety first guys.

[Twizzler]

In Ottawa where i work de-icing aircraft it's a rare event to see zoom require de-icing.Every aircraft will be getting de-iced and and i mean all but then zoom pushes back from gate goes to the button of runway and away he goes sooner or later they will park one of the hunt club bridge.Just spend the money safety first guys.


That is a very strong and completly false accusation!! If you do believe this you should not be posting here, you should go to TC.

Not every aircraft needs deiced in every situation. I have never seen the 67 land with ice on the wings(not to say it doesn't happen). Also the aircraft aren't on the ground (in YOW) long enough to accumulate frost. So unless it overnights, is snowing, freezing rain, etc, you won't see the 67 deice.

Money is spent on safety!!!

[Ready]

Twizzler, I agree with your comments.
Derk, please note that to get de-iced or not has become one of the biggest jokes in aviation. Ground people are getting trained and some have not even got on board of a c-150 in their whole life and now have the authority to tell the 20,000 hour pilot to de-ice or not to de-ice....and believe me so many times the airplanes are heading to the de-icing bay and should not and I mean they should not. Safety? Baloney! Incompetence yes.

[gumbi]

And on a final note you can let your SO know that if she ever flies Zoom again (hopefully not my flight), she can rest assured that she will get to her destination with gas in the tanks and a rudder on the tail!!!!!!
Cheers, ******!! :ok:

We'll keep that in mind...:E

[JV]

ummm......why was a well known corporate lawyer flying on a young low cost carrier again?:rolleyes:

[Dan Air 87]

All of the previous posts make for interesting and concerning reading. i am about to book a flight to YVR in December and have a choice of Zoom or BA. Zoom are a little bit cheaper so I wonder what is the experts opinion of their flights and service? I notice that their seat pitch in Y is the same as BA but its a 767-200 against a 747.
Any comments would be muchly appreciated.:)

[JV]

Spot on Dan Air,

Cannot compare on flights and service since I have not flown Zoom. Have flown BA and of course, and it is the worlds favorite airline, and they deserve the mention. Only my opinion, so shoot me down if you choose to.

Surpised that Y class is the same as BA, that would actually be an improvement on the Zoom side, always thought that charters would be squeezed as they usually are.....

767, 747, it's all the same thing; has engines, it flies, isn't that what we care about?

Can't recommend any one of the two right now, won't fall into that trap.......

Bottom line, I am sure that pax will get there in one piece. No matter what the the choice.

Cheers.

JV

:O

[JV]

Sorry, forgot about the etops part,

It's all covered

:8

[MarkD]

Zoom flies 763ERs I think (ex KL) not 762s.

[GreatCircle]

Yup, KLM holds the maintenance contract to fix them.

763s. Thought some came from AF too ? Maybe wrong - some from KL for sure...and most are generally regarded in need of tidying up...

No doubt that comment will start yet another bun fight...:}

[p290951]

I have just flown YYZ/GLA/YYZ over a two week period.Great ride both ways and the food was just fine. I had no problems with dep. and the ETA was right on.
Whats the beef!!

[TERRIER two]

Just paxed on two Zoom flights. Crew were excellent. No operational problems. All round pleasant experiences. Don't know any airlines that don't run into some problems occasionally.

[Fidgell]

I regularly fly between the UK and Toronto and have used various carriers for such a trip, and yes I also work in the industry. Here are my observations...

1st TCX by far my favorite (no connection to me I add). Best economy legroom and seating Ive had. Food was rubbish but then it always is - I go to restaraunts for my good food! Always been on time and staff excellent as is the price.

2nd BAW as good as youd expect but at a price!

3rd MYT (might travel). AWFUL in every respect bar the excellent staff doing a fantastic job in the worst possible environment. Food even more inedible, ailing airframes which seem to find punctuality impossible and accomodation onboard that make me envy my dogs crate!!! Simply terrible!

VERY LAST (4th sounds too good for them even out of 4 ) OOM. I have never experienced such an amateur bunch of imbeciels as this lot. See MYT multiplied by a thousand. Everything about this shambles of a company and embarrasment of an airline prevents every ounce of my soul even attempting to look up a fare and book.... if it were free Id still rather throw my hard earned down the BAW grids! Why when I book do OOM need to change my flight times and dates 5 times? Why doesnt any other carrier do this? Why on the day before departure do customer hinderance think Im unreasonable for not getting excited over a choice of having a refund or losing 12 days of a 16 day trip on which Ive booked accom. cars etc?

I wouldnt send my worst enemy with DOOMed airlines and will party in the streets the day the inevitable happens... yes they sell out but cancelling and consolodating flights to fill them is not a sign of success but the final acts of a sinking ship!

It will be goodbye and good riddence! Mr T would need more than a glass of milk to board these blue monsters, and he'd pity the fool that did!

[ex-EGLL]

Just back from a YOW-GLA-YOW trip, first time on ZOOM. Normally go Air Canada. Zoom 5 minutes from check-in to Airside, Air Canada 30+ minutes.

On time (in fact early) departure, Air Canada usually 20-30 minutes late.

Aircraft interior clean and comfortable, OK leg room. Air Canada, old, tired and held together with duct tape

Crews were young and friendly, Air Canada old and grumpy

Good value for money.


Would I fly them again, absolutely

ex-egll

[Fidgell]

So the losers at Zoom just get better.... After my multiple flight changes I arrive at YYZ last night for my flight to Manchester 20:05 departure. AT check in Im informed the arriving flight (if it existed which I dont see anywhere) from New Zealand is late so the Zoom/Globespan (another terrible shower of s***) geniuses have a plan! The 767 I booked with my seat allocation etc has been subbed out for..... a 737 and now we're going via Iceland!!! WOW what a great airline this is !!! So that proves this airline is struggling to fill their flights then or are we sitting 3 a seat? We get to the gate and WOW another treat the radio doesnt work??!! So several hours pass and nothing is updated... I finally arrive at Manchester after THE worst experience on the WORST aircraft Ive ever been on!

Yippee I cant wait for my return flight, Ive never been to Argentina!!!!!!

Go ZOOM.... no seriously, GO!

[CD]

You do know, of course, that Zoom does not own any 737's. So, what carrier did you actually fly with?

[Fidgell]

As I stated it was a Globespan/Zoom flight.....

[UKflyer777]

I think your beef is with Globespan not Zoom. You do know that was a Globespan flight and not Zoom. As stated Zoom does not own any 737's NOR fly to New Zealand.

[UKflyer777]

As I stated it was a Globespan/Zoom flight.....

I looked it up and you were on Globespan. Is that not who you booked through? Zoom doesn't even operate a flight to MAN from YYZ on Fridays. Did you not notice the plane/logos inside/safety card as to what airline you were on? How about your credit card statement? Were you charged by Globspan...

[Fidgell]

As stated on my original thread, I booked Zoom, they changed my date and time several times and ended up with a departure on a Friday. Yes as I stated it was a globespan 737, yes I know Zooms fleet and routes... THATS my point!!! Zoom have seriously dropped the ball on this one. I cannot have much complaint with Globespan other than a dirty cabin and loooonnnggg flight with delay, the worst legroom and lack of IFE. I paid Zoom for a flight on a 767 direct to Manchester with an extra legroom seat... I got a crappy flight delayed by several hours then via Iceland on the wrong day at a changed times numerously. Now if anyone finds that acceptable... GREAT go with DOOMed, as for me Im dreading the return flight. I hope I dont have to explain this AGAIN...

Oh how's that legal fight going that was the start of this thread, good luck I hope you win they deserve it!

[diesel36]

just to put things straight for you

flyglobespan and zoom codeshare, so thats why you book with zoom but could go on flyglobespan, book with flyglobespan you could go on zoom.

all depends what day your travelling.

yes your flight was on gsm 737-800

only because another 767-300 was late being delivered to gsm

that is now here so your return will be on the 767.

these things happen,

[Jet_stream]

Fidgell

If you're return flight is booked on the GSM/Zoom codeshare flight, this will be on the GSM 763 which has now arrived.

The 763 was late on its' delivery flight from NZ, so that's why the 738 was used.

[Fidgell]

Zoom inform me the return will be on their own 767.... fingers crossed for my final ever Zoom flight. I will always use TCX in future! Thanks for the info.

[Twizzler]

my final ever Zoom flight. I will always use TCX in future!


Good, one less a**hole to worry about!!:{

These things happen to all airlines. get over it!!!

[Fidgell]

Good, one less a**hole to worry about!!:{
These things happen to all airlines. get over it!!!

Ah by your professional tone I guess you must work for Zoom, very intellegent post that one...thank you for proving my point. If youve nothing to contribute professionally or intellegently then please go back to your toys! Hoped people like this had been removed from PPRuNe!?!

[Number2]

Fidgell

With all your ranting and raving, you hardly sound professional. If you don't like Zoom, don't use them. There are plenty of people that will use them in your place.

Now put your teddies back in the cot and settle down! :)

[Fidgell]

Well, if you'd be happy with all the date/time changes, delays, aircraft changes, route changes, etc then by all means book with Zoom - as for myself I prefer better service.... if that's me ranting then Im happy to rant on, as for toys, prams and babys maybe all number2s should be deposited in their appropriate place!!!:}

[Fidgell]

Number2, if you can read Im sure youre capable of seeing that I have attacked NOBODY except for the company Zoom, the only "attacking" going on here started with with Twizzler attacking GreatCircle - maybe your post wasmeant for them..... then Twizzler hurled name calling my way so I responded in the appropriate way as abusive insults dont really go here.

Next time please get your facts straight before accusing, thank you....

YAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNN, you still here son?:)

[Fidgell]

Then I was completely wrong.... you cant read!