BA, Thieving B@st&rds

[puff m'call]

My wife is on an internal flight with BA and has been told she MUST check in her vanity case, but that then takes her over the 1 piece of laggage per person so she has to pay 15 quid. :ugh:

Talk about taking advantage and cashing in!!! Gits :E

[dv8]

Flybe Suspends In-Airport Baggage Charges
As a result of the heightened security at UK airports today, for those passengers that have not pre-paid for their baggage there will be no charge for placing baggage in the aircraft hold. Flybe will continue with this policy throughout the critical risk period. Flybe will post further information to this website as it becomes available.

[Kalium Chloride]

...her vanity case...


I'm sure there's a lesson here about the price of vanity.

[chandlers dad]

I'm sure there's a lesson here about the price of vanity.

There is a lesson here and it does not have a lot to do with vanity. Making money off of pax who have no choice is closer to the truth.

[Speedpig]

My wife is on an internal flight with BA and has been told she MUST check in her vanity case, but that then takes her over the 1 piece of laggage per person so she has to pay 15 quid. :ugh:
Talk about taking advantage and cashing in!!! Gits :E

Was this at the airport just prior to departure, or was this advice given before leaving home?
If you're at the airport already, then leniency is the rule of the day. If you haven't left home then expect to pay for it. If leniency at the airport has not been shown, I'm very surprised.

[Fish Out of Water]

Sure you can afford it anyway, what with your Dubai lifestyle. And I bet you're used to your wife costing you money anyhow - anyone that has a vanity case must be a bit ott, esp one that you can't fit inside a main bag. Was/is she a hostie per chance! As you put it :ugh:

[spud]

Bit unfair there Fishy. Being from the UAE doesn't meen you can't be ripped off. Profiting from the current kerfuffle at the expense of pax is hardly something you'd expect from 'The World's Favourite Airline'.:ok:

[Hotel Mode]

What was the combined weight of the 2 cases? The domestic excess bag charge should be £30. Also surely you would know the restictions on hand luggage by now and packed in a single case accordingly?

[chandlers dad]

Bit unfair there Fishy. Being from the UAE doesn't meen you can't be ripped off. Profiting from the current kerfuffle at the expense of pax is hardly something you'd expect from 'The World's Favourite Airline'.:ok:

Agree and it should not matter where someone is from. I might be able to afford a lot but giving it to BA when its not needed nor deserved is not my idea of a good idea.

[SLFguy]

Original post said "My wife IS on..." not "My wife WAS on..." so I guess that means today. Unless you have been in the middle of nowhere for the past few days it would seem blindingly obvious what the current security issues are and would of thought it child's play to suss out what was going to happen when you pitch up with a 'vanity case'.

[CPilotUK]

Unless you have been in the middle of nowhere for the past few days it would seem blindingly obvious what the current security issues are and would of thought it child's play to suss out what was going to happen when you pitch up with a 'vanity case'.
Exactly my thoughts.

[BOAC]

To be fair to this poster - IF his wife had flown in from abroad with a non-BA carrier, would you EXPECT her to know 'what the dickens' the UK was up to?

[puff m'call]

Thanks BOAC, one of the few with someting sensible to say and not jumping to stupid conclusions.

And Just For SLF Guy.....WAS!

She was charged the 15 quid because it was a second hold item and could not be fitted into the case.

The two items combined were still below the 23kg allowance for a domestic flight.

But yes as someone rightly said, I can afford it living in the "sand pit" on my "film star salary"

Just p1sses me off when they take advantage of a situation

[Loose rivets]

I'm bewildered at some of the answers, some of them would be considered offensive on JB, let-alone here.

Clearly the airline had a duty to carry the legal weight wherever it's put, unless it had made it quite clear–at the time of ticket sale–that special circumstances were necessary due to the crisis.

The issue is one of principal, not whether their customer should have figured things out for themselves. I personally would be going for compensation on this one...as a matter of principal.

[hobie]

surely you would know the restictions on hand luggage by now and packed in a single case accordingly?

A guy I know popped his laptop and Ipod into his rucksack per instructions and low and behold collected his baggage at his destination and guess what ? ..... yep, no iPod or laptop :(

still, at least he wasn't charged for extra baggage :D

[chandlers dad]

A guy I know popped his laptop and Ipod into his rucksack per instructions and low and behold collected his baggage at his destination and guess what ? ..... yep, no iPod or laptop :(

still, at least he wasn't charged for extra baggage :D

My question is, just where in the hell is the security who is checking these thieves as they walk out after their shift? Why are they not searched both going in and coming out?

If they did not come in with a laptop or Ipod, (and we know that neither are now allowed) then how in the world are they being allowed to walk out with one??

[matt_hooks]

CD, I think the fact is there is such a concentration on ingoing screening, and such a shortage of staff, that getting things OUT of the airport will be pretty easy!

After all, things going out don't pose a great immediate security risk.

What worries me more is that the people who are doing the stealing must be the very people employed to screen the baggage and make the airport secure. It hardly speaks volumes for their trustworthiness!

[el !]

c.d. don't you remember our wise bjcc gave us all the answers in the other threads:
... uk airports are private property ...
... police cannot do anything in such areas ...
... airlines not collaborating ...

sound like a lot of convenient b.s. to me.

[Railgun]

The two items combined were still below the 23kg allowance for a domestic flight.

On a UK domestic flight the baggage allowence at the moment is 1 piece up to 32kg. Not 2 pieces weighing under a 23kg limit.

[chandlers dad]

After all, things going out don't pose a great immediate security risk.
What worries me more is that the people who are doing the stealing must be the very people employed to screen the baggage and make the airport secure. It hardly speaks volumes for their trustworthiness!

Ha! Think again! The security risk I am concerned about is the security of our jobs. When too many pax get home and find that they have been robbed blind, and the airline nor security does anything about it, they will NOT FLY ANYMORE and we as pilots will not be needed.

EL,

Agree and it is very convenient BS. Read above and it needs to be fixed and now before we lose our passengers, and thus our jobs.

[el !]

On a UK domestic flight the baggage allowence at the moment is 1 piece up to 32kg. Not 2 pieces weighing under a 23kg limit.

Curiosity: what about people combining nat.l and int.l travel in the same ticket. Given that the concept of single piece weighting like a locomotive is unknown to the rest of the world.

[bealine]

Before making accusations of baggage handling theft along the lines of "I know a man who ......." or "I met a man down the pub who told me.......", can you please supply some evidence!

British Airways has provided CCTV's at ALL areas at LHR and LGW where baggage is handled and on many of our aircraft CCTV's are installed in the holds themselves. I suggest anyone who accuses BA's men of theft is either lying to make a fraudulent insurance claim (whoever would do such a thing!), the bags have gone astray or labels gone missing.

[SXB]

I do well over 100 sectors per year and have been doing so for a number of years and I have never, ever had an item stolen from my luggage while in the care of an airline. I have had bags lost completely on occasion though. Also, I often stow my laptop in my hold baggage if I don't need it or don't want to carry hand luggage.

In my experience it's the thieving b*astards who work in hotels you need to worry about, I've had all sorts of things stolen from hotel rooms, even my wedding ring on one occasion, try explaining that to the wife, though she knows I never wear it when sleeping so she accepted my explanation of forgetting to put it on the following morning and it not being there at the end of the day. I've also had things stolen from those in-room safes.

[el !]

SXB, just a different kind of luck and misfortune. I had stuff stolen from hold baggage (boy I'm begging to talk like you Brits, that is checked-in baggage) but never anything taken in the hotels. In fact I had forgot stuff in hotels and they kept it safe waiting for me to come back.
It happens a lot, see everyone across the board is complaining.
So the terrorist Big Scare had made the Smart Fat August for someone.

[spork]

Well of course puff m’call is talking about being robbed by BA with their baggage charge. A bit like my thread here, a £40 charge by Continental for bags shipped without the passenger, with the charge being for not collecting them off the carousel!

I really sympathise with people in those victimised jobs like the Post Office and Baggage Handling. Almost without exception, here on pprune, the baggage handlers are slagged off as ALL being thieves. How would you like it if instead it was “all pilots are philanderers” or “all CC are lazy”? A gross insult to hard working people, that really has to stop.

[el !]

Before making accusations of baggage handling theft along the lines of "I know a man who ......." or "I met a man down the pub who told me.......", can you please supply some evidence!
British Airways has provided CCTV's at ALL areas at LHR and LGW where baggage is handled and on many of our aircraft CCTV's are installed in the holds themselves. I suggest anyone who accuses BA's men of theft is either lying to make a fraudulent insurance claim (whoever would do such a thing!), the bags have gone astray or labels gone missing.

Your post is an insult to everyone that has suffered an airport theft now or in the past. You should post your postal address so citizens of integrity could fill your mailbox with copies of the reports filed. Then refund all of them for the postage. And your postman to curse you for the extra load.
Not to mention that illuminated forumite, former airport police that kept telling us just yesterday how the poor police could not do anything becase they are not allowed to place cameras in private property and how the airlines are not collaborating.
Another example of typical Aviation Business Fingerpointing.

[TightSlot]

Cool It!

Please keep this thread off the personal, and on the facts!

[el !]

Well of course puff m’call is talking about being robbed by BA with their baggage charge. A bit like my thread here, a £40 charge by Continental for bags shipped without the passenger, with the charge being for not collecting them off the carousel!
I really sympathise with people in those victimised jobs like the Post Office and Baggage Handling. Almost without exception, here on pprune, the baggage handlers are slagged off as ALL being thieves. How would you like it if instead it was “all pilots are philanderers” or “all CC are lazy”? A gross insult to hard working people, that really has to stop.

Who is generalizing exactly and why this noble defense of the working class should make me feeling guilty of simpathizing with crime victimes ?

Fact: some employees were stealing before and they are now. Condemnation of crime does not imply prejudice toward the category.

I got an €200 cellphone stolen in the mail (not in the UK) and almost one year later, a €30 refund check. No more post shipping for me thanks.

[SXB]

el!

I also work with other people who travel as much as I do and I don't ever remember any of them mentioning theft from baggage, we all carry high value IT and other equipment as well.

I think the incidences of theft from baggage is one of those things which is assumed by the public to happen très souvent but in actual fact is extremely rare, or is in my experience.

The airlines and airport operators are aware of the perception of the public and do everything possible to prevent theft from bags.

[SXB]

Fact: some employees were stealing before and they are now. Condemnation of crime does not imply prejudice toward the category

You're generalising and you shouldn't. Stick to the facts.

[Speedpig]

This has gone way off thread.
There is another thread (which I am unable to find) referring to the new hold and cabin baggage policy which restricts the amount/weight of hold baggage but gives a generous cabin allowance (if it fits in the guage, you can carry it on regadless of weight). Certain outside influences have changed all that for the moment, with until today, NO carry on allowed. The guages were reintroduced today with inserts to reduce the size allowable. Guess who set the new limit? Not BA, not BAA, but the DoT.
In my first post, I stated that leniency was the rule at LGW today for bags not fitting in the guage having to be put in the hold ie no charge. I know that for a fact as I was one of those making that decision.
I have also mentioned in a previous post that I spent some years as a baggage handler at LGW. I resent comments about theft from baggage. Even 20 years ago, the one person I know who attempted theiving from a bag was dismissed instantly having been caught on CCTV - he never even knew where the camera was and his fate was applauded by those that he worked with and tarnished the reputation of.
I know that theft was rife at one time, but at Gatwick at least, I believe it to be non existent. You would be amazed at what falls unaided from bags which the public believed to be secure at the time of check-in... shoes, money, dildos to name a few. It is usually impossible to identify which bag the items come from, and rest assured the last items were never claimed for. There are also people who claim for things that were never in their bags in the first place:* I know you will find that difficult to believe.

[chandlers dad]

Before making accusations of baggage handling theft along the lines of "I know a man who ......." or "I met a man down the pub who told me.......", can you please supply some evidence!

British Airways has provided CCTV's at ALL areas at LHR and LGW where baggage is handled and on many of our aircraft CCTV's are installed in the holds themselves.

I suggest anyone who accuses BA's men of theft is either lying to make a fraudulent insurance claim (whoever would do such a thing!), the bags have gone astray or labels gone missing.

Here you go! One of my FA was deadheading home from London and her $5000 watch was lifted from the bags. Was with her the entire time and she does not play games like saying it happened when it did not. Evidence? Well she filed a police report the next time she was in London but I do not have a copy of it. Been three years now and not a peep from anyone about the watch.

There you go! When is the apology coming for calling people liars?

[el !]

No apology will be coming c.d.

SLF is a rigidly moderated forum, this is pprune, and as soon certain arguments or categories are touched, one is immediately accused of generalizing, insulting or lying.

I was searching for your original post about the watch theft because I wanted to reference it here, but can you still find it? I can´t. Watch out, because direct language is not tolerated as well.

Speedpig,
can you accept that denouncing a crime DOES NOT criminalize the category or line of work in which it happened? Some pilots have been caught drinking, counterfeiting documents, smuggling substances. There are hundreds of thousand of pilots in the word, so when news like that is reported, nobody feels an obligation to be solidal. They are called criminals by their very same colleagues, in this very pprune, without a problem.

But strangely, lamenting airport theft raises the ire of even who is not working there, in name of what ?

It exist, it is a fact, now what about fighting it instead of fingerpointing again, again and again ?

[Speedpig]

Here you go! One of my FA was deadheading home from London and her $5000 watch was lifted from the bags. Was with her the entire time and she does not play games like saying it happened when it did not. Evidence? Well she filed a police report the next time she was in London but I do not have a copy of it. Been three years now and not a peep from anyone about the watch.
There you go! When is the apology coming for calling people liars?
So, if it was with her the whole time, when was the watch taken?
Did she file a report at her destination airport as well? They have baggage handlers there too.
Why put a $5000 watch in baggage..... if that's where it was taken from?
Has she made an insurance claim?

el ... you're right. An occupation gets tarnished by it's lowest denominator... all rock stars are junkies etc
Airport theft is actively fought and prevented by ALL airlines and Airport Authorities. There was a big case a few years ago where security staff were imprisoned for theft. These were contracted staff working for the airport screening bags (great clear images of the contents) and in a position of such trust they were not monitored. Who got the blame? BA loaders because they were BA passengers' bags that were being screened. The theft was happening before a BA hand touched the bag. So, when generalising, be careful not to point the finger at the airline employee all the time. The handler does not know what the bag contains and doesn't have time or opportunity to go rifling baggage on the off chance.

[SXB]

Well, I can only go by experience but I've now flown, probably, something like 3000 sectors in my business existence and I've never had anything lifted by these "light fingered" baggage handlers. Like I said earlier I also, quite regularly, put my €3000 laptop in my hold baggage and it's always there when I collect my case.

Baggage theft is over estimated by the travelling public, it does happen but it's very rare.

[SXB]

Ps I would also say that if I had a $5000 watch I would never put it in the hold if I felt I couldn't handle it's loss, bags do go missing.

[el !]

SXM, beside the fact you have told us trice your lucky theft free experience, one episode that I that happened to me circa '98, coming from the States to FCO via CDG, I had two boxed computer items in baggage, one arrived one has not. Other, Malpensa 2003, big sting in the sorting room with hidden cameras and relate media attention.
It is quite diminutive for everyone here that we are reduced to bring our own little "evidence" to show you that you´ve been lucky at the best.

[chandlers dad]

Guys,

The watch was in a bag that she wanted to carry with her in the cabin but we were running to make the flight, the majority of the pax were onboard and she was forced against her will to check the bag when all the overhead space was full. It had other things in it but this was the only one missing.

When was it done? Who knows but when she hit CONUS and looked for her watch it was missing.

I personally do not temp the people and keep everything possible that is valuable in a carryon bag but with last weeks events that's not always possible.

[bealine]

No apology will be coming c.d.

That is where you're wrong! I will apologise to a very small number of people who have suffered theft and who have reported it honestly and wihout exaggeration.

However, British Airways is almost watertight as far as baggage security is concerned and I hate to see subjects such as "BA, Thieving B@st&rds" used, and accusations flying around, wihout a shred of evidence, to slate hard-working people who do the most horrible, nasty job in the industry!

To get back on the Original Topic, the baggage allowance is clearly stated - 1 piece at up to 32kg for domestic services. It is a bit harsh to charge excess when the airport authorities are forcing cabin baggage to be checked in, but I feel you haven't made us aware of the full facts - How much other cabin baggage was being checked in? (I say that, as I have never, ever seen anyone travel with just a vanity case in the cabin!

[chandlers dad]

Oh, so BA and BAA and their staff are lily white and the rest of the world are stealing everyone blind? Come on, it happens everywhere no matter what you say.

Please read the recent news reports about people arriving without luggage, only to receive it a day or two later and all the "goodies" missing. I assume that all of that was done in another country other than the UK?

Have lived in only 6 countries in my short life and there were people who are dishonest in everyone of them. Lets realize that it happens everywhere and try to correct it!

CD

PS you forgot the apology for my FA.

[Final 3 Greens]

Let's face the facts, some baggage handlers at Heathrow were caught a while ago pillaging luggage on CCTV during a police operation, so it does happen. I don't recall whether it was a BA or non BA baggage operation.

However, in 28 years of travelling heavily, I have never suffered a theft from checked baggage.

Last year I did have a bag forcibly opened and written off, when it was wrongly delivered to a carousel at Mulhouse aiport, instead of transiting through Basel to Palma.

No doubt that was someone's (FR or UK) customs forces having a look, since none of the contents were taken.

So I agree with the earlier that it is very unfair to label baggage handlers as thieves, but equally I do sympathise with the FA whose loss Chandler's Dad reports, since the data is there to show that some thieving happens.

Purely as an anecdotal aside, I read some time ago that white collar/executive crime is far more frequent than people realise, because it is kept low profile.

[hpcock]

British Airways has provided CCTV's at ALL areas at LHR and LGW where baggage is handled and on many of our aircraft CCTV's are installed in the holds themselves. I suggest anyone who accuses BA's men of theft is either lying to make a fraudulent insurance claim (whoever would do such
a thing!), the bags have gone astray or labels gone missing.[/quote]


Bealine

I take it from your post/quote above that you either work or have worked for BA. I worked at LHR for 4 yrs back in the mid 90's and had a stint as a BFO. I can catergorically tell you that I have seen not only BA staff (ramp handlers & ground staff), but many others from various airlines, having a good root around & pilfering from a number of lost luggage offices.

One example I remember vividly, was a BA member of staff walking out of Term 1 international arrivals @ LHR with 3 sets of brand new skis, & 2 guitars. I would estimate that lot probably put some poor punter out of pocket to the tune of nearlly GBP3000 - 4000.

It was also pretty rife at the interline shed, where it was & probably still is so easy to take a bag of the line, into one of the offices & strip it to pieces.
Yes, we have also been guilty of nabbing the odd carton of fags or a bottle of scotch, but pls do not say that BA staff catergorically do not steal from the airport when clearly they did, & I know that they still do. By the way, this last part of the sentence is continually clarified to me by a number of people that I still keep in touch with at LHR, and many of them work for BA!!

All the best

HPC :ok:

[slim_slag]

bealine, the thread subject referred to the airline, not the people who work within.

One knows the head Customs fellow at a reasonably large airport and he says some of the handlers make an extra £100k a year from the stuff they steal. His solution would be for the airlines to take more responsibility for the baggage entrusted into their care, but nobody seems to care enough to do much about it. Would cost them too much and their liability is limited by law/treaty , and that suiits them just fine.

[WHBM]

I have never had anything stolen. But on two separate occasions my baggage was delivered onto the belt at EGLL with its combination lock turned to 000. This is the default number the manufacturer sets, if you have not changed it then this will open the case. So someone had had a quick go. And it has been say 1 in 25 occasions of arriving there.

[TightSlot]

The problem with this thread (apart from the emotion) is that the evidence cited appears to be anecdotal or personal. There is no doubt that some baggage contents are stolen, regardless of the airport or airline: Travel enough and it will happen to you eventually.

What we are missing are facts. Facts would enable us to ascertain if BA has a greater problem than other carriers at LHR, and also if LHR has a greater problem than other airports: Facts would also demonstrate whether BA & LHR have improved in this respect over the past decade or two.

I anyone has facts, please share them.

[el !]

bealine,
I didn't meant we expected an apology from you for the things missing when you are an employee of an airline. Actually, you don't owe one in no case.
From your posts it emerges that you are a loyal and dedicated contributor with high ethic values. The mere fact that you spend time outside your work to come here and talk about your work again, is something worth to mention.

The reality is that unfortunately these things happens and even if someone is in denial we have plenty of others that can tell they got stuff stolen. No BA or other airline/airport employee should feel embarassed about that, beside uneffective managers supposed to be in charge of security.

The ones that should apologize are the people that on this forum are insinuating that the loss of valuable and sometime unreplaceable items is an invention or an attempt to fraud. But this won't come, because sturdiness and wrong believing often go together.

[Globaliser]

And there I was, innocently thinking that the "thieving" referred to in the OP was the charge for the second bag, which would normally have been carried as cabin baggage but was required by new regulations to be put into the hold.

For BA to charge extra in those circumstances is a bit rich. I'm not sure that I would quite call it "thieving", myself, but I understand where the OP is coming from. I wish that BA had made the leniency/concession clearer at the time.

[apaddyinuk]

HANG ON A SECOND....Am I completely missing something from the origional thread????
The new baggage policy does not come into effect for another few months, this must be a wind up BA BASHING thread with absolutely no proof behind it!
Not to mention that I was working in the terminals yesterday (im actually Cabin Crew who volunteered) and they are not charging people excess under the circumstances unless they are really taking the P.I.S.S!!!
Im sure I missed something completely!