A few pertinent questions

[Phil_R]

Hi,

I've been told it's probably OK for me to ask a few questions here related to research for a script I'm in the process of writing. If anyone finds this intrusive, I do apologise. Likewise, if I'm asking anything which is sensitive security-wise, I'm sure you'll tell me!


- True or false: The time between someone walking into an AFCO and flying an actual sortie as a GR4 pilot would seem to be about three and a half years.

- What would someone's rank lilkely be at this point?

- After joining a squadron, how long would it take before someone fresh from training to be eligible to be deployed on a "real" operation?

- Where would they be living at this point? I've asked this in various places and given that my character is single, various people have said "in the Mess", and others have said "You'd have found somewhere else after a few months".

- Is the Boss the person who runs the squadron, or the whole station?

- Might the boss discuss the progress and abilities of a recently-acquired person with one of his senior aircrew (and what would said senior aircrew's rank be)?

- I understand that navigators aren't called navigators anymore. Going by this forum, is it still common to refer to someone as "a nav" in colloquial speech?

- I have a couple of characters returning from a training exercise. Do they change into civilian clothes and drive home, or drive home then change?

Sorry to throw bullet points at you, thought it was the most concise way. Thanks in advance for any info.

Regards,

Phil

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Phil,

will give you as many answers as possible in the interest of keeping life sane!

3 1/2 years is way to short... afco to oasc (officer selection)would be 4 months, oasc to IOT 6 months, IOT is (now) 32 weeks long, plus a hold post IOT makes it a round year. Thats 1yr 10 months so far, then EFT is 6 months, Linton a year (including hold), 208 at valley 6 months, 19 at valley another 6. Thats 4 years 4 months. OCU and combat ready will be another year or so on top of that, so 5 1/2 years is not unreasonable...

Most likely to be a Flight Lieutenant at this point.

Thats the time it takes to get combat ready, depends on the a/c type. I'm reliably informed that the harrier mates take 2 months to get combat ready, but about 6 would seem pretty normal in the fast jet world.

As for living in vs living out, most people would probably have found at least a place to rent in the local hot spot by that point, as living in the mess gets to be a bit of a drag after a while!

Most people on a Sqn refer to the Sqn Boss as the Boss, as opposed to the station commander.

The rest is for someone in the GR world to answer I feel, but depends how far you're going to drive to go home!

Hope that helps, anyone feel free to contradict me!

[BEagle]

Rude bastard :mad: !!

This seems a genuine and reasoned request - and you have to come up with that sort of stupid comment.

Grow up!

[A2QFI]

If you think that's rude/silly look at the other junk he has posted!

[brickhistory]

One would think that Phil_R gets credit for trying to get it right instead of just making it up as so many media-types do.

[Runaway Gun]

JayKay would probably be the same person who would rip the arrse out of a movie, because it's nothing like the real world.

pba - good answers. :ok:

[tablet_eraser]

Maybe when you've gained the level of respect and affection Beags has, you'll be considered a decent person.

For now, you just seem to be a bit of a tw@t. If you don't like being told what people think, and if you can't reply to a polite, uncontroversial question, might I suggest you bugg€r off and bother someone else?

[Runaway Gun]

Ha! Security...... I can see the book now.

The Iraqi Officer, who I had now nicknamed 'The Doctor' due to his intense interest in my naked and bruised body, began lightly tapping the switch to the interrogation device.

"Sooooo.... you British scumbag pilot" smiled the Doctor, "if you answer my simple questions, I will not get an opportunity to test this new Nipple Frying Torture Machine that was built by our DHE contractors (and it took them seven months to fix it)."

"I cannot answer that quest... errrr statement. Besides, don't call me a pilot, I'm a Navigator" I lied proudly, trying my best to hide mah Scootish accent, just in case his cousin worked in the chemist outside Leuchars.

"Tell me this, or you will cry more than you have ever cried before, you honourable backseater. Firstly, how do I get my allowances through JPA? Secondly, does living in the Officers' Mess become a drag after six months? And finally, but most importantly, did you expect to go through all those long and boring holding jobs?" :oh:

[The Gorilla]

There is such a thing as internet etiquette. Your post was the equivalent of flaming some one from the old days and was indeed quite rude and totally unnecessary. Anybody is welcome to post here and I for one was not aware that it now took five and a half years to get to the front line.

If you can’t or won’t abide by rules of common decency then I suggest you go somewhere else ok?:8

Phil R

Please ignore the more infantile amongst us, a problem with an open forum I am afraid.

[Suckmabobby]

How about you all leave him alone. The last time I looked, this was an open forum where people were entitled to express their opinions.

I for one agree with him in that Beagle needs to get out more!

As for internet etiquette, it seemed a very reasoned and thoughtful debate.

I'm with you Jay!

[Tombstone]

- Might the boss discuss the progress and abilities of a recently-acquired person with one of his senior aircrew (and what would said senior aircrew's rank be)?

- I understand that navigators aren't called navigators anymore. Going by this forum, is it still common to refer to someone as "a nav" in colloquial speech?

- I have a couple of characters returning from a training exercise. Do they change into civilian clothes and drive home, or drive home then change?

Sorry to throw bullet points at you, thought it was the most concise way. Thanks in advance for any info.

Regards,

Phil

Hi Phil,

Pba Target was spot on with his timings, it took me just short of 5 1/2 years to achieve combat ready status.

I lived in the mess at my unit for a little over a year before feeling brave enough to jump onto the property market and move 'outside the wire'. Mess life is ok however, I prefer to be a regular visitor as opposed to actually living there full time.

The Squadron boss would be most likely to speak to his Flight Commanders, Qualified Flying Instructors (QFI) and Qualified Weapons Instructors (QWI) when discussing the progress of an inexperienced pilot. Squadron members grow accustomed to each other fairly quickly & as a result, we do get to know each others strengths and weaknesses.

Navs are still navs! This whole Weapons System Officer thingy is something that will take a long time to become the norm. The Navs who earned their brevets prior to the branch renaming are clinging onto their old brevets will do until they leave the service. As a pilot, I find it all rather amusing!

Most RAF personnel travel home in uniform as it is normally only a short journey for most people. Some people choose to put on a civvy jacket whilst driving, a practice that used to be far more common during the last few decades of constant threat from organisations like PIRA. It's difficult to hide what you do for a living if you live in quarters close to the unit.

Hope that helps a little, feel free to PM me if you have any other queries I can help you with.

Edited to remove a rather obvious spelling misteak...

[Phil_R]

Hi,

Thanks very much for the wealth of info.

Hohum, I thought I might end up apologising for this. I'll try to keep it off the forum in the future.

To anyone who thinks I'm being inappropriate, I can only apologise. It might be helpful to mention that I do occasionally work for a couple of UK broadcasters of whom you'd have heard, and when I am not being a starving-artist independent filmmaker, I'm usually a news cameraman and I get precious little choice in how a story is told. I wouldn't be doing this kind of research, the correspondent/director would be. Only they wouldn't, because they often don't bother, as we are all very well aware.

So, I'm usually as much victim of "knobcheese journos" as anyone else, I just have to deal with them personally.

Thanks again,

Phil

[PPRuNeUser0211]

no apologies required phil, those of us who have worked with journos good and bad in the past know its important to actually talk to them rather than just leaving them out in the cold!

[Pontius Navigator]

One point not mentioned, a new aircrew also 'belong' to PTC until they become operational.

All through the OCU and thru the opqual phase they are subject to overview by the appropriate MOD training sub-committee. They are not discussed by name but as a statistic. In the case of very small populations in is often easy to know who is being referred to.

At one meeting I was at, the multi-engine nav committee, a particular fully-qualified navigator was being re-roled through particular on-squadron conversion. His opening shot was to 'tell' the staff that he would start on a Tuesday as he could not travel on a Sunday. Then on week one he said he needed to finish mid-day Friday. He did not last long and was 'up for disposal' again.

[teeteringhead]

Phil

no-one seems to have mentioned the "Boss discussing progress with others" question. Most certainly yes. The boss - a wg cdr - would discuss the newbies frequently with his execs, who would be his XO (second-in-command) flight commanders and QFI and QWI (the latter being flying and weapons instructors). They would usually be sqn ldrs.

In fact, they would probably be the source of information about the progress and would report back to the Boss. And of course - every sqn is different!

And may I join the corporate apology for the pr@t JayKay - I hope the explanation was a bad hangover or a saturday lunchtime sesh ..... even if he had serious concerns about security (as he claims) there is no excuse for such appalling rudeness....

teeters

[Phil_R]

Hi,

Thanks for the info.

I've a great offer of help off the forum, so I should be able to avoid causing irritation to the JayKays of the world in future.

I have to admit I hadn't expected the information to be this forthcoming - it's been extremely helpful.

Regards,

Phil

[Wader2]

Phil, you are going to publish something no matter what we say. We all prefer that what is published is accurate.

[Pierre Argh]

Do they change into civilian clothes and drive home, or drive home then change I though aircrew lived 24/7 in their growbags! (flying overalls)

[teeteringhead]

I though aircrew lived 24/7 in their growbags! ..no need ....

..as long as we've got wings on our jimjams:ok: