Laser Eye Surgery Trial?

[Pongochap]

There was a duty rumour circulating last year that a trial was to be established (in addition to one running in the US) looking at the feasibility of utilising laser eye surgery on line pilots.

Having asked around my circles recently nobody seems to have heard anything about it.

As far as I'm aware current policy on laser eye surgery is still a big 'NO' for aircrew. Although, having seen several civvi friends have the procedure done, they (and I) have been amazed at the results and the simplicity of the op.

There are obvious implications for us, but I would be grateful for any up to date info on the current state of play.


Regards

PC

[A2QFI]

A non-flying colleague of mine has had it done on one eye and is happy with the results. I have done a little internet research and at at least one survey shows that 1 in 5 of people who have had the procedure are not happy with the results - not marvellous if you rely on your eyesight for a living! I also found a site concerning bad outcomes and, obviously, it is a bit one track but is probably worth looking at to see how badly things can go wrong!
http://www.lasikdisaster.com/

[thelynxeffect]

There was a duty rumour circulating last year that a trial was to be established (in addition to one running in the US) looking at the feasibility of utilising laser eye surgery on line pilots.

Having asked around my circles recently nobody seems to have heard anything about it.

As far as I'm aware current policy on laser eye surgery is still a big 'NO' for aircrew. Although, having seen several civvi friends have the procedure done, they (and I) have been amazed at the results and the simplicity of the op.

There are obvious implications for us, but I would be grateful for any up to date info on the current state of play.


Regards

PC


Speak to the US Lt/Col fella down at M/W, I did not so long ago and it was him who brought up the possabillity of being 'zapped' . You are grounded for a year though, hence i ruled that option out.

[Number2]

I have 3 friends who had the lasik procedure done whilst in the Service. The results were outstanding. One of them from -6 to 20/20 vision. They were back to work within 3 days. 2 of them without telling the docs.
They all wish they'd all had it done much sooner.

[TMJ]

I have 3 friends who had the lasik procedure done whilst in the Service. The results were outstanding. One of them from -6 to 20/20 vision. They were back to work within 3 days. 2 of them without telling the docs.
They all wish they'd all had it done much sooner.

Are they aircrew? Having done a laser safety cse recently, which touched on eye surgery as an application, I am still not keen on the idea as a ground-bound engineer; if I knew my working life exposed me to lots of pressure changes I' be even less keen.

[Mystic Greg]

Suggest you give the Dept of Optometry at Cranwell a call. They are extremely helpful and will be able to advise you on the latest policy. Let me know if you need contact details.

[Number2]

I had Lasik done and was diving a month later to 50m and beyond! How about that for pressure changes?!

[Yeller_Gait]

My daughter was looking at joining the RAF and I suggested that she look at laser eye surgery to correct her vision, so that she could apply for pilot.

Is it still the case that the RAF do not allow eye surgery patients to join as pilot?, She has not had any surgery yet, but imho she would be better off doing that and applying for pilot, rather than accepting second best?.


Y_G

[Number2]

'rather than accepting second best?'

A little harsh, old boy!

I had a CAA Cat 1 medical post Lasik and nothing was discovered. If your daughter has the operation and it's discovered, I don't believe she would pass the medical - as it stands at the moment that is.

If the results of the op are unsuccessful (and some are) she won't be accepted. I assume she's short-sighted enough to fail the aircrew medical at the moment so, again, she wouldn't be accepted. Seems to me, if she doesn't want to be 'second best', she'd better have the surgery and keep something crossed at the medical!

[brit bus driver]

Laser eye surgery (but not LASIK) has been approved for aircrew, including pilots.

There are only a handful (I think it's two) of places approved by MOD to have it done; and no, they're not the cheapest as you have to pay yourself!

If interested, get a referral by your SMO; however, chances are he/she will know nothing about the change in policy, so give the ever-so-helpful lovely ladies at Cranwell a bell. If you're on the aircrew contact lens scheme, you'll already have this, and also be vain enough to be considering it!

All consultations are free; no obligation up to the point where you commit.
Not sure of the grounding implications. Suspect 6 months, with approval from your "line manager" :yuk: - what a military phrase!

Beware: the eye examination at CWL is very thorough, even for the 6-monthly contact lens check-up. They map your eye, which will indicate whether or not you have had surgery. Best check on current policy, but I believe it's still a no-no to have had it done before joining (though I know a man who did!)

I know many people who have had the op, including my wife (yes, she was blind when we met etc etc:8 ) who have nothing but high praise for it.

Ultimately, you pays your money.....about 3 grand!....

[Washington_Irving]

I read a couple of months ago that the US Naval Academy has been, for the last couple of years, offering laser eye surgery (PRK not LASIK) to its cadets free of charge. IIRC, 1 in 3 Midshipmen has taken them up on the offer.

The result? A huge overabundance of Middies wanting to go for the aviation branch. The other branches, especially the submariners, are really p:mad: d off. Medical factors notwithstanding, the decision of who goes where is determined largely by class ranking. (In the Middies' final year, they wheel out a big list of the number of slots in each branch- the No.1 ranked gets first pick etc.)

Before, the subs could rely on a fairly healthy supply of new, top quality Ensigns who didn't meet the requisite eyesight standards. No longer. Strangely enough, screaming along in a Super Hornet seems more appealing to most cadets than spending months at a time cooped up in a giant sperm bank 1000ft underwater. Can't imagine why...

[Pongochap]

Guys, many thanks for the advice.....

I must admit I'd didn't know there was a contact lens scheme either!

My logbook was just signed up as 'A2 FE - to fly with spectacles or contact lenses.' As such I've alwas just bought my own. Can you get HM to pay for them?

My problem will be I'm in a flying job for 2-4 years and being grounded for anything like 6 months is unlikely to be an option. I'll certainly give Cranwell a call though.

What's the difference between PPK and LASIK? Having had flick through a few sites most centres in the the UK seem to offer the LASIK procedure only.

[Smudger552]

Whilst I was serving in a NATO post in the US (over the last 3 years) I was offered free laser eye surgery at the local US Naval Hospital. Regrettably I didn't have long enough left in country to get it done along with the aftercare follow ups!! I wish I had asked at the start of my tour!! The US services are simply making the procedure available to all, prioritised by role. I was doing a Loggie job in an office (lowest priority...no kidding!) but was still told it would be done. Bummer.

Smudge

[Number2]

I thought PRK was when the laser actually works on the outside of the cornea. I've known people have problems with refraction at night and the success is dependent on how the eye heals.

The lasik is the flap-cutting version and the laser used on the interior of the eye. Very peculiar to go 'blind' when the flap is cut. Thank goodness for the valium they gave me pre-op!!!

[neilmac]

All the gen seems to be about aircrew, I started my ATC career in and out of darkened radar rooms, which isnt good for the eyes ! light dark light, it was a mare trying to focus at times, therefore I need glasses after a while. Lol wheres my lawyer!! Though laser sugery might be an answer, if they object well soz my eyesight was perfect on joining!
NM

[Lemmingboy]

[QUOTE=Pongochap]
My logbook was just signed up as 'A2 FE - to fly with spectacles or contact lenses.' As such I've alwas just bought my own. Can you get HM to pay for them?


I am in a similar position to pongochap in that I pay for my own contacts and fly with them. The MO on base knew nothing about a forces contact lens scheme when I asked him... I would be grateful of any information anyone has.
Many Thanks!
LB

[dolphin 153]

again give the lovely ladies at cranditz a call, i get mine through them. 3 month supply at cost price, just call when you need more (so far my 3 month supply is in its 8th month, more of a golfing thing really):) http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
:)

[O2thief]

I assume she's short-sighted enough to fail the aircrew medical at the moment so, again, she wouldn't be accepted. Seems to me, if she doesn't want to be 'second best', she'd better have the surgery and keep something crossed at the medical.
My Optician told me, on good authority, that laser treatment only works for people with longsight problems. It's all to do with the thickness of the lens in the eye. Thick lens means they can shave some off-thin well you get the picture!Therefore shortsightedness equals contacts or bins.:(

[ZH-127]

KNow for a fact that UK aircrew are NOT allowed lazer treatment.

It happened to me, my eyes were below the RAF limits, my old man offered to get treatment for me, i put it to the SMO and AFCO and they said that its a big BIG no.. on the basis that aircrew are a long term "investment" for the forces, and the first eye op was only done faily recently - 10 years or so..

Thus they still dont know if there are any long term negative side effects of the treatment - which rules you out.

Im sure in due course the rules will change, but for the time being, if you get zapped, rule out a flying career with the RAF.. same ruling applies for Air Traffic Controller too.

ZH

[Twopack]

KNow for a fact that UK aircrew are NOT allowed lazer treatment.

Yes they are.

Spoke to the ladies at the optometry dept at Cranditz only last month; think the RAF will even subsidize it but it's not for me - there is a 12 month no flying rule after the op, no exceptions.

Again, I recommend anyone interested talks to them.

[Brain Potter]

I remember this being discussed at RAFCAM last time I was there for a refresher. I think the one the procedures leaves a cut in the eye that could be torn open by the wind blast during ejection. Or was I daydreaming....

[ZH-127]

Yes they are.

Spoke to the ladies at the optometry dept at Cranditz only last month; think the RAF will even subsidize it but it's not for me - there is a 12 month no flying rule after the op, no exceptions.

Again, I recommend anyone interested talks to them.


My info is 1 month old and comes direct from both the SMO at RAF Linton on Ouse AND both AFCO's in Leeds and York.

Perhaps the rules are different for those already in the services, but for new entrants.. its a very strict no-no. You will not be accepted if you have had lazer eye treatment.

[tablet_eraser]

As it happens, I asked this very question just last month to my med centre.

The cpl who looked into it was told that the current policy for ground branches (including flt safety critical branches) is that the RAF will downgrade your MES, and you will be provisionally banned from OOA ops for a year. After 6 months you will be examined by an RAF optometrist or approved civilian optometrist to see whether the scar has healed properly and to check the overall consequences for your eyesight. That optometrist can then upgrade your MES and clear you for deployments, or keep you downgraded for the remaining 6 months. When you are eventually upgraded your medical records will keep the downgraded MES in brackets so that if there are future problems your MO will know that you've had the procedure.

After the year, therefore, you should be back at your normal med cat and able to do your full range of duties.

[Twopack]

... You will not be accepted if you have had lazer eye treatment.

Nobody was arguing against that and it was not the original question.

I was merely saying that your statement, ''Know for a fact that UK aircrew are NOT allowed lazer (sic) treatment.'' is factually incorrect.

Current RAF aircrew ARE allowed laser eye surgery, they just can't fly for 12 months after the operation.

[ZH-127]

^ There you go then. We were talking two different contexts.

Existing aircrew, and people applying to be aircrew.

[nelepope]

From the "lovely ladies" at Cranwell.............:)
Aircrew are allowed to have laser eye surgery under certain conditions.
Please phone us for a chat if you're interested. You can find us on the Cranwell Intranet Homepage - search for "Optometry".
However, laser surgery is still a bar to entry for candidates applying for aircrew branches because of the wide variation of standard of treatment.
And just a reminder........
If you want to fly wearing contact lenses, you should be coming to see us - that's what the rule book says!:=

[Vatican69]

Anyone know if the rules for the RN are the same regarding new entrants?

I'm alright Jack, but a friend is considering applying.

[nelepope]

The rule are the same for all three services