North Sea equal time question

[Airflowreversal_1]

I was wondering how it was solved with salary if one would do an equal time roster on the North Sea, especially in the UK?

Since you would work a lot days less then collagues that work a standard roster, do you get a paycut? If yes, how much and do you still have any hollidays left?

[Blind]

Pay remains the same. Aberdeen pilots can still easily achieve 800 flying hours per year despite only working 182 days. Pilots at CHC's other UK bases do not (yet?) have this equal time roster due to the different daily flying they do.

[pitchlink]

Please elaborate on what you count as different?:confused:

[Blind]

long sectors in a straight line with 6 or 7 hours a day or short sectors and short flights.

[chc&proud]

In the GOM our US colleagues have been working equal time rosters for decades. As far as I know this is the norm for the major operators over there regardless of the number of flight hours produced.

While working for PHI in 1987-88 I worked 7-7. After 1 year employment I had accumulated 1 week vacation time, as well as 1 week time off in case of illness.

The working year calculation was as follows:
7/7 roster = 182,5 working days @ year
Minus 7 vacation days
Total number of working days annually: 175,5 days

I do remember some pilots working a Monday - Friday system, but I do not recall the details.

Weekly, monthly and annual flight time accumulated widely, but this did not lead to less days off for the guys with lower hourly production. Legs were short and long, including shuttle. Daily number of landings varied for myself from 10 - 80, but some pilots accumulated closer to 200 landings due to extensive offshore shuttle activity for eager customers.

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In Helikopter Service in Norway we have flown equal time rosters since the late -70's. The systems are the following:

1. 7/7 and voluntary 14/14.
* 5 vacation days deducted each summer.
* Total number of work days annually: 177.

2. Monday - Friday roster (5/2/5/9).
* 10 vacation days deducted every Summer.
* Total number of work days annually: Between 165-173.

3. The rosters offshore:
* Full time 15/20 minus 5 vacation days = 151 work days annually
* Combined duty onshore 50%, offshore 50%
* 16/19 or 8/6/8/13 minus 5 vacation days = 161 work days.

Crew change pilots fly 6-800 flight hours annually. The systems in place easily allows the company to fly a pilot 800 hrs. in less than 365 days, leading to days and sometimes weeks off duty to "cool down" the 30 day limit of 95 flight hours or the 365 day limit of 800 flight hours.

Pilots involved in SAR and shuttle accumulate anywhere from 150- 600 flight hours as far as I've seen.

The number of flight hours is not considered relevant in HS when it comes to the maximum number of working days. Some contracts require lots of flight time. Some contracts require extensive periods of stand by duty. Either way it all adds up.

Our competitor Norsk Helikopter operate according to the same principles as HS.

Onshore, one HEMS operators have established rosters of 1 week on 24h duty, followed by 2 weeks off. Vacation time of 3 weeks deducted during the Summer. The other HEMS operator work the pilots 1 week 24h on duty, followed by 3 weeks off.

[pitchlink]

Blind,
What you meant was; Short sectors, long shuttles, 5-6+ hour days and regularly flying up to hours limits including the 365 day 800!
You may think it is a sleepy hollow working in the South, but if you take a closer look you may see that we also have a strong case for working 182!

[Blind]

pitchlink, I never said anything derogatory about the Southern bases. I actually said they don't have a 7/7 roster YET. The "yet" bit implied that they were trying to sort one out, it just wasn't happenening as quickly as it did in Aberdeen.

I know you do 800 hours a year but would you be able to do 800 in 182 days and still keep the customer happy?

I also didn't say long sectors were better that short sectors. I just said they were different:ugh:

Depending on your base you are doing about 200 days a year. At 5 hours a day that is 1000 hours or 6 hours a day is 1200 hours. If you do indeed fly 6 hours a day on the majority of your days on then a few of you should make a strong proposal to the company and sell it hard. If the numbers work you'll get it.

[chc&proud]

Communication more often than not can be complicated. I'm happy every time misunderstandings gets cleared up.

Re 800 flight hours annually:
5 flight hours @ day x 160 days = 800 flight hours. Efficient and professional utilization of flight crew makes it no major challenge to meet production expectations. Btw, 800 hours annually is probably too high of a limit, in light of the types of operation we are involved in. Some negative factors are:
* Noise levels
* Vibration levels
* Dress code most of the year
* Shift schedules, working days, nights, weekends, public holidays.
* Weather
* Ergonomics of the work place
* Etc. etc.

In CHC HS, the flight crew working the Monday-Friday roster (MF-roster) easily reaches the limit of 95 flight hours per 30 days and the 800 flight hours per 365 days. On numerous occasions pilots have been forced to take days and weeks off from flying to reduce the accumulated number of hours. It has been demonstrated that the MF-roster easily accumulates 800 hours in 150-160 days in our crew change operations, even if this is not a goal for the pilots themselves.

Competition or cooperation? Pilots are involved in various types of operations which involves different types of work load, such as:
* Crew changes with flight duration of 3:00 or more.
* Crew changes with flight duration of less than 3:00.
* Offshore shuttle operations with high number of sectors.
* Offshore shuttle operations with a lower number of sectors.
* Offshore SAR operations combined with shuttle operation.
* Dedicated SAR operations offshore or onshore with low flight time production.
* Stand by duty onshore with low flight time production.
* Etc.

It is sometimes tempting to claim that "my job" is harder/tougher/more difficult than "your job", or vice versa. This typically leads nowhere, creates irritation, anger and animosity among pilot groups.

I assume:
When all is said and done, we all would like sufficient time with our families and friends. We would also like to see a high degree of predictablility throughout the year, enabling us to plan for a social life.

For far too long the pilots in the UK sector have been in the unfortunate situation of having what seems to be inferior planning tools in place, leading to the chaos theory being the guiding light for the operational execution of the daily flight program.

Historically it seems that more than one colleague in the UK sector have felt this to be less than satisfactory.

This is easy to understand, as the pilots of Bristow, Scotia, Bond compared to the pilots in the GOM, Norway, Denmark, Holland and numerous other location have had to endure a higher number of annual work days with less (read: no) predictability when it comes to planning days off duty in general.

[Brilliant Stuff]

It would have been nice if CHC would have stretched to some nice helmets or even only some proper headsets rather than those cheap bottom of the range peltors, which would have helped enormously with the noise.

[diginagain]

Whilst risking slight thread-drift here, I have two questions regarding the post from Brilliant Stuff;

First, does the helicopter operator insist on crews using cheap headsets? (Yes, I've used the sets mentioned, and they are poor compared to other products on the market).

Secondly, why is it that crews don't wear helmets?

As a frequent pax to exotic offshore platforms, and someone whose previous employment meant getting the protection provided by a helmet, I, and I don't doubt many of my fellow pax, would be happier knowing that the guys and girls up front were better protected, not only from the albeit slight risk of avian incursion, but the noise levels.

Thank you.

[mrwellington]

It would have been nice if CHC would have stretched to some nice helmets or even only some proper headsets rather than those cheap bottom of the range peltors, which would have helped enormously with the noise.

This should explain why :}

http://www.chcaustralia.com/sarquip.html

Or then again...mayby not at all !!

[chc&proud]

In light of the theme of the thread it seems wise to establish a new thread relating to Health, Safety and work Environment - HSE. This would make it easy to navigate Rotorheads while looking for topics.

In CHC Helikopter Service AS in Norway we have established a HSE organisation for pilots, based on national work environment legislation. The pilot union appoint or elect representatives. The company is obliged to facilitate and finance this HSE system.

The HSE representative have been looking for ways of improving the work environment for pilots for numerous years. One of several important challenges is noise in the cockpit.

Up through the years we have tested various types of Electronic Noise Reduction (ENR) head sets in all price ranges, including, Peltor, David Clark, Bose etc.

None of the head sets seem to give a substantial benefit over a well maintained Peltor headset, when you at the same time use special ear plugs molded to fit each ear. Noise dampening effect of these plugs are tested to be 15db or 25db.

In addition we are looking into electronic ear plugs being tested out by research laboratories in Norway. No results so far, I believe.

Some pilots would like to use helmets, but it seems this might not be the right solution for lots of pilots, due to weight, even if they are light weight.
It's sad that the manufacturers of helicopters do not seem to care about the work environment of pilots. The L2 is more noisy in the cockpit than any of our L, L1's. The AS365N2 is even noisier I seem to recollect from data gathered. The S61 is the better one of the types, but this has been phased out from our fleet.

The S92 is perceived by the pilots to be noisy, for several reasons. It is not necessarily perceived by all pilots to be an improvement over older types.

On a good note: In Norway it seems that a spirit of cooperation has been established between all parties when it comes to looking for ways to improve safety and comfort for all on board, as well as improving the work environment for the pilots. The parties are: The customers, the CAA, the labour organisations, the Norwegian Airline Pilots Association and the local pilot unions. This bodes well for the future.

This will be my one and only posting on HSE issues on this thread, for the reasons listed at the beginning.

[pitchlink]

My appologies Blind!! I misread the sentiment of your original post, you are obviously better informed than 90% of your collegues about what is going on South of the border! My feeling is that most of them are more inclined to pull the ladder up with an "I'm alright Jack" attitude rather than encourage and advise collegues on how they got their roster.:D

[Blind]

No Worries pitchlink.

The roster wasn't easy to get and it was down to a few individuals (not necessarily BALPA) who worked hard to prove it would work. I suggest you try and do the same, there's no reason why you can't have it if it doesn't cause a commercial hinderance.

Out of interest, in addition to the 5/2/5/9/5/2/6/8 or 7/7 roster the company can't decide if there are too many or too few on 7/7 and are allegedly looking at a few other options and 4/3/3/4 has been mentioned which would thrill some guys. That is a completely unfounded rumour though that I heard from a captain who is sometimes right and sometimes full of hot air!! Belive it at your own choice:suspect:

Me.

[chc&proud]

Blind must have received erroneus information regarding the role of BALPA in the matter of cyclical rosters for the Scotia pilots in egpd.

BALPA and representatives from the Scotia CC cooperated with representatives for company management and CHC Europe to solve the puzzle of the cyclical roster.

The work took more than one year if I recall correctly. BALPA demonstrated a high degree of motivation and supported the work actively.

The rosters are a watered down version of the systems utilized by CHC Helikopter Service AS of Norway. In HS the rosters are legally binding, as part of the collective labor agreement between the company and the pilot union/NALPA.

The Scotia pilots in egpd is now, for the time being, enjoying reduced number of working days, from a theoretical limit of approx. 220 days the numbers is now down to 182.

Keep in mind that the system does not include summer vacation, which the HS CLA does. The number of working days in HS is 165/173 for the MF system and 177 flying days when working the 7/7 system.

The working group from management, BALPA and the Scotia CC focused on the pro's and con's of the systems in Norway when reviewing and evaluating the alternatives.

Consequently, I believe the pilots of Scotia should tip their hats to their pilot representatives and the professional advice provided by BALPA throughout the process. Also, we were happy in Norway to note that the parties were able to cooperate constructively to make the positive change materialize.

[Blind]

Blind must have received erroneus information regarding the role of BALPA in the matter of cyclical rosters for the Scotia pilots in egpd.
.

No, I do not have erroneous info. One of the Captains on the L put in a HUGE amount work and was not then a full CC member. He did the sums for the roster and was strongly supported by BALPA in negotiotions. However, the bulk of the work was carried out by one individual and more people should thank him.

I very rarely bother to post on this site purely because people are so defensive it becomes negative and people misinterpret postings with their own prejudices instead of reading posts properly.

[chc&proud]

Hi Blind
It's never my intention to go on the defensive. I'm sorry my post gave you reason to feel that way.

I am happy to read that one of your colleagues, being a member of BALPA, stepped up to the plate when assistance was needed. More often than not it is hard to recruit members to do work for the pilot union, based on family commitments, commuting arrangements, lack of interest etc.

In HSF (Helikopter Service Pilots Association) we sometimes draw on resources amongst pilot union members of HSF who are not on the union board. This is in accordance with our bylaws, and is done when a particular person is considered to be a resource in a particular matter.

When doing this, it does not mean that the pilot union representatives nor
NALPA takes a secondary role. It just means we all stick together the best way we know how, finding solutions to unresolved challenges. Preferrably this is done in a spirit of cooperation with management.

The fact still remains: The matter of the cyclical roster was resolved based on a joint effort by representatives from the following entities:
* Company management
* CHC Europe management
* CHC Scotia Company Council, drawing on the resources of members
* BALPA

In addition, BALPA and your CC sought information from HSF regarding the systems we have in HS, based on the cooperation and communication established through CHC-PA. HSF informally discussed the matter with various people involved in the work over a period of more than a year.

Conclusion: The matter was resolved in a joint effort from both sides of the table, with inputs from several sources.