The Modular Course [Archive]

Parson

23rd Jan 2006, 10:49

Try Aeros in Gloucester or Bristol Flying Centre . Both good, dedicated modular schools. You will, I imagaine, get lots of replies giving good/bad comments on several schools. Your best bet is to make a shortlist, visit them all and come to your own conclusion. There are also numerous threads on this topic here.

Having been through the system the only advice I would give would be wary of very small schools whose financial stability could change quickly, or very large schools who also offer integrated courses.

Send Clowns

23rd Jan 2006, 11:42

This page of the CAA website (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applicationid=11&mode=detail&id=1211) contains a link to a pdf file with a list of all FTOs approved by the CAA. They are listed under different categories.

As I said, many of them advertise here so you can very quickly link to their websites. Just click on any advert that comes up for a school - good for PPRuNe too as it keeps their stats up for advertising revenue!

Don't worry about your English here. Work on it before your groundschool though - my old employer can put you in touch with a company near here that can help you. The groundschool itself will finally sort out any language problems! If it isn't good enough you won't pass all the exams and you'll have to resit until it is.

pilotpaul

24th Jan 2006, 15:29

The Flight Centre at Wolverhampton Airport offers excellent commercial training. They have just got a new DA42 Twinstar and are taking delivery of a Arrow IV in the coming days, along with reconed PA28's in the spring.

Believe you can get them on 01384 221456 and website is www.hgfc.co.uk

G-ANDY

24th Jan 2006, 17:39

I'm currently doing my commercial training with Aeros at Gloucestershire Airport and am very happy with them. Maximum of two students per instructor which means you get to fly everyday and to backseat your buddy's trip too which is very beneficial.

The only snag is the English weather!!

KrazyKraut

24th Jan 2006, 17:42

Jekz - look - there is no "best" school for modular training in the UK.

Different people have different requirements! What is the "best car"? The "best laptop"? IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU NEED! Different schools offer different advantages.

Problem with the wannabes forum on PPruNe is, most people here, who consider themselves experts, have only seen a few schools first-hand and reckon where they did the training must be the best school, and you read crap like the training there was "second to none" and soforth. It's rubbish, because they have no way of actually comparing all the different schools in-depth and first-hand. Even if you've done modular training at three different schools, you can't make those statements with authority.

As a previous post said, get the list of approved FTOs from the CAA web site, then have a look at the individual schools and ring up the ones that appeal to you for more information. THEN, when you have a shortlist, you can consider asking about those on this forum.

Good luck,

KK

Trent 900

24th Jan 2006, 17:48

I would highly recommend Aeros at Gloucester Airport!!

I completed my CPL/IR a couple of years ago, good professional setup, good approachable instructors and the a/c are very well equipped.

Check these guys out before you commit any money to your training.

Lord Flasheart

25th Jan 2006, 11:09

I believe Aeros to be a very good school for modular training but as has been pointed out the good old English weather is a draw back.

If you're looking to do the UK CPL/IR it might be worth looking into FTE's modular course. Good value for money, good training and V good weather.

A320rider

26th Jan 2006, 15:29

do not go in a school asking for maximum perfection.

perfection= more money= stress = check rides failure.

JB007

26th Jan 2006, 18:44

Also take a very serious look at PAT at Bournemouth..superb.
www.pat.uk.com

biaeghh

27th Jan 2006, 07:36

I remember seen a very positive thread about PAT in Bournemouth, for some unknown reason it seems to have disappeared, but as JB007 PAT are worth a serious look especially as in the Bournemouth area there are only two worth while schools going to (BCFT/PAT), EPTA as someone pointed out recentley would have problems organising a good drinking session in a brewery!!!

Tiger_ Moth

26th Mar 2006, 13:36

Hi, I am looking into the integrated vs modular debate and it strikes me that it would be a lot easier to secure a bank loan when doing an integrated course than when doing a modular one.

So my question is, how do most people choosing the modular route finance it? I know some will already have jobs and savings, but as a soon-to-graduate student I do not.

Is it possible to get loans for the modular route and if so would they cover most or all of it?

If they don't I suppose my best option would be an integrated course with a loan, or perhaps something like the CTC bond scheme.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

portsharbourflyer

26th Mar 2006, 15:01

Well I think you answered the question yourself, you'll have to get a job and work for a few years to fund some of the training. Once you have had a few years in industry you'll build up the credit rating to obtain the loans for completion of training.
Remember you can do a ppl at weekends, then ATPL theory by distance learning while still remaining in employment.
You imply that you are a graduate, therefore if you have done a decent degree you should be able to get a job that in three years could raise the money to do a PPL and the ATPL theory.
Then you should only need to give up work and take a loan out for the CPL, ME IR (which can be completed in three to four months). With a good credit rating you should be able to get a personal loan with a three month deferment on the payments. Consequently, if you have a few years experience in industry it will give you a job to go back to after the training to pay back the loans/ raise the money for an instructors rating.
In a nutshell that is how I funded the training.

With correct planning you could in three years have a frozen ATPL and only about 20000, pounds of debt via the modular route.

Getting a large loan doing an integrated course; if you are one of the lucky ones you may get a job at low hours, otherwise you will have a 65000 debt, no work experience; you will be trying to pay back a 65000 loan on minimum wage. Normally banks backing integrated courses may offer the loan with a 7-10 year pay back period, calculate the interest charge in this time and you will see that it is significantly more than the 65000 you initially needed to borrow.

sam34

25th May 2006, 16:12

hello everybody!

Do you think that is possible getting Job (bar, pub...) during the course ?

How many hours by week there are for the training ?

many thanks!

sam :)

tailwheel76

26th May 2006, 09:19

I worked half days then studied/flew the other half when I was doing my exams and CPL (modular). Didn't find it a problem, just make sure work doesn't get in the way of training.

PPL152

6th Aug 2006, 15:37

Hi,

I have a JAA PPL and would like to get the JAA ATPL with CPL/IR.

How am I to go for it via the modular route? what comes first, second etc?

Thanks,
PPL152

asuweb

6th Aug 2006, 15:59

Try the search function!

OR, the READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION thread located right at the top.

geraldn

6th Aug 2006, 16:29

You should first do your 14 ATPL theory subjects either fulltime or distance learning.Once having passed them and having 150 hours,of which a 100 as PIC and having completed your x-country qualifying flight,your next step would be to get your CPL preferably with a multi engine rating.
You will then have to do your instrument rating and an MCC course .
Regards

PPL152

9th Aug 2006, 09:13

Anyone can thus, suggest a renowned school for modular courses?

unfazed

9th Aug 2006, 09:26

CABAIR Modular through OFT at Orlando Florida or Sebastian Florida looks like a good starting point

geraldn

9th Aug 2006, 09:59

I have done all my anti PPL training at Oxford and have no problem in recommending them.Like any school its got its -ve's & +ve's.However if i had to do it all over again(if i was a Masochist:\ ) i would go there again.

BlueRobin

9th Aug 2006, 12:05

Just so we don't incur the wrath of the moderator (ello scroggs), take a look at the following handy reference guide he spent some time producing

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649

I see you are in Malta? The first thing you should so is get a JAR CLass 1 medical and pass it. Then the ATPL theory comes next. What to do , i.e. full-time vs distance learning, depends on your circumstances. Will go overseas and study full-time, or stay at home and distance-learn?

wbryce

9th Aug 2006, 12:50

something i made for my website, load it and zoom in: http://www.wbryce.co.uk/ATPL.jpg - This should give the general idea....note that FI rating isn't needed but there to show the route im taking! :-)

BlueRobin

9th Aug 2006, 13:15

Nice one brycey :ok:

paulriggers

11th Oct 2006, 13:10

When going modular is it better to complete all training with one provider a la Waypoint and Pathfinder or are there any downsides to picking and choosing along the way?

I would quite like to do the Bristol GS but obviously that wouldn't fit in with the structured programmes where theory is included and I think they [OAT/CCAT] expect payment per module up front which is quite a sum and I believe I'll be able to complete my training quicker by paying as I go.

Any views appreciated.

Captain Spam Can

11th Oct 2006, 13:55

Numerous Captains have said it doesn’t matter where you do it at the end of the day it’s all the same licence. My advice to you would be to go and visit the training providers and go with the ones which you feel most comfortable with and whom you feel give the best instruction. It’s no good going to a school where you don’t feel that you fit it and there are cold atmospheres amongst the instructors which will make you want to go home and not give 100% which will affect your results. Likewise going to a school which is too laid back with no structure might frustrate you. Go with a school which you feel happy with in the learning environment and you’ll enjoy the experience more. Put all marketing and glossy brochures to one side and disregard them, talk to people who have been there. Look at Airways Flight Training in Exeter; virtually no marketing but the comments and pass rates from ex students is high which in turn gives them an excellent reputation. I went down there myself for a look and found the instructors to be all ex RAF and Airline Captains and a very warm reception was given (not connected just that it’s only one of 3 schools I’ve looked around). If you look around different schools you’ll know what’s right for you, don’t go about schools looking to see if they get you jobs as 99.9% of FATL’ers get the jobs themselves networking etc, look for instruction quality and facilities. My guess would be that a after the CPL you will probably continue the I/R with the same provider but at least you have the option of going elsewhere but belive me, Captains (including a Flight Ops Director) and F/O's all tell me it dosnt matter as long as you get the licence.

Lucifer

11th Oct 2006, 15:01

I suggest you read the pilot shortage thread on the "interviews, jobs and sponsorship" thread. Under no circumstances should you aspire to having a training record that is fragmented over many training providers, as it is key to gaining employement that you have one, easily-determined training record with a provider with a strong reputation on producing a quality end product.

My advice is to do training with one provider, and ensure that you go through the training at a speed that demonstrates that you can learn under pressure.

Gazeem

11th Oct 2006, 15:10

Piffle,
Lucifer are you fishing?
Do your training where it suits you and do not believe the spin, Bristol GS are very good, I know that first hand. My classmates now fly for BA, Easy and many others.
Gaz

no sponsor

11th Oct 2006, 15:13

At the BALPA conference recently, I spoke to Ian Cheese, who I think is the aircrew manager for Flybe, and he stated that he looked for no more than 2 different training providers in his presentation, although I had three (one for my PPL, another for the ATPL groundstudies and one for the CPL/IR/MEP) he was OK with that too - he himself went to the mighty BGS for his ATPL groundstudies.

AlexL

11th Oct 2006, 16:08

I already had a ppl and did hours on my own. Then one provider for ATPL distance learning, and a single provider for CPL / IR / ME. I would suggest that you look at least at a single provider for the post hour building flight training (I.e CPL / IR and MEP), if for no other reason than its alot less hassle and you get a continuity of training. It is also alot easier to plan and is likely to be completed alot quicker.

Lucifer

11th Oct 2006, 17:05

No Gaz - your experience is however one of experienced ex-AAC crew, which is hardly the same as ab-initio.

BGS for example, and then flying at one school only for everything above PPL - fine, but don't start using multiple flying training providers for every element of CPL, IR, ME etc.

Gazeem

11th Oct 2006, 19:45

Lucifer,
you're going to have to demote some of your imps a few levels for duff gen,
I was not or ever have been AAC, or experienced military aircrew for that matter, I was effectively an ab-initio fATPL when I got got employed.
Don't get me wrong I am not necessarily advocating modular over integrated, horses for courses but a lot of mis-information is out there.
Gaz

Lucifer

12th Oct 2006, 00:43

Apologies, I browsed your past posts, and that was what it implied. I obviously mis-read something.

rocketboots

12th Oct 2006, 20:24

so are we saying that ATPL distance learning at say BGS, CPL done overseas at fully approved CAA/JAR provider because weather allows it to be completed in 4 weeks, and then IR and MEP at another school equals no chance of a job?.:bored:

Lucifer

12th Oct 2006, 20:42

It means it makes it extremely hard.

Read this: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=244158

Megaton

13th Oct 2006, 05:07

PPL at Humberside, exams with Bristol, CPL with EFT, IR with Atlantic, MCC with Oxford, first job at FlyBE, now with BA. Need any more?

High Wing Drifter

13th Oct 2006, 07:16

Paul,
I would quite like to do the Bristol GS but obviously that wouldn't fit in with the structured programmes where theory is included.
The CTC structured modular scheme, use (or used to use) Bristol GS for the theory phase.

rocketboots

13th Oct 2006, 07:49

Thanks Ham Phisted
You have restored my faith.Was it mentioned at interview level,and was this your first job offer

GoldenMonkey

13th Oct 2006, 07:57

Hmmmm

I'm not convinced by this... "only one provider" concept. I used in total 6 training providers prior to employment. And just casting my thoughts to anecdotal evidence of my collegues, many came from a "multiple provider" background.
Each person's predicament is different. When choosing a training provider, there will be factors already discussed such as reputation, results, facilities, instructor and aircraft availabilty, atmosphere, etc. There will be further personal factors such as home location, finance, learning styles, family commitments, work commitments that will, and I believe should, all contribute to the decision making of where you train.
So long as you can come to a rational and well thought out explanation for your choices then I don't really see the problem in chopping and changing. After all, that is one of the benefits of the modular route.

Gazeem

13th Oct 2006, 08:37

The problem with this whole dicussion is threefold:

First, Pprune is an anonymous forum. People here are not always who they claim to be. I attended a Pprune pilot training seminar back in 2001 odd, I met lots of the Pprune characters. Some of the people who had been talking with authority on the website over the previous few months to that seminar tuurned out to be 14 year old schoolboys and people who hadn't even achieved a PPL yet.
So always take what you read with a pinch of salt.

Secondly, there are no accurate figures on how many modular, modular one school, or integrated students get jobs. I don't believe the CAA hold these figures. Bear in mind the larger schools process more students. Therefore, if every school had a 50% employment record the larger schools seem to place more people, although the chance of getting employment though any school would be exactly the same.
Anecodotal employment stories are more likely from the larger schools where courses of 12 or more are together for other a year and mix with many other courses. There is a ready built large network to spread any good news about.
Modular students often spend three to five weeks at a smaller school where there may be only a couple of people on their course.

Therefore if it seems that integrated schools place more people, they probably do; but not necessarily as a proportion; as there are more to be placed and more to spread the good news.

Thirdly, anyone involved in either moduar, modular one school or integrated training will always try to defend and talk up their own preferred route. They are spending a lot of money in the process and don't want to beleive anything other than their route gives them the very best chance.

My story, PPL at school near Witney and school in LA, BGS, CPL at EFT, IR at Aeros, MCC at OATS. On my original airline course which was at the very start of the current recruitment boom when there were hundreds of low hour pilots out there had 3 x Integrated, 3 x Modular (form different schools) and 2 x ex-RAF.
If I had the time and money to train Integrated I probably would have done so some where sunny:cool: , or perhaps I would have gone modular with a cash reserve for a TR in needed!

I want people to thoroughly research their routes to fATPL and choose what is right for them and to see through the hype.

Megaton

13th Oct 2006, 09:22

I have it on good authority that Gazeem is actually a 12 year old girl who's still in short dresses :p :p :p

ps was never asked much about training background in the 3 interviews to which I was invited.

Gazeem

13th Oct 2006, 10:05

Dungarees actually!:)

HP you must be thinking of your other website!

Megaton

13th Oct 2006, 10:31

Dungarees? It'll be comfortable shoes next :) My other website? You need to be over 18 and possess a credit card to get into that one!

Lucifer

13th Oct 2006, 14:24

And to think I was about to set up a meeting with you on match.com, Gaz.

I want people to thoroughly research their routes to fATPL and choose what is right for them and to see through the hype.
Good advice. Don't plunge headlong into anything without a plan, both financially and in terms of realistic jobs.

scottiedogg

13th Oct 2006, 21:20

Just to add up another bit from my point of view.

Im currently doing the modular route to a fATPL, and really choose is over the intergrated route purely on the cost sides.

At the moment im doing a 6month full time groundschool course at one of the UKs well known schools.

Im heading back to the school where i did my PPL to do my MER, CPL and IR, and then back to this well known school for my MCC.

Having looked into these big 'guinea pig' airline pilot factories like oxford and cabair i cannot see the pros to do the full modular course with them - i could rant on about these for hours, but i wont, if you would like to know my insider views feel free to PM me though.

I to have had the talks on it doesnt matter, you come out with the same qualification, which is true. Doing training at a couple of schools i dont think is a problem, but for example it would be good if you could keep your own personal record of all your training.

The school im attending at the moment offers one of these full modular courses andhaving started the groundschool i have been put off doing it. I had heard many negatives before going, but now im there seeing and hearing what i do, i see no reason why a full modular course at one school is better than doing a mix and max to suit yourself.

At the end of the day, as people have said before me, look at every option and be careful where you put your money. Choose sensibly and hopefully it will reward you in the future. Just remember you get the same qualification in the end.

Scott

neilia

15th Oct 2006, 20:18

My understanding is the benefit of doing modular with someone like OAT is the potential for recommendation to airlines. Simply having the name of the school on your CV won't make any difference unless they have recommended you.

neilia

15th Oct 2006, 22:00

Yep, that's why I said "potential" for recommendation. You're correct, OAT will only put forward modular students if airlines ask for them (apparantly some airlines have in the past asked *only* for modular). So of course it all depends on whether they have an airline asking them for modular students at the right time for you.

speedrestriction

17th Oct 2006, 10:23

You're correct, OAT will only put forward modular students if airlines ask for them (apparantly some airlines have in the past asked *only* for modular).

It can be slightly more nuanced than that. OAT obviously push their APP product to the airlines as there is a bigger margin in it for them, it is just common sense. However usually the airlines coming to OAT for recommendations will have criteria of their own eg. 85%+ in groundschool, all first series/time passes....etc with no particular preference for APP or modular.

If this happens to occur when the cream of the APP has already been whipped away by BA, GECAT etc. and there isn't a sufficient number of remaining eligible APP candidates, OAT then proceed to put forward modular candidates who do meet the criteria.

That was ye olde systeme before Waypoints was presented as a package. Things might have changed.

sr

Airbus38

16th May 2007, 21:39

Hi CliffordFW,

There's a wealth of old posts on a lot of the stuff in the 'sticky' at the top of the page, but as I'm in a charitable mood...

- Don't know what the hours requirement is off the top of my head, but to be honest whatever it is it's only academic. Pick a number and double it for the hours you spend awake at night imagining a giant wizz-wheel.

- Distance learning courses justify the hours you do by setting a number of tests along the way, which in theory to pass you must have studied for an average of X hours. They will undoubtedly have you in a classroom too, I believe there's a min number of classroom tuition hours but stand to be corrected. BGS's website outlines the course so I won't replicate that.

- CPL first or IR first; do a quick search and you'll see this one has been battled out countless times. Read through and see what you think.

- CPL include the ME rating? Depends on the FTO I suppose. Requirements for the CPL include a complex type - this could be retractable gear/wobbly prop. Download a copy of LASORS 2007 from the CAA website, requirements are in there. You can do a CPL and Multi, with the CPL test done on the multi - this extends the 25hr CPL to 28hrs. It's all in LASORS though.

Regards,
A38

Token Bird

17th May 2007, 14:19

Having worked at a large FTO, I have seen many people do the IR first and the CPL after and they have all struggled with the IR, having not had the benefit of the CPL first. Any cost savings are rapidly wiped out,

TB

cosworth211

17th May 2007, 14:39

I'd recommend doing the CPL first.

Its a logical progression to finish off all the VFR training before switching to IFR training, fellow students who complete the IR first have told me they struggle with the switch back to VFR flight and have to be re-disciplined into getting their head out of the cockpit for the CPL training.

Another issue is partial panel training, depending on which JAR state you decide to train for your IR you may only cover partial panel flying during a full UK 25 hour CPL.