Passenger Seating

[pubsman]

Can anyone tell me whether or not it is mandatory for a passenger to be seated in his allocated seat number (as per the Boarding Card)? If so, what regulation covers this requirement?
Thanks.

[woolyalan]

I dont know for certain, but, i wouldn't have thought that it is mandatory, probably more to stop passengers fighting over seats like on some Budget carriers that dont have allocated seating :eek:

If your swapping seats with a friend I cant see why it would be a breach of some sort of regulation

Wooly

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

I dont know for certain, but, i wouldn't have thought that it is mandatory, probably more to stop passengers fighting over seats like on some Budget carriers that dont have allocated seating :eek:

If your swapping seats with a friend I cant see why it would be a breach of some sort of regulation

Wooly


Would it not help for identification of certain important passengers (be they marshalls/prisoners/celebrities) or help in the identification if passengers following an accident?

[woolyalan]

hmmm, fair point, although after an accident (a big one anyway) passengers dont tend to be sitting in their seats after. :8

But like I say, im not even pretending to be the expert, I just cant see their being rules and regs regarding seat allocation with the exception of emergency exit seats.

Id be quite happy if someone could confirm or correct me :)

[Astral_Flyer]

I can recall one occasion when the doors were closed and I decided to move into an empty seat. I was stopped and told firmly that I couldn't change seats as it would change the balance of the aircraft.

All I did was give her a look and say to her that I had probably had more flight time up front than she had, had in her whole life and that wasn't exactly true. :} I decided not to press it any further, as I didn't want a scene. I was tempted though :E

Makes me wonder what some cabin crew are trained about and the lines they spin. :hmm:

[el !]

There are two main tecniques to change your seat, preferably aiming toward the higly dreamed empty row: the pre-takeoff and the after-takeoff tecnique.

Generally speaking, is not reccommendable to try switching before the doors are closed, as you're inviting the Murphy's law to summon one last late person to sit in the middle of the last unoccupied empty row. But if you know 100% that there is an empty row that you like, just go and sit directly there as you board.

Generally I use the post-takeoff tecnique in presence of Nazi Cabin Crew, how do you recognise such crews is easy, they are the ones that demand to see your boarding pass and not just naming your seat as your board. Those who don't are generally more cooperative and understanding.

In any case you must be careful of not being seen by cabin crew, just as a precaution. If you are caught, smile, say something amicable and come up with an excuse like a swollen ankle or something.

Do not worry at all about your carry-on luggage being left in a different locker, it can't go to any other place anyway and what matter most is the empty row location.

After you take the empty row with the help of luck and quick action, you can the lay down and try to sleep as much as possible, but remember to use and clearly show the safety belt, ie above the coat if you are using one. This is what any Cabin Crew wants to see and is better for your safety too.

[lexxity]

The nazi crew may just be doing their jobs according to CAA standards.

Weight and balance is also an issue sometimes especially on smaller a/c like the ERJ's or a low load 73.

[Globaliser]

I'm sure that it isn't mandatory. This is from the number of times that I, or members of my group, have been re-seated by cabin crew before takeoff - on a good day, even before doors closing if they are pretty confident that the desired seat will remain empty.

The most recent example was from just about a week ago, on BA. To cut a long story short, the third member of our group was separated from us because it was the best seat available on online check-in. But after boarding, it looked like the star seat in the cabin would remain empty (that's the seat that's entirely on its own, which is therefore a window, aisle and exit row seat all at the same time - regular BA pax will know which one I mean). I asked the cabin crew if my friend could move when the doors closed; the reply was that she should move now, which she did.

[TightSlot]

Generally I use the post-takeoff tecnique in presence of Nazi Cabin Crew, how do you recognise such crews is easy, they are the ones that demand to see your boarding pass and not just naming your seat as your board. Those who don't are generally more cooperative and understanding.
UK rules now require Cabin Crew to check all Boarding Cards on Boarding: The part we are actually interested in is the Flight Number/Date rather more than the seat number.

el ! - I'm not sure if English is your first language, so please allow me to clarify some points for you:


In the UK, calling somebody a Nazi is considered to be - "Rude"
In the UK, calling somebody a Nazi when they are simply doing their job correctly, for your benefit and security is considered to be - "Extremely rude".
Points 1 & 2 above usually result in something known as an "Apology".Astral_Flyer - I don't want to attempt to justify how your CC handled the situaion, which doesn't sound very impressive, but may I explain something. Allowing one passenger to move seats may not in itself cause a trim issue, but once one move has been allowed, it becomes progressively more difficult to prevent other customers (who tend to be watching like hawks from behind their newspapers!) from doing the same. Funnily enough, in the past two days, I've had two sectors with 70% loads on 737-800: My usual practise is to make a short PA asking pax to remain in their assigned seats untl after take-off, for reasons of weight & balance. On Tuesday, I had to count passengers in the first 16 rows, andd then move two individuals aft at the Captains' request. This seems a bit over the top, but I was told that it was necessary, and therefore I did it.

[Final 3 Greens]

I had to count passengers in the first 16 rows, andd then move two individuals aft at the Captains' request. This seems a bit over the top, but I was told that it was necessary, and therefore I did it.

This doesn't sound over the top at all, w&b will have been calculated carefully and a 738 has a long lever arm, so shifting 160-200kg some way back could have a significant effect. In one type of light aircraft, I have had to ask a passenger to move forward one seat to stay in w&b.

What was over the top was when an earnest, young and undoubtedly well meaning Lufthansa flight attendant said I could not move from seat C to same row F in a 73 due to w&b. I have to confess that I burst out laughing, which was not entirely appropriate, since she was taking the safest option in applying her obviously limited understanding of the subject - it was the explanation rather than the decision that amused me.

[SXB]

The W&B issue had never ocurred to me but I suppose if you have an aircraft where the first 14 rows are fully occupied and the rear empty (say each passenger weighs 80kg) that's a postive weight of more than 6700kgs in the forward part of the aircraft.

If I want to change seats I normally just ask, if the aircraft is on the ground I've been asked to wait ,a few times, until we are airborne and the seat belt signs turned off. I always assumed that the FA's didn't like people changing seats on the ground because most passengers tend to do it while the aircraft is taxiing and when one gets up and moves a whole load of others do the same. Sometimes the musical chairs exercise is comical, they wait until the FA's back is turned and then there's a mass changing of seats and the newspapers are immediately up again trying to give the impression that nothing has changed....

[el !]

Hi TightSlot, thanks for giving me the opportunity of clarifing myself.
...
el ! - I'm not sure if English is your first language, so please allow me to clarify some points for you:

[LIST=1]
In the UK, calling somebody a Nazi is considered to be - "Rude"
In the UK, calling somebody a Nazi when they are simply doing their job correctly, for your benefit and security is considered to be - "Extremely rude".

I never called anyone a Nazi. I used the word in my post only and wouldn't even dream of calling someone 'nazi' unless s/he really deservers that. You can think that mine was a 'lightheart banter', a term that I've recently learnt from a very British person with which I had a debate on another thread.
Don't know if you Moderators try to apply equal policies across forums on pprune, but if you go reading Cabin Crew and other forums here, you will find that the term is often used to refer to Ground Security Staff, again by by very British and US persons. Never read any Mod intervention on the matter, so I find your quite unnecessary.


Points 1 & 2 above usually result in something known as an "Apology".

Had I insulted someone, in person or on the forum, I would apologize. But I didn't, so I don't think I have to.

[speedbird676]

Personally, as a cabin crew member who checks every single boarding card from every single passenger who comes near our front door, I am insulted by your comments.

[Skipness One Echo]

So when I flew Ryanair (forgive me please, I was going to Prestwick anyway and never again, and I need help I know and I have booked BA to Glasgow for next Saturday, oh wait I'm rambling....) anyway, from Stansted to Prestwick, I presented my driving licence at check (grumbled).
Then not surprisingly had to represent ID at the gate. What did surprise me was being asked AGAIN at the top of the rear steps when I had gone no further than the length of a 737-800.
Did they really believe I had fled across the ramp and swapped places? Is that a DOT guideline because I'm sure they don't check at both ends of an air bridge?

Thanks:ugh:

[speedbird676]

It's just to be certain that we don't get anyone on board who shouldn't be there. Is it really that hard to hold your boarding card in your hand while you walk from the gate to the aircraft?

The worst culprits for getting in a bad mood about being asked to show a boarding card are the businessmen who have put it away in their pocket, knowing full well that we need to see it again. Some of these people fly every couple of days and STILL they kick off about it...

[Getoutofmygalley]

I will tell you what happened on my flight today. Operating as SCCM from London Gatwick to Barcelona, my aircraft was parked on a remote stand over near the north terminal.

Also boarding at around the same time on a remote stand was the London Gatwick to Split (Croatia) flight.

In the South Terminal a boarding call was made for "Passengers flying to Split in Croatia". Two of my Barcelona pax though that the word Croatia was Barcelona, so they presented their boarding cards at what they thought was the relevant coaching gate to their aircraft.

Meanwhile, I am carrying out the headcount for my Barcelona flight and it was 2 pax down. Luckily the SCCM on the Split flight was on the ball when they checked the boarding cards of my two Barcelona pax who had made it all the way to the Split aircraft. My Despatcher told me that my two missing pax were now being bussed from the wrong aircraft to my aircraft.

The moral of the story here is that gate staff can make mistakes, they are only human and if the 'Nazi' cabin crew had not checked the boarding cards correctly, two of my Barcelona pax would have ended up in Croatia, and like Speedbird676 I too find the Nazi comment insulting.

[Final 3 Greens]

Maybe its good to remember that only you can choose to be insulted and someone who thinks that its cool to call crew "nazis" isn't worth worrying about.

As a 100 segment per year traveller, I appreciate your efforts.

[SXB]

Tightslot

Your reply is restraint at it's best ! F3G is probably right in saying such people should be ignored

[PAXboy]

On a lighter note ... On a FRA~DTW with LH, the route was new and not full in Y. I was in an 'A' and, even though the 'C' was empty, there were a four full seats open right across the aisle. That's grand, I thought.

Rotation.
Seat belt signs off.
1 Second later and the guy behind me, shoots across the aisle and almost dives headlong across the four seats. One cotton-pickin' second!!! :*

__________________
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[Avman]

The answer to this is somewhat complex, as it does depend on so many variables. 2 pax changing (pre take-off) from row 25 to 28 on a B747 will have no significant impact. Two pax changing from row 16 to row 2 on an EMB-145 (or similar commuter a/c) will have a significant and potentially serious impact. I am troubled (i.e. worried) when I see cc disregard seat changes on smaller a/c.

[goshdarnit]

Too slow PAXboy! (Showing your age?!)

Best for me was in NBO trying to board a Kenya Airways flight to ADD; it seemed that about 10 flights were boarding simultaneously, with everyone milling around in the same general area, and heading onto the tarmac and to various planes dotted around the place. I am not sure that the ground staff knew where everyone was supposed to go, let alone the pax, so I was very grateful when my boarding card was checked (and I had somehow managed to make the right plane). :O

GDI

[Skipness One Echo]

Yeah OK but identity checked by photo ID at the gate and again under a minute later at the door? That's just too much and unnecessary.

[PAXboy]

goshdarnit :*
How dare you be so close to the truth. The day approaches when I may have to be PAXoldboy. :ouch:

"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[warkman]

I always thought it was to do with when you ploughed into the ground, the AAIB could see how far you had been flung from the aircraft, or identify your charred corpse?

[Middle Seat]

As SLF, my biggest peeve is when someone just decides to take a seat next to the person they're travelling with, and expecting every one else to work around it.

I was returning home from Mexico this year, securely seated in my exit row seat. Two women boarded travelling together, but not seated together. One was in a C seat and the other in the E seat two rows back (on a 737). Chick in C decides to take D next to her friend (in the exit row). On comes party of 4, seated DEF in the row between, and in D where woman has decided to sit with her friend. Chaos ensues as pax from C is trying to reseat everyone so that she can sit next to her friend. Nobody thought to call in the flight attendant. I nearly did.

Pax who reassign themselves (particularly to an exit row seat) and then tell passengers where to sit should be taken to the rear galley exit, shot and their bodies left on the tarmac as a warning to others.

(how's that for a friendly post #100?)

[apaddyinuk]

Generally I use the post-takeoff tecnique in presence of Nazi Cabin Crew, how do you recognise such crews is easy, they are the ones that demand to see your boarding pass and not just naming your seat as your board. Those who don't are generally more cooperative and understanding.

Seeing as you seem to know all and sundry about airtravel then I assume that you are aware that it is not just enough to board an aircraft and announce to the crew member at the door what your seat number is but that you must present your boarding pass in order to get clearance to move further into the cabin because as I am sure you are aware, this is a very important and final security check!!! Crew members must check the flight date ,flight number and final destination, the last thing they care about is the seat number!!!

Some people eh :ugh:

[SXB]

I'm glad they check the boarding passes at the door and gate, I can't say I'd be too happy if it were possible for just anybody to wander onto the aircraft I was travelling on...

[Middle Seat]

and it would suck if they didn't check the boarding cards and you end up in a really disgusting place like DFW.

[striparella]

Lol see i read the original 'nazi post' to mean those crews that demand to see your boarding card when seated to check you are in fact allocated to that seat or if you've done a cheeky move. I could be wrong!!

And i've flown for many a year and didn't find it offensive!

But back to the original topic - i think it's courtesy to wait til the doors are closed - namely as it causes a nightmare on the ground, especially if you're trying to sit a family together and the seats you think you have free have bodies in them

So long as it doesn't effect weight and balance, which after take off it shouldn't, you can sit where you like on my aircraft!!

[Final 3 Greens]

So long as it doesn't effect weight and balance, which after take off it shouldn't, you can sit where you like on my aircraft!!

That-s very nice of you, first class seats are much nicer than economy :}

[phnuff]

As someone he generally has a 'special meal', I always find it an advantage to ask before moving. hat way, your food turns up and ou don't go hungry