Virgin Upper Class

[G SXTY]

I’m planning a trip from London to Antigua, and am trying to decide between BA New Club World & Virgin Upper Class (I know, I know, tough choice).:)

BA are slightly cheaper and their times are more convenient, but I’ve heard very good things about Virgin’s service and am wondering whether to stump up the extra. Would be grateful to hear from anyone with experience of both products, and which they prefer.

[jammydonut]

Waste of money with either...as its not a heavy business user route..its a minimal token of the real thing for honeymooners and flash chavs, generally full of crew....:rolleyes:

[manintheback]

Trying to figure out JDs response....

But

Virgin is consistently better in every department. Better check in, limo service (full price fares), far nicer lounges (breakfast cooked to order last time I used), IFE way better on some(all?) of their planes, sit down bar on board plane, massage and all that.

[apaddyinuk]

Funny reply from JD, Service is the same in Upperclass/ CW on the ANU route as it is on any other route!

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi,

Whilst the UCS seat and meal service is the same from LHR and LGW, the LGW fleet only has 14 suites in the nose and no other area,no inflight beauty therapist area and the bar only has two stools compared to 4/6 on the LHR 747 fleet.

The LGW IFE tends to be Nova ( about 10 tv channels) compared vport (AVOD) or Odessey ( 20 channels) on the LHR 747-400.

Regards

TBS

[AH64 APACHE]

Perhaps you should concentrate on your career instead of flouting your wealth in front of us wannabees!!

Of course BA is the way - whilst they do not have the limo driver they do have un-paralleled flexi-tickets!!

Massages aren't everything!!:)

[Yellow Snow]

Can anyone out there offer any opinions on Virgins upper class service.

Thinking about booking it for our honeymoon in St Lucia next year, but I'm concerned by the lack of personal contact between seats!

[Felix Saddler]

but I'm concerned by the lack of personal contact between seats!

You want to be concerned at the price more than anything mate!!!

However, It is very nice and extremely comfy!! i was lucky enough to travel to orlando in virgins upperclass suite on the top deck of the 747. There is relevant space for two as there is a seat tht is constructed at one end, if you look on the website it will tell you about it. There is one down side to the whole experience, the cost, extremely expensive, one has to ask ones self if 5K return to the states per person is worth it!! nevermind paying for the rest of the holiday!

Your choice mate.

[The late XV105]

I last flew Upper Class LGW-BGI and found it truly superb; hard to imagine what more could have been offered, actually.

BTW - My honeymoon six years ago was also taken using VS, to Antigua, but economy class! Enjoy yours! :-)

[PAXboy]

I am biased, as I try and get to the big seat no matter what the occasion! Also, my honeymoon (many moons ago) did not require a flight as we were going to the Lakes!

At one stage, VS were boasting that the partition between the seats could be lowered. However, that would only apply to the 747-400, which has a seat at each window and a pair in the middle (4-across), whereas the 340 aircraft (being narrower) are only 3-across. Check with VS through their website or call centre. Whilst Premium Economy is good, you do not get as much sleep.

Of course, a good reason to go in Upper is that you can take advantage of the opportunity to gain the maximum amount of sleep before you arrive at your destination ... ;) ;)

[11Fan]

"I'm concerned by the lack of personal contact between seats"

And we went through all of that trouble to put nice big lavatories in the airplane.

[10secondsurvey]

I posted this link;

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/whatsonboard/upperclass/feedback/suiteimprovements.jsp


on a recent thread on beds in planes. Like someone pointed out above, it only applies to certain seats, and as I've not used one recently, I can't say if it still applies. Think it was a trial.

Someone else also pointed out, the partition only gets moved from the top end!

Don't forget, upper class also has a sit down bar in UC, which is nice on long flights, and you can both get an inflight massage, and eat together, if you want/when you want. I always think Virgin is better for these 'fun' things. Hope you have a great time.

[Yellow Snow]

Many thanks for all your replys. Sincere and cheeky;)

The double bed option with the partition removed is a trial on 3 or 4 LHR aircraft not on the caribbean routes out of Gatwick.
Price will be travel industry price so it doesn't sting so bad!

I guess the real question is do I go for BA club flat beds where I know the partition drops or go for the 'better'? product with Virgin but run the risk that it's difficult to hold a concersation with the person sat next to you unless they get up and sit on your ottoman foot stool!

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

I've flown Virgin Upper Class and BA First Class a couple of times each to and from Barbados.
It's the night flight back that's the cruncher and on each and every occasion the Virgin Upper Class flight was pretty horrendous.:= The cabin crew seemed to regard any available space, such as that at emergency exits, as being stash ground for black plastic rubbish bags. The toilets were installed to be used as storage tables for empty trays? The so called clever little 'whenever you like' food was pretty mediocre and seemed to consist of a variety of sandwiches, which ran out in the midnight hours. The cabin crews left something to be desired in their attitudes toward running anything approaching a ship shape aircraft. I am sure that all the Virgin girls had had a lovely time in Barbados but the function of the company is surely not really to act as a holiday carrier for its employees?:eek:
It is some four years since I last flew that route with Virgin but I have no intention of doing so again. Branson's little clever dick marketing does not counter balance the quality of service provided by BA on the same route.
I fear that I am no longer athletic enough to worry too much about climbing over the seats for close counter excercises but I have always found that, were I so inclined, BA provide one with seating facilities which are more conducive to avoiding a hernia with the commensurate cries of agony which might have disturbed my fellow passengers and inhibited the passionate ardour.
The inevitable letter of complaint to Virgin on the worst occasion, produced no response at all, whereas a moan to BA when Condorde was five hours late ex Bridgetown to London produced two First Class round trip tickets.:D

[10secondsurvey]

Cavortingcheetah,

Are you comparing Virgin Upper class with BA First?

As I understand it, the choice here is between BA club and virgin upper (as the two are more comparable in price). The only thing I can add is that if a person is big, then the virgin beds are better for sleeping - I find the BA club seats too short, when flat. But like many people point out, the experience often depends on the crew you get on the day.

[Captb747]

You could see if you could get the 2 seats in the nose of the aeroplane. I have travelled in this seat and my better half in the other. Although the seats are not that close (compared to the middle seats on the LHR aeroplanes) they are closer than the rest and you can still have a decent non shouting conversation.......Reckon thats your best bet..:D

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

Fair point that!
Not fair at all to compare Virgin Upper Class with BA First.
Will still, however, take BA business over Virgin Upper as being less trashy but admit that there is a degree of prejudice in my thought.:suspect:

[Yellow Snow]

Once again many thanks for your comments.

I looked at row 6 A and K in the nose and they do look the best bet on the 747. After reading the reviews on airlinequality.com Virgin gets many bad reviews for upper class, mainly on poor staff attitude, in my experience this has always been a BA bug bear!!

I think Club wins, esecially for Mrs Yellow Snow

[PAXboy]

You can't go wrong with BA Club. Even if you have poor cabin service, the seats are good and you know what you are getting.

When reading web sites with 'customer reviews', bear in mind that people are more likely to 8itch about their one bad trip in 20 years, than the 19 years of good! Unfortunately, variable staff response and behaviour is now standard in all lines of business.

[Yellow Snow]

Hi PAXboy,

I always thought that only those that feel wronged complain but the airline quality website has loads of positive BA reviews!!

The BA seat does seem to tick all the boxes.

[warkman]

There have been a lot of comments on various web sites about the reducing quality of the product and service provided in Virgins Upper Class section, from the removal of small touches like the red satin pillows, flowers on the bar, reduction in choice of drinks, reduction in the choice and quality of the food selection etc, and lately the removal of an acceptable ameinity kit (already reduced from the good ones with the Virgin Vie in them) to basically a cardboard envelope with a minimal amount of products in it (not even a pen).
Looking on the V-Flyer site, a site which normally is very Pro VA, even they seem fed up with the standards being shown today.

There is a breifing from I take it, VA Management on the "Snooze Packs" which to my reading seems to be saying "this is cheaper for us, get used to it UC Pax, we really don't care what you think about these fantastic new enhancements to the service"

http://www.v-flyer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13605&whichpage=15

"It is clear from your comments here that the introduction of the new Snooze Pack is a contentious and emotive issue. During my recent travels, I found that people understand and support the decision once it is fully explained to them. It is clear we could have done a much better job explaining what we are aiming to achieve, which is why I am writing this. I would like to take this opportunity to give you all the facts.

We were finding that passengers frequently left the old kits behind and discarded many of their contents. This was wasteful and not environmentally friendly, but it was also expensive and at odds with our Manifesto goal of driving efficiency and effectiveness. In fact we had lots of negative comments from staff and passengers alike complaining about the waste. We know that only 40% of items in the packs were used.

So we used this information to determine what our passengers really wanted and we put together a kit that only included those items that didn’t get returned. It is also worth mentioning that the reasons people fly Virgin is because of our legendary service: our staff, Clubhouses, limo transfers, the Upper Class Suite, onboard bar, in-flight massage, etc. The amenity kit needs to be seen in this context.

Nevertheless, since the launch we have listened to the feedback from Cabin Crew and passengers and decided on the following changes:

We have decided to include a toothbrush and toothpaste in the kit. Whilst only 40% of passengers used these we are reinstating them to facilitate a speedier service.

We are sourcing a larger wallet to include these items and at the same time we are also addressing the gluing issues that have been encountered with some packs. This will take some time to produce because our amenity kits are sourced in the Far East. So in the meantime, toothbrush, toothpaste and pens are to be offered on a tray. Sufficient numbers of each of these will be loaded so that every passenger will have one.

We already have a range of supplementary items that are available on request but we have decided to upgrade this service. So, we are developing an accessories service, with the help of the Cabin Crew and Inflight Services. We will source a range of better quality items (eg moisturisers, lip balm) that we will offer in addition to the Snooze Pack.

It is important we iron this out because we are not going to reintroduce the old amenity kit. Plus we can benefit from a significant saving of over £1m by eliminating waste, so we need to ask for your continued support with this."

What do you all think? is this good cost effectiveness or another diminution in an already falling service from VA??

[Gpik]

Sorry can you just clarify as to what reductions in drink choices there have been? There has been none in the last four years that I have worked for Virgin Atlantic. In fact there has been an increase as far as I know, Bellinis is one that springs to mind. Also not many airlines offer Mixologists on selected flights, Croupiers on others. As much as I agree that the Amenity Kit situation is dire I still think that the management noticed that they made a mistake and are in the process of trying to find a solution for it. The Red Satin pillow looked lovely but didnt enhance the serice offered onboard, the flower was nice aswell however it wasnt essetially needed and had no effect on the service offered either.

[warkman]

Sorry can you just clarify as to what reductions in drink choices there have been? There has been none in the last four years that I have worked for Virgin Atlantic.

The supplier of the drinks changed this year di they not? and the quality of the avialable drinks has gone down.
I notice no comment about the "Scrooge Packs " though?

[Gpik]

I actually edited the comment to include this. The supplier changed....quality and choice did not go down. If Virgin wanted to get rid of premium passengers they would never have launched the Upper Class Suite. Load factors in this cabin are extremely high and the airline is doing very well.

Drinnks offered in Upper Class. Bellinis, Laurent Perrier Champagne, Tanqueray or Bombay Sapphire Gin, Virgin Fallen Vodka (Smirnoff available), Bacardi, Baileys, 3 White Wines. (currently 2 new world and one old world) 3 Red Wines (2 new world, on old world) Glenmorangie and Dewars whiskies, Numerous soft drinks, fruit juices, Martini, Malibu....the list goes on, 2 choices of lagers (route specific)....i personally think that most peoples tastes are covered there....im sure ive missed a few out aswell

[warkman]

The problem perceived with Virgin is its inconsistancy.
The Scrooge packs are just another symbol of that.

Whilst on some routes out of LHR you get the "full service" IFBT, Mixologists, even a decent IFE. Try flying from LGW or MAN. Man especially, no Clubhouse and if travelling with children, no entrance to the alternate lounge, no revivals, Super Nova IFE. Price of flights not different though..
VS have just provided acces to another airlines Revivals lounge at LGW, but what a choice of products compared to LHR, no cooked brekky for example.

The last time I flew UCS no extra pillows, just that single flat pillow. At least you could raise it with the satin pillow. the toothpaste and brush available in a cup in the washroom, no pen no mints, no moisturiser in the cardboard envelope. No cufflinks
No first choice of wines, not loaded on the aircraft, where was the third choice of appetisers? Gone off the Ex freedom menu, Champagne tased awful compared to BA's, what on earth are those mint chocolates? what has happened to the tasty ones that were on the bar? remember whan the fruit bowl had a choice of fruits not just a choice of two types?
They are all small things, but they add up to a diminution of the product and ut seems that all VS management can say is "well, you have a flat bed and a Clubhouse (though only at certain airports) what more do you want?"
Ask many people who are now flying with alternate airlines, including some of the Charter types such as FCA and the new buisness MAXJET.

[Gpik]

In fairness, some points you mention re the snooze pack are valid, however, the pillow flat? are you havin a laugh? its twice as thick as the one that I use at home to sleep on, the old red pillow would maybe of added about a cm of height onto it. So in my opinion no need. Its all about personal taste I suppose, as regards to the champagne, again this is probably due to personal taste aswell.

Manchester at the moment with 14 J seats a day, 28 on busy days doesnt really justify spending millions of pounds on a Clubhouse. VS are commmited to increasing leisure routes out of MAN and LGW. Maybe when the pax numbers justify a lounge of sorts then Im sure Vs will get one.

Nova entertainment..I agree whilst no where near as good as V-port, still offers passengers a good selection of films and T.V programmes, on routes that If they flew on other airlines they wouldnt get.

Im the first to admit that I may be a bit biased with my comments, I am proud to work for VS and am proud of the product that we offer.

We must be doing something right tho, we continue to gain corporate accounts, continue to have good load factors in J, continue to make profits in a dodgy marketplace. Increasing frequencies on routes where we compete with these all J class operators...NYC up to 6 flights a day. HKG going up to double daily from next year. Cant be doing to badly..

[Buster the Bear]

Flying Virgin Upper Class was total bliss, only bettered by hiring oneself an executive jet, sadly out of my price range the biz jet!

[Yellow Snow]

Warkman and Gpik,

some good structured debate:D not often seen PPrune without handbags:zzz:

Can I just steer the topic back to the original question?
Is upper class designed too much for the business traveller who may want seclusion in their pods or, should I book, will my new wife and I be pleasently surprised?

Personally I'm quite happy to sit at the bar the whole flight:) However my other half is a moderately nervous flyer so she likes to hold hands during take-off and landing. I can't see from the pictures and plan diagrams how this will be possible

[Gpik]

Sorry Yellowsnow, the thread was started as a seperate thread by warkman, the moderators merged it with this one.

Essentially the Upper Class Suite was designed for the business traveller, Virgin were losing thousands due to the poorly designed J2000 seat.

The J cabin on our flights to St Lucia is really nice, small and intimate. There is only 14J seats. The closest seats together in this cabin that I would recommend would be 6A and 6K. These seats are right up at the nose of the aircraft therefor you and your wife could sit accross from each other. You are looked after by one Senior Crew member and a Cabin Services Supervisor. Plus one crew member preparing the meals so 3 crew for 14 passengers.

The biggest downside with the UCS is that sadly it is uncomfortable to sit and hold hands with your partner.

During the flight the ottoman which doubles as a foot rest for the passenger can be used to have your meal together , enjoy a glass of wine, or just to sit and have a chat with each other, its a great part of our suite and one that I know our passengers enjoy...because they tell me themselves.

Best of luck with your decision making. :}

[10secondsurvey]

It's interesting to see the comments about the snooze pack. I hadn't seen one ,but it struck me when I read about it that it was the ultimate in cheapness.

People have rightly commented that it effectively cheapens the product. It's like a hotelier saying that most people don't notice the wallpaper, so they will just get some nasty cheap woodchip from the local DIY megastore next time. People probably didn't pay much heed to the amenity kits, but guess what, they noticed when they didn't get one (even if they never used it), and got a paper envelope instead!!

I am always truly astonished that when a company comes up with a winning formula, the very next thing they do is try to destroy it. Maybe some aspects of the upper class experience were superfluous in purely functional terms, but it added to the classiness and ambience. Personally the spin from Virgin on this subject is nothing short of boll*cks - do they think their passengers are so dumb as to swallow that guff?

I like Virgin, but these types of changes worry me, especially when the management seem not to listen to their fare paying UC pax.

[Leclairage]

Inconsistency of product has always been a problem for Virgin.
The A340-600 is a nightmare, an enormous cabin of serried ranks of seats, inadequate galleys and (often) grumpy crews. Who can blame them?
Their fortunate colleagues in 744 pamper happy SLF in splendid surroundings.

Sir Richard promises so much, and yet is so often so very disappointing.

I have had wonderful flights with Virgin, and Absolute ****e flights with Virgin. The pity is, as one boards (or perhaps more importantly, books), that one simply doesent know which one is in for.

[22/04]

Just flown VS in economy LHR-JNB-LHR and got a pen- are they not doing this in UC? I'll find out travelling UC to India in October.

What makes VS is the cabin crew. Whatever class you're flying they just do their best and it's so much better than anyone I've flown with! They will do their very best to do what they can fpr you.

[PAXboy]

warkman, I was starting to agree with you but No cufflinks lost me. What are you looking for from an airline? No, I do not work for them but am a satisfied customer across 20 years. Of late, I have not travelled them as my job changed. I am planning a trip to South Africa in October and expect to be on VS, either PE or UC and paying on my own account.

[TBirdFrank]

Hmmm

Virgin cheapening the product - that sounds familiar.

I use their rail product - first class - well that's what they call it, but it ain't what it used to be, so the comments about the management style upstairs indicates that the entire company runs on the "look its shiny and new" mantra rather than " but don't look too closely because you will find its also rather cheap and tacky"

What do I mean -

The end of decent meal service.

The introduction of new trains which are not in the same leagues as those they replaced - less spacious, smaller overall profile and fitted out with uncomfortable hard seats.

Toilets that do all sorts of interesting things, like refusing to let patrons in - but once you are in will sometimes open their doors to visitors!

Lovely latrine smells right through the entire train

But don't worry - the staff have lovely red uniforms and Tricky Dicky pops up everywhere on publicity so the troops think he's wonderful.

[Groundloop]

Don't PAX look out the window anymore? Almost impossible in Upper Class!

[warkman]

warkman, I was starting to agree with you but lost me. What are you looking for from an airline? No, I do not work for them but am a satisfied customer across 20 years. Of late, I have not travelled them as my job changed. I am planning a trip to South Africa in October and expect to be on VS, either PE or UC and paying on my own account.

What I expect from a £1,500-£5,000 ticket is at least as good as if not better than the so called Charter airlines. I expect to get as much as similar airlines to the one I am flying.
What I do not expect to get is an ameinity pack for example, that is worse than the one supplied to the Economy passengers. At least they still get a pen and a toothbrush and toothpaste.

I don't expect every time I fly with them to be wondering what next has been removed from the buisness ticket package.
And yes, most of my flights I pay for myself, not paid for by my company.

[warkman]

Just flown VS in economy LHR-JNB-LHR and got a pen- are they not doing this in UC? I'll find out travelling UC to India in October.
What makes VS is the cabin crew. Whatever class you're flying they just do their best and it's so much better than anyone I've flown with! They will do their very best to do what they can fpr you.

No, you have to ask and hope they have been loaded. the toothbrush and toothpaste are in cups in the toilet, a toilet which whilst supposidly for UC pax only, seems to be available to all passengers. Rather like the Clubhouse these days. Fly with VH and you can obtain access to the clubhouse for something like £35.

I have found on east to west flights the Cc are superb, if they have a full compliment, but these days the Senior member does not come up and welcome you by name any more as they used to do, in fact many times, they are too busy filling in somewhere else on the plane I think, due to less crew now being on board?

On west to esat the attitude of the crew is not as good as it used to be. This and I am sure will either be agreed by VS staff on here or not, is due to the demands of the job these days and the short time available in the USA between flights.

[warkman]

In fairness, some points you mention re the snooze pack are valid, however, the pillow flat? are you havin a laugh? its twice as thick as the one that I use at home to sleep on, the old red pillow would maybe of added about a cm of height onto it. So in my opinion no need. Its all about personal taste I suppose, as regards to the champagne, again this is probably due to personal taste aswell.

Manchester at the moment with 14 J seats a day, 28 on busy days doesnt really justify spending millions of pounds on a Clubhouse. VS are commmited to increasing leisure routes out of MAN and LGW. Maybe when the pax numbers justify a lounge of sorts then Im sure Vs will get one.

Nova entertainment..I agree whilst no where near as good as V-port, still offers passengers a good selection of films and T.V programmes, on routes that If they flew on other airlines they wouldnt get.

Im the first to admit that I may be a bit biased with my comments, I am proud to work for VS and am proud of the product that we offer.

We must be doing something right tho, we continue to gain corporate accounts, continue to have good load factors in J, continue to make profits in a dodgy marketplace. Increasing frequencies on routes where we compete with these all J class operators...NYC up to 6 flights a day. HKG going up to double daily from next year. Cant be doing to badly..

GPik, its my understanding form the news that ALL scheduled airlines have seen an increase in pax loads. Hasn't AA juts said their loads have increased to 87%?

the Nova IFE whilst being more err "Stable" than V-Port has been overthaken by most of the transatlantic airlines and most of them are also introducing flat beds these days.
last time I was on board, my IFE would not stay where you put it, just kept floating around, the cover was coming off and was showing sever signs of wear as did the whole UCS. At least my UCS worked, poor CC having to struggle with two other seats to get them to work. Good job the skirts are as long as they are the contortions the CC were having to get into to get the seat to work! :p
Even you will accept that quite a few passengers in J complain about the quality of the food served by VS compared to BA, AA, CO and many others.

[PAXboy]

Well, I agree with VS about reducing the amenity pack. Periodically I turf out the collected items from such packs that I have never used! When my nephews and neice were small, I used to give them the packs but my eldest nephew is now driving 744s himself so I don't need more pens and junk.

[warkman]

Well, I agree with VS about reducing the amenity pack. Periodically I turf out the collected items from such packs that I have never used! When my nephews and neice were small, I used to give them the packs but my eldest nephew is now driving 744s himself so I don't need more pens and junk.


you like me will have seen a steady reduction in the quality of these packs from the old Virgin Vie, almost as good as the BA G, through the OB kits to a cardboard sleeve.

those of us who fly a lot may not always take the kits but what about those who fly once a year, this is there first VS flight in "Buisness/First" and they are given a kit which looks worse than the kit they get in Economy? It maight have taken them a long time to save up and expect the bells and whistles.

[Gpik]

To be honest with you, I very rarely hear complaints onboard, maybe Im lucky, maybe Im good at my job and create a good rapor with the pax so they dont feel the need to complain. Tho to be honest Im gaging no matter what we were to do for you Warkman Im thinkin its within your personality to maybe find a wee fault somewhere always? :oh: hehe just playing. Nova on routes from LGW to the Carribbean is as good or better than any other airlines on these routes, diff story if we operated those aircraft out of LHR I agree, but hey, we dont. The Amenity kit is dire, company have realised that and are meeting with crew and speaking to U/C gold card holders about it.


You said about the loads in other airlines going up aswell...Did you see our J loads when we had the J2000 seat? Trust me we have had to win back alot of customers from that seat.

I dont understand some other of your comments, firstly the drink one originally threw me, but what throws me even more now is the reduction in crew. Nah! Never been a reduction in crew. 1 FSM, 2 CSS`s, 5 SCC (744 lhr), 2 SCC (744 lgw), 4 SCC (A343), 5 SCC (A346) + alll the CC in W and Y.

At the end of the day, we are an airline of a small size competing with alot of huge airlines out there, I for one feel we are doing a good job, offer fantastic service, in a fun nature, its not everyones cup of tea, but then they choose to fly with other airlines, thats the way life is, its about choice. I really hope that you dont just use Pprune to show your grievances , write to VS, e-mail, hell pvt me a message and ill take it in to head office. They will take it onboard.

Maybe ill see you onboard one day :{ . God help us! HA! :D :ok:

[10secondsurvey]

Warkman has above raised a good point regarding load factors. Many airlines right now are seeing increases, and I think it is important that individual airline managers do not start assuming that this means reductions in service quality ('product enhancements'??) are popular with pax.

For instance, it has been pointed out above, that Virgin must be doing something right as they are winning new pax/corporate accounts and load factors are increasing, but rather than Virgin thinking "well we're ok, no need to listen to pax or make any effort", rather Virgin should be trying to capitalise on this expansion in demand across all airlines, in order to take greater market share from the competition.

There are rather a lot of disgruntled BA premium pax out there, and Virgin should really be upping it's game to get them, and keep them.

[Yellow Snow]

Gpik,

thanks for your comments re the UC cabin.

I'll show this tread and the cabin diagrams from other websites to my fiancee.

I must admit my heart says book Virgin, as there are so many positives on offer.

I hope we get cabin crew with your attitude as you sound like you really care about your job and doing the best you can.:ok:

[Gpik]

Thanks Yellowsnow, well if you do decide on VS then send me a pvt message, if it fits in with my roster I can always try and get on the flight. Cheers for now.

[warkman]

To be honest with you, I very rarely hear complaints onboard, maybe Im lucky, maybe Im good at my job and create a good rapor with the pax so they dont feel the need to complain. Tho to be honest Im gaging no matter what we were to do for you Warkman Im thinkin its within your personality to maybe find a wee fault somewhere always? :oh: hehe just playing. Nova on routes from LGW to the Carribbean is as good or better than any other airlines on these routes, diff story if we operated those aircraft out of LHR I agree, but hey, we dont. The Amenity kit is dire, company have realised that and are meeting with crew and speaking to U/C gold card holders about it.

Yes, I have had my conversation and a form sent back on this matter.
I am not a picky pax, just not happy about what I perceive as a diminution of the service over the past few years. It seems that UC went up with the introduction of the Suites (Yes, J2000, same guy behind these as the new "scrooge packs" by any chance?? :} ) but since then its all been removals not enhancements (for UC, certainly the new PE seats will be good)
I even stayed loyal when the food went REALLY dire! but VS have to pick up their game again.
I don't do carribean, I do do (Duvets?) the USA and in that market VS are now being squeezed on price and quality of service.


You said about the loads in other airlines going up aswell...Did you see our J loads when we had the J2000 seat? Trust me we have had to win back alot of customers from that seat.

As above dire, the old Recardo seat was better than the J2000

I dont understand some other of your comments, firstly the drink one originally threw me, but what throws me even more now is the reduction in crew. Nah! Never been a reduction in crew. 1 FSM, 2 CSS`s, 5 SCC (744 lhr), 2 SCC (744 lgw), 4 SCC (A343), 5 SCC (A346) + alll the CC in W and Y.

that's what the FA and FSM's tell me on my trips from LGW, with the FSM having to fill in for missing FA's. Plus the no time in the uS returns for them are making them very tired on return flights.

At the end of the day, we are an airline of a small size competing with alot of huge airlines out there, I for one feel we are doing a good job, offer fantastic service, in a fun nature, its not everyones cup of tea, but then they choose to fly with other airlines, thats the way life is, its about choice. I really hope that you dont just use Pprune to show your grievances , write to VS, e-mail, hell pvt me a message and ill take it in to head office. They will take it onboard.

as said above already in contact with Gold services about the changes. I gather I am not the only one.

Maybe ill see you onboard one day :{ . God help us! HA! :D :ok:

Not if you are wearing your rose coloured specs! ROLFLMAO!

If you do the LGW-MCO routes we could have already met :eek:

I will give you an update on a MAXJET flight I am taking next month.

[strake]

Reading some of the above comments, I think Virgin need to be careful.

Over the past few years, Virgin have made a concerted effort to "harvest" premium passengers for their routes and have been very successful by providing an excellent product. I am one of their "harvestees". I run a division of a FTSE100 company that did a corporate deal with Virgin in 2003 that made UC travel very attractive. I travel about 15 returns a year and I have 15 colleagues who do the same. In the wider corporation, there are another 1000 people who fly regularly. However, we all have a choice..it is not mandated that we use Virgin.

I think it is perfectly appropriate for Virgin to look carefully at their costs and put pressure on suppliers to do the same. I also think it is appropriate for Virgin to increase the price of the ticket from time to time. What is not appropriate is for them to reduce the product. I promise you, if they do that, even by the smallest amount, people will walk. Virgin can put forward any argument they like about how it's not really different or how it makes sense but if I or people like me don't like it, they will vote with their feet..just like we did with BA...and they could afford to lose pax. The customer is not always right, but the customer is King.

Drive in check-in changing, reduced amenities all seem small but it's my £3000and I'll spend it with whom I want.

I'm off now, to take the VS flight to JFK:)

[warkman]

I'm off now, to take the VS flight to JFK:)

Strake,
Please do post on your return what you think about the Snooze packs :ok:

[surely not]

Crikey I cannot believe that 'snooze packs' are such a big issue!!
The new seats are excellent, way better than the J2000, sitting at the bar is far nicer than staying in the seat, masseurs to ease muscles on the flight, smart and usually cheerful cabin crew, a young aircraft fleet, good schedules, better than average IFE entertainment, and on the flights I have used the food has been very acceptable. On time performance is not too shabby either, though there will be people out there with horror stories I'm sure because all airlines suffer them.

BA are more predictable, and suit a certain type of passenger. The stilted and more formal approach of their crew is not for me, I like crew who don't just flash the cabin crew smile then return to frostiness. It is much more sterile environment in my opinion.

People should beware the websites where pax report on flights as often they are written by people with an axe to grind, either pro or anti, and in some cases I doubt whether the person actually flew with the airline they are writing about or are a competitor trying to damage them. Dirty tricks........surely not :E

[warkman]

Crikey I cannot believe that 'snooze packs' are such a big issue!!

Of course trhey are going to be a big issue its a diminution onn the service provided!
The new seats are excellent, way better than the J2000,

yes, tehy are better thana J2000 but are they better than BA's? many people complain they are hard

sitting at the bar is far nicer than staying in the seat, masseurs to ease muscles on the flight, ,
The bar has less drink available than before, the IFBT is ONLY available on LHR flights,m NOT LGE or MAN flights and have you trieds to sleep when the drunks are sitting at the bar on west to east flights talking loud???

smart and usually cheerful cabin crew, a young aircraft fleet, good schedules, better than average IFE entertainment, ,

they are only cheerful on the east to west flights, on the way from west to east they are the most surley group who want you asleep or out of their hair ASAP. Young aircraft?? not that young Average IFE out of LGW and MAN, no better than charter airlines

and on the flights I have used the food has been very acceptable. ,


Don't get out much or fly much then eh?? :)

On time performance is not too shabby either, though there will be people out there with horror stories I'm sure because all airlines suffer them,
They have the worst performace than any other airline

BA are more predictable, and suit a certain type of passenger. The stilted and more formal approach of their crew is not for me, I like crew who don't just flash the cabin crew smile then return to frostiness. It is much more sterile environment in my opinion,
Better sterile but good service than Virgin cutting back on the service all the time! Though I am not enamoured by BA's service either.

People should beware the websites where pax report on flights as often they are written by people with an axe to grind, either pro or anti, and in some cases I doubt whether the person actually flew with the airline they are writing about or are a competitor trying to damage them. Dirty tricks........surely not :E

Yes, nasty passengers! how dare they attack the excellent service of Virgin! they all are competitors or people with an axe to grind, cannot be the disgracefull service of Virgin. And that nasty pro Virgin website V-Flyer, taken over by the enemy, why else would the pro Virgin posters there attack such a winderful service as cardbaord ameinity packs, diminution of the quality of UC service.
Could not be that even they, the most pro Virgin people around have actually had enough of the reduction is service being provided by the bean counters at Virgin accounting????:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[strake]

Hmm..amenity packs have all become a bit relative now. Given I flew to JFK yesterday, the mind is slightly concentrated on "what if" kind of questions.
I travelled up to Boston this morning and am due to fly back on VS12 tonight..as 11 hasn't left LHR yet, I feel I am in for a bit of a wait....

I don't know, all this and now no shaving cream or toothpaste..what is the world coming to? :)

[surely not]

Warkman you are a very silly person...............
Of course trhey are going to be a big issue its a diminution onn the service provided!
Judging by your typing on this a few snifters had been had before responding?
The bar has less drink available than before, the IFBT is ONLY available on LHR flights,m NOT LGE or MAN flights and have you trieds to sleep when the drunks are sitting at the bar on west to east flights talking loud???
So on the one hand you are complaining people are awake when you want to sleep.........but then
they are only cheerful on the east to west flights, on the way from west to east they are the most surley group who want you asleep or out of their hair ASAP.
so they are trying to make it possible for you to sleep and you complain. Grumpy old git you are :) Haven't a clue what is meant by surley? Did you mean surly, in which case I would disagree with you. Must be the way you treat them that p!sses them off so, I haven't had any probs with them getting surly, or indeed with BA crew getting surly.
Don't get out much or fly much then eh??
Well without wishing to get into a competition, I fly quite a lot and on a variety of routes with a variety of airlines and I have been offered far less acceptable food than VS offers
They have the worst performace than any other airline
That cannot be based on anything other than petty prejudice as they are not bottom of the delay tables for LHR or LGW. At least have the decency to rubbish me with true statements.
My remarks re the accuracy of some of the pax websites is not to say that the pax are nasty, or that VS are above critiscism, it is to point out that the person writing the review doesn't actually need to have travelled at all!! I know someone working for an airline who when he checked out one of the complaints found that none of the details were remotely correct. So don't believe all you read is factual.

[warkman]

so, not many people are unhappy with "New" Virgin UC??

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11250-2314257_1,00.html

[hpcock]

I have flown VS Upper Class 3 times this year, & only on one occasion was I impressed.

The VS crew are really awful - no attention to the finer details towards their premium passenger. I have always claimed that VS are just a glorified charter airline.

The seat on both the A340-600 & 744 are truly uncomfortable, and offer much less space when compared to other airlines offering similar service for roughly the same price.

Within the last 12 months, I have also travelled with SQ & BA, 1st and business at least 10-15 times. Never a problem with either carrier. Service is so much slicker and promt. When i'm spending near GBP4000 per ticket, I expect a lot more than what I get when I fly with VS - which usually equates to a very unfriendly flight.

To answer the qu at the top of this thread, don't waste your money mate - fly with BA or someone else & save yourself a lot of hassle.

[daz211]

flown BA and VS first class not happy at all
I now ask office to use new stansted airlines eos and maxjet for JFK
you should try em it was out of this world however maxjet should get better on time arrivals when their new aircraft come early next year

[Leclairage]

I have had some of the best, and some of the worst flights I ever experienced with Virgin.
This has nothing to do with what is in the amenity kit, or however well the bar may be stocked.
It is simply down to the incredible variation in cabin service - some really happy that you are there, others downright surly and rude.
Until Branson and his management team address this, then the airline will be no more than an also-ran.
A great pity, as I have always been a strong brand-evangelist of Virgin.

[warkman]

Interesting.
I had a telephone call on Thursday from a girl in SRB's office about the email I had sent regarding the reduction in the service levels.
It seems they have had a lot of complaints recently and they are all being passed onto the head of procurement.
Even she admitted that the ameinity packs had gone down from the original Virgin Vie packs to the carboard envelope of today.
the corporate line is that they are investigating the extra items for the snooze packs, so its still carrying on.
She also mentioned that they all read V-Flyer, i did ask if they read PPRunE as well and she said yes :-)

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

I've been commuting on VS in UC for the past 6 years. Got the Gold Card, the whole nine yards. Sadly the in-flight service, on board amenities and telephone support have definitely deteriorated over the past year.

I called the "Premier Service Team" number to change a booking and was put through to an Indian call centre. Nothing wrong in that, except it means Tricky Dicky's bean counters are doing what Dyson, Dell and others have done; cut costs at the expense of good service. I was held for 18 minutes while the lady checked with her supervisor whether I could change the date, then another 11 minutes while she got shown how to do it !!

[Flightmech]

I flew LHR-DXB-LHR Upper Class last week for the first time. A 340-600 on the way out and a -300 on the way home. I loved it, especially where the seat is certified to be fully reclined for take-off and landing (but not in bed mode!). Service great, food great, and the lounge clubhouse and limo pick-up from home are something else:ok:

[chejus]

Hello. I just flew LHR-DXB in Virgin´s upper class.
I am used to flying in economy and sometimes in the old C class of LH and AF.

What a flight! Gee, I´m shocked.
First, the Club House at LHR. I arrived from Paris at 1PM and my flight left at 8.30PM approx, so I had a loooooooot of time there. I was shocked to see such a lounge. Space to do whatever you want, relax, take an incredible shower, use the jacuzzi, even get tanned and use the sauna!! You can choose to have a free treatment (haircut, feet massage, back massage, etc..etc.). The bar is free...the food is delicious. Internet is also free...they have a very nice terrace (it was a little bit chilly... - 3°C) but with a nice view. ...I mean. ..to me, the Club was truly amazing. The people working there were ALL extremely educated and corteus.

Then, I boarded the 346. Seat 2K. First: shocked to see a bar in there. Then: the layout of the seats is so strange. They are angled 45° facing the aisle and the configuration is 1-1-1. The seat is comfortable and the bed is also nice although a bit short for a guy my height: 1,87m. A bed....You get a Duvet and a pillow..I was even given pajamas!!. I had never seen a flatbed in a flight! The entertainment system is also fantastic and the map is the best I have seen on board. I was like a little kid with a new toy. And the staff were all sooo amazing. Coming from LH where they almost shout at you..specially in economy and also in business...the service was amazing. Everyone had a smile...I mean...it was a great experience. And you can choose what you want for breakfast, different cereals, french toast, preserves, panckakes, orange juice...like a hotel!
And they even have Expresso coffee in the plane...
Kudos to Virgin Atlantic..at a very reasonable price USD 2000.- round ticket (purchased at expedia.com). I just hope they would fly to Argentina!!! I believe I won´t be able to do much flying with them because of the routes they have. :ok:It was a wonderful experience.

[High as a Kite]

Hi chejus,

Where you on the VS400 which departed on January 27th? I'm only asking because I was on that particular flight.

[strake]

I'm pleased you enjoyed your experience.
Most Upper Class flights are like this however, over the period of a year (approx one per month) of flying with them, I have been disappointed on a few occassions.
The Virgin experience IS different..I expect it to be more friendly and relaxed than some other carriers however, sometimes the crew need to understand that for £2500-£4000 a pop, they are there for our happiness and contentment and not the orher way round. I know this may sound a bit stuffy but I (and it is "I" because it's my company) don't pay to listen to numerous "happy-clappy" PA's, nor do I want to overhear the shrieks and jokes from the galley about last nights fun and games in the hotel.
When I travel short-haul to Europe, PA's/Briefings are over in 5 minutes. My last flight to Boston had a male Irish cabin manager who just would not stop talking..on and on about routes and the films and Boston. We then had a video of Sir Richard welcoming us aboard, a video about the entertainment system and then,amazingly, a 20 minute fear of flying program made by some of the pilots. An hour later we could watch some films..
Welcome, safety brief 10mins max. Then entertainment, food/drink, pleasant service. Lovely.

[Beermonster-au]

I have just flown Upper Class for the first time, and those seats are truly horrible. I am one of those who loves to look out of the window whenever possible, and with the 45 degree arrangement, that is virtually impossible.

The reading light to me seems to be an unnecessary hazard, its in just the right position to clonk you in the temple if the driver needs to slam on the brakes during take-off

That pop-out drink shelf just below the lamp could have been designed to ensure that if you do manage to knock over your coffee (easy to do), it will finish up in your ear.

I also found the bed to be pretty uncomfortable, but thats probably just me.

Perhaps the above views are a tad jaundiced, my last flight was in Raffles Class on the 380, now thats how business class should be!

[strake]

You see, even after two years, here I am ready to reply....:8

As it happens, I am flying back to blighty from LAX with VS this afternoon. Some of your points about the seat are very valid. Unkindly, I've often thought they look like a bunch (or whatever the collective noun is) of urinals. The product was interesting when it was launched but perhaps now is a little tired. However, by far the greatest change since my post of two years ago is the reduction in service level around the dreaded washbags, in-flight beauty therapists, menus and wine-lists. Everything, in fact, that goes towards making a premium cabin premium. I fly them because we get a very good coporate deal, otherwise I might be tempted to look around.

As VS do not fly to Brazil, I am going with BA next week who have a little promo on where you fly out J and back F. Actually, I think you can still get a normal J return but what the heck, it's a good excuse to see how BA are getting on with First after a few years since last experiencing it.

[22/04]

Many of your points are valid; the light is poorly positioned and don't start me about the IFE headset plug positons; but I've never had a problem with the bed or generally CC so long as you like a fairly informal slightly confident style. So I still fly them.

VS will need to do something in the next two years though; the UCS is begining to look tired.

Lured to BA club world by their two for one offer run over a recent bank holiday for my nest trip- I'll see how they comapre.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

I'm now a retired B747 flight engineer, but having travelled either as a company passenger, or a full fair paying passenger, if there is one thing that I wholly detest about flying it's the full-on blah blah blah over the PA. Some cabin crew, or indeed some flight crew, appear to believe that they are the next 'Airline Crew Have Got Talent' and are God's gift to airborne DJs!

If I'm a company passenger... well, I have to accept it. However, as a fair paying pasenger... grrrrrrrrr; it gets on my t**s!

If turbulence is expected up ahead on the route the pilots quite rightly put the seatbelt signs ON; possibly followed by an explanation as to why they have done so. But then, we have to hear it all over again from the cabin crew! All of this despite the PA announcement from when the seatbelt signs have gone OFF... "Please, when not moving around the cabin, keep your seatbelt loosely fastened in order that the cabin crew don't have to disturb you if and when the signs have to be switched ON again." It would appear that it's mandatory for all of the 'Muppet passengers' to unbuckle their seatbelts just because the signs have gone OFF! Why? The reason is quite simple... 'Muppet passengers', who seem to think that there is a distinct difference between an aeroplane and a car! Why would you remove your seatbelt in a car? Same deal in an aeroplane... the ride sometimes gets rough!

I'm sooooo pleased that I'm now retired, because I no longer have to be polite to those passengers who don't have an ounce of understanding. Nor do I have any patience for those 'frequent flyers' who totally ignore cabin safety briefings; they like to give everyone else the impression that they 'know everything'; cos they're frequent flyers; the Telegraph Crossword is more important! So, because of the 'crassness' of these 'know-all' people, the crew have to go to the extremes of repeating every single instruction... so, I guess I'm venting my spleen not at the airline crew, but at YOU... the so-called 'veteran traveller'.

Except for the odd occasion, I choose not to fly... why? Well, if it's a Bank Holiday weekend I'd rather stay at home than queue for hours at an airport check-in. Shell Suits and smelly trainers... no thank you! Actually, I'd like to watch the Shell Suit wearer throw him/herself down the escape chute... ouch! That lovely nylon fabric melting against the buttox due to the friction of the escape slide; despite a successful emergency egress... off to hospital with severe burns to the arse!

Frequent flyers huh?

TCF

[Avman]

TCF, but why, being retired, would you want to travel on a Bank Holiday weekend in the first place. The joy of being retired is that you can choose to travel off-peak and experience the minimum of hassle.

[Mannix]

My wife and I have happily been loyal to Virgin Atlantic with upwards of 250 transatlantic flights, mainly in Premium Economy. Shortly we fly LHR-MIA return in Upper Class, A340-600 out and 747-400 back. We are looking forward to it but have not had a good start!

Special occasion, so booked well in advance when virtually no seats were allocated. Upon advice from the Flying Club booked seats 2A and 3A outbound.

Yesterday, providing API, I was shocked to find my wife was still in 3A but I had been kicked out or 2A and moved to 9A, well away from her! Of course I know all seat allocations are subject to operational factors etc. etc., but if they needed to move me they could at least of told me and, if they cared at all, they could have kept my wife and I together.

Do not imagine there is any shortage of seats. Today there are still 23 unallocated seats available for reservation in Upper Class on the flight. Naturally I have ensured we are together, 9A and 10A, unless they decide to seperate us again, but the whole incident leaves a nasty taste and confirms we really are nothing more than SLF to Virgin Atlantic.